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Nerf to Provisioning/Motifs AFTER Botters Gained Thousands = HUGELY Increases Demand/Prices for RMT
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Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭jason.osage_ESO wrote: »Agree 100% with OP.
The only solution to combat RMT/Botters was/is to increase the drop rates of the hard to get and rare items such as the motifs, provisioning ingredients and style stones.
By flooding the market with these items prices are driven down and the need for large sums of gold is negated. This kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
Everyone gets their rare materials at reasonable, if not cheap prices and lessens or even removes the need for players to use RMT for gold/items.
And then what? What's the point of having a "rare" anything if you can find it everywhere?
And Bots won't use the recipes...they'll only try to sell them. If they won't use them, and people won't buy them, then the problem is negated. Now if people buy them, they can't complain about bots or any solution the company is using to stop them. You're feeding the problem and giving them incentive to continue to find exploits that will prompt a nerfing response from the company.
Simply said, if you can't deal with waiting to find what it is you're looking for or buy it for a reasonable price from a normal player...this game may not be for you.
You are making WAY too much sense there buddy. Better watch it.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »I find this idea that there was a stealth nerf interesting since I have seen an uptick in the drop rate for me the last few weeks. Guess if you hit a dry spell it must be because there was a nerf as opposed to the laws of probability.
That would probably be true, but your anecdote pales in comparison to the dozen+ threads about this issue, each with dozens of posters confirming there was a stealth nerf.
Your one sample << hundreds of peoples' samples.
The RMT seller/botter white-knights are hilarious.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 9:47PM3 -
Big_Bob✭✭✭Make motifs bounded when found and once used, you wont find the motifs anymore. This helps everyone get an equal chance of picking up the items and we can do away with motif selling as there's already enough things being sold in the game for gold.6 -
Doctoruniverse✭✭✭Yeah I agree the nerfs in this game designed to stop the bots are hurting the players severely and making the play experience much worse.2
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Catsocks✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »I find this idea that there was a stealth nerf interesting since I have seen an uptick in the drop rate for me the last few weeks. Guess if you hit a dry spell it must be because there was a nerf as opposed to the laws of probability.
That would probably be true, but your anecdote pales in comparison to the dozen+ threads about this issue, each with dozens of posters confirming there was a stealth nerf.
Your one sample << hundreds of peoples' samples.
The RMT seller/botter white-knights are hilarious.
This isn't how data works. You can't declare one set of anecdotes valid while scoffing at others. The only way to get a correct, and meaningful population pool is to have a methodology to rule out bias.
Which you are not going to get by looking at message boards. Until ZOS posts something official, everything is speculation and anecdotes, even your posts.
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universe555✭✭I purchased three motifs the other day in my guild for 400 dollars each and have found about five or six in game... just my experience.0 -
JessieColt✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »What's the point of playing a long term game if you want to get all the goods in two days?
Nice straw man, but none of the blue recipes are dropping now. Including the mid level ones. Which means you outlevel the area before ever getting one.
Which means demand for them from players is high, while player supply is low.
Meanwhile, the RMT sellers have thousands.
[snipped anecdote argument]
Your anecdote is irrelevant. There are a dozen threads about this nerf.
Hundreds of peoples' samples > your one sample.
It wasn't an "anecdote". But nice try.
The post I was replying too, and that I quoted, which you seem to have completely missed, skipped, or flat out ignored said:
"but none of the blue recipes are dropping now"
Which is a flat out lie.
They ARE dropping. The drop rate however was lowered.
Just because the drop rate was lowered, and a lot of people aren't seeing them or getting them, does not mean that they do not drop.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Yes, it was an anecdotal story. You don't seem to understand the definition of words, so there's no point talking to you.
If you want to just post off-topic nonsense, go somewhere else and vacate this thread.
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Elencha✭✭✭And then what? What's the point of having a "rare" anything if you can find it everywhere?
...
Good question. What is the point of having a rare anything? I mean other than earned rewards. What is the point? Why is it important that only a few, or a few hundred, or however many, people can make armor in a specific style? I don't mean levels here, I mean racial style.
I admit to having little experience in the MMO genre, but I don't understand this concept that some things need to be rare. Again, except as it applies to earned rewards for particularly difficult tasks or achievements. Surely no one is trying to suggest that looking into X number of barrels and chests is an achievement for which the reward needs to remain rare in order to retain its value to the winners?
Edited for BBC syntax.Edited by Elencha on May 8, 2014 10:24PM1 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭did it ever occur to you that you're not supposed to be finding motifs like any piece of blue armor?
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JessieColt✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Yes, it was an anecdotal story. You don't seem to understand the definition of words, so there's no point talking to you.
If you want to just post off-topic nonsense, go somewhere else and vacate this thread.
Anecdote: an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay.
So yes, your claim that what I posted was an anecdote is incorrect.
The true "anecdote" in this thread is the claims that none of the rare motiff's drop since the patch.
Which clearly isn't true, since both myself and someone else have looted them since the patch.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭First definition is considered the most common one. So, WRONG AGAIN!
Also the second definition, which you used, is revealed by context, "rumors and anecdote". It was used with the context of the first definition in this thread, the most common one.
How's it feel to be dead wrong, again?
an·ec·dote
ˈanikˌdōt/Submit
noun
a short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person.
"told anecdotes about his job"
synonyms: story, tale, narrative, incident; More
an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay.
"his wife's death has long been the subject of rumor and anecdote"
the depiction of a minor narrative incident in a painting.JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Yes, it was an anecdotal story. You don't seem to understand the definition of words, so there's no point talking to you.
If you want to just post off-topic nonsense, go somewhere else and vacate this thread.
Anecdote: an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay.
So yes, your claim that what I posted was an anecdote is incorrect.
The true "anecdote" in this thread is the claims that none of the rare motiff's drop since the patch.
Which clearly isn't true, since both myself and someone else have looted them since the patch.
Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 10:34PM2 -
Vartra✭✭✭Hooray, we're derailing into semantics!
It's hyperbole to state they don't drop. It's also fairly substantiated that the drop rate has been severely lowered, and a dev comment was made that they're looking into it. This leads me to believe one or more of these changes was not entirely intended or had unforeseen consequences.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.4 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Hooray, we're derailing into semantics!
It's hyperbole to state they don't drop. It's also fairly substantiated that the drop rate has been severely lowered, and a dev comment was made that they're looking into it. This leads me to believe one or more of these changes was not entirely intended or had unforeseen consequences.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Staying on topic is too hard for the RMT white-knights, I guess.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 8, 2014 10:42PM1 -
Bruun✭✭With regard to the motiffs, the only way i see that would likely work, is making motiffs non-tradable (BoP) and return the drop rate of everything back to normal. It will remove the gold sellers and relog farmers from the equation and bring back the provisioning dropsEdited by Bruun on May 8, 2014 10:45PM4
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Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hooray, we're derailing into semantics!
It's hyperbole to state they don't drop. It's also fairly substantiated that the drop rate has been severely lowered, and a dev comment was made that they're looking into it. This leads me to believe one or more of these changes was not entirely intended or had unforeseen consequences.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
It was most definitely intended. MMOs since the dawn of MMOs have made a habit of stealth nerfs to drops and they always say "We're looking into it" and then will come the subterfuge. What I really love is when a company says that the original drops were "bugs" and they brought them in line to what they were supposed to be.
Edited by Arsenic_Touch on May 8, 2014 10:47PM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
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NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB4 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭I havent seen any price increase, low lvl motiffs are still going for a few hundred each. not sure on the vip ones tho
i agree, wish they would do more to ban/freeze the exploiters after the fixesMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.2 -
Atreidus✭✭✭I agree. Motifs are almost unfindable now. This is supporting the RMTers more then an regular motiv droprate.Edited by Atreidus on May 8, 2014 10:51PM2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Binding to account will work (so they can't be traded), or increasing drop rate of motifs so they are very common (gold farmers won't be able to demand real money prices for them).
Either one will do.2 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭I agree, making them bound to acct would be the easiest fix and immediateMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.2
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BaddLarry✭✭✭Good question. What is the point of having a rare anything? I mean other than earned rewards. What is the point? Why is it important that only a few, or a few hundred, or however many, people can make armor in a specific style? I don't mean levels here, I mean racial style.
I admit to having little experience in the MMO genre, but I don't understand this concept that some things need to be rare. Again, except as it applies to earned rewards for particularly difficult tasks or achievements. Surely no one is trying to suggest that looking into X number of barrels and chests is an achievement for which the reward needs to remain rare in order to retain its value to the winners?
Edited for BBC syntax.
There is supposed to be a modicum of player interaction in this game. If everyone was able to craft all gear in all the different styles, why would you buy a certain style from another player? You're essentially forcing more of the multiplayer aspect of the game out and turning it into more of a single player game.
The MMO genre was supposed to be about a gaming adventure where you could interact with different people, explore and find interesting things, and take pride in the accomplishment of gaining a level or organizing a successful raid. Most people nowadays want to turn MMO's into first person shooters. They only want to kill people in pvp and look cool doing it. They usually consider every other aspect to be time consuming nonsense, especially when they have to work for that rare weapon or super armor.
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Malediktus✭✭✭✭Binding them will just make other stuff insanely expensive. There are very few gold sinks in the game. Once you got your inventory spaces and 42k horse there are only negligible gold sinks left. So people have insane amounts of gold to spend on what they want most. If its not motifs, legendary upgrade components will skyrocket.@Malediktus --- Ebonheart Pact, EU-Megaserver2 -
Chirru✭✭✭✭Z-Max should finally admit they lost the war against Bots. the system of ESO virtually cries out to be abused.
Z-max...get an online shop where everyone can buy cheap gold. sell it cheaper than the Bot-owners, so everyone can quite legally be cheating. those who have the most real life credits win.
as for Stealth Nerf for boxes and such... nothing Z-max will do will fix the problem apart from limiting the profit margins of gold sellers to such a degree that it is not worth-while any longer for them to continue.
all the games where in-game currency is worthless have few if any bot-problems. and if a player wants to buy millions of game credits quite legally to buy over-prized goods...well, it is their real life money they waste. like all of us, they buy virtual things we not even own.2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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No it wouldn't destroy trading. People would be better trading items that they put some effort into (crafted goods) rather than trading RNG items that no effort has been put into apart from logging in and out.
Bots are far less likely to become crafters.
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I would have to agree. Simply account bind motifs & higher level recipes.
Ends the problem.1 -
Atreidus✭✭✭
No it wouldn't destroy trading. People would be better trading items that they put some effort into (crafted goods) rather than trading RNG items that no effort has been put into apart from logging in and out.
Bots are far less likely to become crafters.
Yeah. but Motifs are the best gold sourche. And i am allways low on gold(realy low). Would love to find one and sell it for gold.
And bots wont care. Just to take you that illusion.
/edit: knowing farm spots which are only missing an trade NPC to making millions in some hrs.Edited by Atreidus on May 8, 2014 11:07PM0 -
TheWired✭✭I think we can all agree that even though ZOS is late in fixing some bugs / issues related to RMT, they DO take action and have proved that they care. I was hugely skeptical when the game started but keeping your game clean is not easy.
You are complaining about provisioning and motifs, I think I read somewhere in the craglorn PTS patch notes that provisioning as well as enchanting will get a boost so this should make crafting a little bit better.
Regarding motifs, I really don't see the problem. You can buy the lowbie ones from other players for like 300-350. The imperial one is harder to get but if you have the imperial Edition of the game, you can "convert" most of the stuff you make to imperial style by right clicking them ingame. The rarer motifs can be found in veteran content or bought from other players, you just need to know where to look and be a little patient. You have to keep in mind that motifs are cosmetic only and do not affect your gameplay in any way.
Truthfully, I'm quite happy with what ZOS is doing against RMT.
Does it impact and punish the average player? Maybe a little, but it must be worse for bots. Not being able to farm dungeon bosses means less characters logged in. Not being able to farm motifs that way means less characters logged in. Not being able to bot (well, I guess that one's a work in progress...) is also less accounts logged in; overall leading to better server stability and less lag.
Seriously... RMT can kiss my A**.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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RNG is cheap, and encourages the bots. As we can all see by how they're advertising motifs for sale instead of gold now.
No it wouldn't destroy trading. People would be better trading items that they put some effort into (crafted goods) rather than trading RNG items that no effort has been put into apart from logging in and out.
Bots are far less likely to become crafters.
Yeah. but Motifs re the best gold sourche. And i am allways low on gold(realy low). Would love to find one and sell it for gold.
There's no argument for continuing the trade of rare motifs after what we've seen happen with them (the bots have them and are selling them for real money).
Make trading all about crafted items and forget the RNG lottery. This will help to move the bots on.
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Bruun✭✭Z-max...get an online shop where everyone can buy cheap gold. sell it cheaper than the Bot-owners, so everyone can quite legally be cheating. those who have the most real life credits win.
Terrible idea. Would turn this into a definate pay-to-win system which MOST want to avoid as much as F2P2