For years I've tried to convince hundreds of players to play ESO. Results might surprise ZOS

Pixiepumpkin

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|

when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.

That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.

Umm.

You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?

Nothing can propel forward if there is a platform directly in front of them blocking the way. They have to take a step or 2 back first.

That is incorrect. It depends on the animal and their leg strength. A frog can have a "platform" 10x their body in length and easily jump it from a standstill to clear the "platform".

Our characters aren't frogs and if they moved like frogs do then there really would be a problem with the animations.

Its an example, humans can do the same thing just not to the same degree.

I used an exaggerated example to help illustrate in your minds eye what you are missing.

SilverBride

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Sil verBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|

when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.

That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.

Umm.

You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?

Nothing can propel forward if there is a platform directly in front of them blocking the way. They have to take a step or 2 back first.

That is incorrect. It depends on the animal and their leg strength. A frog can have a "platform" 10x their body in length and easily jump it from a standstill to clear the "platform".

Our characters aren't frogs and if they moved like frogs do then there really would be a problem with the animations.

Its an example, humans can do the same thing just not to the same degree.

I used an exaggerated example to help illustrate in your minds eye what you are missing.

Well I don't feel I am missing anything but imagining my character hopping around Tamriel did give me a good laugh.

Pixiepumpkin

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Sil verBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

HowlKimchi wrote: »

Character movement and physics does incredibly suck. The one I hate most is that if there is an elevation you want to jump on/over from the lower platform, but you are right at the edge as indicated by the arrow and standing still:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . |
. . . . . . . . . . .| . |
.____________v__|

when your character jump he gets no horizontal displacement, and he just jumps in place. You have to move a step back to get a very small running start just to get over the bump or get on the platform.

That sounds exactly like things work in the real world to me. If a person is wanting to jump up onto an elevated platform they don't stand right up against it and jump because all that will do is jump them up vertically due to the deck being right in front of them and preventing them from propelling forward. So of course they need to take a couple of steps back to jump forward and on to the deck.

Umm.

You can spring forward while standing still. Ever see a cat pounce? A dog leap? A snake leap? A human leap?

Nothing can propel forward if there is a platform directly in front of them blocking the way. They have to take a step or 2 back first.

That is incorrect. It depends on the animal and their leg strength. A frog can have a "platform" 10x their body in length and easily jump it from a standstill to clear the "platform".

Our characters aren't frogs and if they moved like frogs do then there really would be a problem with the animations.

Its an example, humans can do the same thing just not to the same degree.

I used an exaggerated example to help illustrate in your minds eye what you are missing.

Well I don't feel I am missing anything but imagining my character hopping around Tamriel did give me a good laugh.

Ok you asserted that one can not jump forward without a running start.
I, and others explained to you why your assertion is untrue.
You stood by your assertion.
I explained in greater detail.
You stood by your assertion.

Do you see the issue now?

SilverBride

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok you asserted that one can not jump forward without a running start.
I, and others explained to you why your assertion is untrue.
You stood by your assertion.
I explained in greater detail.
You stood by your assertion.

Do you see the issue now?

I never once said that no one can jump forward without a running start.

I said that if someone is standing on a lower elevation right in front of a higher elevation, which is what the original statement I replied to described, they would be blocked from propelling forward until they moved back a step or 2 from the higher elevation. It would be like a wall right in front of them that the player needs to back up from to propel forward as well as up.

Pixiepumpkin

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok you asserted that one can not jump forward without a running start.
I, and others explained to you why your assertion is untrue.
You stood by your assertion.
I explained in greater detail.
You stood by your assertion.

Do you see the issue now?

I never once said that no one can jump forward without a running start.

I said that if someone is standing on a lower elevation right in front of a higher elevation, which is what the original statement I replied to described, they would be blocked from propelling forward until they moved back a step or 2 from the higher elevation. It would be like a wall right in front of them that the player needs to back up from to propel forward as well as up.

Its still achievable. Depends obviously on the elevation, but you can still jump up and forward without a running start.

SilverBride

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok you asserted that one can not jump forward without a running start.
I, and others explained to you why your assertion is untrue.
You stood by your assertion.
I explained in greater detail.
You stood by your assertion.

Do you see the issue now?

I never once said that no one can jump forward without a running start.

I said that if someone is standing on a lower elevation right in front of a higher elevation, which is what the original statement I replied to described, they would be blocked from propelling forward until they moved back a step or 2 from the higher elevation. It would be like a wall right in front of them that the player needs to back up from to propel forward as well as up.

Its still achievable. Depends obviously on the elevation, but you can still jump up and forward without a running start.

The player would be jumping forward right into a wall. There has to be enough room to clear this which means backing up, not necessarily for a running jump but just to have a clear unobstructed path to the higher elevation.

There is nothing wrong with our characters backing up to jump up and over or onto something.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Elvenheart

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Surgee wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

While rebuilding an entire game in a different engine might be a bigger undertaking than actually building new game (because of how complex ESO is) I strongly believe that spending money on updating visuals, and especially animations would definitely give a 2nd life to ESO. First impressions matter more than anything and impression must be absolutely outstanding and without any headaches Right now it's the opposite.

The data is there. Every major game that had a serious visual overhaul had lots of hype around it and people flocking to buy it. We're visual creatures after all.

On another point, I've also seen many people complain about ESO physics. Let's be clear here. ESO doesn't have ANY physics. It's all static. Everything is just "glued" together. Hair don't animate. Clothes don't animate.

Now for comparison, this is what WOW did 7 Years ago in a 20 years old engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsg8CeLkfZk

This alone looks heaps better than anything ESO has.
Just on this example alone, I refuse to believe ZOS doesn't have the budget or staff to improve running animations. Engine is not an excuse.

Here's another example of a game that actually has physics on clothes and characters - Conan Exiles. The game is more than 7 years old and this video is 5 years old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlkQOlmVr7w&list=PLDz1ru_5aSw7RF0zdC_SKc-t8P60JIQqB&index=4

You can see all the tiny details on clothes moving and capes and such react to movement.

And here is ESO (some random vid form youtube) https://youtu.be/Rkrl3PsBvp8?t=210

it hurts I'd take reworked animations over any other update right now.

I’m honestly not seeing what’s better. First that WoW clip… If ESO made my characters that… bouncy, as if they were made of rubber and bras were never invented, I would quit the game.

The Conan Exiles looked okay to me but not better than ESO, just some same and some different problems to my eyes. Most of all, nothing looked like it had any weight, highlighted by animations such as the character flipping their mace.

Agreed.

I’ll preface this with this is just my opinion, but, IN MY OPINION, when it comes to MMOs, ESO has some of the best character graphics and animations out there. Now, I will admit that newer single player games can have wonderful graphics and animations because they are not held back by the limitations of an MMO. And I played WoW for years and became very attached to my characters there, but I always hated their cartoony look, and, of course, before transmog it was really World of Clowncraft because of the way characters would look with the mismatched armor, but that’s another topic.

Anyway, when I first started ESO, during beta, I was blown away with how wonderful the characters looked and the animations were, and so far, no other MMO’s have changed my view on that. In fact, when I try to go back to play some of the other games like WoW, Neverwinter, STO, and others, I find them difficult to play now, because in my opinion the character graphics and animations don’t hold a candle to what we are fortunate to have in ESO even after 10 years.

Elderpatriot

I also noticed that the running animation feels so wooden more like you are a puppet instead of a living beeing. Even the frequency/animationspeed seems to be off. In many cases especially the mounts the animation sequence plays way to fast so it looks almost ridicoulus.

I can understand that such details can have a repulsive effect.

Running you say?...may be the quitting players got lucky and never stayed long enough to actually see what swimming looks like. For the most beautiful animations awards there is still a looong way to go in my opinion.

Shagreth

Tandor wrote: »

I would be interested in knowing out of the hundreds of new players that have been introduced to the game by existing players, how many of them had a TES background? What other games had they come from? I suspect this isn't a game that was going to appeal to a good many of them before they'd even looked at it. Nothing wrong with that of course, as has been said before, not every game is a right fit for every gamer, and if a serious gamer hasn't previously wanted to try ESO and has to be persuaded by a friend to do so then the chances are it's not going to appeal to them.

The only reason this game is still afloat is the IP.

As for those that raised an argument Vs. what I said, well, yeah, change is scary and if a few people are going to quit because their characters are now 'unrecognizable' so be it. Won't a few people also quit when the game finally sheds its old gen console support? Definitely, but they can't delay it forever. Change carries risk. The game needs to survive and ALSO appeal to new players, not only veterans like me and you. ESO is in dire need of new blood, it just can't keep new players, one of the reasons why is because many parts of it look goofy and dated.

fizzylu

karthrag_inak wrote: »

So the guy actually running, in the real world, with real "real-world" physics, looks less real than a 100-poly, poorly animated dwarf in a 20 y.o. game engine with trig function-based inverse-kinematic motion (them thar cosines are uniformly driving those joints)?

Ok, then.

Yes, because you're missing the point that I'm not saying the animation itself is bad.... but that it's an unnatural animation for the base movement. Even WoW with it's 20 year old engine, that just happens to perform better and be capable of more than ESO's, had animations that could differentiate between a light run and a sprint 16+ years ago. Can't find an example using the new character models, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXCiqDmxIss
Again, ESO's base "run" and sprint have no actual difference EXCEPT for the speed at which it is being shown and going. But I'm tired of trying to explain the difference between a person doing a light run in their everyday life to get somewhere a bit faster and a human who is legit down in a crouch start before running so I will not be giving this thread anymore time.

Shagreth

fizzylu wrote: »

Again, ESO's base "run" and sprint have no actual difference EXCEPT for the speed at which it is being shown and going. But I'm tired of trying to explain the difference between a person doing a light run in their everyday life to get somewhere a bit faster and a human who is legit down in a crouch start before running so I will not be giving this thread anymore time.

You are comparing ESO to WoW, WoW (hate it or love it) to this day sports the most smooth & responsive combat, with constant updates to animations, effects etc. ESO is the exact opposite, not to mention that 'meta' builds are way more fun in WoW. Tired of using Trap & Flawless Dawnbreaker for the last 10 years yet? Anyway, my point is that ESO has been mostly stagnant for the last 10 years, change is needed. I have my reasons to still prefer ESO to WoW, that's why I would like to see it slightly evolve, then it could easily overtake every other mmorpg. Hell, even FFXIV is updating their character models soon.

LunaFlora

Shagreth wrote: »

Won't a few people also quit when the game finally sheds its old gen console support? Definitely, but they can't delay it forever. Change carries risk. The game needs to survive and ALSO appeal to new players, not only veterans like me and you. ESO is in dire need of new blood, it just can't keep new players, one of the reasons why is because many parts of it look goofy and dated.

Problably a few thousands of people and not just a few people.

Of course zos will eventually stop supporting ps4 and xbox one, but please stop only focusing on them.
Way older PC hardware/software is also still supported, the pc requirements are lower than ps4 and xbox one.

surely if last gen consoles actually got dropped they'd increase the pc requirements a lot more as well and thus probably lose more people.

Windows 7 only stopped being supported with update 41. Windows 7 is from 2009, 15 years ago.

Shagreth

LunaFlora wrote: »

Problably a few thousands of people and not just a few people.

Of course zos will eventually stop supporting ps4 and xbox one, but please stop only focusing on them.
Way older PC hardware/software is also still supported, the pc requirements are lower than ps4 and xbox one.

surely if last gen consoles actually got dropped they'd increase the pc requirements a lot more as well and thus probably lose more people.

Windows 7 only stopped being supported with update 41. Windows 7 is from 2009, 15 years ago.

What about the amount of people that will come to the game and stay, do they matter at all? ESO for the most part panders to the needs of its current population, that's a very short-sighted approach if you want an mmorpg to survive long-term. Many people were screaming back when WoW had the model updates, in the end most people got used to them, and I can't even begin to imagine the game still existing in 2024 with the old models instead of the new. Many aspects of ESO require such attention.

karthrag_inak

fizzylu wrote: »

Again, ESO's base "run" and sprint have no actual difference EXCEPT for the speed at which it is being shown and going.

You know, this one never noticed that, but it does seem that you're correct. Ok then.

Tandor

Shagreth wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Problably a few thousands of people and not just a few people.

Of course zos will eventually stop supporting ps4 and xbox one, but please stop only focusing on them.
Way older PC hardware/software is also still supported, the pc requirements are lower than ps4 and xbox one.

surely if last gen consoles actually got dropped they'd increase the pc requirements a lot more as well and thus probably lose more people.

Windows 7 only stopped being supported with update 41. Windows 7 is from 2009, 15 years ago.

What about the amount of people that will come to the game and stay, do they matter at all? ESO for the most part panders to the needs of its current population, that's a very short-sighted approach if you want an mmorpg to survive long-term. Many people were screaming back when WoW had the model updates, in the end most people got used to them, and I can't even begin to imagine the game still existing in 2024 with the old models instead of the new. Many aspects of ESO require such attention.

SWG:NGE is a classic example of a game whose core content was altered in order to attract and retain new players. All that happened was that the existing players left and the game was closed down.

LunaFlora

Shagreth wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Problably a few thousands of people and not just a few people.

Of course zos will eventually stop supporting ps4 and xbox one, but please stop only focusing on them.
Way older PC hardware/software is also still supported, the pc requirements are lower than ps4 and xbox one.

surely if last gen consoles actually got dropped they'd increase the pc requirements a lot more as well and thus probably lose more people.

Windows 7 only stopped being supported with update 41. Windows 7 is from 2009, 15 years ago.

What about the amount of people that will come to the game and stay, do they matter at all? ESO for the most part panders to the needs of its current population, that's a very short-sighted approach if you want an mmorpg to survive long-term. Many people were screaming back when WoW had the model updates, in the end most people got used to them, and I can't even begin to imagine the game still existing in 2024 with the old models instead of the new. Many aspects of ESO require such attention.

i didn't say future players didn't matter.
i just said that probably thousands of people would stop playing eso.

Which wouldn't be because of not wanting to anymore.
it would be because they couldn't due to not being able to afford a new console or pc for possibly years.



And about character models i very much doubt those will change.

Though i probably wouldn't leave as if it did happen i doubt zos would change it so extremely, i can understand why people would want to leave as it is a role-playing game so our characters are important.

i can totally imagine eso surviving for another decade with the same character models though if any update gives more body customisation options that could be nice.
That shouldn't require existing characters being changed however.

Shagreth

Tandor wrote: »

SWG:NGE is a classic example of a game whose core content was altered in order to attract and retain new players. All that happened was that the existing players left and the game was closed down.

ESO doesn't need any truly drastic changes, never claimed that. (hence saying 'slightly evolve' before) better animations and character models wouldn't cause the game to shut down, that's just hyperbole. Also, the general state of said game with ESO's is very, very different. Also, they wouldn't increase the requirements by that much either, depending how they're handled. Meaningful overland with some sense of progression & challenge (as an option perhaps) would also help.

Pelanora

JustLovely wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

It's funny you say this. It's common knowledge that they've been actively developing another MMO for several years now.

What is the name of this MMO that ZOS is developing and can you please provide a link to any press releases about it?

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/careers

Pelanora

SilverBride wrote: »

I've played a lot of MMOs over a lot of years and not once have I ever heard of a single player in any game refusing to play because of a running animation, let alone hundreds of them. We are better off without players whose whole opinion about a game hinges on how their pixels run.

Jeez calm now. Look away if you don't like the thread.

Eso doesn't win prizes, doesn't get best selling game, doesn't top the most played lists, anymore, and there's reasons. Even if you love it, there's reasons.

Amottica

Surgee wrote: »

Why they keep adding new zones and quests? It's overwhelming already!

Ok, now this is a massive issue and I share that view. The game has so much PVE content (and most of it behind a paywall) that new players are right away overwhelmed. And you know what? Adding even more zones and quests is ZOS's absolute focus. It honestly scares every single person I talked with. People are mind-blown that this is where most of the money goes. And it doesn't help that the zones are extremely boring because of lack of challenge. You do this super long questline to defeat a boss that dies from a slap in the face. Many suggested VETERAN VERSION OF ZONES. The same zone, veteran server, much harder and requires a group like in a dungeon, but rewards are of much much better quality. This would make it exciting to explore a new zone in a group.

The oddest reason I have ever seen for not playing a game is that the devs add more content to keep us interested in the game.

Games die because the devs stop adding new zones and content to the game. Just look at SWTOR which has been a joke for years because of the limited content they have added. The biggest declines happened when they stopped making new zones and put quests into instances.

Even then, adding more zones and quests is not Zenimax's absolute focus. While they have had limited success they have been trying to improve the performance of the game and add QoL features.

Overall, I do get it. I have had friends that could not adjust to a different combat design when they were used to the antiquated slow gameplay we have in other games such as WOW and FF. That is fine since it is more interesting to have games do different things since we do not all like the same thing.

HowlKimchi

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok you asserted that one can not jump forward without a running start.
I, and others explained to you why your assertion is untrue.
You stood by your assertion.
I explained in greater detail.
You stood by your assertion.

Do you see the issue now?

I never once said that no one can jump forward without a running start.

I said that if someone is standing on a lower elevation right in front of a higher elevation, which is what the original statement I replied to described, they would be blocked from propelling forward until they moved back a step or 2 from the higher elevation. It would be like a wall right in front of them that the player needs to back up from to propel forward as well as up.

Its still achievable. Depends obviously on the elevation, but you can still jump up and forward without a running start.

The player would be jumping forward right into a wall. There has to be enough room to clear this which means backing up, not necessarily for a running jump but just to have a clear unobstructed path to the higher elevation.

There is nothing wrong with our characters backing up to jump up and over or onto something.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

i love that the whole thread has this b-plot about how to jump over ledges

TaSheen

HowlKimchi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Ok you asserted that one can not jump forward without a running start.
I, and others explained to you why your assertion is untrue.
You stood by your assertion.
I explained in greater detail.
You stood by your assertion.

Do you see the issue now?

I never once said that no one can jump forward without a running start.

I said that if someone is standing on a lower elevation right in front of a higher elevation, which is what the original statement I replied to described, they would be blocked from propelling forward until they moved back a step or 2 from the higher elevation. It would be like a wall right in front of them that the player needs to back up from to propel forward as well as up.

Its still achievable. Depends obviously on the elevation, but you can still jump up and forward without a running start.

The player would be jumping forward right into a wall. There has to be enough room to clear this which means backing up, not necessarily for a running jump but just to have a clear unobstructed path to the higher elevation.

There is nothing wrong with our characters backing up to jump up and over or onto something.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

i love that the whole thread has this b-plot about how to jump over ledges

Yeah. Amazing, ain't?

SilverBride

HowlKimchi wrote: »

i love that the whole thread has this b-plot about how to jump over ledges

That was one of the complaints.

Amottica

Shagreth wrote: »

fizzylu wrote: »

Again, ESO's base "run" and sprint have no actual difference EXCEPT for the speed at which it is being shown and going. But I'm tired of trying to explain the difference between a person doing a light run in their everyday life to get somewhere a bit faster and a human who is legit down in a crouch start before running so I will not be giving this thread anymore time.

You are comparing ESO to WoW, WoW (hate it or love it) to this day sports the most smooth & responsive combat, with constant updates to animations, effects etc. ESO is the exact opposite, not to mention that 'meta' builds are way more fun in WoW. Tired of using Trap & Flawless Dawnbreaker for the last 10 years yet? Anyway, my point is that ESO has been mostly stagnant for the last 10 years, change is needed. I have my reasons to still prefer ESO to WoW, that's why I would like to see it slightly evolve, then it could easily overtake every other mmorpg. Hell, even FFXIV is updating their character models soon.

The combat in WoW is a very different combat. A great many that play ESO enjoy that this game does not play like WoW. One is not better than the other as that is a personal opinion and nothing more. I am saying it is very good to have such a difference.

Pixiepumpkin

Amottica wrote: »

Overall, I do get it. I have had friends that could not adjust to a different combat design when they were used to the antiquated slow gameplay we have in other games such as WOW and FF. That is fine since it is more interesting to have games do different things since we do not all like the same thing.

Amottica wrote: »

The combat in WoW is a very different combat. A great many that play ESO enjoy that this game does not play like WoW. One is not better than the other as that is a personal opinion and nothing more. I am saying it is very good to have such a difference.

So which one is it?
That wow has antiquated combat?
OR
One is not better than the other?

Because calling something antiquated is the very essence of suggesting its no longer any good.


That being said, I don't think WOW's "slow" combat is as slow as you think it is. Secondly, WOWs combat design allows for a much much wider range of people types to enjoy all aspects of their combat. GCD and target locking allow the devs to set the pace in such a way that older players who may have slower reflexes still have a chance against younger players with eagle focus vision and master reflexes. The playfield is balanced before its ever balanced with gear.

ESO offers nothing like this. Bad connection, bad PC, bad eyes.....ya, you are not gonna survive in PVP for more than 2 seconds. Wow does not have this issue.

So you can call if antiquated if you like, but given how much money that game makes (the real measure of success), its long term popularity and the fact it allows for more people to enjoy what they are offering...well if that is what it means to be antiquated, then I'll take antiquated over "fast paced combat".

fizzylu

@Pixiepumpkin
I'd definitely argue that my WoW fire mages proc oriented rotation and my FFXIV ninjas combo oriented one are faster paced than the clunkiness of ESO combat.

Amottica wrote: »

The combat in WoW is a very different combat. A great many that play ESO enjoy that this game does not play like WoW. One is not better than the other as that is a personal opinion and nothing more. I am saying it is very good to have such a difference.

Also, I don't think anyone here was even talking about the actual combat and which was better.... but discussing the engines, their capabilities, and performance. The way I took it, with what Shagreth (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) was saying, it has nothing to do with how the combat is actually played.... but how Blizzard keeps their game relevant to existing and new players by modernizing and evolving it regularly. Meanwhile, in ESO some people have been running the same gear and bar setups with the same visuals and animations since the release of the game practically. I mean, seriously.... as a magsorc, I had to wait 4+ years for Zenimax to make my class a decent burst heal for non pet builds and they didn't even give it a new animation. And while some are okay with the game staying just as it is, some people do want to see ESO get those kinds of changes/improvements if Zenimax actually does them right.

Amottica

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Overall, I do get it. I have had friends that could not adjust to a different combat design when they were used to the antiquated slow gameplay we have in other games such as WOW and FF. That is fine since it is more interesting to have games do different things since we do not all like the same thing.

Amottica wrote: »

The combat in WoW is a very different combat. A great many that play ESO enjoy that this game does not play like WoW. One is not better than the other as that is a personal opinion and nothing more. I am saying it is very good to have such a difference.

So which one is it?
That wow has antiquated combat?
OR
One is not better than the other?

Because calling something antiquated is the very essence of suggesting its no longer any good.


That being said, I don't think WOW's "slow" combat is as slow as you think it is. Secondly, WOWs combat design allows for a much much wider range of people types to enjoy all aspects of their combat. GCD and target locking allow the devs to set the pace in such a way that older players who may have slower reflexes still have a chance against younger players with eagle focus vision and master reflexes. The playfield is balanced before its ever balanced with gear.

ESO offers nothing like this. Bad connection, bad PC, bad eyes.....ya, you are not gonna survive in PVP for more than 2 seconds. Wow does not have this issue.

So you can call if antiquated if you like, but given how much money that game makes (the real measure of success), its long term popularity and the fact it allows for more people to enjoy what they are offering...well if that is what it means to be antiquated, then I'll take antiquated over "fast paced combat".

True about calling it antiquated does deem it as no longer any good. I was attempting to denote that the combat style in WoW and FF was an older style of designing combat vs the direction that ESO and some other games have gone.

In the end, my comments do hold up since what one enjoys does come down to personal preference but also some players do not take the time to adjust to the different combat designs we have here in ESO or find it challenging to adjust.

You are correct that long-term popularity is a good measure of success and ESO has endured that long-term popularity along with FF. Ofc, WoW has been the heavy hitter since it probably still has the largest population even with the heavy decline it has seen over the years.

I would note that most of those in these forums have chosen ESO over FF, WoW, and other games. I do not see a reason why they would care about the discussions here if they had not.

TaSheen

fizzylu wrote: »

And while some are okay with the game staying just as it is, some people do want to see ESO get those kinds of changes/improvements if Zenimax actually does them right.

And that is the elephant in the room. Anyone who's been here for years has seen what happens when things get "modernized"....

Pixiepumpkin

fizzylu wrote: »

@Pixiepumpkin
I'd definitely argue that my WoW fire mages proc oriented rotation and my FFXIV ninjas combo oriented one are faster paced than the clunkiness of ESO combat.

Amottica wrote: »

The combat in WoW is a very different combat. A great many that play ESO enjoy that this game does not play like WoW. One is not better than the other as that is a personal opinion and nothing more. I am saying it is very good to have such a difference.

Also, I don't think anyone here was even talking about the actual combat and which was better.... but discussing the engines, their capabilities, and performance. The way I took it, with what Shagreth (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) was saying, it has nothing to do with how the combat is actually played.... but how Blizzard keeps their game relevant to existing and new players by modernizing and evolving it regularly. Meanwhile, in ESO some people have been running the same gear and bar setups with the same visuals and animations since the release of the game practically. I mean, seriously.... as a magsorc, I had to wait 4+ years for Zenimax to make my class a decent burst heal for non pet builds and they didn't even give it a new animation. And while some are okay with the game staying just as it is, some people do want to see ESO get those kinds of changes/improvements if Zenimax actually does them right.

Exactly. Or how much I bounce around the battlefield in my Goblin (Gnomish) Engineer Hunter. I have a much faster "pace" in that combat as far as being able to move around the playfield and "control" the situation vs dodge roll/block dodge roll, get 1 shot.

Wows combat looks slow in videos, but sure as heck does not feel that way when you are in an engagment. I still prefer it to ESO's "play it your way" class sytem, where everyone is running the same gear, uses the same dodge roll, the same vampire...its all the same. The animations, the enemy players.

You can actually read combat in wow, you can read the playfield and engage it like a master chess player, ESO...not so much.

I_killed_Vivec

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Oh, and khajiit wanted to add ...

I've tried to convince hundreds of players to play ESO

Don't worry Skeptical Cat, it was just a rhetorical device to provide some false semblance of authority to yet another "Things I don't like about this game" post.

And others piled on in the same vein - it wasn't long before someone complained about the traders.