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PTS Update 42 - Feedback Thread for Scribing (Combat & Skills)
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Telos_Tim✭✭✭✭SeaUnicorn wrote: »
You could run on less then soft cap in PVE in places like vAS for example. You only need resists when Olms swipes and jumps and for occasional Llothis cone. So you get some nice semi-spammable DPS skill and tank butt naked in glass cannon build doing 70k+ DPS as MT33,000 resistance is the cap on how much damage you can prevent, meaning, when you have all of your heavy armor on that’s required due to the amazing tank passives you get from it, and combine your additional resistance from the Balanced Warrior passive… the class mastery will ONLY apply a 50% snare to you, with no benefit whatsoever.
You mean every other second? Olms basic attacks kill you in cap resistance if you drop block, which you will if you’re in light armor with their uniquely horrible tanking passives…
Not to mention, there are already options available in the game to tank in medium armor, that are both better and more efficient than using our Class Mastery, you have the Esoteric Environment Greaves that tack on 50% mitigation at the cost of stam, something that someone wearing medium armor would have no problem sparing.
On my friend’s PvP build, using 3 damage sets, they sit at 33k resistance buffed with a 3 heavy, 3 medium, 1 light setup using all protective jewelry on their defending dual wield bar, here’s their front bar sitting at 31k, easily…
Resistance is so easily sourced, this mastery provides nothing new, or impactful in PvE.Edited by Telos_Tim on April 22, 2024 6:27PM2 -
SeaUnicorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Buff is 4s, so you cast it every 3rd or 4th skill as a semi-spammable. Just like Stagger or Talons or Clench (when it was primary source of minor brittle back in the olden days).You mean every other second? Olms light attacks eat 90% of your health bar in cap resistance if you drop block, which you will if you’re in light armor with their uniquely horrible tanking passives…0 -
DerpyBossGamer✭✭✭Speaking from a PvP perspective, oblivion damage has absolutely no place being accessible on a spammable ability, let alone an ability at all. Due to the nature of oblivion damage ignoring all mitigation including blocking, damage shields, battle spirit, etc, it has been an extremely rare damage type thus far. Every source of oblivion damage we have had so far (Damage Health glyph, Sload's Semblance, Knight Slayer) is niche enough that it can be utilized but is outclassed unless built around.
However, Wield Soul and Soul Burst both offer the ability to deal Oblivion damage with a spammable skill, and in the case specifically of Wield Soul, has no downside. Wield Soul is a spammable that deals more damage than any other spammable because of the oblivion damage, while also having a major buff or debut attached to it. Additionally, the oblivion damage--which is already too strong to be put on a skill--has execute scaling, allowing it to practically guarantee death to anyone under 30% hp. In duels against friends I have hit upwards of 8 thousand oblivion damage, and that is in addition to the damage of the spammable and any status effects caused, on a build that is almost entirely a tank.
I do like the idea of a skill consuming soul gems, but dealing oblivion damage removes any semblance of balance this script could have. It should not go live with the option of dealing oblivion damage at all, and even then the skill is absolutely loaded with the ability to grant yourself Major Vitality or having 100% Major Defile uptime off of a spammable.@TheFirstArcanistMain - PC/NA but PTS main5 -
Telos_Tim✭✭✭✭SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Buff is 4s, so you cast it every 3rd or 4th skill as a semi-spammable. Just like Stagger or Talons or Clench (when it was primary source of minor brittle back in the olden days).You mean every other second? Olms light attacks eat 90% of your health bar in cap resistance if you drop block, which you will if you’re in light armor with their uniquely horrible tanking passives…
Yeah, I know, I tested the Class Mastery extensively on PTS, with all kinds of builds. When I say that it’s going to be a massive problem for PvP, and a major failure for PvE, it’s not speculation.
As far as “every other second” I was referring to how frequently Olms throws a Swipe your way when tanking him. I just hopped on my Sorc tank at 50k health thanks to their new passive from last patch, with cap resistance and he one-shot me with a light attack without my block up.
Edited by Telos_Tim on April 22, 2024 6:45PM2 -
DerpyBossGamer wrote: »Speaking from a PvP perspective, oblivion damage has absolutely no place being accessible on a spammable ability, let alone an ability at all. Due to the nature of oblivion damage ignoring all mitigation including blocking, damage shields, battle spirit, etc, it has been an extremely rare damage type thus far. Every source of oblivion damage we have had so far (Damage Health glyph, Sload's Semblance, Knight Slayer) is niche enough that it can be utilized but is outclassed unless built around. .
what if it had a trade off? something like you take the same amount of oblivion damage dealt so you have to be VERY careful when you cast1 -
verminjerky✭✭✭Nobody uses Templar for tanking because it’s horrible at it, not for a lack of want.
As far as the Mastery, if you’re talking about PvP, this passive benefits not only tanks, but every spec of the class… and too much at that.
For PvE, this does not help tanks at all.
33,000 resistance is the cap on how much damage you can prevent, meaning, when you have all of your heavy armor on that’s required due to the amazing tank passives you get from it, and combine your additional resistance from the Balanced Warrior passive… the class mastery will ONLY apply a 50% snare to you, with no benefit whatsoever.
You can not resist any more damage by pushing your resistance higher than 33,000 and you’re going to be over that with Major Resolve, and that’s without the Mastery.
So then you agree, it's not good and should be changed. 👍1 -
Telos_Tim✭✭✭✭verminjerky wrote: »Nobody uses Templar for tanking because it’s horrible at it, not for a lack of want.
As far as the Mastery, if you’re talking about PvP, this passive benefits not only tanks, but every spec of the class… and too much at that.
For PvE, this does not help tanks at all.
33,000 resistance is the cap on how much damage you can prevent, meaning, when you have all of your heavy armor on that’s required due to the amazing tank passives you get from it, and combine your additional resistance from the Balanced Warrior passive… the class mastery will ONLY apply a 50% snare to you, with no benefit whatsoever.
You can not resist any more damage by pushing your resistance higher than 33,000 and you’re going to be over that with Major Resolve, and that’s without the Mastery.
So then you agree, it's not good and should be changed. 👍
100% this is the worst thing Templar has seen since Battle Spirit hit Sun Shield.
They might aswell just erase every other option for your second script on Templar, at least for PvP.Edited by Telos_Tim on April 22, 2024 7:06PM1 -
Unified_Gaming✭✭✭✭CordingOnyx wrote: »DerpyBossGamer wrote: »Speaking from a PvP perspective, oblivion damage has absolutely no place being accessible on a spammable ability, let alone an ability at all. Due to the nature of oblivion damage ignoring all mitigation including blocking, damage shields, battle spirit, etc, it has been an extremely rare damage type thus far. Every source of oblivion damage we have had so far (Damage Health glyph, Sload's Semblance, Knight Slayer) is niche enough that it can be utilized but is outclassed unless built around. .
what if it had a trade off? something like you take the same amount of oblivion damage dealt so you have to be VERY careful when you cast
I think the issue is that your spamable can execute so you use it when above 50% hp and still use it when below 50% hp.
Many people seem to forget the scaling on some executes like radiant glory or executioner/killer's blade. Executioner can easily get a 5k tool tip but has up to 400% more damage meaning it is 5k + up to 20k (0% hp) for a total effective tool tip of 25k of at 0% hp. If the target is at 25% hp you'd still get 200% BONUS damage so the initial 5k + 10k bonus making this skill have an effective tool tip of 15k. 15k in pvp would be 7.5k damage which is reduced by armour so often landing for around 5k non crits. If it crits you can get 8k+ crits with this skill. All of this damage can crit and does not have a cooldown on the execute scaling damage.
When you compare it to the wield soul spamable you get this. 10k tool tip + oblivion damage every 3 seconds with scaling execute. The oblivion damage can't crit so is always a flat value - this is very important to factor in. As such, if a target has 30k hp - this means you get 2.4k oblivion damage every 3 seconds on top of your spamable that can't crit. If you land that 10k tool tip, it gets halved by battle spirit (5k) then reduced by armour so often lands for around 3k. When you add in the oblivion damage it is doing 5.4k every 3 seconds with 3k for the other 2 seconds. When below 50% health that scaling increases up to 5.8k oblivion damage (0% hp) which can not crit whilst the spamable remains the same 3k and can crit. In the same example at 25% hp your spamable would hit for 3k plus you get 50% bonus on the oblivion making it 3.6k oblivion damage. The total is 6.6k damage. This however is on a 3 second cooldown whereas executioner can be spammed without any cooldown penalty. If you land a crit, your spamable could crit and hit for around 4.2k with 3.6k oblivion damage for a total of 7.8k crit, This crit is similar to executioner's crit (actually lower) but can't be spammed like executioner or killer's blade can be.
As such, I don't think the issue is the execute scaling or oblivion damage but it applies above 50% hp. If they made it only apply the oblivion damage when below 50% hp it would be pretty balanced.
Alternatively, I'd like them to make this a true execute.
"Reduces the initial damage by 40% but now consumes soul gems to deal up to 400% additional magic when the target is below 50% hp." This would make it work as a true execute.
What do you think of my suggestion?
Edited by Unified_Gaming on April 22, 2024 7:26PMUnified Gaming - creating a shared and Unified Gaming community.
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Unified_Gaming wrote: »As such, I don't think the issue is the execute scaling or oblivion damage but it applies above 50% hp. If they made it only apply the oblivion damage when below 50% hp it would be pretty balanced.
Alternatively, I'd like them to make this a true execute.
"Reduces the initial damage by 40% but now consumes soul gems to deal up to 400% additional magic when the target is below 50% hp." This would make it work as a true execute.
What do you think of my suggestion?
huh, i actually dont hate that... maybe the 400% is a bit much since it that would make it do 8% more damage per 1% health under 50%. maybe 100% ~ 150% so it doesn't replace class executes but it a decent stand in if a class doesn't have one.1 -
DerpyBossGamer✭✭✭CordingOnyx wrote: »DerpyBossGamer wrote: »Speaking from a PvP perspective, oblivion damage has absolutely no place being accessible on a spammable ability, let alone an ability at all. Due to the nature of oblivion damage ignoring all mitigation including blocking, damage shields, battle spirit, etc, it has been an extremely rare damage type thus far. Every source of oblivion damage we have had so far (Damage Health glyph, Sload's Semblance, Knight Slayer) is niche enough that it can be utilized but is outclassed unless built around. .
what if it had a trade off? something like you take the same amount of oblivion damage dealt so you have to be VERY careful when you cast
I think that'd be an interesting option, however I can see that worsening the meta I'm seeing develop on the PTS. People are able to build full tank with as many sources of oblivion damage as they can stack, and since they don't scale on any offensive stats you lose nothing for building as a tank. Then any opponent who isn't using pure damage that is based on the opponent's max hp can barely scratch them while taking insane damage, while people using oblivion damage either end up stalemating or some person dies after a while. Not only would this push the meta even further into building tanks, it makes it nearly impossible to compete for people who won't buy Gold Road and have access to this easy source of oblivion damage.@TheFirstArcanistMain - PC/NA but PTS main2 -
Unified_Gaming✭✭✭✭CordingOnyx wrote: »Unified_Gaming wrote: »As such, I don't think the issue is the execute scaling or oblivion damage but it applies above 50% hp. If they made it only apply the oblivion damage when below 50% hp it would be pretty balanced.
Alternatively, I'd like them to make this a true execute.
"Reduces the initial damage by 40% but now consumes soul gems to deal up to 400% additional magic when the target is below 50% hp." This would make it work as a true execute.
What do you think of my suggestion?
huh, i actually dont hate that... maybe the 400% is a bit much since it that would make it do 8% more damage per 1% health under 50%. maybe 100% ~ 150% so it doesn't replace class executes but it a decent stand in if a class doesn't have one.
Thanks!
I chose 400% simply because it was the same as executioner. Radiant Oppression is up to 500% if I recall and is ranged which can easily hit 12k-15k tool tips. It isn't uncommon to get hit for 8k a tick from the beam and a full channel hitting for over 20k+ damage when you're low.
I think the point is that changing it to magic damage so that it doesn't bypass armour and can't be abused by tank builds vs other players - something oblivion damage can be given it is a flat value - would be best. The % bonus on the execute needs to scale from 50% hp down to 0% but as to how much bonus you get can be tweaked. I felt 400% felt reasonable to be in line with executioner.
As for replacing class executes - executioner is a 2h skill. I think you are right in you don't want to replace them but by slashing that initial hit by 60% (10k spamable becomes 4k execute) is still less than executioner which often gets 4.7-6k+ tool tips when the builds spamable is around 10k. You could decrease the 400% to 350% or 300% but it needs to be worthwhile or it won't be used over weapon executes unless mag.Edited by Unified_Gaming on April 22, 2024 8:54PMUnified Gaming - creating a shared and Unified Gaming community.
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BoloBoffin✭✭✭✭✭A piece of feedback I didn't see on quickly scanning through: the various items I could buy from the script vendor, I couldn't use. Whenever I tried to activate them from my inventory, I got the message that I needed to own the Scribing system.
I got that same message initially when trying to access the Scribotorium, but the next day I was able to get in and start doing the questing. I was hoping that would be the case for these items as well, but no.
I ride in a zerg ball of one.0 -
Alaztor91✭✭✭✭✭Are you aware that Grave Lord's Sacrifice forces you into using Flame Skull? That means no Scribing spammables if you are using that morph. This is a morph that replaced a 5+years old one and was introduced with U41.
Why was GLS designed in such a way if you already knew that Scribing would introduce new spammables to the game?10 -
huskandhunger✭✭✭✭For werewolf I would like to suggest claws of life heal be independent from the damage portion and instead heal a flat amount per second, perhaps 2000/second.2 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭Are you aware that Grave Lord's Sacrifice forces you into using Flame Skull? That means no Scribing spammables if you are using that morph. This is a morph that replaced a 5+years old one and was introduced with U41.
Why was GLS designed in such a way if you already knew that Scribing would introduce new spammables to the game?
Good question. Not expecting it to ever get answered though.3 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭I feel like the knockback ability is only going to be used to troll. The range on it is insane and you can knock people out of keeps with it. For instance, if you are outside a keep, you can knock people off outer wall and if you are on outer wall, you can knock people off inner wall. I imagine the outrage when it hits live is going to be insane from people who sit on siege from safety. To add to this, it also makes sitting on a ram impossible. Sieging as well as counter sieging becomes an issue. It is the only AOE displacement CC that can also be used from different heights, allowing people to massively displace groups from safety. I have also tested and if you are on the inner wall of a keep, you can use it to knock someone off the outer wall
even from inner 3rd floor. I don't think this should be intended at all. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Just making you guys aware beforehand.1 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
I slot it for the high dmg of course but 1. It's such a boring skill (even with the new styling option; I didn't realize the base skill even had a color as it's barely visible), 2. Hate that it's static and placed at your location. Maybe it would be OP if throwable like caltrops, or enemy-targeted like Fulminating Rune, idk.0 -
Telos_Tim✭✭✭✭Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
No, all of the damage-over-time, and healing-over-time scripts attached to the skills are extremely small values, to the point where they are mostly useless.
Honestly I would like to see it changed, especially for my Necromancer that has the now two as of last patch, damage increases to DoTs.1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
No, all of the damage-over-time, and healing-over-time scripts attached to the skills are extremely small values, to the point where they are mostly useless.
Honestly I would like to see it changed, especially for my Necromancer that has the now two as of last patch, damage increases to DoTs.
with the exception of travelling knife, scribing skills don't do enough damage.
I think they are so concerned about messing up balance they the whole thing is going to be seriously underwhelming. Yet another missed opportunityEdited by Tannus15 on April 23, 2024 9:17PM6 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
No, all of the damage-over-time, and healing-over-time scripts attached to the skills are extremely small values, to the point where they are mostly useless.
Honestly I would like to see it changed, especially for my Necromancer that has the now two as of last patch, damage increases to DoTs.
with the exception of travelling knife, scribing skills don't do enough damage.
I think they are so concerned about messing up balance they the whole thing is going to be seriously underwhelming. Yet another missed opportunity
No because if they did too much damage it would become scribing online.... it has to be balanced in such a way that scribing can potentially fill gaps for playstyle, but without being an outright better option than other things.5 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
No, all of the damage-over-time, and healing-over-time scripts attached to the skills are extremely small values, to the point where they are mostly useless.
Honestly I would like to see it changed, especially for my Necromancer that has the now two as of last patch, damage increases to DoTs.
with the exception of travelling knife, scribing skills don't do enough damage.
I think they are so concerned about messing up balance they the whole thing is going to be seriously underwhelming. Yet another missed opportunity
No because if they did too much damage it would become scribing online.... it has to be balanced in such a way that scribing can potentially fill gaps for playstyle, but without being an outright better option than other things.
The key word here is "too much"
They went to all this trouble to work out how much damage a spammable should dot and how much a dot should do, and then they made scribing do less than that.
It makes no sense.
Also, why not? Why can't he new thing be as good or even *gasp* better than the old thing.
This kind of mentality means that nothing good can ever be added because then people might use it.Edited by Tannus15 on April 23, 2024 10:21PM5 -
MoonPile✭✭✭✭Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
No, all of the damage-over-time, and healing-over-time scripts attached to the skills are extremely small values, to the point where they are mostly useless.
Honestly I would like to see it changed, especially for my Necromancer that has the now two as of last patch, damage increases to DoTs.
with the exception of travelling knife, scribing skills don't do enough damage.
I think they are so concerned about messing up balance they the whole thing is going to be seriously underwhelming. Yet another missed opportunity
Thanks, all who answered
That's a shame. When they said "fill in the gaps" I hoped there could be something just as strong, so that, e.g., if someone like me just doesn't like a skill, we can replace it with an equivalent one.
(Maybe the issue then would be is that some people would slot both? But then surely there could be other mitigations to that, like getting / not getting a bonus, or whatever.)1 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:
Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?
I slot it for the high dmg of course but 1. It's such a boring skill (even with the new styling option; I didn't realize the base skill even had a color as it's barely visible), 2. Hate that it's static and placed at your location. Maybe it would be OP if throwable like caltrops, or enemy-targeted like Fulminating Rune, idk.
They won't function well as a DoT, but some of the skills can get minor forceAdd a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
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Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The more I look at this the more depressed I get.
The numbers don't work. I'll give you the simple run down of scribing as a DPS.
Unless you need a specific buff from a scribing ability, do NOT use them.
If you can get the buff from any other source, you're better off doing that.
Scribing abilities are LITERALLY the worst option, the option of last resort.
I'm sorry, but there it is.10 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭verminjerky wrote: »As a Templar DPS main, I don't like the Templar class mastery.Activate Light Weaver for 4 seconds, increasing your Armor by 33k and snaring you by 50%. If you are at 50% or less Health, gain 1 Ultimate.
I appreciate that ZOS is trying to give some tanking stuff to a class that's not used for tanking but... nobody uses Templar for tanking. This feels like a more appropriate class mastery for a well-used tank class like DK, which also synergizes with DK's incredibly strong ultimates and ultimate-based passive. (Templar doesn't even have a tanking ult.)
It's also the only class mastery with a downside. 😩 Why did ZOS stop loving Templar?
It would be okay without that massive snare, Templar is long known for its survivability, especially relative to being a melee class, so adding more of that back into the game is not unwelcome. But this class mastery should be aimed at, or at least usable by, DPS and healers, who won't benefit from it without mobility.
I keep seeing "This would be great for tanking... nobody uses the Templar for tanking..."
Maybe ZOS is trying to give Templars better tools to tank? If ZOS keeps feeding Templars non-tanking skills... then Templars are never going to tank.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
Telos_Tim✭✭✭✭
@Savos_Sarenverminjerky wrote: »As a Templar DPS main, I don't like the Templar class mastery.Activate Light Weaver for 4 seconds, increasing your Armor by 33k and snaring you by 50%. If you are at 50% or less Health, gain 1 Ultimate.
I appreciate that ZOS is trying to give some tanking stuff to a class that's not used for tanking but... nobody uses Templar for tanking. This feels like a more appropriate class mastery for a well-used tank class like DK, which also synergizes with DK's incredibly strong ultimates and ultimate-based passive. (Templar doesn't even have a tanking ult.)
It's also the only class mastery with a downside. 😩 Why did ZOS stop loving Templar?
It would be okay without that massive snare, Templar is long known for its survivability, especially relative to being a melee class, so adding more of that back into the game is not unwelcome. But this class mastery should be aimed at, or at least usable by, DPS and healers, who won't benefit from it without mobility.
Nobody uses Templar for tanking because it’s horrible at it, not for a lack of want.
As far as the Mastery, if you’re talking about PvP, this passive benefits not only tanks, but every spec of the class… and too much at that.
For PvE, this does not help tanks at all.
33,000 resistance is the cap on how much damage you can prevent, meaning, when you have all of your heavy armor on that’s required due to the amazing tank passives you get from it, and combine your additional resistance from the Balanced Warrior passive… the class mastery will ONLY apply a 50% snare to you, with no benefit whatsoever.
You can not resist any more damage by pushing your resistance higher than 33,000 and you’re going to be over that with Major Resolve, and that’s without the Mastery.Edited by Telos_Tim on April 24, 2024 4:02PM0 -
nwilliams2107b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Apologies for question, can’t get on to test, do class passives buff the scribed skills damage? So if I slotted a skill on my Sorc all shock damage, does it benefit from 5% passive buff?0
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nwilliams2107b16_ESO wrote: »Apologies for question, can’t get on to test, do class passives buff the scribed skills damage? So if I slotted a skill on my Sorc all shock damage, does it benefit from 5% passive buff?
yes. likewise the mage guild grimoire benefits from the mage guild passives, so we end up with awesome things like 5.6s durations2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nwilliams2107b16_ESO wrote: »Apologies for question, can’t get on to test, do class passives buff the scribed skills damage? So if I slotted a skill on my Sorc all shock damage, does it benefit from 5% passive buff?
yes. likewise the mage guild grimoire benefits from the mage guild passives, so we end up with awesome things like 5.6s durations
That one is bugged right now, 20% of 5s, should be 6s not the 5.8s you find in game. Contingency is missing 1 tick for the dot as a result.PC Beta - 1900+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1
