For years I've tried to convince hundreds of players to play ESO. Results might surprise ZOS

UGotBenched91

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

I’m pretty sure they are working on another non elderscrolls mmo

ProudMary

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

I’m pretty sure they are working on another non elderscrolls mmo

Wasn't Starfield pretty much a flop? I don't know anyone who plays it.

Faulgor

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

They've been working on a new game with a new IP for several years now. Not really a secret, former Loremaster Leamon Tuttle moved to that project.

sarahthes

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

It's funny you say this. It's common knowledge that they've been actively developing another MMO for several years now.

belial5221_ESO

"The animations are awful, especially the running animation"
They aren't the best,I've seen worse,but they could be better.Most people don't care as much,since they here to enjoy the game and learn more lore.

"The graphics are bad"
It's subjective,cause lots of popular games look lower quality and cartoony.There is a big difference between older and newer content,and a graphics update to older content,especially clothing and armor, would be nice.

"Imperial City needs a refresh, Cyrodil needs a refresh"
They need true balancing,else it'll stay stale and only be populated decently during events.Change battle spirit to be based on alliance rank at 1% per level,so lower ranks will have a bit better fighting chance.Atleast newer and lower levels would have a bit more chance,and possibly enjoy it more.Maybe also either remove the telvar loss in IC,or make Cyro more challenging and make ppl lose 1/2 carried AP on death.

"Why they keep adding new zones and quests? It's overwhelming already!"
The game is more for people who love the single player series,and want more lore,and see what other areas look like that we never seen before.Without new content,like all games,it would die out cause people would get bored and leave once everything done.

"In the 1st hour of gameplay i don't have space in my inventory...This game is a chore! Oh wait.. I have to buy a subscription"
They should remove bag upgrades and start you with 140 inventory slots.Could remove mount capacity upgrades,and atart people with 200 inv slotsAlso allow mount upgrades to be one of each type per day,decreasing from 180 to 60 days total upgrade.

Surgee

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

While rebuilding an entire game in a different engine might be a bigger undertaking than actually building new game (because of how complex ESO is) I strongly believe that spending money on updating visuals, and especially animations would definitely give a 2nd life to ESO. First impressions matter more than anything and impression must be absolutely outstanding and without any headaches Right now it's the opposite.

The data is there. Every major game that had a serious visual overhaul had lots of hype around it and people flocking to buy it. We're visual creatures after all.

On another point, I've also seen many people complain about ESO physics. Let's be clear here. ESO doesn't have ANY physics. It's all static. Everything is just "glued" together. Hair don't animate. Clothes don't animate.

Now for comparison, this is what WOW did 7 Years ago in a 20 years old engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsg8CeLkfZk

This alone looks heaps better than anything ESO has.
Just on this example alone, I refuse to believe ZOS doesn't have the budget or staff to improve running animations. Engine is not an excuse.

Here's another example of a game that actually has physics on clothes and characters - Conan Exiles. The game is more than 7 years old and this video is 5 years old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlkQOlmVr7w&list=PLDz1ru_5aSw7RF0zdC_SKc-t8P60JIQqB&index=4

You can see all the tiny details on clothes moving and capes and such react to movement.

And here is ESO (some random vid form youtube) https://youtu.be/Rkrl3PsBvp8?t=210

it hurts I'd take reworked animations over any other update right now.

Sakiri

Games fine.

SilverBride

Hundreds? And they all didn't like the running animation and that stopped them from playing?

All I can say is ESO is a great game for some and not for others. If players like it they play it, if they don't they move on.

Pixiepumpkin

Surgee wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

While rebuilding an entire game in a different engine might be a bigger undertaking than actually building new game (because of how complex ESO is) I strongly believe that spending money on updating visuals, and especially animations would definitely give a 2nd life to ESO. First impressions matter more than anything and impression must be absolutely outstanding and without any headaches Right now it's the opposite.

The data is there. Every major game that had a serious visual overhaul had lots of hype around it and people flocking to buy it. We're visual creatures after all.

On another point, I've also seen many people complain about ESO physics. Let's be clear here. ESO doesn't have ANY physics. It's all static. Everything is just "glued" together. Hair don't animate. Clothes don't animate.

Now for comparison, this is what WOW did 7 Years ago in a 20 years old engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsg8CeLkfZk

This alone looks heaps better than anything ESO has.
Just on this example alone, I refuse to believe ZOS doesn't have the budget or staff to improve running animations. Engine is not an excuse.

Here's another example of a game that actually has physics on clothes and characters - Conan Exiles. The game is more than 7 years old and this video is 5 years old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlkQOlmVr7w&list=PLDz1ru_5aSw7RF0zdC_SKc-t8P60JIQqB&index=4

You can see all the tiny details on clothes moving and capes and such react to movement.

And here is ESO (some random vid form youtube) https://youtu.be/Rkrl3PsBvp8?t=210

it hurts I'd take reworked animations over any other update right now.

100% agree and well said. Love your examples as well. I think the talent is there, the money is no problem, I think desire is the issue.

Pixiepumpkin

SilverBride wrote: »

Hundreds? And they all didn't like the running animation and that stopped them from playing?

All I can say is ESO is a great game for some and not for others. If players like it they play it, if they don't they move on.

The op is spot on though. I myself have suggested ESO to quite a few people, the only one that stuck with it (and she is leaving the game) is the one that got me to play ESO (begrudgingly....I am winning the longest "I told you so" argument in our histories).

Not a single person, not one has stuck with the game for longer than a single month. It just does not have the right things in place to attach a person to the game.

WoW had a panel of psycologists on board in vanilla to help make the game fun, addicting, etc. The last class they made was the hunter and the hunter became the most played. It was extremely fun to tame an animal out in the world, name it and have it fight for you. There is nothing like that in ESO. This does not make ESO a bad game, but its just not attention grabbing like it might have been at launch.

But back to your quandry about running animations ruining it for gameplay...yep, a LOT of people feel this way. You will see your character run in game more than any other action they perform. I did not want to play ESO because it looked lame to me, I do think the running animations are bad compared to other MMORPG's and yes, I have quit games becasue the running animation along with other animations just looked bad.

Its one of those things that seems AMAZINGLY simple, but its so easy to get wrong.

TaSheen

Huh. I never pay any attention to animations....

JustLovely

sarahthes wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

It's funny you say this. It's common knowledge that they've been actively developing another MMO for several years now.

What is the name of this MMO that ZOS is developing and can you please provide a link to any press releases about it?

Pixiepumpkin

But a lot of people do, I know I do.

I approach this from a designer perspective (I am a designer IRL). If the developer can't get the running animation right, which is how your character literally connects to the world, then what else are they not getting right?

The customer puts a LOT of trust into the developer when they buy a game. Most games are not refundable. If I see that they cant get the most basic of basics right, then I have little faith that they have the proper talent for the project.

I don't like wasting my money, most people do not. Some times you can tell early on if the studio is doing good or bad based on the effort put into some of the basic stuff.

TaSheen

JustLovely wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

It's funny you say this. It's common knowledge that they've been actively developing another MMO for several years now.

What is the name of this MMO that ZOS is developing and can you please provide a link to any press releases about it?

There's nothing available so far as I'm aware. The only "common knowledge" seems to be that Leamon Tuttle was "abducted" to the new MMO as Loremaster.

However, it's been posted about on the forum for maybe 3 - 4 years now?

Shagreth

I've always said that:

Animations and Character Models need an update, then there's the overland content being overly easy. These are some of the main reasons everyone I've tried to get into the game has quit.

licenturion

Solid arguments. Especially the animations and graphics of the old zones. I hoped the anniversary year would upgrade those old zones and animations but it seems the ESO dev team is not interested in improving those aspects of the game. They rather make new font rendering, new launchers and other fluff no one asked for.

But I don't agree on content. If you start playing and MMO that has it's 10 year anniversary you basically know the content will be overwhelming. And you don't have to finish everything in a week or month. And an MMO needs regular yearly content or the MMO dies if there is nothing new to see or do for older players and veterans.

Pixiepumpkin

JustLovely wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

It's funny you say this. It's common knowledge that they've been actively developing another MMO for several years now.

What is the name of this MMO that ZOS is developing and can you please provide a link to any press releases about it?

The orginal theory (if my memory serves me correctly) was a Star Wars Mandalorian MMO, but I think that was debunked. I dunna, I dont recall. I really have little interest in other projects from this studio.

TaSheen

Leave my characters alone. I've already quit two games which ruined my girls.... I don't actually care about the animations - because they're just not anything I care about (as I already said).

And as far as the overland content, they can add an optional way to make that harder, but non-optional isn't going to fly.

Pixiepumpkin

I dont disagree, but from a business perspective what would you do?

A. Keep the animations that seemingly turn off a lot of new players
B. Make the necessary changes to really dial in the characters in game with the idea that new players may actually stick around, and take the gamble that 50% of the 5% who would quit the game becasue of the changes, actually like them.

From a business perspective, B is the only option. Long term players have already spent a ton in game, there is less for them to spend money on. New players will generate more revenue, if the game can keep them around long enough to spend some more money on cosmetics.

TaSheen

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

I dont disagree, but from a business perspective what would you do?

A. Keep the animations that seemingly turn off a lot of new players
B. Make the necessary changes to really dial in the characters in game with the idea that new players may actually stick around, and take the gamble that 50% of the 5% who would quit the game becasue of the changes, actually like them.

From a business perspective, B is the only option. Long term players have already spent a ton in game, there is less for them to spend money on. New players will generate more revenue, if the game can keep them around long enough to spend some more money on cosmetics.

Entirely true. And as I said, I don't care about animations, so if that's what happens it's fine with me. But the minute they touch my characters, I take my three annually-paid accounts off the board. Yeah, I'm aware that's a drop in the bucket. But I know I'm not the only one who feels this way either.

It doesn't matter. THAT is my "line in the sand".

Surgee

Sakiri wrote: »

Games fine.

Exactly the type of approach that makes the game not fix it's problems.

SilverBride wrote: »

Hundreds? And they all didn't like the running animation and that stopped them from playing?

All I can say is ESO is a great game for some and not for others. If players like it they play it, if they don't they move on.

Actually, yes, hundreds and yes, crappy animations we're stopping most at very start. If you can't stand looking at your character which is on the screen 100% of the time, it's becoming a problem. Not all of us are this demanding, but many are, especially when coming from other games. You'd be surprised. As explained in previous message, there's a very good reason companies spend lots of time on making the playable characters look way better than the rest of the game. Tiny moving elements, fluid animations, micro detail. That's what most gamers love and that's why cosmetic items rule today's gaming scene.

SilverBride

I've played a lot of MMOs over a lot of years and not once have I ever heard of a single player in any game refusing to play because of a running animation, let alone hundreds of them. We are better off without players whose whole opinion about a game hinges on how their pixels run.

wilykcat

ESO running animation. Has better quality textures. Tail is fully animated but not so much clothes.
https://youtu.be/2Xsti1Sc6gM
I dont let the animation quality or bugs bother me. Instead I focus on what makes the game good.

Everyone has his or her own opinion, preferences, and perspectives about the game. Some like it and some dont. I like ESO though and I dont really pay attention to the bugs along with other minor problems the game may have. I mostly focus on what I like about the game. If there's a bug or a problem, I will send a bug report, and then continue playing.

Note:
The grim focus glow, the templar jabs, neon green lasers, running animation, etc... These topics I've seen on the forums have been going on forever and new ones about the same exact ones pop up. This cycle is endless like this thread. I hope one day it will end and turn into a new custom made sweater for a moderator, which will eventually end up in the washing machine to get cleaned up.

karthrag_inak

Surgee wrote: »

Now for comparison, this is what WOW did 7 Years ago in a 20 years old engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsg8CeLkfZk

This alone looks heaps better than anything ESO has.

Skooma is bad, m'kay?

That looks absolutely horrible.

wilykcat

@karthrag_inak

I definitely agree with you

fizzylu

karthrag_inak wrote: »

That looks absolutely horrible.

The running animation is goofy because it's a dwarf with it's ginormous flat feet.... but the physics and the movement of the upper body especially (the shoulders swaying side to side) are better, and even more realistic, in comparison to what ESO is working with for sure.

wilykcat wrote: »

ESO running animation.

You mean this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goHEebEPfRw

wilykcat

@fizzylu
" Error: This video is unavailable" The video wont even run lol. I did find a gif version of the video.

Both the ESO running/sprinting animation and the one in the gif are good. They are both demonstrating different styles of running animation.

[edited for typos]

Faulgor

How much do we think this is due to the old consoles holding the game back?

PC-based MMOs had an easier time upgrading the graphics as the players' platforms upgraded over time as well.

That said, I don't think ZOS has the capability for an overhaul like this, and the game still makes them enough money. They couldn't even find the resources to overhaul the base game zones, which has been requested ever since the first DLC zones like Hew's Bane and Gold Coast looked miles better.

Araneae6537

Surgee wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Procs, cp and insane imbalance of ping in recent years. Never used to be such a divide. Some bad NA players think they good but it's just server deliberately favouring lower ping.

I've played other games, but they die because of various things. New world was closest to holding people. But the constant duping was too much. Most of my pvp guild from here play shoot and loot or arpg now.

Game engine needs a full rework or a different one entirely. It's tierd. Time to move it on.

Unless ZOS is working on some super secret new MMO, their best chance to stay relevant in the gaming industry going forward is to rebuild ESO on a new engine that has better graphics and supports a healthy PvP population.

While rebuilding an entire game in a different engine might be a bigger undertaking than actually building new game (because of how complex ESO is) I strongly believe that spending money on updating visuals, and especially animations would definitely give a 2nd life to ESO. First impressions matter more than anything and impression must be absolutely outstanding and without any headaches Right now it's the opposite.

The data is there. Every major game that had a serious visual overhaul had lots of hype around it and people flocking to buy it. We're visual creatures after all.

On another point, I've also seen many people complain about ESO physics. Let's be clear here. ESO doesn't have ANY physics. It's all static. Everything is just "glued" together. Hair don't animate. Clothes don't animate.

Now for comparison, this is what WOW did 7 Years ago in a 20 years old engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsg8CeLkfZk

This alone looks heaps better than anything ESO has.
Just on this example alone, I refuse to believe ZOS doesn't have the budget or staff to improve running animations. Engine is not an excuse.

Here's another example of a game that actually has physics on clothes and characters - Conan Exiles. The game is more than 7 years old and this video is 5 years old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlkQOlmVr7w&list=PLDz1ru_5aSw7RF0zdC_SKc-t8P60JIQqB&index=4

You can see all the tiny details on clothes moving and capes and such react to movement.

And here is ESO (some random vid form youtube) https://youtu.be/Rkrl3PsBvp8?t=210

it hurts I'd take reworked animations over any other update right now.

I’m honestly not seeing what’s better. First that WoW clip… If ESO made my characters that… bouncy, as if they were made of rubber and bras were never invented, I would quit the game.

The Conan Exiles looked okay to me but not better than ESO, just some same and some different problems to my eyes. Most of all, nothing looked like it had any weight, highlighted by animations such as the character flipping their mace.

fizzylu

Faulgor wrote: »

How much do we think this is due to the old consoles holding the game back?

Considering Zenimax has openly said things about consoles being the reason they can't make certain changes/improvements, I'd say very much.

wilykcat wrote: »

Both the ESO running/sprinting animation and the one in the gif are good. They are both demonstrating different styles of running animation.

Yes, the different running styles of what is supposed to be a robot. I am merely making a joke though and personally don't have a problem with the running animations in ESO.... but despite that, I can also still admit that the animations and physics are not that great compared to other MMOs. ESO has it's own areas it shines in, this is just not one of them. And yes.... do I sometimes sigh in distaste at the sight of my mount gliding over the ground and ricocheting off of rocks and the top of flights of stairs? Yes.... but it is what it is. Some people won't mind it, some people somehow believe it's great(?), and others will find it unplayable.