Templar class needs help bad, balance fix.

malais

Thechemicals wrote: »

Templars kick ass. Havent had any problems with them. Im only lvl 45 though, but its been easy so far. Even pvp is a cynch.

There are no issues before vet content with any class save night blade and that's only because of their buggy skills.

When you reach vet content you will hit a brick wall as far as leveling goes.

Thechemicals

malais wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Templars kick ass. Havent had any problems with them. Im only lvl 45 though, but its been easy so far. Even pvp is a cynch.

There are no issues before vet content with any class save night blade and that's only because of their buggy skills.

When you reach vet content you will hit a brick wall as far as leveling goes.

Yes ive read that. It requires a change of your build most times. Can be exciting

Mephiston87

no a change of build wont save you from veteran content, the templar abilities dont scale to veteran content. without self buffs, CC and AOE which we have next to none of, you will fail. Without a shield im certain i would be able to do next to none of the content. The templar does tank well, but in saying that while tanking you have no good abilities to AOE, CC, self buff or recharge your bars except restoring aura, and that costs a medium amount of mana for a small amount of health/stamina or next to nothing because like most people playing templars your regens are already over charged.

Templar/NB are the least played classes by far for a reason.

chrisub17_ESO104

malais wrote: »

Here is where I see the problem.

Templars are healers meant and bred to be from the start. At v1 with crap hear I can get 7 casts of breath of life before I run out of mana in pvp. A couple strong resto staff attacks and my regen (capped 89 btw) I can get a couple more.

This means as a Templar I can heal 21 players for ton of hp in under 10 seconds. This negates most burst AOEs used on pvp. This is where the Templar shines.

To do this I have a mana battery build with capped regen and capped pool along with all the cost reduction I can find.

To pull this off I have little survivability other than my own heals and virtually no dps on my own.

This is how the Templar is designed to be played. As group heals and support. (While built around BoL I have other runes and group mitigation as well).

However the way vet content is built with phasing and whatnot being a support build really isn't possible all the time. Our class dps skills are lackluster at best when compared to other classes. Weapon skills in vet content do NOT scale to the contents level of difficulty so can not really be relied on. (Destro being the oddball that seems to).

So while the class seems to be designed around group play the content really isn't. If it were possible to level in pvp this wouldn't be such a glaring issue. But as it is a Templar is forced to spam heal themselves to survive a single group pull while other classes don't have to. Making is weaker as a solo class when standing alongside the DKs and sorcs of the world.

I have shelved my Templar until zos realizes this and gives us 1 solo friendly pve build. I would even be happy if this redesign took away from our heals to get higher dps while using it. Ie like the battle bard thing from lotro.

My templar is V1 and I mow through groups of 3-6 mobs. I also have a V6 DK so I know how content scales up, and I'm positive that soloing will not be a problem.

Why is it that so many people just refuse to look at the real problem, which is them and not the class? Not only are you probably not even using the right abilities, you probably haven't even thought of how to put together combinations that maximize dps based on weapon power buffs like barrage, or keeping yourself at or close to armor cap while wearing light armor using empowering sweep, or so many other nice tricks that are available to the class.

The one thing that makes me a better player then you, is attitude. I look around and see templars doing veteran content with relative ease, so I start with the assumption that if I'm struggling, it's probably me that is missing something. Then I start doing my homework, looking up builds, trying some out for myself, experimenting with what works and what doesn't. I also took the time to learn combat mechanics and how to methodically counter mobs instead of just blindly spamming biting jabs until either the mobs or me are dead, which is unfortunately what I see a lot of templars doing out there.

That approach is what took me from normal play where 3 mobs were often difficult, to soloing those normally unsolable one per zone public dungeons all the way up to V1 (they are a bit too much for me to solo in veteran content right now, but I do think it's possible I just haven't figured it out yet).

Ravinsild

Mephiston87 wrote: »

no a change of build wont save you from veteran content, the templar abilities dont scale to veteran content. without self buffs, CC and AOE which we have next to none of, you will fail. Without a shield im certain i would be able to do next to none of the content. The templar does tank well, but in saying that while tanking you have no good abilities to AOE, CC, self buff or recharge your bars except restoring aura, and that costs a medium amount of mana for a small amount of health/stamina or next to nothing because like most people playing templars your regens are already over charged.

Templar/NB are the least played classes by far for a reason.

This was my biggest issue.

I leveled a 5 Heavy, 2 Medium armor Templar with a Two-Handed weapon build. One bar was general stuff: Charge, Drain Essence, Uppercut, Reverse Cut and Rushed Ceremony with the Healing Vampire Bat swarm.

The second bar for specifically for Daedra/Undead, which my character concept was based on: A vampire hunter who was a vampire...like vampire hunter D. The second bar was Silver Bolts, Cleave, Reverse Cut, Vampire's Bane and Evil Hunter with Solar Prison ult.

I decided "Oh, I'd like to try out Werewolf now"...I understood I'd lose some survivability. What I did NOT realize was that the Vampire was the crutch keeping this corpse of a class hobbling along.

Once I lost Drain Essence and the healing bat swarm it went from being manageable to being IMPOSSIBLE.

Yesterday I got killed in TWO HITS by mobs. A pack of 3, as I struggled to kill ONE of them, the other two, a dual wielding mob and a two-handed mob CCed me, had run out of stamina blocking, and breaking the CC and just got CUT DOWN.

I tried MULTIPLE abilities to increase my survivability to make up for the lack of vampire sustain...simply not doable. Sun Shield? Crap, and you run out of mana so you can't even heal yourself. The Restorative Aura is "okay" but it's no Green Dragon's Blood.

I tried cast time heals, they take too long, I tried all sorts of different skills, taking two-handed weapon skills off my bar and going more magicka heavy...

Nothing works. You just get crapped on over and over and over. Without the overpowered vampire sustain to crutch this broken, defeated class along it simply stops dead in the water unable to progress further.

chrisub17_ESO104

Ravinsild wrote: »

Mephiston87 wrote: »

no a change of build wont save you from veteran content, the templar abilities dont scale to veteran content. without self buffs, CC and AOE which we have next to none of, you will fail. Without a shield im certain i would be able to do next to none of the content. The templar does tank well, but in saying that while tanking you have no good abilities to AOE, CC, self buff or recharge your bars except restoring aura, and that costs a medium amount of mana for a small amount of health/stamina or next to nothing because like most people playing templars your regens are already over charged.

Templar/NB are the least played classes by far for a reason.

This was my biggest issue.

I leveled a 5 Heavy, 2 Medium armor Templar with a Two-Handed weapon build. One bar was general stuff: Charge, Drain Essence, Uppercut, Reverse Cut and Rushed Ceremony with the Healing Vampire Bat swarm.

The second bar for specifically for Daedra/Undead, which my character concept was based on: A vampire hunter who was a vampire...like vampire hunter D. The second bar was Silver Bolts, Cleave, Reverse Cut, Vampire's Bane and Evil Hunter with Solar Prison ult.

I decided "Oh, I'd like to try out Werewolf now"...I understood I'd lose some survivability. What I did NOT realize was that the Vampire was the crutch keeping this corpse of a class hobbling along.

Once I lost Drain Essence and the healing bat swarm it went from being manageable to being IMPOSSIBLE.

Yesterday I got killed in TWO HITS by mobs. A pack of 3, as I struggled to kill ONE of them, the other two, a dual wielding mob and a two-handed mob CCed me, had run out of stamina blocking, and breaking the CC and just got CUT DOWN.

I tried MULTIPLE abilities to increase my survivability to make up for the lack of vampire sustain...simply not doable. Sun Shield? Crap, and you run out of mana so you can't even heal yourself. The Restorative Aura is "okay" but it's no Green Dragon's Blood.

I tried cast time heals, they take too long, I tried all sorts of different skills, taking two-handed weapon skills off my bar and going more magicka heavy...

Nothing works. You just get crapped on over and over and over. Without the overpowered vampire sustain to crutch this broken, defeated class along it simply stops dead in the water unable to progress further.

You chose possibly the worst possible armor and weapons for veteran content.

It sounds to me like you are trying to play too defensively. As you have found, it doesn't work that well in veteran content. This is true for every class, not just templar.

heavy armor doesn't hold a candle to light. The passives are weak and you can almost soft cap armor on every fight using empowering sweep if you do it right. Medium armor is also fairly meh, as it is boosting a relatively small part of your dps (weapons).

Go 7/7 light or 7/2 light/heavy, use magicka cost reduction trinkets, and if you have points in stamina for christs sake ditch those and go with magicka or health.

Sun shield is not a solo skill. Blazing shield on the other hand is pure awsome. It really shines on pulls of 4-6.

For large pulls I start with the charge that hits 6 targets, then immediately pop blazing shield to absorb the up front damage and make the shield pop quickly so I don't take a full 6 seconds of no regen.

The staple of my dps is solar barrage following by empowering sweep, plus biting jabs thrown to either build ultimate or finish off mobs. The damage boost makes sweep hit pretty hard. I also stack as much crit as possible. I often run inner light, and I use the thief stone.

On pulls of 4-6 I can normally get off 2 sweeps.

I run sword/shield but have no weapon skills slotted, and bash is only used to just finish off the last mob or two when using magicka would be overkill.

I also use blocking and healing as ways to build extra ultimate. I almost always have resto as my second weapon, and before a fight I swap to it and put mutagen on myself. During a fight I take my time and make sure to block the heavy attacks, and/or move around a bit while blocking to get a better position. I never just blindly spam.

If you do have to heal, wait until you are low health and use honor the dead. In that situation it is extremely mana efficient due to the magicka it gives back, and it often crits for a huge heal.

Overall, you just need to focus more on offense. No class in veteran content does well (relatively) by playing defensively.

Ravinsild

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

You chose possibly the worst possible armor and weapons for veteran content.

It sounds to me like you are trying to play too defensively. As you have found, it doesn't work that well in veteran content. This is true for every class, not just templar.

heavy armor doesn't hold a candle to light. The passives are weak and you can almost soft cap armor on every fight using empowering sweep if you do it right. Medium armor is also fairly meh, as it is boosting a relatively small part of your dps (weapons).

Go 7/7 light or 7/2 light/heavy, use magicka cost reduction trinkets, and if you have points in stamina for christs sake ditch those and go with magicka or health.

Sun shield is not a solo skill. Blazing shield on the other hand is pure awsome. It really shines on pulls of 4-6.

For large pulls I start with the charge that hits 6 targets, then immediately pop blazing shield to absorb the up front damage and make the shield pop quickly so I don't take a full 6 seconds of no regen.

The staple of my dps is solar barrage following by empowering sweep, plus biting jabs thrown to either build ultimate or finish off mobs. The damage boost makes sweep hit pretty hard. I also stack as much crit as possible. I often run inner light, and I use the thief stone.

On pulls of 4-6 I can normally get off 2 sweeps.

I run sword/shield but have no weapon skills slotted, and bash is only used to just finish off the last mob or two when using magicka would be overkill.

I also use blocking and healing as ways to build extra ultimate. I almost always have resto as my second weapon, and before a fight I swap to it and put mutagen on myself. During a fight I take my time and make sure to block the heavy attacks, and/or move around a bit while blocking to get a better position. I never just blindly spam.

If you do have to heal, wait until you are low health and use honor the dead. In that situation it is extremely mana efficient due to the magicka it gives back, and it often crits for a huge heal.

Overall, you just need to focus more on offense. No class in veteran content does well (relatively) by playing defensively.

I chose Heavy Armor because of the looks. I don't want to wear cloth/robes, I want to wear METAL and be a KNIGHT. With a giant sword. It's the concept, the look, the idea of the character.

It is *** to tell me, "Sorry mate, can't be a Knight, you have to be a priest to advance. Throw your character's concept out the window if you want to continue."

Also, notice the skill set up: Charge....Uppercut, Reverse Slice... these are all offensive. I have 3 offensive and 2 defensive moves. Drain Essence being both, technically, as it sustains/heals and also deals damage and CC's.

Unfortunately....the Templar has NOTHING to compete with Drain Essence. By curing myself of Vampirism and losing this ability the Templar doesn't have an answer for it. It simply doesn't have a tool for survivability as powerful as the vampire's drain essence.

The focus of the character is NOT Magicka and light armor, it's a Tanky DPS. A Knight in heavy plate mail that charges into battle and swings his sword cutting down the foes of evil...with his sword. His sword is the focus, with the aesthetic of shiny metal armor as a supplement to the fantasy.

I shouldn't have to literally rebuild my character from the ground up to succeed. I'm sorry, that is simply NOT AN OPTION.

Erock25

Or you could wear 5 light and heavy chest/helm and look quite knightly without gimping yourself.

chrisub17_ESO104

So you based your build on Aesthetics, which you never mentioned, and you actually think that's an approach that should work? Really???

Given that everyone has different ideas of what they would like their character to look like, the logical conclusion is that the game should work equally well with any combination of armor, weapons, and skills.

See the problem there? No probably not. Why do I waste my time trying to help daff people is beyond me.

Mephiston87

The class in general is lacking far too much of everything, CC/AOE/resource regain/survivability. all that its the lowest of the classes for a what? a heal tree that your forced to use light armour and a resto staf to actually use it? because using it on its own u run OOM in just a few heals. Templar = Paladin class of most other games, its meant to be an all rounder class, able to change to suit the situation but always being slightly under other classes who specialise in that role. But there is nothing all rounder about the class at all, it cant even heal efficiently, it can just do the largest heals. it has a tank tree, It has a single target DPS tree, neither of which are very good at all. It is completely true that light armour is the best for basically any character in the game due to magic abilities far over powering stamina/weapon abilities. In general alot needs to be fixed for balancing PVP/PVE.

Ravinsild

Erock25 wrote: »

Or you could wear 5 light and heavy chest/helm and look quite knightly without gimping yourself.

Let's take a look at Light Armor:
Recovery: Increases magicka recovery by 4% per piece of Light armour equipped.
Okay...well I use magicka as a supplement to my build, but it's not the focus. I use it mainly for healing when needed, but all of my offense comes from the weapon skills/two-handed weapon skills...this isn't that useful to me.

Evocation: Reduces the magicka cost of spells by 3% per piece of Light armour equipped.
Well, again, I don't use magicka for casting spells, so while I suppose technically reducing the cost of spells would increase my survivability by decreasing the cost of my heals....heavy armour gives me HP regeneration and additional healing per piece of heavy armour, so wouldn't they balance out?

Spell Warding: Increases base spell resist by 8% per piece of light armour equipped.
Universally handy, I'm sure but heavy armour provides the following...Resolve: Increases armor by 3% and spell resist by 3% per piece of Heavy Armour equipped.

So, that's 5% less spell resist, but improves armour and still gives some spell protection. Often I find more physical enemies than mages anyway.

Prodigy: Grants 10% chance for spells to cause critical damage while a light armour set of 5 or more is worn. Well, since I only use healing spells this doesn't help me at all. Again, all my damage comes from stamina based weapon attacks...

Concentration: Players ignore 6% of enemy Spell Resistance per piece of Light Armour equipped. Well, I don't use offensive magicka based spells, but can it pierce my own spell resist to grant myself more healing from Rushed Ceremony?

Meanwhile Heavy Armor:

Constitution: Increases health regeneration by 2% per piece of heavy armour equipped. Oh, well that's universally useful as all builds, no matter what, need health...and regenerating it more quickly equates to more survival. Doesn't help my offense, but neither would Light Armour, as again, I do not use Magicka based attacks.

I already went over resolve...less spell resistance trading in for more armour, sounds decent and more or less equal depending on situation.

Juggernaut: Increase power with melee attacks by 1% per piece of heavy armour equipped. Well that's great. I use melee attacks all the time! It's my bread and butter for my build...this sounds like a solid offensive boost!

Bracing: Decreases cost of blocking by 20% if wearing a set of 5 or more heavy armour. While I don't plan on tanking, it is useful for blocking the heavy attacks of monsters and saving on stamina so I can use more offensive moves like Uppercut, Cleave, Reverse Slice, Silver Bolts or any other weapon/fighter's guild based attacks...that my character's concept is based upon.

Rapid Mending: Increases Healing received by 1% per piece of heavy armour equipped. This is basically the reverse of that Concentration thing I was talking about, in that it DOES increase the healing I receive, which is useful in all situations.

Medium armour does give me increase stamina regeneration, melee critical strikes chance and reduced cost on dodge rolls..

Full package? Increased healing flat out, HP regeneration and from direct healing spells received...increase melee damage and regeneration and crit chance to deal more damage, decreased cost of defensive abilities allowing more room for more offense. Dodge out of an AOE? Costs less, which leaves more for uppercutting, reverse slicing, cleaving, charging and silver bolting... and increased armour AND spell resist as opposed to only spell resist.

As you can see, the reasons why I chose what I chose were quite logical and well thought out, planned out ahead of time you might say.

Not my fault I didn't know veteran content felt unkind toward those of us who like our weapons as opposed to our magic.

malais

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

malais wrote: »

Here is where I see the problem.

Templars are healers meant and bred to be from the start. At v1 with crap hear I can get 7 casts of breath of life before I run out of mana in pvp. A couple strong resto staff attacks and my regen (capped 89 btw) I can get a couple more.

This means as a Templar I can heal 21 players for ton of hp in under 10 seconds. This negates most burst AOEs used on pvp. This is where the Templar shines.

To do this I have a mana battery build with capped regen and capped pool along with all the cost reduction I can find.

To pull this off I have little survivability other than my own heals and virtually no dps on my own.

This is how the Templar is designed to be played. As group heals and support. (While built around BoL I have other runes and group mitigation as well).

However the way vet content is built with phasing and whatnot being a support build really isn't possible all the time. Our class dps skills are lackluster at best when compared to other classes. Weapon skills in vet content do NOT scale to the contents level of difficulty so can not really be relied on. (Destro being the oddball that seems to).

So while the class seems to be designed around group play the content really isn't. If it were possible to level in pvp this wouldn't be such a glaring issue. But as it is a Templar is forced to spam heal themselves to survive a single group pull while other classes don't have to. Making is weaker as a solo class when standing alongside the DKs and sorcs of the world.

I have shelved my Templar until zos realizes this and gives us 1 solo friendly pve build. I would even be happy if this redesign took away from our heals to get higher dps while using it. Ie like the battle bard thing from lotro.

My templar is V1 and I mow through groups of 3-6 mobs. I also have a V6 DK so I know how content scales up, and I'm positive that soloing will not be a problem.

Why is it that so many people just refuse to look at the real problem, which is them and not the class? Not only are you probably not even using the right abilities, you probably haven't even thought of how to put together combinations that maximize dps based on weapon power buffs like barrage, or keeping yourself at or close to armor cap while wearing light armor using empowering sweep, or so many other nice tricks that are available to the class.

The one thing that makes me a better player then you, is attitude. I look around and see templars doing veteran content with relative ease, so I start with the assumption that if I'm struggling, it's probably me that is missing something. Then I start doing my homework, looking up builds, trying some out for myself, experimenting with what works and what doesn't. I also took the time to learn combat mechanics and how to methodically counter mobs instead of just blindly spamming biting jabs until either the mobs or me are dead, which is unfortunately what I see a lot of templars doing out there.

That approach is what took me from normal play where 3 mobs were often difficult, to soloing those normally unsolable one per zone public dungeons all the way up to V1 (they are a bit too much for me to solo in veteran content right now, but I do think it's possible I just haven't figured it out yet).

When your Templar hits the same level as your dk. Look back and see which was easier to play. Vet content is nothing like regular content as I had 0 difficulty pre-50.

I have done my research and I choose to ignore the basic condescension of your post and will simply see if you believe the same in 4 vet levels.

The bottom line is our dps skills do NOT scale the same and this we are not able to kill as fast a DK or sorc.

Nox_Aeterna

Nidwin wrote: »

It's a fact that we aren't that great for solo PVE but for me it's working as intended. Last thing we need is to have a dps WP's DoK's pandora box.

DK -> tank
NB -> best mdps
Sorc -> best rdps
Templar -> healzz, support

Now it's possible to make hybrid builds but we certainly don't want to see a Templar being able to tank like a full tanked specced DK, putting Sorc/NB dps out, healing like a real Templar and being able to range cc like a Sorc, all in one. For this kind of crap there's -> Vampire bite.

The problem with the DK is that his dps is way to high compared to his ability to tank/survive.

As for the Templar once in Cyrodiil and having nothing for him/her

1. Best direct heals and doesn't require a weapon so can be slotted anywhere, anyhow.
2. 30% aoe 8s damage debuff with Nova. (ult)
3. 30% aoe 6s heal debuff with Dark Flare
4. Free spamable "pounce" (not even requiring a Lion) with Charge, whatever morph, as escape.
5. Radiant Aura, 80% health and stamina regen for thar bros and sistas
6. Cleanse making purge remove all thar nastiness. (bye bye Dot's build, NERF Magus attitude), spamable

For this and much more I'm more than ready to "Slacker" a bit in PVE, solo. Worst case I just wait for someone to show up to tag along or ask to group up for some big ugly nasty bosses.

It is not working as intended.

When i bought this game , i heard any class could play any role.

If zen turn to me now and like you says X class will be always the best pick for X role. I will go cancel my sub right now.

Im expecting them to balance this , so that a templar can tank just like a DK , dps just like a sorc/NB and so on.

It should be a matter of the build we picked , not a matter of class. That is what was promised.

Still , i understand that the game is just out and thus poorly balanced.

Ravinsild

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

It is not working as intended.

When i bought this game , i heard any class could play any role.

If zen turn to me now and like you says X class will be always the best pick for X role. I will go cancel my sub right now.

Im expecting them to balance this , so that a templar can tank just like a DK , dps just like a sorc/NB and so on.

It should be a matter of the build we picked , not a matter of class. That is what was promised.

Still , i understand that the game is just out and thus poorly balanced.

This right here. The people telling me "Lol, just completely change your entire build from stamina based weapon attacks to a full light armour magicka based build!!!" anger me greatly.

Why should magicka based builds stomp all over stamina/weapon based builds? Why can't both be simultaneously potent and viable?

Mephiston87

Stam and magica builds were origionally intended to be as important as eachother, and do do similar things. Stamina more tho for avoidance/survival, magica for more CC and AOE. other then those 2 theyr emant to be the same.

Ravinsild

Unfortunately such is not the case. I've seen many threads complaining about how their weapon/stamina based builds are not working, meanwhile everyone is telling them to go reroll magicka based builds...or just use sword and shield.

Those are the options right now: Sword and Shield, or all Magicka/Light Armour.

Those work, apparently nothing else does. That's straight garbage if you ask me.

tplink3r1

Thechemicals wrote: »

Templars kick ass. Havent had any problems with them. Im only lvl 45 though, but its been easy so far. Even pvp is a cynch.

non vr levels are easy even without armor.

Erock25

Ravinsild wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Or you could wear 5 light and heavy chest/helm and look quite knightly without gimping yourself.

Let's take a look at Light Armor:
Recovery: Increases magicka recovery by 4% per piece of Light armour equipped.
Okay...well I use magicka as a supplement to my build, but it's not the focus. I use it mainly for healing when needed, but all of my offense comes from the weapon skills/two-handed weapon skills...this isn't that useful to me.

Evocation: Reduces the magicka cost of spells by 3% per piece of Light armour equipped.
Well, again, I don't use magicka for casting spells, so while I suppose technically reducing the cost of spells would increase my survivability by decreasing the cost of my heals....heavy armour gives me HP regeneration and additional healing per piece of heavy armour, so wouldn't they balance out?

Spell Warding: Increases base spell resist by 8% per piece of light armour equipped.
Universally handy, I'm sure but heavy armour provides the following...Resolve: Increases armor by 3% and spell resist by 3% per piece of Heavy Armour equipped.

So, that's 5% less spell resist, but improves armour and still gives some spell protection. Often I find more physical enemies than mages anyway.

Prodigy: Grants 10% chance for spells to cause critical damage while a light armour set of 5 or more is worn. Well, since I only use healing spells this doesn't help me at all. Again, all my damage comes from stamina based weapon attacks...

Concentration: Players ignore 6% of enemy Spell Resistance per piece of Light Armour equipped. Well, I don't use offensive magicka based spells, but can it pierce my own spell resist to grant myself more healing from Rushed Ceremony?

Meanwhile Heavy Armor:

Constitution: Increases health regeneration by 2% per piece of heavy armour equipped. Oh, well that's universally useful as all builds, no matter what, need health...and regenerating it more quickly equates to more survival. Doesn't help my offense, but neither would Light Armour, as again, I do not use Magicka based attacks.

I already went over resolve...less spell resistance trading in for more armour, sounds decent and more or less equal depending on situation.

Juggernaut: Increase power with melee attacks by 1% per piece of heavy armour equipped. Well that's great. I use melee attacks all the time! It's my bread and butter for my build...this sounds like a solid offensive boost!

Bracing: Decreases cost of blocking by 20% if wearing a set of 5 or more heavy armour. While I don't plan on tanking, it is useful for blocking the heavy attacks of monsters and saving on stamina so I can use more offensive moves like Uppercut, Cleave, Reverse Slice, Silver Bolts or any other weapon/fighter's guild based attacks...that my character's concept is based upon.

Rapid Mending: Increases Healing received by 1% per piece of heavy armour equipped. This is basically the reverse of that Concentration thing I was talking about, in that it DOES increase the healing I receive, which is useful in all situations.

Medium armour does give me increase stamina regeneration, melee critical strikes chance and reduced cost on dodge rolls..

Full package? Increased healing flat out, HP regeneration and from direct healing spells received...increase melee damage and regeneration and crit chance to deal more damage, decreased cost of defensive abilities allowing more room for more offense. Dodge out of an AOE? Costs less, which leaves more for uppercutting, reverse slicing, cleaving, charging and silver bolting... and increased armour AND spell resist as opposed to only spell resist.

As you can see, the reasons why I chose what I chose were quite logical and well thought out, planned out ahead of time you might say.

Not my fault I didn't know veteran content felt unkind toward those of us who like our weapons as opposed to our magic.

No one wants to read a novel you posted in A THREAD ABOUT OVERALL CLASS POWER when you say yourself you chose your skills on a RP concept. Your 'Templar is weak because I can't play mine as a vampire hunter build' logic is flawed. You say yourself that you tried a more magic build and it did not work because you were out of mana.... So wear light armor. It's as simple as that.

Mephiston87

its true its not a good way to go about balance ill agree with that, but its a started templar "we need a boost" thread because the templar really does need some love.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

I think there needs to be a major overhaul on stamina weapons, my logic and years of MMO gaming tell me that melee classes NEED a way to live through the AOE, Cleaves and groups of mobs that are in most cases on your ass as melee.

Stamina weapons or melee need shields, healing or regen tied to some of there abilities to help offset the dangers of melee.

Zenimax is on the right track with weapon skills like Twin Blades morph Blood Craze, but even that ability is far to weak to do any good worth a dam at vet levels, what needs to be done to keep this balanced and away from heavy magic using classes is to maybe tie in a 5 piece passive to heavy armor that (example) heals the character based on the damage they do, maybe crit or just a flat out proc per second, below is an idea that I tossed around that I think, no I know will work based on other MMO I have played with this same problem.

(Example)Heavy Armor passive, Rapid Mending:
With a set of 5 or more equipped, Increases healing received by 1% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Melee attacks heal the caster for 5% of all Great Sword, Dual Wield & One hand and Shield damage.

This will kill two birds with one stone, Zenimax said that they know that heavy armor needs some love, well this would do the trick as well as make melee skills more appealing.

O and BTW, Zenimax got all my "Gold" back within an hour of my ticket, this is what I love about this company,for that I will remain patient and take my time to help them balance and polish the game to become the best it can be.

Devotion

we do need many boosts. i never felt so useless at healing in any MMO like i do in ESO. i have little to no control of who i heal in pvp. its just heal and hope. my instant heal just picks a random low health person before even healing myself.

in pve i had to totally change my build to even think about being effective, it heavily involved resto staff and destro staff. rarely used the class skills at all.

DK on the other hand gets everything very easily....

SexyVette07

Mephiston87 wrote: »

The templar ardent spear tree needs a complete rework, its an extremely soft melee tree. Namely the abilities dont get stronger as you level, my jabs is doing the same damage at vet 6 as it was at lvl 50, groups of 3 are definately getting harder to kill now requiring a whole mana bar of jabs+stamina bar of shield bash, and with templar having little to no way of regaining resources quickly its a very slow progress through quests since you need to wait 30sec between each group.

Thats the main problem im having but the whole 3 skill lines are littered with useless abilities like radial sweep, sunshield, eclipse etc. all of which are extremely expensive resource wise but offer next to no benefits. Only one of the dawns wrath passives are to actually help the dawns wrath tree.

Also the heals have a preferance in pvp/groups you will see them shoot off everywhere except yourself.

The templar tree's have next to no resource management, other then 1 or 2 snares no CC's, no effective AOE, next to no decent length self/group buffs and no escape abilities. Oppinions may differ but im vet 6 and this is how im feeling about the class, i have done plenty of PVP and i have gotten every single skill in the Templar tree's past theyr morphs just to test and see how they go.

The reason why it isnt stronger is you basically stop leveling at 50. You get no more spell power (which is what class skills scale from), where at 1-50, every level gave you a few more stats. Increasing VR ranks only opens up higher level gear. The only way to make it stronger is through spell power jewelry, or respec your skill points to magicka.

Its the same way with all classes.

Mephiston87

well im glads thats all u say about my little rant so clearly you agree with basically everything too lol.

Mephiston87

Devotion wrote: »

we do need many boosts. i never felt so useless at healing in any MMO like i do in ESO. i have little to no control of who i heal in pvp. its just heal and hope. my instant heal just picks a random low health person before even healing myself.

in pve i had to totally change my build to even think about being effective, it heavily involved resto staff and destro staff. rarely used the class skills at all.

DK on the other hand gets everything very easily....

I agree i have also gone as a secondary healer and my bar is nearly completely resto staff related, they just give so much more control in your healing/shielding and the mana cost is far more efficient for resto staff heals then templar heals.

captain_awesome

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Every single heal went to the NPC? I would suggest a respec, maybe read up on some builds people are working with. I have yet to see an all out failure of the Templar heals like this.

Your heals can actually go to a pet on a group member - you know the ones from the CE. That is annoying. The guy you quoted is right, the smart heals are not that smart...

My Templar is V10, and what people have been saying about v3+ is correct. Things do get much harder at that point. I leveled almost exclusively with Resto staff, 2 heavy pieces the rest light. Offhand sword and board for bash and 2nd skillbar for vamp/deadra/undead.

I started a DK which was so much easier I got bored and canned it, it's boring and OP. I then started a NB, which I found ridiculously easy and fun but he's only 35 at the moment. I'm guessing Sorcerer is easy as well, at least my guildies tell me its childs play.

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned - from a V10 Templar thats finished cadwells quest, got all skyshards, been everywhere on the map I can go. I do think that Templar is "less powerful" than all the other classes. I didnt try "Vamplar" though, maybe that would have helped

rastamun1234b14_ESO

I feel the same way. Since I have been leveling in the vet levels thinks have got very difficult, I find myself fighting mobs forever to kill them. I also hate coming across quest bosses and not being able to kill them solo and having to wait for someone to come help me lol.

deathcoyrwb17_ESO

It is not so much of the matter of Templars needing balance, it is more of other classes needing to be balanced down. Templars are pretty much the most balanced class in TESO currently. It is what other classes can do, DK/Sorcs that make Templars seem underpowered. Our competitor classes are definitely overpowered and once they are balanced down to Templar level, it will be all fair game.

That being said, i'm also hoping some minor tweaks to our class skills as to be honest, quite a number of them are useless.

Drekor

Nidwin wrote: »

I agree i have also gone as a secondary healer and my bar is nearly completely resto staff related, they just give so much more control in your healing/shielding and the mana cost is far more efficient for resto staff heals then templar heals.

That's actually not true. In most cases templar heals are actually more efficient. They are also stronger, faster, and extremely practical in any situation. Grand healing requires people to stay together for a long duration, templar heals do not. Rapid regen is nice but doesn't provide 30% more healing like extended ritual does, blessing of protection is nice if you morph it to combat prayer for the damage otherwise it's completely outshine by templar heals power. Steadfast ward is complete garbage since absorbs are hit before mitigation making it less than half as a effective as real healing, despite it shielding for less than a breath of life.

Nidwin

@Drekor‌

Could you please edit your post as I never wrote that stuff. Probably quoting someone who quoted me here.

Ravinsild

Erock25 wrote: »

No one wants to read a novel you posted in A THREAD ABOUT OVERALL CLASS POWER when you say yourself you chose your skills on a RP concept. Your 'Templar is weak because I can't play mine as a vampire hunter build' logic is flawed. You say yourself that you tried a more magic build and it did not work because you were out of mana.... So wear light armor. It's as simple as that.

Everything I said relates directly to class power. Since you appear to be dense, allow me to melt down my point into a soundbite you can easily digest:

"The class should not be so underdeveloped and weak that I need to change my entire playstyle to make it viable, relying on only one or two builds that function properly."

It ties directly into class power: Using the Templar "chassis" to carry the Two-Handed Weapon and Heavy Armour build is futile, because the chassis cannot support the weight of those skill lines and breaks down.

This is a bad thing. The Templar chassis should be powerful enough to support and carry any desired playstyle to achieve success at all levels of play.

There should not be one supreme build for any class that is the one tried and true way to succeed and all others are unviable.

I am tired of playing World of Warcraft. I don't like "Well sorry only Fire spec for mages is worth a damn right now...you can't play Frost. Need to respec or gtfo".

No, I don't want to play Fire. I want to play Frost.

This game has the promise of play the way you want. I want to play the way I chose and to see it be successful, I'm tired of the "Beast mastery got nerfed, guess I have to play survival now to be relevant..." cycle.