Templar class needs help bad, balance fix.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

This class needs better self healing, at higher level, rank + and above, I find myself stuck using Sword and Shield only using shield bash to kill a mob because any other way I take far to much damage, this class seems to be cursed with the Paladin stigma thinking because this class can heal we must decrease its survivability, well that's not the case in this game, self healing with this class is far weaker then that of a Dragon Knight, and with zero escapes like that of a Sorcerer or Night Blade.

What needs to be done with this class is increase its self healing by making Rushed Ceremony (and all it's morphs) always heal the Templar and add a effect that only effects the Templar like damage shield that is equal to a percentage of the heal cast on it self,this in turn will make the Templar instant heal on par with a Dragon Knights Dragon Blood.

Another thing that needs to be done is make Sun Fire add a heal over time on one of the Morphs equal to that of the damage over time on effect, making it on par with a Dragon knights Searing Strike morph.

Another thing that needs done is lower the magic cost of the Templar skill Eclipse and make it equal in magic cost to that of a Dragon Knights Reflective Scales.

All those things should help the Templar be on par with the Dragon Knight as far as survivability goes.

As for damage, I think the Templar is fine, they have a burst style of damage to a target as compared to a damage over time style that of the Dragon Knight, I think it balances out in terms of damage per second in PvE, but for PvP well damage over time wins hands down and the reason is every other class has to stay on the target, keep the enemy within the crosshairs to do damage while the Dragon Knight does not, this gives the Dragon Knight a very large advantage in PvP over all other classes, there damage is Aoe Dots, so it's like just shoot in any direction and it will kill without any aiming or skill behind it (set it and forget it)

To fix blind damage like Dots and Aoe in PVP you have to look at how the Dragon Knight applies damage, less Aoe more aiming to do damage, lower dot damage and increase it with more direct burst.

Lynx7386

What needs to be done with this class is increase its self healing by making Rushed Ceremony (and all it's morphs) always heal the Templar and add a effect that only effects the Templar like damage shield that is equal to a percentage of the heal cast on it self,this in turn will make the Templar instant heal on par with a Dragon Knights Dragon Blood.

As far as I'm aware, all of the templar heals (and all of the restoration staff heals, save for those that target an area) will always heal you as well as any additional targets. I may be wrong on that, but so far I havent had any issue with rushed ceremony not healing me when needed.

Also, even with such a change, it would not be on part with dragon blood. That's probably a good thing though, since dragon blood is in dire need of a downgrade - it's too good right now.

and with zero escapes like that of a Sorcerer or Night Blade.

Nightblades have no escapes, not sure where you got that idea from.

Another thing that needs to be done is make Sun Fire add a heal over time on one of the Morphs equal to that of the damage over time on effect, making it on par with a Dragon knights Searing Strike morph.

Sun fire does more damage than searing strike already, and the abilities between classes do not need to be homogenized.




personally I've had none of the issues you're talking about with my templar. I wear heavy armor and use a 2h maul. There's nothing about the templar that should force you into using a shield - if you're having survivability issues, then try upgrading your armor or using non-class abilities (which everyone has access to) to make up the difference, i.e. brawler, or circle of protection.

Tarwin

42 Tem, with 2H +1H and shield and a dash of Sun fire and self heals

So far I hold my own in PvE and the little PvP seem ok, but thats hard to guage on my skill vs their skill and I don't bash a lot

I honestly don't number crunch and delve into the genome of my class and skills, but I'm happy, it feels ok so far

Voodoo

I can heal just fine and with bows I can stun/slow mobs just fine as well. ...

roflcopter

Just hit V1 the other night, I am interested in what I am going to encounter.

Ravinsild

Templar is strong 1-50 but around mid veteran ranks it begins to struggle to the point that 3 mobs can mean death

Allyah

I manage fine.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Ravinsild wrote: »

Templar is strong 1-50 but around mid veteran ranks it begins to struggle to the point that 3 mobs can mean death

I was fine as you said 1-vr 2, but after that I can not live without my Sword and Shield, we lack the stay power, damage to survivability ratio.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Voodoo wrote: »

I can heal just fine and with bows I can stun/slow mobs just fine as well. ...

Wait till vr 3+ you will not kill be killing any group with a bow, you must go Sword and Shield, not sure about staff as I never played one, but I indeed have a ton of exp with Bow and Sword and Shield.

Allyah

I don't know if anyone having trouble uses Rune Focus but it is your friend.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

What needs to be done with this class is increase its self healing by making Rushed Ceremony (and all it's morphs) always heal the Templar and add a effect that only effects the Templar like damage shield that is equal to a percentage of the heal cast on it self,this in turn will make the Templar instant heal on par with a Dragon Knights Dragon Blood.

As far as I'm aware, all of the templar heals (and all of the restoration staff heals, save for those that target an area) will always heal you as well as any additional targets. I may be wrong on that, but so far I havent had any issue with rushed ceremony not healing me when needed.

Trust me RC heals the lowest health person first, I have died more times then I can count due to my heal healing the wrong person (ME)

Also, even with such a change, it would not be on part with dragon blood. That's probably a good thing though, since dragon blood is in dire need of a downgrade - it's too good right now.

and with zero escapes like that of a Sorcerer or Night Blade.

Nightblades have no escapes, not sure where you got that idea from.

They can vanish, sure not as good of an escape as a sorc, but a Temp much like the DK have no escapes, they have to fight to the death unlike a Sorc or a well played Nightblade.

Another thing that needs to be done is make Sun Fire add a heal over time on one of the Morphs equal to that of the damage over time on effect, making it on par with a Dragon knights Searing Strike morph.

Sun fire does more damage than searing strike already, and the abilities between classes do not need to be homogenized.




personally I've had none of the issues you're talking about with my templar. I wear heavy armor and use a 2h maul. There's nothing about the templar that should force you into using a shield - if you're having survivability issues, then try upgrading your armor or using non-class abilities (which everyone has access to) to make up the difference, i.e. brawler, or circle of protection.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Voodoo wrote: »

I can heal just fine and with bows I can stun/slow mobs just fine as well. ...

Now do that with a grp of 2 or more around other players with low health, your heal will get robbed due to the skills smart healing, this is why I wish RC to always heal the caster no matter what.

EriskRedLemur

I think the fact that at VR levels S&B is "needed" shows how lacking 2H and Bow are frankly and shield bash is unbalanced... Temps have a lot going for us I disagree about the heals a bit, but do agree there's some balance and AoE issues albeit not as bad as NB. This is all bound to change and balance issued just be patient; even if there's more struggle than DK or Sorc's at vr+ levels it's still the class I have most fun with and offers incredible group support. Things will change sooner than later hopefully.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

EriskRedLemur wrote: »

I think the fact that at VR levels S&B is "needed" shows how lacking 2H and Bow are frankly and shield bash is unbalanced... Temps have a lot going for us I disagree about the heals a bit, but do agree there's some balance and AoE issues albeit not as bad as NB. This is all bound to change and balance issued just be patient; even if there's more struggle than DK or Sorc's at vr+ levels it's still the class I have most fun with and offers incredible group support. Things will change sooner than later hopefully.

I enjoy the class, I would quit the game before I re-roll, I been a Paladin type class for 12 years, and you are right I am sure they will balance things over time, I just wanted to share what I think is holding the class back in hopes that they might take some of my input to heart, maybe not to the letter but Ideals of my struggle with the class this far.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Yeah I'm done with this crap, I just got off a second ago *** off because I was fighting a world boss and all my heals went to a "GOD DAM NPC" that was tied up as a hostage, like WTF, Templar's have no healing at all worth a dam, healing is unless you are soloing in the middle of a no where, anyone who says other wise is a god dam troll nothing more because our instant heal is junk, our cast heal is junk, this class needs a major fix, good luck guys and sorry for my rant but I cant talk it anymore.

idk

Every single heal went to the NPC? I would suggest a respec, maybe read up on some builds people are working with. I have yet to see an all out failure of the Templar heals like this.

tplink3r1

90% of my heals in pvp goes to someone else, this needs to be "fixed", i cant keep myself alive in large battles thanks to this broken mechanic.

Mephiston87

The templar ardent spear tree needs a complete rework, its an extremely soft melee tree. Namely the abilities dont get stronger as you level, my jabs is doing the same damage at vet 6 as it was at lvl 50, groups of 3 are definately getting harder to kill now requiring a whole mana bar of jabs+stamina bar of shield bash, and with templar having little to no way of regaining resources quickly its a very slow progress through quests since you need to wait 30sec between each group.

Thats the main problem im having but the whole 3 skill lines are littered with useless abilities like radial sweep, sunshield, eclipse etc. all of which are extremely expensive resource wise but offer next to no benefits. Only one of the dawns wrath passives are to actually help the dawns wrath tree.

Also the heals have a preferance in pvp/groups you will see them shoot off everywhere except yourself.

The templar tree's have next to no resource management, other then 1 or 2 snares no CC's, no effective AOE, next to no decent length self/group buffs and no escape abilities. Oppinions may differ but im vet 6 and this is how im feeling about the class, i have done plenty of PVP and i have gotten every single skill in the Templar tree's past theyr morphs just to test and see how they go.

tplink3r1

Mephiston87 wrote: »

The templar tree's have next to no resource management, other then 1 or 2 snares no CC's, no effective AOE, next to no self/group buffs and no escape abilities. Oppinions may differ but im vet 6 and this is how im feeling about the class, i have done plenty of PVP and i have gotten every single skill in the Templar tree's past theyr morphs just to test and see how they go.

and the only snare we have (vampire's bane and the other morph) is getting its duration nerfed...
theres no way to kill group of mobs without 1h/s in VR10, i have to keep blocking/self healing 90% of the time.

Mephiston87

nerfing our one effective CC is just plain stupidity when we have nothing else. Honestly really wishing i had of started with a DK/sorceror they get everything templars lack and everything templars need in one class. CC, damage, a form of self heal, decent/good resource management, good passives, good survivability/escapes and both have good ultimates.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Today is not my day, I caved in and started a new character from level 1, but check this crap out, I get him to level 5 and I then delete this new character because his nose was too big and it bugged the hell out of me, but I FORGOT to deposit my GOLD OMG, I deleted 19,060 gold (all the gold I owned), I put in a ticket lets hope they get back to me and refund my gold, today was a very bad day for me in ESO : (

Nox_Aeterna

Mephiston87 wrote: »

nerfing our one effective CC is just plain stupidity when we have nothing else. Honestly really wishing i had of started with a DK/sorceror they get everything templars lack and everything templars need in one class. CC, damage, a form of self heal, decent/good resource management, good passives, good survivability/escapes and both have good ultimates.

While that might be an exaggeration , there are points in which you are right.

Reason ic less and less reason to play everyday , there is no point in lvling my main at all , but i dont have the patience to lvl an alt all the way up to veteran again.

When im doing my best to win a resonable fight , and i see a DK owning 3x that barely taking damage , i kind just give up and go play something else.

I hope zen balances this game soon , cause my patience to wait till this stops has a limit.

SamAkira

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Mephiston87 wrote: »

theres no way to kill group of mobs without 1h/s in VR10, i have to keep blocking/self healing 90% of the time.

Blazing Spear - Volcanic Rune - Impulse = Dead group of Mobs

Nidwin

It's a fact that we aren't that great for solo PVE but for me it's working as intended. Last thing we need is to have a dps WP's DoK's pandora box.

DK -> tank
NB -> best mdps
Sorc -> best rdps
Templar -> healzz, support

Now it's possible to make hybrid builds but we certainly don't want to see a Templar being able to tank like a full tanked specced DK, putting Sorc/NB dps out, healing like a real Templar and being able to range cc like a Sorc, all in one. For this kind of crap there's -> Vampire bite.

The problem with the DK is that his dps is way to high compared to his ability to tank/survive.

As for the Templar once in Cyrodiil and having nothing for him/her

1. Best direct heals and doesn't require a weapon so can be slotted anywhere, anyhow.
2. 30% aoe 8s damage debuff with Nova. (ult)
3. 30% aoe 6s heal debuff with Dark Flare
4. Free spamable "pounce" (not even requiring a Lion) with Charge, whatever morph, as escape.
5. Radiant Aura, 80% health and stamina regen for thar bros and sistas
6. Cleanse making purge remove all thar nastiness. (bye bye Dot's build, NERF Magus attitude), spamable

For this and much more I'm more than ready to "Slacker" a bit in PVE, solo. Worst case I just wait for someone to show up to tag along or ask to group up for some big ugly nasty bosses.

UrielX

Nidwin wrote: »

As for the Templar once in Cyrodiil and having nothing for him/her

1. Best direct heals and doesn't require a weapon so can be slotted anywhere, anyhow.
2. 30% aoe 8s damage debuff with Nova. (ult)
3. 30% aoe 6s heal debuff with Dark Flare
4. Free spamable "pounce" (not even requiring a Lion) with Charge, whatever morph, as escape.
5. Radiant Aura, 80% health and stamina regen for thar bros and sistas
6. Cleanse making purge remove all thar nastiness. (bye bye Dot's build, NERF Magus attitude), spamable

For this and much more I'm more than ready to "Slacker" a bit in PVE, solo. Worst case I just wait for someone to show up to tag along or ask to group up for some big ugly nasty bosses.

You're right, we do have the best burst heals out there... but honestly we still need to use a resto staff because it's one of the only ways to regain magika. Even stacking cost reduction our heals take out swaths of the mana bar.

Not sure how you can use charge as an escape skill? I haven't used it in a while, but you can't charge at nothing can you?

As far as the OP I feel like I agree. It seems like a lot of our DPS abilities don't scale very well at all. I use ritual of rebirth while soloing, so I can't say I've ever had the problem of it healing others.

I'd say probably the biggest problem I'm running into in vet content is our lack of any type of effective CC. I've tried using blinding flashes, it's meh at best. Javelin isn't too effecive for CC either. I find that power bash is the most effective, but it just plain fails a good amount of time (they don't stay stunned even when not damaged).

Nidwin

UrielX wrote: »

Not sure how you can use charge as an escape skill? I haven't used it in a while, but you can't charge at nothing can you?

Only in RvR and pointless in PVE of course.
It's the Warhammer's White Lion's Pounce ability. You use an enemy to get out of range of what's beating on you. Very efficient once you're used to it and an amazing ability for a healer to have.

UrielX wrote: »

I'd say probably the biggest problem I'm running into in vet content is our lack of any type of effective CC. I've tried using blinding flashes, it's meh at best. Javelin isn't too effecive for CC either. I find that power bash is the most effective, but it just plain fails a good amount of time (they don't stay stunned even when not damaged).

Our CC isn't that great for sure but we can't have it all I presume. Of course that's a little bit annoying for solo context.

reggielee

many a time my heals went to bloody npcs or some dude way over in the corner that i wasnt even fighting with

UrielX

Nidwin wrote: »

UrielX wrote: »

Not sure how you can use charge as an escape skill? I haven't used it in a while, but you can't charge at nothing can you?

Only in RvR and pointless in PVE of course.
It's the Warhammer's White Lion's Pounce ability. You use an enemy to get out of range of what's beating on you. Very efficient once you're used to it and an amazing ability for a healer to have.

UrielX wrote: »

I'd say probably the biggest problem I'm running into in vet content is our lack of any type of effective CC. I've tried using blinding flashes, it's meh at best. Javelin isn't too effecive for CC either. I find that power bash is the most effective, but it just plain fails a good amount of time (they don't stay stunned even when not damaged).

Our CC isn't that great for sure but we can't have it all I presume. Of course that's a little bit annoying for solo context.

Oh ok!
Leapfrogging out of harms way. Honestly in PvP I'm usually running a full support bar but I'll have to give that a try.

Looking at some of the other templar threads people are saying volcanic rune from the mages guild line is a pretty decent aoe CC. It's not something I've tried, but it's worth a shot.

Ravinsild

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

Yeah I'm done with this crap, I just got off a second ago *** off because I was fighting a world boss and all my heals went to a "GOD DAM NPC" that was tied up as a hostage, like WTF, Templar's have no healing at all worth a dam, healing is unless you are soloing in the middle of a no where, anyone who says other wise is a god dam troll nothing more because our instant heal is junk, our cast heal is junk, this class needs a major fix, good luck guys and sorry for my rant but I cant talk it anymore.

You weren't, by chance, doing the Argonian quest in swamp where you have to drink poison and then fight a really strong person, were you?

My heals did this exact same thing during this quest, and like you, it pissed me off BAD.

malais

Here is where I see the problem.

Templars are healers meant and bred to be from the start. At v1 with crap hear I can get 7 casts of breath of life before I run out of mana in pvp. A couple strong resto staff attacks and my regen (capped 89 btw) I can get a couple more.

This means as a Templar I can heal 21 players for ton of hp in under 10 seconds. This negates most burst AOEs used on pvp. This is where the Templar shines.

To do this I have a mana battery build with capped regen and capped pool along with all the cost reduction I can find.

To pull this off I have little survivability other than my own heals and virtually no dps on my own.

This is how the Templar is designed to be played. As group heals and support. (While built around BoL I have other runes and group mitigation as well).

However the way vet content is built with phasing and whatnot being a support build really isn't possible all the time. Our class dps skills are lackluster at best when compared to other classes. Weapon skills in vet content do NOT scale to the contents level of difficulty so can not really be relied on. (Destro being the oddball that seems to).

So while the class seems to be designed around group play the content really isn't. If it were possible to level in pvp this wouldn't be such a glaring issue. But as it is a Templar is forced to spam heal themselves to survive a single group pull while other classes don't have to. Making is weaker as a solo class when standing alongside the DKs and sorcs of the world.

I have shelved my Templar until zos realizes this and gives us 1 solo friendly pve build. I would even be happy if this redesign took away from our heals to get higher dps while using it. Ie like the battle bard thing from lotro.

Thechemicals

Templars kick ass. Havent had any problems with them. Im only lvl 45 though, but its been easy so far. Even pvp is a cynch.