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For years I've tried to convince hundreds of players to play ESO. Results might surprise ZOS
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ikzaa✭✭✭✭silky_soft wrote: »Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.
I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.
Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.
Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.
They've been working on a new game with a new IP for several years now. Not really a secret, former Loremaster Leamon Tuttle moved to that project.
I'm the only one who read Lemon Turtle?3 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see a few people saying that their characters will be "ruined" if updates like this happened or that quitting over looks is hyperbolic. Game may look fine to you -- but these wooden animations of ESO and PS1 graphics toes can really leave a bad impression for new players, I'd say the majority of them even.
Even if they don't completely overhaul things and just do a touch-up, it will help the game immensely. You may ask how I know what the majority want for a TeS game, well, the answer is simple: the Nexus. Look at stats of what people download the most and what keeps them coming back: it's body mods and things that change how their character looks and feels. Trust me, it will do wonders for ESO. @ZOS_GinaBruno Think about it guys.10 -
Ph1p✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »silky_soft wrote: »Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.
I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.
Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.
Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.
It's funny you say this. It's common knowledge that they've been actively developing another MMO for several years now.
What is the name of this MMO that ZOS is developing and can you please provide a link to any press releases about it?
There are only few details, but ZOS' website openly states that they are working on a "new AAA IP" with a new engine, for which they are actively hiring people experienced in "multiplayer, open world, and action RPGs".0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.Edited by HowlKimchi on March 15, 2024 8:24AM9 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think they are definitely shifting their attention to the new game, it's only natural. ESO isn't in maintenance mode yet, but it's getting there. Even imagining some kind of major overhaul be it graphical or otherwise seems like a dream at this point, it won't happen.There are only few details, but ZOS' website openly states that they are working on a "new AAA IP" with a new engine, for which they are actively hiring people experienced in "multiplayer, open world, and action RPGs".
8 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The running animation is goofy because it's a dwarf with it's ginormous flat feet.... but the physics and the movement of the upper body especially (the shoulders swaying side to side) are better, and even more realistic, in comparison to what ESO is working with for sure.
Khajiit disagrees, and he further thinks that 'physics' may not mean what you think it means in this context.
There is no 'physics' to either motion - there is no f=ma/dynamics modeling in any of the motions going on - they are both IK/mocap based (artistically embellished marker trajectories, sure, but based on recorded human motion to some degree), and except for the occasional stutter, the mocap in this game is great, and made better by enabling foot IK, an option available in the gameplay menu.
The WOW motion is less based on real mocap, khajiit would wager gold to wares. The little floaty bouncy crap in mid stride of that dwarf is exactly how running, or real physics (if that is what matters to you), does NOT work.
Real running is an exercise in lateral acceleration, velocity and deceleration, all while retaining balance and control, not parabolic trajectories like a bouncy ball with attitude.
Here is real biped running - where is mid-stride hang-time? In fact, which game's motion looks more like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKlFUWVMX_Y
Khajiit thinks the problem might be that some folks do not want reality in their motion, they want bouncy cartoony Nintendo Mario World motion. Nothing wrong with that, of course - it looks and 'feels' fun to control, but recognize it for what it is.
This is tangential to conversation, but the cartoony animations in WOW are why khajiit never even tried it. So different strokes and all that
.
Edited by karthrag_inak on March 15, 2024 10:43AMPC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)11 -
Surgee✭✭✭✭
Considering Zenimax has openly said things about consoles being the reason they can't make certain changes/improvements, I'd say very much.How much do we think this is due to the old consoles holding the game back?
Yes, the different running styles of what is supposed to be a robot. I am merely making a joke though and personally don't have a problem with the running animations in ESO.... but despite that, I can also still admit that the animations and physics are not that great compared to other MMOs. ESO has it's own areas it shines in, this is just not one of them. And yes.... do I sometimes sigh in distaste at the sight of my mount gliding over the ground and ricocheting off of rocks and the top of flights of stairs? Yes.... but it is what it is. Some people won't mind it, some people somehow believe it's great(?), and others will find it unplayable.Both the ESO running/sprinting animation and the one in the gif are good. They are both demonstrating different styles of running animation.
Nah, old consoles have nothing to do with animations quality. As for other type of graphical fidelity, it scales. Old consoles can only hold back the game in terms of extremely advanced calculations, enemies on screen etc.3 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh, and khajiit wanted to add ...I've tried to convince hundreds of players to play ESO
PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)16 -
LadyLethalla✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hated the running animation in Skyrim so that I played it first person. Hence when I came to ESO at console release I also played first person... Walking/ running animations in ESO are a vast improvement on Skyrim.x-TallyCat-x // PC EU DC - For the Covenant! // ESO Platinum trophy - 16th May 2017.
Melbourne Australia - the land of Potato Internet.WTB ESO OCEANIC SERVER0 -
fizzylu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I mean, there was seriously an issue with consoles that was stopping them from adding new animations awhile back and it took forever for them to find a fix for it.... but sure.Nah, old consoles have nothing to do with animations quality. As for other type of graphical fidelity, it scales. Old consoles can only hold back the game in terms of extremely advanced calculations, enemies on screen etc.
Physics, mocap, call it whatever you want; my point was the body movement of the WoW model is a light jog and it 100% looks more accurate to a natural movement. ESO body models move as if they are doing a very stiff 40 yard dash sprint 100% of the time which is what gives them the unnatural/robotic look and the actual sprint is the same animation just faster, making them look like the Flash. And I'd say that YouTube video is not a good representation of anyone "running" throughout their daily life, I know that's definitely not how I move when I need to run back inside my house because I forgot to grab something. Skyrim is even a better example of a light "run" vs a sprint than ESO and that YouTube video.karthrag_inak wrote: »Khajiit disagrees, and he further thinks that 'physics' may not mean what you think it means in this context.
There is no 'physics' to either motion - there is no f=ma/dynamics modeling in any of the motions going on - they are both IK/mocap based (artistically embellished marker trajectories, sure, but based on recorded human motion to some degree), and except for the occasional stutter, the mocap in this game is great, and made better by enabling foot IK, an option available in the gameplay menu.
The WOW motion is less based on real mocap, khajiit would wager gold to wares. The little floaty bouncy crap in mid stride of that dwarf is exactly how running, or real physics (if that is what matters to you), does NOT work.
Real running is an exercise in lateral acceleration, velocity and deceleration, all while retaining balance and control, not parabolic trajectories like a bouncy ball with attitude.
Here is real biped running - where is mid-stride hang-time? In fact, which game's motion looks more like this?Edited by fizzylu on March 15, 2024 11:46AM3 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Physics, mocap, call it whatever you want; my point was the body movement of the WoW model is a light jog and it 100% looks more accurate to a natural movement.
There has never been, and there never will be, a real, actual, 'natural' biped of any kind that moves that way in any natural environment. Khajiit challenges anyone to provide a video or link of any running motion with that floaty hang time mid-stride who isn't on the moon.ESO body models move as if they are doing a very stiff 40 yard dash sprint 100% of the time which is what gives them the unnatural/robotic look and the actual sprint is the same animation just faster, making them look like the Flash. And I'd say that YouTube video is not a good representation of anyone "running" throughout their daily life, I know that's definitely not how I move when I need to run back inside my house because I forgot to grab something. Skyrim is even a better example of a light "run" vs a sprint than ESO and that YouTube video.
So the guy actually running, in the real world, with real "real-world" physics, looks less real than a 100-poly, poorly animated dwarf in a 20 y.o. game engine with trig function-based inverse-kinematic motion (them thar cosines are uniformly driving those joints)?
Ok, then.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)9 -
Rikkadir✭✭✭Dax_Draconis wrote: »I never realized the running animation was an issue that keeps people from playing the game.
Insightful.
Me neither, as it's in first person. lolPS4/PS5/EU0 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You know, khajiit gets it. People don't want running that looks real - that's "robot running". They want animation that looks animated. Nothing wrong with that. Just stop saying "it looks more real" because it is the diametric opposite to real.
Khajiit long ago heard about how many folks naturally thought the moon looked bigger near the horizon than directly overhead. Folks would say it was because the thickness of the atmosphere the moon's light had to travel through diffracted it and made it seem bigger.
This of course is baloney - the moon appears no different anywhere in the sky. Prove it for yourself - stick your arm out, poke up your thumb and put it by the moon. No matter where the moon is in the sky, it is approx the width of how your thumb appears, yes? And no matter where the moon is, it is always the same fraction of thumb width as well, yes?
This animation/running debate is similar. Folks are so used to seeing running -animation- (vastly more often than they see real running in real life), animation that is inaccurate, grossly exaggerated and unrealistic that that is how they think real running motion actually looks.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)9 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see a few people saying that their characters will be "ruined" if updates like this happened or that quitting over looks is hyperbolic. Game may look fine to you -- but these wooden animations of ESO and PS1 graphics toes can really leave a bad impression for new players, I'd say the majority of them even.
Even if they don't completely overhaul things and just do a touch-up, it will help the game immensely. You may ask how I know what the majority want for a TeS game, well, the answer is simple: the Nexus. Look at stats of what people download the most and what keeps them coming back: it's body mods and things that change how their character looks and feels. Trust me, it will do wonders for ESO. @ZOS_GinaBruno Think about it guys.
It isn't hyperbole. We've had discussions like this before, and from what I have read in those threads, the players who are saying they quit other games due to their characters being altered beyond recognition, really did quit. Quitting for such a reason is real.
Roleplay and character appearance is important in this game, more so than many others, and if I were ZOS, I'd think -real hard- before touching the characters themselves.
I myself have instantly dropped 2 mmo's because changes to the character creator and engine made my characters unrecognizable. The changes were so extreme that it was impossible to actually recreate them in a way that resembled what they once looked like (and I'm a person who spends hours in the CC)
Granted, it was the straw that broke the camels back with those two games, because they were having other issues. But I would have stuck around had they not changed my characters.
Characters are an important part of many people's experience, beyond mechanics.
Would I quit ESO? Well, that depends on a lot of factors. If a character update was actually good, sure I'd stay. But chances are it wouldn't be, because in my experience, things like this never go well.
I do enjoy the mechanics of eso far more than any mmo I've ever played, so there's that. But if I'm not enjoying the looks of my characters, my chances of dropping the game increase.PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die10 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »I see a few people saying that their characters will be "ruined" if updates like this happened or that quitting over looks is hyperbolic. Game may look fine to you -- but these wooden animations of ESO and PS1 graphics toes can really leave a bad impression for new players, I'd say the majority of them even.
Even if they don't completely overhaul things and just do a touch-up, it will help the game immensely. You may ask how I know what the majority want for a TeS game, well, the answer is simple: the Nexus. Look at stats of what people download the most and what keeps them coming back: it's body mods and things that change how their character looks and feels. Trust me, it will do wonders for ESO. @ZOS_GinaBruno Think about it guys.
It isn't hyperbole. We've had discussions like this before, and from what I have read in those threads, the players who are saying they quit other games due to their characters being altered beyond recognition, really did quit. Quitting for such a reason is real.
Roleplay and character appearance is important in this game, more so than many others, and if I were ZOS, I'd think -real hard- before touching the characters themselves.
I myself have instantly dropped 2 mmo's because changes to the character creator and engine made my characters unrecognizable. The changes were so extreme that it was impossible to actually recreate them in a way that resembled what they once looked like (and I'm a person who spends hours in the CC)
Granted, it was the straw that broke the camels back with those two games, because they were having other issues. But I would have stuck around had they not changed my characters.
Characters are an important part of many people's experience, beyond mechanics.
Would I quit ESO? Well, that depends on a lot of factors. If a character update was actually good, sure I'd stay. But chances are it wouldn't be, because in my experience, things like this never go well.
I do enjoy the mechanics of eso far more than any mmo I've ever played, so there's that. But if I'm not enjoying the looks of my characters, my chances of dropping the game increase.
Exactly this. Very well said.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....7 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭....and yet the fact remains, it does not matter if people quit the game becasue of updates to characters, updates that actually make them better.
Its better to lose 20% of the current player base because of their strict attitude towards their character and gain 50% more players because the game has been updated to modern standards.
What boggles my mind is why anyone would throw away thousands of dollars instead of refreshing their avatar with the new updated looks. I have never come across a characer refresh that I could not navigate around and find something to be pleased with.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you'll find you get what you need - Mick Jagger"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.PCNA0 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.
Umm.
You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.
Umm.
You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?
Nothing can propel forward if there is a platform directly in front of them blocking the way. They have to take a step or 2 back first.Edited by SilverBride on March 15, 2024 3:52PMPCNA0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.
im talking a very small hump that the game registers as an obstruction which in real life you dont even have to jump to cross. And also, standing long jumps are a thing IRL.
Edited by HowlKimchi on March 15, 2024 3:53PM3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HowlKimchi wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.
im talking a very small hump that the game registers as an obstruction which in real life you dont even have to jump to cross. And also, standing long jumps are a thing IRL.
That wasn't specified. All I read was "if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform" describing jumping from a low platform to a higher elevation, in which my example is correct.
Edited by SilverBride on March 15, 2024 4:00PMPCNA0 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've had the same experience with people I've brought to the game. The only one who stuck with it with me is my wife, and only because we both started playing together during the beta. We've been unsuccessful bringing anyone else into the game for basically all these reasons. One other reason is "Lack of direction."
Let's go step by step and fix it shall we!
1. Fix the running and walking animations. This isn't a ton of work by the way, a good animator can do this by themselves in about an hour (each) if they just use the current animations as a base.
2. Texture and lighting, and mod support for it. I get that adding lighting and texture updates will be difficult, but this is a TES game. Let the modders do it, and maybe release your own in the future.
3. Include ESO + for a month with the purchase of the game. What? That loses you 15 bucks? Tough, because that might gain you a permanent player to the game that'll purchase it every month for a long time.
4. For current players, keep the design of the game as is. But when you make a character for the first time, throw their character in jail. Have new players experience the game the same way players experienced it when the game came out: have them start in jail in cold harbor, saved by the prophet, go through the tutorial section, and escape to the starting zone of their respective alliance (stros m'kai, bleak rock, or khenarthi's roost). Why? It gives clear direction, starts out epic with stakes rather than kinda cold with a ton of choices new players won't understand well, and throws them into a smaller zone whose direction is easy and digestible, and also leads into the main story of their respective alliance. It gives direction, which makes the game way more fun especially when you're starting out.
5. Pvp... Oh pvp. If they fix PVP for the players that are already in the game, it'll be fixed for new players. Maybe start with that.4 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »....and yet the fact remains, it does not matter if people quit the game becasue of updates to characters, updates that actually make them better.
Its better to lose 20% of the current player base because of their strict attitude towards their character and gain 50% more players because the game has been updated to modern standards.
What boggles my mind is why anyone would throw away thousands of dollars instead of refreshing their avatar with the new updated looks. I have never come across a characer refresh that I could not navigate around and find something to be pleased with.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you'll find you get what you need - Mick Jagger
Personally, I don't feel that enjoying a videogame is about getting what you "need", that is a mentality I reserve for real life situations, business, and actual survival.
Playing games is about enjoyment, and indeed, getting what you want. If a game no longer gives me what I want and I feel in some way tied to it in spite of not really liking it any more, I consider that an unhealthy practice and I stop playing. I do not have to continue playing a game I have no desire to play if it no longer offers me an aesthetic I desire to look at.
As gaming is entertainment, I do not consider it a waste of money to leave a game I no longer like. I have received my amusement from the money spent, and can return to the game if I so choose. "Leaving" a game doesn't have to be permanent either. One can always return if sentiment towards the alterations changes.
There's people who spend thousands of dollars every year on watching movies, or going to concerts- they have an experience, then its over. Games are no different. You can have an experience with them, but ultimately, one day the servers will go down, and all the money put into them will be gone as well. You had an experience, and it's over. Leaving a game is not much different.
Sorry, but I'm not chaining myself to sunk cost fallacy if a game no longer provides visual enjoyment.
If ESO were to change it's character creator, I would hold out for the genuine hope that they would be changes I enjoy, and that the "feel" of the ESO races would be retained rather than being homogenized into the beauty stereotypes we often see in other games. Unfortunately, my reason for leaving the other games was due to this exact thing. Races that were once unique were altered to fit human beauty standards in order to appeal to a wider audience, and characters could not be recreated due to the absence of the features that defined them.
Again, I would hope that the developers would carefully consider their audience when making such updates. But the tendency towards more "human" beauty standards in trailers leaves me wondering what would actually happen if they were to update the character creator.
I make comments because I feel ZOS needs to know that there are those who do like the characters as they are, and that if they were to make changes, it would be nice if they remained faithful to the things their audience liked about the original, but in an upgraded way.PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die6 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How much do we think this is due to the old consoles holding the game back?
PC-based MMOs had an easier time upgrading the graphics as the players' platforms upgraded over time as well.
That said, I don't think ZOS has the capability for an overhaul like this, and the game still makes them enough money. They couldn't even find the resources to overhaul the base game zones, which has been requested ever since the first DLC zones like Hew's Bane and Gold Coast looked miles better.
I think ZOS have also learnt over the years that whenever they start from the premise that half the players want something different and half the players like it as it is, they then make a change as a result of which half the players like the change and half the players hate it and want the old way back. It's just that the two halves have swapped round, those who liked the old hate the new, and those who hated the old like the new. ZOS end up scratching their heads and wondering why they invested the resources into making a change that hasn't altered the overall population's view of the game at all.0 -
Rageypoo✭✭✭✭✭For me it's the set items and storage space. There are so many to farm, you will never have enough room to hold them, you will never have enough transmute crystals to try them all, it's this weird repetition of do dungeon>collect few pieces over and over and over before you can even use them to their full potential, and by the time you can, you learn that the set is basic at best and that it wasn't worth your time and effort. This game is insane with item sets, and strange inventory limitations that aren't fixed even with ESO+ that make it this neverending effort of inventory/bank efficiency vs item usage for different situations.
It also pains me to see that one character is basically unable to do all 3 roles without having to pay for an armory slot (that is per character, not universal) and even then each armor set has to be carried in the same limited inventory.
It's just head scratching sometimes.2 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.
Umm.
You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?
Nothing can propel forward if there is a platform directly in front of them blocking the way. They have to take a step or 2 back first.
That is incorrect. It depends on the animal and their leg strength. A frog can have a "platform" 10x their body in length and easily jump it from a standstill to clear the "platform"."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see a few people saying that their characters will be "ruined" if updates like this happened or that quitting over looks is hyperbolic. Game may look fine to you -- but these wooden animations of ESO and PS1 graphics toes can really leave a bad impression for new players, I'd say the majority of them even.
Even if they don't completely overhaul things and just do a touch-up, it will help the game immensely. You may ask how I know what the majority want for a TeS game, well, the answer is simple: the Nexus. Look at stats of what people download the most and what keeps them coming back: it's body mods and things that change how their character looks and feels. Trust me, it will do wonders for ESO. @ZOS_GinaBruno Think about it guys.
I would be interested in knowing out of the hundreds of new players that have been introduced to the game by existing players, how many of them had a TES background? What other games had they come from? I suspect this isn't a game that was going to appeal to a good many of them before they'd even looked at it. Nothing wrong with that of course, as has been said before, not every game is a right fit for every gamer, and if a serious gamer hasn't previously wanted to try ESO and has to be persuaded by a friend to do so then the chances are it's not going to appeal to them.5 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »....and yet the fact remains, it does not matter if people quit the game becasue of updates to characters, updates that actually make them better.
Its better to lose 20% of the current player base because of their strict attitude towards their character and gain 50% more players because the game has been updated to modern standards.
What boggles my mind is why anyone would throw away thousands of dollars instead of refreshing their avatar with the new updated looks. I have never come across a characer refresh that I could not navigate around and find something to be pleased with.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you'll find you get what you need - Mick Jagger
Personally, I don't feel that enjoying a videogame is about getting what you "need", that is a mentality I reserve for real life situations, business, and actual survival.
Playing games is about enjoyment, and indeed, getting what you want. If a game no longer gives me what I want and I feel in some way tied to it in spite of not really liking it any more, I consider that an unhealthy practice and I stop playing. I do not have to continue playing a game I have no desire to play if it no longer offers me an aesthetic I desire to look at.
As gaming is entertainment, I do not consider it a waste of money to leave a game I no longer like. I have received my amusement from the money spent, and can return to the game if I so choose. "Leaving" a game doesn't have to be permanent either. One can always return if sentiment towards the alterations changes.
There's people who spend thousands of dollars every year on watching movies, or going to concerts- they have an experience, then its over. Games are no different. You can have an experience with them, but ultimately, one day the servers will go down, and all the money put into them will be gone as well. You had an experience, and it's over. Leaving a game is not much different.
Sorry, but I'm not chaining myself to sunk cost fallacy if a game no longer provides visual enjoyment.
If ESO were to change it's character creator, I would hold out for the genuine hope that they would be changes I enjoy, and that the "feel" of the ESO races would be retained rather than being homogenized into the beauty stereotypes we often see in other games. Unfortunately, my reason for leaving the other games was due to this exact thing. Races that were once unique were altered to fit human beauty standards in order to appeal to a wider audience, and characters could not be recreated due to the absence of the features that defined them.
Again, I would hope that the developers would carefully consider their audience when making such updates. But the tendency towards more "human" beauty standards in trailers leaves me wondering what would actually happen if they were to update the character creator.
I make comments because I feel ZOS needs to know that there are those who do like the characters as they are, and that if they were to make changes, it would be nice if they remained faithful to the things their audience liked about the original, but in an upgraded way.
ESO gives people very little of what they want, they have to purchase it or gamble on it through the crown store.
Fact is, ESO running animations are simply bad looking. You might like it, good for you. But they keep many players from engaging further than an hours log in becasue like you said, people play games for enjoyment and there is no enjoyment in experiencing bad running animations (and ESo Mounts REALLY take the cake here)."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »HowlKimchi wrote: »Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|
when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.
That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.
Umm.
You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?
Nothing can propel forward if there is a platform directly in front of them blocking the way. They have to take a step or 2 back first.
That is incorrect. It depends on the animal and their leg strength. A frog can have a "platform" 10x their body in length and easily jump it from a standstill to clear the "platform".
Our characters aren't frogs and if they moved like frogs do then there really would be a problem with the animations.PCNA7 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »....and yet the fact remains, it does not matter if people quit the game becasue of updates to characters, updates that actually make them better.
Its better to lose 20% of the current player base because of their strict attitude towards their character and gain 50% more players because the game has been updated to modern standards.
What boggles my mind is why anyone would throw away thousands of dollars instead of refreshing their avatar with the new updated looks. I have never come across a characer refresh that I could not navigate around and find something to be pleased with.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you'll find you get what you need - Mick Jagger
Personally, I don't feel that enjoying a videogame is about getting what you "need", that is a mentality I reserve for real life situations, business, and actual survival.
Playing games is about enjoyment, and indeed, getting what you want. If a game no longer gives me what I want and I feel in some way tied to it in spite of not really liking it any more, I consider that an unhealthy practice and I stop playing. I do not have to continue playing a game I have no desire to play if it no longer offers me an aesthetic I desire to look at.
As gaming is entertainment, I do not consider it a waste of money to leave a game I no longer like. I have received my amusement from the money spent, and can return to the game if I so choose. "Leaving" a game doesn't have to be permanent either. One can always return if sentiment towards the alterations changes.
There's people who spend thousands of dollars every year on watching movies, or going to concerts- they have an experience, then its over. Games are no different. You can have an experience with them, but ultimately, one day the servers will go down, and all the money put into them will be gone as well. You had an experience, and it's over. Leaving a game is not much different.
Sorry, but I'm not chaining myself to sunk cost fallacy if a game no longer provides visual enjoyment.
If ESO were to change it's character creator, I would hold out for the genuine hope that they would be changes I enjoy, and that the "feel" of the ESO races would be retained rather than being homogenized into the beauty stereotypes we often see in other games. Unfortunately, my reason for leaving the other games was due to this exact thing. Races that were once unique were altered to fit human beauty standards in order to appeal to a wider audience, and characters could not be recreated due to the absence of the features that defined them.
Again, I would hope that the developers would carefully consider their audience when making such updates. But the tendency towards more "human" beauty standards in trailers leaves me wondering what would actually happen if they were to update the character creator.
I make comments because I feel ZOS needs to know that there are those who do like the characters as they are, and that if they were to make changes, it would be nice if they remained faithful to the things their audience liked about the original, but in an upgraded way.
ESO gives people very little of what they want, they have to purchase it or gamble on it through the crown store.
Fact is, ESO running animations are simply bad looking. You might like it, good for you. But they keep many players from engaging further than an hours log in becasue like you said, people play games for enjoyment and there is no enjoyment in experiencing bad running animations (and ESo Mounts REALLY take the cake here).
That depends on what you want, I'm sure. I don't spend my time chasing the cash shop, so I get plenty of what I want.
When did I say anything about the running animation? I was talking about appearance, not animations. (I don't find the animations problematic at all, however, I like them. In fact, they were one of the reasons I started playing- no over the top animations.)PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die4