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Templar class needs help bad, balance fix.
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Ravinsild✭✭✭✭Alpha_Protocol wrote: »"What we have here is a failure to min-maximucate!"
Stop that.
This doesn't seem relevant to anything in the thread or contribute to the discussion on the problems and current power level of the Templar class.0 -
Saltypretzels✭✭✭✭Alpha_Protocol wrote: »"What we have here is a failure to min-maximucate!"
Stop that.
This doesn't seem relevant to anything in the thread or contribute to the discussion on the problems and current power level of the Templar class.
I disagree. It gets to the heart of the issue being discussed here. Some people are saying "Templars aren't broken, you just have to do the exact same thing that I am doing", while others are saying, "Yes, they are broken, because they don't support a variety of builds."
Min-maxers are in the first camp, RPers and those with a preferred play style in the second. And since the game was promoted and marketed to us as a "play what you want" type of game, then I have to side with the group that says the templar is indeed broken.0 -
Crescent✭✭✭✭utzpretzels wrote: »Alpha_Protocol wrote: »"What we have here is a failure to min-maximucate!"
Stop that.
This doesn't seem relevant to anything in the thread or contribute to the discussion on the problems and current power level of the Templar class.
I disagree. It gets to the heart of the issue being discussed here. Some people are saying "Templars aren't broken, you just have to do the exact same thing that I am doing", while others are saying, "Yes, they are broken, because they don't support a variety of builds."
Min-maxers are in the first camp, RPers and those with a preferred play style in the second. And since the game was promoted and marketed to us as a "play what you want" type of game, then I have to side with the group that says the templar is indeed broken.
Which is why your whine is so laughable, because the lack of build variety goes for any class that is not a DK. Try playing a melee sorc, let alone a 2H light armor battlemage sorc and see how well that goes in vet ranks.
Templars have really, really strong class skills. I'll trade you lightning flood for biting jab, any time any day. Take bolt escape it doesn't help me as a melee sorc any way I'll take your blazing shield tyvm.
The problem is that vet rank mobs kill build variety, because the mobs do such an obscene amount of damage and their HP is scaled up, that it forces people either to have high aoe damage to dispatch them quickly before they gib you, or to have high enough selfhealing and mitigation to outlast them. Hybrid builds die really quick in vet content, and melee builds that are not Templar or DK have no AoE outside destro staff so it's really easy to get overwhelmed by the packs of mobs.
What they need to do is nerf the *** damage some of these packs of mobs do and you'll see the old builds popping back up.0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rushed ceremony=broken in PvP(rarely heals you) and both its morphs are broken, HtD doesnt regenerate your magicka and the other one doesnt crit.
Mending(passive)=works only with Rushed ceremony and its morphs.
blinding light=useless and high magicka cost.
biting jabs=good for PvE, but no auto-target, making easy to miss the target.
Sun Shield=tried many times, its useless and has a high cost.
Toppling charge=the animation takes too long to finish, making you waste 80% of the stun time and you cant use it if theres an object in front of you(the animation may get stuck if you try that)
Restoring Aura=softcaps makes it useless.
Rune Focus=only good for casters.
And we dont have any magicka management passive.Edited by tplink3r1 on May 9, 2014 6:06PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No one wants to read a novel you posted in A THREAD ABOUT OVERALL CLASS POWER when you say yourself you chose your skills on a RP concept. Your 'Templar is weak because I can't play mine as a vampire hunter build' logic is flawed. You say yourself that you tried a more magic build and it did not work because you were out of mana.... So wear light armor. It's as simple as that.
Everything I said relates directly to class power. Since you appear to be dense, allow me to melt down my point into a soundbite you can easily digest:
"The class should not be so underdeveloped and weak that I need to change my entire playstyle to make it viable, relying on only one or two builds that function properly."
It ties directly into class power: Using the Templar "chassis" to carry the Two-Handed Weapon and Heavy Armour build is futile, because the chassis cannot support the weight of those skill lines and breaks down.
This is a bad thing. The Templar chassis should be powerful enough to support and carry any desired playstyle to achieve success at all levels of play.
There should not be one supreme build for any class that is the one tried and true way to succeed and all others are unviable.
I am tired of playing World of Warcraft. I don't like "Well sorry only Fire spec for mages is worth a damn right now...you can't play Frost. Need to respec or gtfo".
No, I don't want to play Fire. I want to play Frost.
This game has the promise of play the way you want. I want to play the way I chose and to see it be successful, I'm tired of the "Beast mastery got nerfed, guess I have to play survival now to be relevant..." cycle.
People are clinging to this 'play the way you want' catchphrase way too much.
A video game where you could literally pick any 12 skills at random and throw them on your bar and succeed would be way too easy for a vast majority of people. Developers can't cater their games to the worst player/build (you) because it will be way too easy for everyone else. No challenge = bad game = failed game.
Do I think Templars need a buff? Can't say for sure but maybe so with the amount of tears on the forum. Do I think people who are intentionally running sub par builds have any say in class balancing. No effing way.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭No one wants to read a novel you posted in A THREAD ABOUT OVERALL CLASS POWER when you say yourself you chose your skills on a RP concept. Your 'Templar is weak because I can't play mine as a vampire hunter build' logic is flawed. You say yourself that you tried a more magic build and it did not work because you were out of mana.... So wear light armor. It's as simple as that.
Everything I said relates directly to class power. Since you appear to be dense, allow me to melt down my point into a soundbite you can easily digest:
"The class should not be so underdeveloped and weak that I need to change my entire playstyle to make it viable, relying on only one or two builds that function properly."
It ties directly into class power: Using the Templar "chassis" to carry the Two-Handed Weapon and Heavy Armour build is futile, because the chassis cannot support the weight of those skill lines and breaks down.
This is a bad thing. The Templar chassis should be powerful enough to support and carry any desired playstyle to achieve success at all levels of play.
There should not be one supreme build for any class that is the one tried and true way to succeed and all others are unviable.
I am tired of playing World of Warcraft. I don't like "Well sorry only Fire spec for mages is worth a damn right now...you can't play Frost. Need to respec or gtfo".
No, I don't want to play Fire. I want to play Frost.
This game has the promise of play the way you want. I want to play the way I chose and to see it be successful, I'm tired of the "Beast mastery got nerfed, guess I have to play survival now to be relevant..." cycle.
People are clinging to this 'play the way you want' catchphrase way too much.
A video game where you could literally pick any 12 skills at random and throw them on your bar and succeed would be way too easy for a vast majority of people. Developers can't cater their games to the worst player/build (you) because it will be way too easy for everyone else. No challenge = bad game = failed game.
Do I think Templars need a buff? Can't say for sure but maybe so with the amount of tears on the forum. Do I think people who are intentionally running sub par builds have any say in class balancing. No effing way.
Mate , if i was the only one , then sure , i would agree with you. I do try to use a strong build , i dont go for RP... But maybe i just did not find a good one yet.
Problem is , i never saw a templar who did , atleast not on the level i see DKs running around doing.
I enter a VR public open dungeon , i see templar join together with others to beat the content , sure , each of us can +- take a pake of 6 mobs , but that is it.
And then i see a DK running around and killing 2/3 packs sometimes , alone at once. And i have seen atleast 1 DK per public group dungeon i enter doing this.
So ... well , i dont claim to be an expert in balance , but hey , im guessing there is something wrong here.Edited by Nox_Aeterna on May 9, 2014 6:28PM"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
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rune focus(channeld focus morph) is awsomly good for tanks it sustains it self and allows a tank to wear what ever gear he likes and still caps his armor/resist values while beating the sh|t out of mobs. as a caster its rather useless as you normally try to stay at range while casting.Rune Focus=only good for casters.
Edited by Tankqull on May 9, 2014 7:42PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Ravinsild✭✭✭✭People are clinging to this 'play the way you want' catchphrase way too much.
A video game where you could literally pick any 12 skills at random and throw them on your bar and succeed would be way too easy for a vast majority of people. Developers can't cater their games to the worst player/build (you) because it will be way too easy for everyone else. No challenge = bad game = failed game.
Do I think Templars need a buff? Can't say for sure but maybe so with the amount of tears on the forum. Do I think people who are intentionally running sub par builds have any say in class balancing. No effing way.
There is a reason WHY people are "clinging to this 'play the way you want' catchphrase".
Because we're sick of being told how to play our class based on the nerf/buff cycle. We're tired of games with set definitions of "This class does this, no matter what" with limited choices and then to half THOSE options limited even more because one of the three choices of "playstyle" you get are "bad" because it just got nerfed.
By no means is there ANY indication, what so ever, at the beginning of the game when you pick up a two-handed weapon and begin to pursue that tree, that you are picking into a sub-par build.
Neither is there any indication that wishing to wear heavy armour for more protection, but also buffing damage (melee), is sub-par compared to light clothing.
This should not be a subpar build, it's fairly standard Big Weapon + Knight in Shining Armour "trope" or cliche, even:
http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#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
But it doesn't work at Veteran Rank 4 without getting two hit by mobs. Why? This should not be the case. It's pretty basic/cut and dry/text book "Fighter" build with self heals even.
This is like something you'd see in your average, run of the mill pen and paper D&D game of nearly any addition. The Paladin who charges in the front lines and swings a big weapon to deal damage to the monsters with the additional utility to heal (lay on hands, cure) or fear evil or detect evil.0 -
malais✭deathcoyrwb17_ESO wrote: »It is not so much of the matter of Templars needing balance, it is more of other classes needing to be balanced down. Templars are pretty much the most balanced class in TESO currently. It is what other classes can do, DK/Sorcs that make Templars seem underpowered. Our competitor classes are definitely overpowered and once they are balanced down to Templar level, it will be all fair game.
That being said, i'm also hoping some minor tweaks to our class skills as to be honest, quite a number of them are useless.
Never should there be nerfs. ESO should be about fun not "fair". Right now playing a solo dps Templar in vet content is not fun. I don't want zos to make dks sorcs equal to Templars. I want them to make Templars as much fun as a dk is in vet content.0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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i was talking about pvp, melee cant stay "camped" above the rune in pvp, but casters/healers can.tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »
rune focus(channeld focus morph) is awsomly good for tanks it sustains it self and allows a tank to wear what ever gear he likes and still caps his armor/resist values while beating the sh|t out of mobs. as a caster its rather useless as you normally try to stay at range while casting.Rune Focus=only good for casters.
VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Alpha_Protocol✭✭✭Alpha_Protocol wrote: »"What we have here is a failure to min-maximucate!"
Stop that.
This doesn't seem relevant to anything in the thread or contribute to the discussion on the problems and current power level of the Templar class.
It's code for "maybe your skill spec / play style needs to be refined". I don't see broken, I see possibilities.
Templars by their very nature are a heal/tank/support class. Maybe it's not for everyone. What are you going to ask for next, Divine Storm and Divine Shield?Edited by Alpha_Protocol on May 10, 2014 12:30AM0 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭After reading this and similar threads, I'm just itching to take this "nightmare mode" on. I just love a challenge, and 1-50 has so far been a faceroll, it'll be a nice change.
I just don't understand - is it really possible that, with purple gear and glyphs, with all those defenses and heals we have, we get destroyed that easily? I find that hard to believe. I start then to wonder if it's a case of class envy and not outright problems with the class itself.
See, I don't care if that DK can steamroll mobs. I just care that I can play my Templar and win fights. So I have to heal. So I have to throw down defenses. Switch out skills often. And it takes me 2x longer to win a fight. So what? If I win and it was a good, challenging fight, it's a plus! Entertainment!
The other end, where you can go through 2 alliances worth of veteran content on just one build, using the same 5 skills, the same rotation over and over again... who in their right mind would want that? That's the definition of boring.
That's for PvE, of course, though I've been playing PvP since 12-ish and never had issues since you never really play 1vs1 there unless you really go out of your way to do so. And afaik, templars are more than useful in PvP.0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭See, I don't care if that DK can steamroll mobs. I just care that I can play my Templar and win fights. So I have to heal. So I have to throw down defenses. Switch out skills often. And it takes me 2x longer to win a fight. So what? If I win and it was a good, challenging fight, it's a plus! Entertainment!
jeay entertainment pure - waiting to reg your three bars after a mob group while he is taking down the next two groups
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »See, I don't care if that DK can steamroll mobs. I just care that I can play my Templar and win fights. So I have to heal. So I have to throw down defenses. Switch out skills often. And it takes me 2x longer to win a fight. So what? If I win and it was a good, challenging fight, it's a plus! Entertainment!
jeay entertainment pure - waiting to reg your three bars after a mob group while he is taking down the next two groups
You mean those ten seconds it takes for the out of combat regen to do its thing? What's the rush, do you have a deadline or something? Downtime in this game is minimal, just because some classes can bulldoze through content with certain builds doesn't mean there is a problem with the templar class.
And as I said - I watched those players do their bulldozing. Looks extremely boring. They don't deviate from the rotation. They don't mix things up. I find that PvE fights are an excellent opportunity to explore more exotic stuff than mere skill/stat synergies. For example the fluidity of animation during combat - ESO actually has an animation system which allows for really beautiful and fluid "combo" moves to be stringed together - these are not "optimal" in every case - but they're fun to do and watch.
And you feel more of a badass when you win a fight that way than by spamming 2-3 skills until everything is dead.
People complain about the lack of builds, as if you die horribly each and every time you run into a group of NPC's. When in reality it is very likely a case of players not using all their abilities in an appropriate fashion, but insisting on having a build which can do it all - no skills need to be swapped, no tactics need to be adjusted.
Well, that's not how this game was designed, and if something needs fixing, it's the builds which remove the necessity to adapt. We certainly do not need them added to classes which don't have them.0 -
serenity_painted✭✭✭utzpretzels wrote: »Alpha_Protocol wrote: »"What we have here is a failure to min-maximucate!"
Stop that.
This doesn't seem relevant to anything in the thread or contribute to the discussion on the problems and current power level of the Templar class.
I disagree. It gets to the heart of the issue being discussed here. Some people are saying "Templars aren't broken, you just have to do the exact same thing that I am doing", while others are saying, "Yes, they are broken, because they don't support a variety of builds."
Min-maxers are in the first camp, RPers and those with a preferred play style in the second. And since the game was promoted and marketed to us as a "play what you want" type of game, then I have to side with the group that says the templar is indeed broken.
Which is why your whine is so laughable, because the lack of build variety goes for any class that is not a DK. Try playing a melee sorc, let alone a 2H light armor battlemage sorc and see how well that goes in vet ranks.
What makes the whine laughable? If DK's have such good build variety why shouldn't other classes share the same privelige?
The games greatest and one of it's few strenghts are the variety of builds you can make, if class abilites don't synergize well enough with general skills, or even worse with it's own class skills there's a problem.
Also as a pure melee sorc using DW/S & S that's breezing through vet content, you have no idea what you're talking about.
All classes should be able to fill any role but in their own way, one class might have an edge over another at a particular role but they should atleast be viable.
That's what we were reassured was the goal and that was the experience up to lvl50.
What sets the classes apart should be playstyle, the way they approach things,
not Sorc=RDPS, Nightblade=MDPS, DK=TANK, Templar=HEALER that's increadibly boring and goes against everything TES is about and also the reason why we only have 4 classes.
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