People queuing as healers but aren't.

KerinKor · May 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

So to say no class has anything remotely like real healing capability is disingenuous. The only thing is you can't heal specific people, that's the only argument to be had.

Q.E.D.

Spamming HoTS because you can't focus healing on the tank, having no worthwhile status removal and having to spam the one you have, having no spells to use to try to protect against debuffs, magic attacks, etc. doesn't in my book, make a 'real' MMO healer.

Hell, GW2 even without any attempt to be 'trinity' based has far better 'healer' roles than ESO.

traigusb14_ESO2 · May 2014

The definitions are loose and the gameplay has options.

I get crap all the time because my 46 temp (with maxed out heal line, plus some other useful passives) doesn't also have resto.

If the group isn't full of idiots, I heal fine People still think it is a different MMO and a lot of tanks just try to soak ALL the damage. Nobody has the mana to heal that.

It is the same problem we had playing The Secret World so many possible builds, that it was hard to synch up with other random people unless everyone used "stock" builds.

I've healed all sorts of good and bad groups. Sometimes it takes a few mins to talk about what everyone is bringing and to mix up the bars a little (this is why friends/ guild groups will always work better).

Certain heals work better with certain tanking builds, (not all good tanks are sword and board BTW) hell even your secondary spells are important. Set up which players should activate combo spells. My temp often has Blazing Spear slotted on my second bar, because it is AOE, stuns, and can return STAM to a player. Often in groups that STAM may be reserved for the Tank (and everyone needs to know that). Keeping the tank in STAM is often as important as keeping his health up, especially if he's using mitigation skills.

Even in my 40s I have run into players that don't block, dodge, or slot/use defensive skills. Not just tanks either, cuz if I had 10 gp for every DPS soloing a random mob that gets peeled off the tank (usually no big deal) and using half my mana because of not avoiding damage, I could buy 7 horses.

I've never had any luck with the group finder. 95% of the time I end up in a group marked with everyone as DPS (I usually go through a dungeon as DPS to learn fights before I list as a healer). These groups often work out, because people will say "Well I got this, and if you got this other things, we can..." and a weird DPS CC heavy group is born, One of my favorite groups ever was 3 tanks (all of them were listing DPS to learn dungeon too). They split tank the crap out of everything and I mostly did AOE DPS and light heals.

VR may be trickier, but walking in with 'A tank is only X and a healer is only Y" (again assuming that have SOME level appropriate skills) May not be the best way to manage a group at that level either.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

Since any class can fill any role, skill anything cept others class skills and have any gear there is no way they can code into the lfg tool to make sure you actually can heal like it is in some other mmo games.

True, but they have to invest skill points into the various skills before they can claim to be that role.

For a healer investing in Restoration staff skills and passives is a bare minimum.
Investing in the Dauntless Skill line helps, especially with the likes of blood altar. A Templar has healing skills, plus passives for it.

Ideally a healer should have heavy investment in skills and passives of Resto staff and Dauntless skill lines and if possible be a Templar. Other passives and skill lines help too.

Rial · May 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

Please define what a 'healer' is in a game without any real healers and everyone has some self-heal ability?

This isn't a 'trinity' game, the usual rules don't apply. No class in ESO has anything remotely like a real 'healing' capability .. the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.

Actually, this IS a trinity game, as ZOS have stated many times. Sure, it is possible to stray fromt he trinity, but you'll get problems in VR content.

Cogo · May 2014

DakotaCoty wrote: »

This is becoming an increasing issue...

Today I've had 2 people come in, assuming they are actual healers when in fact they are not. Isn't there anything to do about this as me and my friend have had to boycott our dungeon groups because they are the leader?..

I don't know if it happens to anyone else, but it's extremely annoying to face this issue at say, midnight-2am when no one is online and some troll queues for healer and they aren't one.

/Sigh

This is actually a problem. So how can we deal with it? Not just healers....some players "think" they can tank just cause they have a shield *chuckle*

Can you kick people from a party and sign up for a new healer?
Maybe in time, these people get recognized and simply dont get groups at all = problem solved.

Dont underestimate ESO community. Its growing and guildleaders are talking to eachother.

I guess the best way is to team with people you know, or met who you know can heal/attack/tank/steal chests.

Cogo · May 2014

This might sound like a stupid idea and feel free to flame me for it.
But how about Zenimax adds another type of ignore button. Not ignore, but "fake player" *Not trusted". These list helps to remember who does crappy things to others.....which I have to say isnt always illigal in ESO.

BUT, a community is a powerful things. I remember in Everquest when high end raiders ebayed....then came back and applied (was the buyer). Not only got the person a big laughing no......posts on server forum about the person and communication between guilds.

These people had to switch servers or play a new char, lol.

Cogo · May 2014

Branbran wrote: »

These people are the worst. Queueing up for a role you are not prepared to fulfill is just wasting everyone's time and money.

When I was leveling up Templar my second bar was very heal focused but I always only queued up as DPS because that's what I wanted to do. And more often than not I had to pick up the slack because the "healer" was totally new/incompetent and probably didn't even pick up the passives on their Restoration line.

Fake healers are so annoying.

Isnt this a "WoW" trait? Morons who que for LFR as tanks, but changes to dps when they get in, just to get a faster que. No brains at all who should tank! lol!

Jade1986 · May 2014

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

The definitions are loose and the gameplay has options.

I get crap all the time because my 46 temp (with maxed out heal line, plus some other useful passives) doesn't also have resto.

If the group isn't full of idiots, I heal fine People still think it is a different MMO and a lot of tanks just try to soak ALL the damage. Nobody has the mana to heal that.

It is the same problem we had playing The Secret World so many possible builds, that it was hard to synch up with other random people unless everyone used "stock" builds.

I've healed all sorts of good and bad groups. Sometimes it takes a few mins to talk about what everyone is bringing and to mix up the bars a little (this is why friends/ guild groups will always work better).

Certain heals work better with certain tanking builds, (not all good tanks are sword and board BTW) hell even your secondary spells are important. Set up which players should activate combo spells. My temp often has Blazing Spear slotted on my second bar, because it is AOE, stuns, and can return STAM to a player. Often in groups that STAM may be reserved for the Tank (and everyone needs to know that). Keeping the tank in STAM is often as important as keeping his health up, especially if he's using mitigation skills.

Even in my 40s I have run into players that don't block, dodge, or slot/use defensive skills. Not just tanks either, cuz if I had 10 gp for every DPS soloing a random mob that gets peeled off the tank (usually no big deal) and using half my mana because of not avoiding damage, I could buy 7 horses.

I've never had any luck with the group finder. 95% of the time I end up in a group marked with everyone as DPS (I usually go through a dungeon as DPS to learn fights before I list as a healer). These groups often work out, because people will say "Well I got this, and if you got this other things, we can..." and a weird DPS CC heavy group is born, One of my favorite groups ever was 3 tanks (all of them were listing DPS to learn dungeon too). They split tank the crap out of everything and I mostly did AOE DPS and light heals.

VR may be trickier, but walking in with 'A tank is only X and a healer is only Y" (again assuming that have SOME level appropriate skills) May not be the best way to manage a group at that level either.

Actually if you focus on magicka rather than piling your points into health you DO have the magicka to heal like that. I do it just fine, problem is the connections are so bad right now my heals don't count and the magicka gets drained anyway.

Jade1986 · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

DakotaCoty wrote: »

This is becoming an increasing issue...

Today I've had 2 people come in, assuming they are actual healers when in fact they are not. Isn't there anything to do about this as me and my friend have had to boycott our dungeon groups because they are the leader?..

I don't know if it happens to anyone else, but it's extremely annoying to face this issue at say, midnight-2am when no one is online and some troll queues for healer and they aren't one.

/Sigh

This is actually a problem. So how can we deal with it? Not just healers....some players "think" they can tank just cause they have a shield *chuckle*

Can you kick people from a party and sign up for a new healer?
Maybe in time, these people get recognized and simply dont get groups at all = problem solved.

Dont underestimate ESO community. Its growing and guildleaders are talking to eachother.

I guess the best way is to team with people you know, or met who you know can heal/attack/tank/steal chests.

I wouldn't say the community is growing atm, tbh, its shrinking, dramatically due to the massive combat lag and inherent EU latency.

Robbiejuve · May 2014

I stopped telling tanks that they cant stand in bad at around level 30, from then on I just let them die because I realized all you need is a competent DPS to heal and any boss can be downed. You only need a tanky type player for trash pulls in this game.

Yankee · May 2014

For VR dungeon content, I would not advertise my Sorcerer as a healer, even though I have most the Resto staff skills and passives. That is for solo use and casual group content. If I were to want to heal VR stuff it would be on a Templar built for it. Because I would want to do it well.

Faking a role to get fast queues seems silly. How much fun will the run be on hard content with no heals?

Lying to more quickly get into an instance to wipe. /facepalm

That is why I will not PUG some stuff. Guilds FTW.

legiont666ub17_ESO · May 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

Please define what a 'healer' is in a game without any real healers and everyone has some self-heal ability?

This isn't a 'trinity' game, the usual rules don't apply. No class in ESO has anything remotely like a real 'healing' capability .. the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.

Healer - Someone that can heal a group of people not just themselves that's what a healer is.
Furthermore i'm pretty sure that templars have a line that is dedicated to heals and buffs.

Nooblet · May 2014

I think one thing for sure we can agree on...

When you get put into the group, it should say.. you were chosen to heal this dungeon.. or some other variation.

Because obviously it's too hard for people to communicate or know/decide what role they are assigned. Or they simply forgot they had selected healer20 levels ago.

I had heals selected from 1-V10 and didn't heal anything until V1. Although I could have.. typically there was multiple heals.

Nikkae · May 2014

ESO is somewhere in the middle. It is possible to tank and heal in this game, but there are no dedicated "tanks" and "healers.[/quote]

Wrong! I am a dedicated healer and love the healing aspect in any game. Plus it gets me in groups much faster.

ElliottXO · May 2014

NextGame wrote: »

you shouldn't be able to queue as either healer or tank unless you have skill points invested in a few skills suited for that role.

What do these people think they are going to achieve by joining a group without a healer? Are they stupid? It would just end up being wipe after wipe after wipe.

That's very easy to come by, especially in higher levels. The tooltip should rather inform you that a healer is a dedicated restoration staff user and that tanks need a shield and aggro skills.

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

The definitions are loose and the gameplay has options.

I get crap all the time because my 46 temp (with maxed out heal line, plus some other useful passives) doesn't also have resto.

If the group isn't full of idiots, I heal fine People still think it is a different MMO and a lot of tanks just try to soak ALL the damage. Nobody has the mana to heal that.

It is the same problem we had playing The Secret World so many possible builds, that it was hard to synch up with other random people unless everyone used "stock" builds.

I've healed all sorts of good and bad groups. Sometimes it takes a few mins to talk about what everyone is bringing and to mix up the bars a little (this is why friends/ guild groups will always work better).

Certain heals work better with certain tanking builds, (not all good tanks are sword and board BTW) hell even your secondary spells are important. Set up which players should activate combo spells. My temp often has Blazing Spear slotted on my second bar, because it is AOE, stuns, and can return STAM to a player. Often in groups that STAM may be reserved for the Tank (and everyone needs to know that). Keeping the tank in STAM is often as important as keeping his health up, especially if he's using mitigation skills.

Even in my 40s I have run into players that don't block, dodge, or slot/use defensive skills. Not just tanks either, cuz if I had 10 gp for every DPS soloing a random mob that gets peeled off the tank (usually no big deal) and using half my mana because of not avoiding damage, I could buy 7 horses.

I've never had any luck with the group finder. 95% of the time I end up in a group marked with everyone as DPS (I usually go through a dungeon as DPS to learn fights before I list as a healer). These groups often work out, because people will say "Well I got this, and if you got this other things, we can..." and a weird DPS CC heavy group is born, One of my favorite groups ever was 3 tanks (all of them were listing DPS to learn dungeon too). They split tank the crap out of everything and I mostly did AOE DPS and light heals.

VR may be trickier, but walking in with 'A tank is only X and a healer is only Y" (again assuming that have SOME level appropriate skills) May not be the best way to manage a group at that level either.

And you would get crap of me.

You are putting a requirement that the common group adjusts to your uncommon built rather than adjusting your built to the common group.

Why raising the stakes of a fail by not using a resto staff?

If you don't like the resto staff, just be a DPS with off-heals.

zhevon · May 2014

The real problem is for these "group" dungeons is that at certain level-ranges there are no longer enough people to group, period. I tried both my guild and LFG last night prime time and there were 2 total for the dungeon; both dps. I will have to hang around doing nothing but LFG because I am level 15 and thats the upper LFG limit. They need expand the levels allowed for a particular dungeon signifcantly.

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

The main problem is going to be looking for healers and tanks like all mmos. I recommend playing as either so all you have to do is find another tank or healer then DPS is easy to find.

traigusb14_ESO2 · May 2014

ElliottXO wrote: »

And you would get crap of me.

You are putting a requirement that the common group adjusts to your uncommon built rather than adjusting your built to the common group.

Why raising the stakes of a fail by not using a resto staff?

If you don't like the resto staff, just be a DPS with off-heals.

No I'm saying the heals, and passives of the Temp line are just fine for healing all by themselves. I have them maxed out, plus a bunch of spell cost reductions and spell crit bonus passives from other lines (though a few heals don't seem to be critting).

If you aren't sucking I don't have to spam heals. If you are sucking, 5 more different heal buttons isn't going to help you any more than the heals I already have.

I'm also saying the best groups don't bring random skills to the table. Some heals work better with different tank abilities. Knowing if anyone is a vampire changes how you heal.

Tanks should be interested in what the DPS are doing /using too.

Everyone should care how and if their skills stack in a group, and if they don't your group is just a bunch of solo people standing near each other.

Edited: for weird Quote tags. Should look ok now.

Qutayba · May 2014

At this stage of the game - it's been out a month now - people are still learning how to heal and tank, and there are a lot of builds to experiment with. Hopefully, the OP is distinguishing between someone who is trying and failing and someone who isn't even trying. Healing and tanking is different in ESO because there aren't good targeted healing spells (although you can heal areas with good positioning - healers can't just stand in one place and spam a spell and be effective) and there aren't good aoe tanking abilities. Tanks go after the hardest hitting melee while the dps takes out the casters and ranged. Every class has healing and tanking abilities. DPS and tanks should have some self-heals slotted anyway.

I agree that someone should queue as the role they intend to play, but there are many ways to play that role and we still should be cutting people some slack for experimenting. If the group isn't viable after wiping too often, break up and try again.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

DakotaCoty wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

the total lack of a single spot heal is laughable.

So why do the roles exist then? Why not be undefined like GW2.

Because the original design for the game was modeled after WoW and that's why we have character classes to start with. They latter morphed it into the system we are playing today.

DakotaCoty · May 2014

Qutayba wrote: »

someone who isn't even trying.

Indeed...

anakaki · May 2014

The fact that a player uses resto staff doesn't make him healer, not even a hybrid healer for that matter. I use resto staff when healing, but for magicka regen. Templar class skills outshines all resto staff skills. Period.

o_0 · May 2014

anakaki wrote: »

The fact that a player uses resto staff doesn't make him healer, not even a hybrid healer for that matter. I use resto staff when healing, but for magicka regen. Templar class skills outshines all resto staff skills. Period.

Agree fully, whenever I try to explain this to anyone in game all i get is "resto staff users are real healers and HoT's are just as good as direct heals"....sigh...

ElliottXO · May 2014

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

And you would get crap of me.

You are putting a requirement that the common group adjusts to your uncommon built rather than adjusting your built to the common group.

Why raising the stakes of a fail by not using a resto staff?

If you don't like the resto staff, just be a DPS with off-heals.

No I'm saying the heals, and passives of the Temp line are just fine for healing all by themselves. I have them maxed out, plus a bunch of spell cost reductions and spell crit bonus passives from other lines (though a few heals don't seem to be critting).

If you aren't sucking I don't have to spam heals. If you are sucking, 5 more different heal buttons isn't going to help you any more than the heals I already have.

I'm also saying the best groups don't bring random skills to the table. Some heals work better with different tank abilities. Knowing if anyone is a vampire changes how you heal.

Tanks should be interested in what the DPS are doing /using too.

Everyone should care how and if their skills stack in a group, and if they don't your group is just a bunch of solo people standing near each other.

Edited: for weird Quote tags. Should look ok now.

Next time your party is laying dead in front of you, you can either start shouting "OMFG noobs stop standing in the AOE for 3 seconds", which could also be totally right.

Our you can ask yourself if you could've saved them by healing more using a resto staff, despite the fact they are a little bit slow or live in Australia with a bad ping.

And when in doubt people will always blame the most obvious, which are tanks without shield or healers without staff.

PS: I rather doubt the usefulness of those builds anyway, because you might just be forcing your party members to use their inefficient emergency heals/shields more often, possibly limiting their DPS.

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

o_0 wrote: »

anakaki wrote: »

The fact that a player uses resto staff doesn't make him healer, not even a hybrid healer for that matter. I use resto staff when healing, but for magicka regen. Templar class skills outshines all resto staff skills. Period.

Agree fully, whenever I try to explain this to anyone in game all i get is "resto staff users are real healers and HoT's are just as good as direct heals"....sigh...

You can heal heal with just the restro staff abilities. Templars are not the only healers in this game.

Templars make healing EASIER, but Sorcerers, DKs, and NBs, can all heal they just do it differently.

Long time ago Sorcerers used to proclaim they WERE the best healers in the game. The one class with ZERO healing capabilities other than what the restro staff brings.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · May 2014

By definition a healer is someone who dedicated his/her build to healing people. While some healer may do damage (bloodmage) most remains unable to deal dps on their own. Resto staff doesn't make the healer the build does.

traigusb14_ESO2 · May 2014

ElliottXO wrote: »

Next time your party is laying dead in front of you, you can either start shouting "OMFG noobs stop standing in the AOE for 3 seconds", which could also be totally right.

Our you can ask yourself if you could've saved them by healing more using a resto staff, despite the fact they are a little bit slow or live in Australia with a bad ping.

And when in doubt people will always blame the most obvious, which are tanks without shield or healers without staff.

PS: I rather doubt the usefulness of those builds anyway, because you might just be forcing your party members to use their inefficient emergency heals/shields more often, possibly limiting their DPS.

Uhh, that makes no sense.

How could I have saved them by healing them more with a resto staff? If resto heals are better than Temp heals, then I don't need the Temp line.

If they aren't better, I have plenty of Temp heals to cast now.

Again... I am healing... those 5 Resto buttons have nothing to add. They don't give me MOAR healing. I can only press so many buttons at the same time...

Cyberwolffe · May 2014

Why wasn't this posted in the game discussion forum instead of the customer service forum? There isn't anything that customer support can do about this unless they start banning people for doing it.

Nooblet · May 2014

Cyberwolffe wrote: »

Why wasn't this posted in the game discussion forum instead of the customer service forum? There isn't anything that customer support can do about this unless they start banning people for doing it.

There is a customer service section? I thought this was the complaint section.

AlexDougherty · May 2014

Cyberwolffe wrote: »

Why wasn't this posted in the game discussion forum instead of the customer service forum? There isn't anything that customer support can do about this unless they start banning people for doing it.

Not entirely sure, but some people are using the CS forum as a General Discussion forum, in the hope that Zos will finally create a General Discussion.