carlos424 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

- Antiquity Leads for the Torc of the Last Ayleid King Mythic item will now drop more reliably.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I really don't understand the patch notes on this item because I have unlocked 2 and a bit Mythics for this item in my runs for furniture plans so they are dropping for me all the time yet these furniture plans have not dropped once.

I have done Arc 1-4 everyday (multiple runs on weekends) since launch of Update and not received a single furnishing plan drop from end of boss chests, marauders or even side quest chests, nothing.

Can you please get the team to investigate? I have submitted many in-game ticket requests and will continue to submit everyday they dont drop for me or till we get some kind of communication regarding it. Thank you.

And the patch notes is saying that the Leads will drop more often now.
 

I’m not sure the lead drop rate was that much of a problem. Like others have said, the leads are way more reliable than new furnishing plans. I have run the archive 8 or 9 times and have all the new mythic leads. Most, if not all, of the leads came from side portal chests. In my experience, the best drops come from side portal chests, loot goblins, and marauders.

Unless the marauder is Gothmau. In that case, he doesn't drop plans or leads, he drops you.

carlos424 wrote: »

Just got a new blue recipe: praxis apocrypha lattice tile from a marauder in arc 2/5/1. So early on in a run. Patch notes say they increased drops for the antiquity leads. Maybe they also increased furnishing plans? 4th plan in two weeks, 1 green and 3 blue

No, unless it’s a stealth adjustment, or whatever that would be called. The patch notes specifically say the leads for the new mythic would now drop “more reliably” which is of note to me since there seemed to be an issue of them dropping for some people, while others got them all right away.

It is good to know that the plans drop from Marauders too! I had thought they specifically dropped only from the muniment chests.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

hi, Gina
may i, please, ask a broader question:

- most of Necrom and Infinite Archive furnishings require the Glass Eye of Mora style material, and demand overwhelms supply greatly. One piece of the said material is about 15,000 gold at PC EU at this moment, and this hardly will change, unless Zenimax reconsiders the sourcing and the drop rate.
Except farming Scrivener's Hall (which is optional dungeon DLC, not even a zone DLC!) the other alternative is transmuting things into Scribes of Mora gear and deconstructing it (with 50% chance to obtain one style stone per 50 transmute crystals spent). Or better - transmuting weapons into nirnhoned, deconstructing, again, with approximately 50% return rate, selling one Potent Nirncrux for about 35,000..40,000 (current PC EU prices) and buying them damn eyes.
We have already saw that with Summerset and Culanda Lacquer (which is still about 6,000 a piece, and this is still too much (in my humble opinion)). Though Culanda Lacquer is easier and faster to get as a reward for Summerset dailies. And that matters for casual players.
Glass Eyes of Mora are intentionally made hard to obtain and the said style stones market prices confirm this perfectly.

- U41 furnishing plans are hard to obtain too. Please, command Zenimax employee to farm 10 such recipes on a regular server without using the cheat codes and other developers magic, just to measure the average time spent to get a new furnishing plan. Compare to other plans, except Vampiric, please. Is that intended, but not just blind copying the drop tables?

so the question: Necrom furnishings completely diverge from the other furnishings. This furnishing plans are much more expensive than all the others (except Vampiric ones, which also are very hard to obtain, because the drop solely from the Harrowstorms, the number of such events per hour is limited, also, drop rate is extremely far from stellar). The materials required for the new plans are also "elite and exquisite" (they are 3x more expensive than Culanda Lacquer and 15x more expensive than Vile Coagulant).

Gina, why? Could developers, please, hint us, why fashion started to diverge so far away from the players' friendly feature?

TL/DR; Necrom furnishings seriously diverge from the rest of ESO furnishings both in terms of obtaining plans and them furnishings production costs. Why?

Comment deleted as my views and opinions are not relevant to ZoS.

MoonPile wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

- Antiquity Leads for the Torc of the Last Ayleid King Mythic item will now drop more reliably.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
I really don't understand the patch notes on this item because I have unlocked 2 and a bit Mythics for this item in my runs for furniture plans so they are dropping for me all the time yet these furniture plans have not dropped once.

I have done Arc 1-4 everyday (multiple runs on weekends) since launch of Update and not received a single furnishing plan drop from end of boss chests, marauders or even side quest chests, nothing.

Can you please get the team to investigate? I have submitted many in-game ticket requests and will continue to submit everyday they dont drop for me or till we get some kind of communication regarding it. Thank you.

Wait, that is a crazy patch note for it to be from yesterday! I would understand if it was during the PTS or so, but the Torc already dropped too frequently since live launched.

But barely any plans.

Thanks everyone for sharing when / where you got yours. Another question: Has anyone gotten any new, U41 Apocrypha structural plans from urns? One player said they have. But the official patch notes and players say they only come from chest (marauder, imp) loot tables.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin can you tell us?

• Was the patch note just incomplete - the new U41 plans can also drop from urns?
• We're getting too many Torc leads (and style pages, IMO), but almost no furnishing plans. Can it please be adjusted?

Edit: here's proof that the drop rates are bad. PC NA Purple U40 price charts vs U41:
(You can do this search for any of them and it holds true.)

Old U40 purple plan over first 2 weeks:


Old U40 gold plan over first 2 weeks:


...

NEW U41 purple plan over first 2 weeks:


Different NEW U41 purple plan over first 2 weeks:
(Some actually spiked up because people realized how bad the drop rates are):

I have not received any new plans from urns, and I’ve looked through hundreds by now. However, I have gotten many of the old plans from them.

Comment deleted as my views and opinions are not relevant to ZoS.

CGPsaint wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

So in these terms, ZOS stays true to their old modus operandi: make niche furnishing rare drops (Dwarven, Ayleid, Vampiric and now Apocrypha). So I wouldn't say Apocrypha diverges from their marketing of these items (ofc there are changes). Well, it's just unlucky, that Apocrypha structural style is actually pretty cool and works well with a bunch of other styles (especially Murkmire, that one was a pleasant surprise for me).

The Apocrypha/Necrom plans from IA are not even remotely on the same rarity level as Vampiric, and certainly not on the same rarity level as some of the OG Dwarven plans, or ANY of the Ayleid plans. On Xbox/NA, all of the purple Vampiric plans sell for 195K and up, Dwarven sell for 300K to well over 1M, and Ayleid sells for 2.25M up to 5M. Give it a couple of weeks and all of the new purple furnishing plans from IA will be at or around 100K on the high side.

That would be true if the new furnishing plans could be obtained from daily zone quest coffers as most have been in the past. However, these only come from the infinite archive, which is a limiting factor. Also, those of us who have run it almost daily have seen the very low drop rate. My experience has been about 10-12 runs. At least a couple hundred drops between chests, marauders, and lute goblins. I have received all the new mythic antiquity leads, plus many others. I have received quite a few old furnishing plans, including at least one purple. However, new furnishing plans: 1 green, 2 blue. That’s it. And one of the blues I got today. So either I’m very unlucky or the drop rate isn’t great. From what I’m seeing, it seems others have had a similar experience. They supposedly increased the new mythic leads drop chance today, but they were already dropping way more frequently than furnishing plans, at least for me.

Have you actively tried farming purple Ayleid furnishing plans? I have farmed almost 200 hours and have never seen a single purple drop. I can assure you that I would rather grind IA than ever do the Ayleid farm again. Vampiric and Dwarven are a bit more forgiving in that I can generally get 1 purple drop for every 4-5 hours of farming, but then again farming urns hour after hour is a rather unenjoyable grind.

Hopefully ZOS is keeping tabs on this issue and adjusts drop rates if needed, but I would still rather play IA than just mindlessly root around in urns, plus the Archival Currency does have value which is more than I can say for all of the trash I pull out of urns!

All that being said, I'll be grinding IA when it drops on console and will keep running stats to see if I can coroborate drops or lack thereof on console.

No one is saying Ayleid plans and whatever else aren’t limited. I’m just saying that the new purple IA plans will not be selling for under 100k in 2 weeks, even on console. And IA has alot of other things you can get. New style pages, over world sets to fill out your sticker book, antiquity leads, IA currency, etc. Definitely better than just farming urns or killing mobs in a delve. In terms of time, I estimate I’ve been in IA 25-30 hours this patch, and have received 1 green and 2 of the new blue plans. No purples.

carlos424 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

So in these terms, ZOS stays true to their old modus operandi: make niche furnishing rare drops (Dwarven, Ayleid, Vampiric and now Apocrypha). So I wouldn't say Apocrypha diverges from their marketing of these items (ofc there are changes). Well, it's just unlucky, that Apocrypha structural style is actually pretty cool and works well with a bunch of other styles (especially Murkmire, that one was a pleasant surprise for me).

The Apocrypha/Necrom plans from IA are not even remotely on the same rarity level as Vampiric, and certainly not on the same rarity level as some of the OG Dwarven plans, or ANY of the Ayleid plans. On Xbox/NA, all of the purple Vampiric plans sell for 195K and up, Dwarven sell for 300K to well over 1M, and Ayleid sells for 2.25M up to 5M. Give it a couple of weeks and all of the new purple furnishing plans from IA will be at or around 100K on the high side.

That would be true if the new furnishing plans could be obtained from daily zone quest coffers as most have been in the past. However, these only come from the infinite archive, which is a limiting factor. Also, those of us who have run it almost daily have seen the very low drop rate. My experience has been about 10-12 runs. At least a couple hundred drops between chests, marauders, and lute goblins. I have received all the new mythic antiquity leads, plus many others. I have received quite a few old furnishing plans, including at least one purple. However, new furnishing plans: 1 green, 2 blue. That’s it. And one of the blues I got today. So either I’m very unlucky or the drop rate isn’t great. From what I’m seeing, it seems others have had a similar experience. They supposedly increased the new mythic leads drop chance today, but they were already dropping way more frequently than furnishing plans, at least for me.

You're not unlucky; the graphs I posted are PC NA server-wide.

carlos424 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

So in these terms, ZOS stays true to their old modus operandi: make niche furnishing rare drops (Dwarven, Ayleid, Vampiric and now Apocrypha). So I wouldn't say Apocrypha diverges from their marketing of these items (ofc there are changes). Well, it's just unlucky, that Apocrypha structural style is actually pretty cool and works well with a bunch of other styles (especially Murkmire, that one was a pleasant surprise for me).

The Apocrypha/Necrom plans from IA are not even remotely on the same rarity level as Vampiric, and certainly not on the same rarity level as some of the OG Dwarven plans, or ANY of the Ayleid plans. On Xbox/NA, all of the purple Vampiric plans sell for 195K and up, Dwarven sell for 300K to well over 1M, and Ayleid sells for 2.25M up to 5M. Give it a couple of weeks and all of the new purple furnishing plans from IA will be at or around 100K on the high side.

That would be true if the new furnishing plans could be obtained from daily zone quest coffers as most have been in the past. However, these only come from the infinite archive, which is a limiting factor. Also, those of us who have run it almost daily have seen the very low drop rate. My experience has been about 10-12 runs. At least a couple hundred drops between chests, marauders, and lute goblins. I have received all the new mythic antiquity leads, plus many others. I have received quite a few old furnishing plans, including at least one purple. However, new furnishing plans: 1 green, 2 blue. That’s it. And one of the blues I got today. So either I’m very unlucky or the drop rate isn’t great. From what I’m seeing, it seems others have had a similar experience. They supposedly increased the new mythic leads drop chance today, but they were already dropping way more frequently than furnishing plans, at least for me.

Have you actively tried farming purple Ayleid furnishing plans? I have farmed almost 200 hours and have never seen a single purple drop. I can assure you that I would rather grind IA than ever do the Ayleid farm again. Vampiric and Dwarven are a bit more forgiving in that I can generally get 1 purple drop for every 4-5 hours of farming, but then again farming urns hour after hour is a rather unenjoyable grind.

Hopefully ZOS is keeping tabs on this issue and adjusts drop rates if needed, but I would still rather play IA than just mindlessly root around in urns, plus the Archival Currency does have value which is more than I can say for all of the trash I pull out of urns!

All that being said, I'll be grinding IA when it drops on console and will keep running stats to see if I can coroborate drops or lack thereof on console.

No one is saying Ayleid plans and whatever else aren’t limited. I’m just saying that the new purple IA plans will not be selling for under 100k in 2 weeks, even on console. And IA has alot of other things you can get. New style pages, over world sets to fill out your sticker book, antiquity leads, IA currency, etc. Definitely better than just farming urns or killing mobs in a delve. In terms of time, I estimate I’ve been in IA 25-30 hours this patch, and have received 1 green and 2 of the new blue plans. No purples.

Right now, the old purple plans from IA are only rarely selling for less than 100k on PS NA.

EDIT: clarification

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Right now, the old purple plans from IA are only rarely selling for less than 100k on PS NA.

EDIT: clarification

Price drop for Necrom purples is that with U41 Faustina Curio offers a container with one of the following plans for 50 master writ vouchers. The listed plans got below 100K at PC EU, due to a sudden supply spike.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Necrom_Master_Furnisher's_Document

edit:
as regarding U41 structural purples, in my books they are on par with Vampiric, so after novelty disappear, we would probably see theirs prices stabilzed at about 1M on average. Ayleid in the heavier weight category: 5x more expensive than Vampiric as they are very rare.
For me the decisive difference between Necrom furnisings and Vampiric ones is that Vile Coagulant is about 750g..1,000g a piece, but Glass Eye of Mora are about 15K a piece, (and 15x..20x is a very significant difference) making it the most expensive furnishing material

Necrom furnishings require the funerary wrappings, which can be got from deconning armor found in zone, similar to other zone styles such as Alinor and Elsweyr.

Apocrypha furnishings are what require the Glass Eyes of Mora style material, which only drop from Scrivener’s Hall. IMHO, they should have also been the style mat from the IA class set gear, which currently drop NO style mats, which combines with their stats to make them the least rewarding gear drop ever.

DinoZavr wrote: »

i can afford buying a very expensive furnishing plan, as this is a one time expense. Crafting furnishing is not a one time experience.

Ah, but I don't see buying an expensive Apocrypha plan as a one-time expense for 2 reasons: there are a decent number of furnishing plans to buy and, more importantly, it may become ZOS policy to add high-value furnishing plans to IA and future game modes. And if those future plans are as good and as costly as Apocrypha structural plans, well, it would become a regular line of expense in the future (like it happened with style mats, which, btw, I was also discussing as a problem when Culanda Lacquer was introduced).

So unless we see it as an imminent problem and discuss it as an imminent problem, we will get that problem sooner or later

carlos424 wrote: »

Got my first purple new furnishing plan from Infinite Archive. Praxis: Apocrypha Alcove, Stone. Got it off a marauder. The plans seem to have a higher drop rate from marauders and loot goblins. In fact, of the 4-5 new plans I’ve found, all have been from marauders and loot goblins. None from chests.

I think you're right. They seem to drop exclusively from them. I can't think of the last time I got one from a chest.

sarahthes wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

Got my first purple new furnishing plan from Infinite Archive. Praxis: Apocrypha Alcove, Stone. Got it off a marauder. The plans seem to have a higher drop rate from marauders and loot goblins. In fact, of the 4-5 new plans I’ve found, all have been from marauders and loot goblins. None from chests.

I think you're right. They seem to drop exclusively from them. I can't think of the last time I got one from a chest.

Depends on a chest. If it's from a side portal, then they do drop furnishing plans. In fact, I had a better chances with them than with the marauders/loot goblins. The ones from the bosses either have extremely low drop rate or do not drop them at all.

So I did some quick math. So far I'm getting one new plan approximately every 26 arcs (no I do not run the 26 arcs at once, this is across multiple runs). There are 28 plans, so assuming I don't get duplicates, that would require running approximately 728 arcs.

Maybe if the content was actually being added to / improved / was enjoyable... that wouldn't seem so bad. But I'll just pass and spend that time playing other games that are fun.

There's something called learned helplessness and imo it's really not a very good game design philosophy.

I mean I'm not suggesting there should be *no* rare rewards in content like IA, but the common rewards are horrible. I finish my runs with my entire inventory filled with junk that I have to vendor or delete. Or a bunch of the same leads or fragments I don't need anymore. I still never got any of the original gold or purple plans from IA either. The style pages don't drop much but aren't as bad as the plans... It's just not a pleasant experience.

TL;DR, I think at least we should be given the opportunity to purchase a container with a random IA plan in it with our hard-earned archival fortunes. And a little more effort should be put into adding to IA and keeping IA fresh and fun... rather than making it as grindy as possible.