People rerolling and leaving game over Nightblade broken/underpowered

ahspear37 · May 2014

martymart76_ESO wrote: »

That's good man. i am glad you are having fun. But I don't want to be a bloodmage. I chose the Nightblade to be an assassin hit and run stealth hard hitter. And thank you for coming here and making your case and not being a total jerk about it like many.

And it currently doesn't function for that very well at all.

Yeah I bet that's a huge pain. I don't understand why people on here are mad at you for saying you want to play a traditional class. The Nightblade appears, on paper and even in the description, as a rouge-type character that uses stealth and crit to their advantage, and depends on medium armor for a stamina boost. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong for building their Nightblade differently, just that the description of the class misleads you into believing that the primary build should be a rogue/stealth character, and it appears as though that build is broken.

Overall, I think we can agree that the biggest problem (and the one that was actually subject of this thread) is that the class isn't working as advertised. That doesn't mean it isn't working (again, I'm having a lot of fun and so are other people), it just means that Zenimax was incorrect when they told us that we could "play the way we wanted to." And it is evident because clearly, not everyone can play the way they want to. I'm lucky that I enjoy playing as a Bloodmage, because for people who want to have some diversity in the Nightblade class, they are prevented (or at least, we can agree, deterred) by various bugs and imbalances that are not present in other classes.

We can agree that, although the topic of Nightblades being a fairly one-dimensional class has been discussed many times, that so far no reasonable solution has been presented that satisfies us, the customers.

If we can agree on that, then I'd like to posit this, so as to add to the conversation:

From what I have seen, the class system just isn't working as intended. I'm sure Zenimax went into it with the best intentions, but from what I've seen the "you can play how you want" mantra has devolved into "you can play one of 3 (4 if you are lucky) builds per class through end-game content. Otherwise, I hope you enjoy 50 levels of playing, and then hours of suffering through the difficulty spike." None of the classes seem particularly suited for more than 3-4 builds (max), and even then they become shakier and harder to play as you try and be more original.

My solution is simple, and it's also been stated in other threads but I believe it bears repeating:

Get rid of the class system and allow for custom class building. At character creation, we pick three class skills from them all, and two weapon skills, and a star sign (JUST like Oblivion), and we can even name our class ourselves if we like. Then we are set loose upon the game. No re-speccing, just exactly as we made it. It allows us to still "fit" the mold of a character, but gives us more freedom, and if we don't like the build we have only ourselves to blame.

Again, it's just my opinion, but I think it would be a solution that pleases a lot of people, while still allowing the Devs to check for balance issues as the game matures.

Sorry for the Tl;dr.

Worstluck · May 2014

I am going to reach vr10 this weekend on my Nightblade and I will probably be shelving it for a bit. This class just does not perform as well as others. I do have some experience, considering the insane amount of hours I've put into the class. I've tried every spec I could come up with, I've got max level class, weapon (working on 2h though, it's at 40), armor, mage/fighters/vampire skill lines.

I just can't do what a sorcerer, a dragon knight, or a templar can do. My class spells are are too weak and broken to effectively be a full time spell caster. The destro staff skills are good while leveling or for group AoE, not so useful solo. Single target is just spam Swallow Soul, which is pretty weak. Healing-wise, I don't have the healing power or either the sorcerer or the templar. I've only got one burst-ish heal with the morphed shield from resto staff. The siphon class skills are ineffective at healing vet dungeons imo. For tanking, the dragon knight does it much better in my eyes with the aoe cc, although to be honest I've had the best success here with tanking specs. I can solo almost everything and be a decent tank with the current skills, 1h/shield and heavy armor.

That leaves DPS and guess what, the other classes do that better too. Sure, if I have legendary weapons, awesome group composition, the right skills, the Nightblade can get very good single target DPS, even with the broken skills. BUT that is one spec, pretty much the only way to play at the moment. I had initially envisioned myself playing as a kind of a shadow warlock or even a healer given that a lot of the class skills have heals, but that is not going to happen.

My concern is that with the upcoming trials, this class will be left out in the cold, unless I want to play the one way that this class is useful. More concerning is the lack of response from ZOS on the issue and the upcoming patch notes. Either they view the Nightblade as fine (oh god) or they don't know how to fix it. On top of everything, I feel the shadow class line is just doesn't fit...it's not very shadowy. AoE fear, broken shades don't seem like shadow skills to me at all. Just tacked on.

EDIT: and please do not mention the 1-50 experience. It's so incredibly easy, it just does not compare to vet content. You can level 1-50 with literally any spec out there.

Macska_GER · May 2014

Nightblade needs definitely to be fixed.
I play Nightblade too with Dual wield / Twohanded, and its not fun to play.
I just deleted my first nightblade i was playing with bow at vr3 and it was the hell dudes.
Now im near VR2 with my second nightblade and i switched from Dual Wield (lvl50) and Twohanded (lvl37) to bow again to try new various builds. I never again delete my Nightblade, i hope they fix it to make it fun to play Nightblade with bow. In dungeons you do very little damage to monster in it (vr3-4).

How can it be that a twohanded do around 1900 damage from stealth or ambush and bow only does around 900 damage from stealth or ambush? (PvE leveling)

That one of the things that should be fixed.

There are some skills that dont work as intended or desciptions are not shown. (passives as example)

Playing the nightblade with dual wield or twohanded are passable, but not fun to play.

Greetings

zhevon · May 2014

MasterLanz wrote: »

ConciseRex wrote: »

Until stuff gets patched I think that groups refusing to take a nightblade because he is a medium armour dual weilder is silly on there part. I love dungeons with my single target build as with everyone else having large AOE and good CC, me going in with AOE wouldn't make a massive difference. With the enemy's being spammed by pulse or whatever from the other guys I use my high single target damage output to dispatch of healers before the combat even begins and to pick off any enemys (usually archers) that have strayed outwith the AOE range. Although my stun lock method will be inaffective on bosses my Suprise attack still lowers his armour (even better if it stacks with puncture but I don't know) and both the Veil of Blades ULT and it's morph and Soul Shred (the healing morph?) Are very good support abilities.

Has anyone actually ever refused you in a group based on your class? I hear people say it like it might happen, but it's never happened to me or anyone else I've ever talked to.

Not sure because the person were too ball-less to say why; but I joined a group and said "Hi". And about 30 seconds later he disbanded the group. I was the only other person there. Since I have been involved in only 3 proper dungeon,non-pickup groups thats 33% of the time.

ahspear37 · May 2014

Worstluck wrote: »

EDIT: and please do not mention the 1-50 experience. It's so incredibly easy, it just does not compare to vet content. You can level 1-50 with literally any spec out there.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, as I mentioned I'm not at vet content yet, but I assure you I was not comparing the two. I understand there is a huge difficulty spike and I wasn't at all making light of that. Also, if you are saying that because I have not yet reached vet content that I don't deserve to talk on this thread, then I disagree with you. Just because I can't play for as many hours as others on here doesn't mean my opinion means less.

If this was not directed towards me, I apologize, I just feel that it might have been since I was the only one who stated that I'm not vet level yet.

Worstluck · May 2014

No sorry, didn't even read your post. I've just been involved in these discussions and there are always people who claim the class is fine but haven't reached vet content yet. I thought the class was great too until I got up there. Post where ever like.

ahspear37 · May 2014

Worstluck wrote: »

No sorry, didn't even read your post. I've just been involved in these discussions and there are always people who claim the class is fine but haven't reached vet content yet. I thought the class was great too until I got up there. Post where ever like.

I apologize if I seemed testy, I was just curious. Yeah, I know I'm not a vet content yet and that things are easier for me, but I'm also aware of the difficulty of vet content so I don't pretend to compare the two. Although I will say this: If there is such a huge difficulty spike that is pigeon-holing people into a few builds, do you think another possible solution would be to nerf the Vet content? I mean, yeah the NB class is still in need of repair, but it also seems like it's hard to play vet as a sorc that doesn't AoE or a DK that doesn't tank or a Templar that doesn't have a party. Just from what I've read, if others who have the experience correct me then I certainly won't contest it... But maybe if the Vet content wasn't as big of a difficulty raise, it would allow for more builds, which would in-turn stop crowding the PvP with cookie cutter builds that are OP. Again, there would still need to be balancing issues that need to be addressed, but could you see that being a viable solution in addition to fixes? I think it's possible.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO · May 2014

Im vet 4 and to be honest the class damage is lackluster on so many level when not running assassination wich by itself means sacrificing most survivability. You can only do a sneaking critical once per battle wich is somewhat lame else the class could actualy do whats necessary to survive. Because sneaking kill is unreliable 95% of the time I don't bother with it I just run siphoning resto vampire in heavy/light armor (only viable build to NB I know that doesn't outright constantly lack healing or get cut like paper or requires you to run the sword and board way)

bg22 · May 2014

VR7 NB, melee spec'd, full medium armor. I normally can take care of stealth killing solo players, but the damage isn't enough to take care of Templars in heavy armor, specifically. They can simply out heal my damage..

I have 2 chief complaints about the class, and one minor.

1- since the latest patch I've been targeted several times while "invisible" via shadowy guise, repeatedly CC'd while in shadowy guise and insta-popped out of shadowy guise repeatedly.

2- Our AoE damage is pathetic. Yesterday (as my VR7) I went back to cold harbor to help a friend through the public dungeon there. I slotted my AoE ultimate "Veil of Blades" and would drop it on groups or 4 or more mobs, and they would eventually die. BUT, here comes a sorcerer, lvl 47... Who proceeds to run ahead of me and take on the same groups with that fire ability where fire shoots out 360 degrees from the caster, and kill the same groups roughly 3 times as fast as my ultimate (supplemented by the dual-wield whirlwind). A lvl 47 killing these groups 3x as fast as my VR7 ultimate. Anyone else see a problem there?

And my smaller gripe, which is obvious... Buff our "self-heal". It's garbage..

Our solo target damage doesn't need buffed... It's pretty perfect the way it is. I can basically 2-3 shot casters most the time but cannot kill heavy armored targets nearly as fast, which exactly how it should be.

martymart76_ESO · May 2014

I would like to thank Kubi, bg22, ahspear, and Worstluck for echoing exactly what I said in the original post and for supporting my issues and arguments against players who clearly haven't gotten up to our level and felt the issues we have faced.

Thank you for being constructive and productive, and not being trolls or elitist ivory tower players who think their spec is worth gold to be lorded over others as if the others "want it" for themselves.

Thank you. Thank you.

Therium104 · May 2014

Lol. NB is fine. Please stop with the buff my class and nerf all the other ones please.

ahspear37 · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Lol. NB is fine. Please stop with the buff my class and nerf all the other ones please.

As far as I've read, not a single person suggested that, but I do appreciate your input.

So far, the general consensus isn't that everyone else needs a nerf while NB gets a buff, just that NB gets its bugs fixed, it's skills rebalanced, and maybe has some more skills added/changed to make them more comparable to the advantages the other classes have.

The only person I've seen to suggest ANY nerfing at all was myself, and I merely asked, as a posing question, if anyone thought that a viable solution would be to slightly nerf the Veteran content so that it didn't force people into only a few builds to be successful.

I don't mean any offense, but your comment doesn't really add anything to the conversation. If you're here to criticize people who are generally concerned about the viability of their class and curious as to what solutions could be implemented that would enrich the overall experience for others, please do us a favor and find another thread. I would appreciate it. If not, please, stay and add to the discussion

twistedmonk · May 2014

I have all four classes around vet rank 1 and I can tell you without a doubt the nightblade is the weakest by a long shot.

I never really had an idea how bad they are until I could honestly compare them together.

The class mechanics are fundamentally broken and fixing some bugs and buffing some little used skills is not going to change that.

I have zero confidence that Zenimax will do the right thing and redo the entire class....

so better not to waste your time and just reroll dragon knight or maybe sorcerer.

but honestly, dragon knight synergies and passives are where they should be.

IceDread · May 2014

ZOS_CarolusS wrote: »

Greetings everyone. This is a reminder that, while it is okay to have disagreements, we ask that all posts on our forums be respectful and constructive. Please avoid personal attacks and keep the discussion civil.
If you have any questions, be sure to review the Code of Conduct. Thank you for your understanding!

Instead of pointing out some obvious bs that some people do, how about you get off your high horse and give your customers some proper response to what is going on? Why is the game still broken? Why are we paying for a game where 1/3d of the abilities can not fully be relied upon?

Pyatra · May 2014

Big changes coming to NB according to the heads up about patch 1.1. Not sure what as they are still working on it, but that would be awesome to hear more about.

martymart76_ESO · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Lol. NB is fine. Please stop with the buff my class and nerf all the other ones please.

Your comment is a non-statement. It has no meaning or verifiable facts whatsoever, and it adds nothing to the conversation, and makes entirely too many assumptions; whereas everything we are all saying about the NB needing a good buff and once-over with the microscope at ZM HQ has been repeated, ad nauseum, by many players who have VR10 NB players, which I question if you do or not.

Bromburak · May 2014

I chose the Nightblade to be an assassin hit and run stealth hard hitter.

Well, we are great in that one!

But your burst is not coming from weapon skills its coming from your class lines in combination with efficient openers and finishers.

Just go for a magicka build and more spell damage and you will be fine.

Stop playing hybrid builds or useless stamina builds.

If you still do, please explain for what reason you are mainly using your weapon skills and not your class skills? Missing knowledge or style?

mblythe21b14_ESO · May 2014

The class lines for the class need to be reworked imo.

The only class line that is somewhat okay is our caster line... Siphoning. The DOTS are horribly low, Cripple doesnt work and Drain Power seemed buggy to me. Agony does its job and Siphoning Strikes is so good it could prolly get a nerf.

The Shadow line doesnt make any sense. There is no continuity past Veiled Strike. Path of Darkness?? Good for aoe, so why is it in Shadow? Aspect of Terror is terrible. I actually had it used on me last night in pvp. I laughed. He died. Right now I am spec'd Summon Shade. It is terrible. I regret that point being spent on such a bad ability. Those last three abilities can all be removed for something, I dunno, Shadowish. Something to buff stealth movement at all times other than morphing our best ability to do that?

Assassination needs a rework past Teleport Strike. The line is supposed to be about killing and you get garbage like Blur in it. Haste is broke and not worth a slot anyways. Mark Target can be useful for the Bow guys out there.

The lines should be set up to be melee, ranged and caster.

Assassination is melee. Move Veiled Strike here and remove Blur, Mark Target and Haste. Think up 2 melee abilities that dont totally suck.

Shadow is ranged. Move Mark Target here. Get rid of Path of Darkness, Aspect of Terror and Summon Shade. They are all garbage. Give us some awesome movement and range damage buffing mechanics.

Siphoning is kind of okay if they fixed it all and increased the dot damage.

Anyways back to work.

Therium104 · May 2014

ahspear37 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Lol. NB is fine. Please stop with the buff my class and nerf all the other ones please.

As far as I've read, not a single person suggested that, but I do appreciate your input.

So far, the general consensus isn't that everyone else needs a nerf while NB gets a buff, just that NB gets its bugs fixed, it's skills rebalanced, and maybe has some more skills added/changed to make them more comparable to the advantages the other classes have.

The only person I've seen to suggest ANY nerfing at all was myself, and I merely asked, as a posing question, if anyone thought that a viable solution would be to slightly nerf the Veteran content so that it didn't force people into only a few builds to be successful.

I don't mean any offense, but your comment doesn't really add anything to the conversation. If you're here to criticize people who are generally concerned about the viability of their class and curious as to what solutions could be implemented that would enrich the overall experience for others, please do us a favor and find another thread. I would appreciate it. If not, please, stay and add to the discussion

The make me overpowered thread or I will leave the game is pathetic but already what you guys have resorted to. Good ridden imo.

L2P. Maybe the devs can make some changes but compensate with a significant nerf to NB single target dps. For balance reasons.

martymart76_ESO · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

ahspear37 wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Lol. NB is fine. Please stop with the buff my class and nerf all the other ones please.

As far as I've read, not a single person suggested that, but I do appreciate your input.

So far, the general consensus isn't that everyone else needs a nerf while NB gets a buff, just that NB gets its bugs fixed, it's skills rebalanced, and maybe has some more skills added/changed to make them more comparable to the advantages the other classes have.

The only person I've seen to suggest ANY nerfing at all was myself, and I merely asked, as a posing question, if anyone thought that a viable solution would be to slightly nerf the Veteran content so that it didn't force people into only a few builds to be successful.

I don't mean any offense, but your comment doesn't really add anything to the conversation. If you're here to criticize people who are generally concerned about the viability of their class and curious as to what solutions could be implemented that would enrich the overall experience for others, please do us a favor and find another thread. I would appreciate it. If not, please, stay and add to the discussion

The make me overpowered thread or I will leave the game is pathetic but already what you guys have resorted to. Good ridden imo.

L2P. Maybe the devs can make some changes but compensate with a significant nerf to NB single target dps. For balance reasons.

You're just arguing to argue. It's common in this thread. NB single target parses below DK and Sorcerer according to several testers on Tamriel Foundry, so I'm not sure what the heck you're talking about, so, I can only assume you're just being vitriolic.

*shrug*

Chirru · May 2014

Hundreds of posts on this issue show the class is not on par with other classes in any way or form. Especially the BLADE part is a joke. I play my NB with a resto staff and siphoning and it does well.... oh....it is supposed to a Night BLADE.... sorry..lets rename the class and then there will be no dis- illusions.

It just levels slower and gets hit more often and dies a lot more which is fine because i can buy gold from the gold sellers to fix the over-prized armor repair costs (yes, deserved sarcasm here). but else everything is just fine...don't be so negative about it. Oh dear... Fix the class!!

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

L2P. Maybe the devs can make some changes but compensate with a significant nerf to NB single target dps. For balance reasons.

Hillarious.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

thilog wrote: »

You mean you want to gank people in pvp. Just admit it. People who prefer hiding and using the most cowardly tactics are leaving the game..

Sounds great to my templar hide.

WEll I am not leaving game over it but "cowardly" skills are needed to keep you alive when your class is major underpowered.

7788b14_ESO · May 2014

NB's should have perma stealth, which is not game breaking cause other MMO's manage to balance it out, especially as every class in this game has access to mage light which breaks stealth. Even SWTOR has a perma stealth that breaks combat so a class that specializes in one man kills can survive fights with multiple targets.

Or as intended, sneak into a camp, take out the high value target, then vanish. Those were some of the best quests ever.

Bromburak · May 2014

NB's should have perma stealth, which is not game breaking cause other MMO's manage to balance it out

Not true!

No matter if DAOC, SWTOR or WoW , perma stealth has never been balanced out and will always be an advantage with no effective counter parts in certain PvP situations.

At least Brian Wheeler and Matt had good reasons why not making the same design and mistakes like DAOC regarding perma stealth in PvP.

Same thing i have explained earlier you cannot just see everything from one class perspective only, you need to see the big picture when it comes to pvp.

Most players don't see that and they are not neutral at all, when it comes to balance things with influence on all classes.

Harakh · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Lol. NB is fine. Please stop with the buff my class and nerf all the other ones please.

We want no buff we want fixes.

- Haste dont work on Bows
- Conceald Weapon dont work after death (the runspeed in stealth)
- Impale cannot crit
- Leeching strike only heals 2,4% not 4%
- drain power the healing morph only heals when target gets damage
- and more ....

So please stop saying it is fine, cause it looks like your are not playing you NB often or maybe you dont have anyone.

gloryhammer · May 2014

Damm.. I rolled a NB, cause I wanted to be a Khajit with knives (claws) and NB seemed to be the best suited choice.. So far its nice (lvl 25), but if everyone is saying it sucks later in the game..
Maybe I'll try to level my argonian DK in parallel (lvl 15). Chose DK for him cause he kinda looks like a dragon

Dont think dragons are best knows for swiming 50% then other creatures, but it still looks suitable

Jarnhand · May 2014

gloryhammer wrote: »

Damm.. I rolled a NB, cause I wanted to be a Khajit with knives (claws) and NB seemed to be the best suited choice.. So far its nice (lvl 25), but if everyone is saying it sucks later in the game..
Maybe I'll try to level my argonian DK in parallel (lvl 15). Chose DK for him cause he kinda looks like a dragon Dont think dragons are best knows for swiming 50% then other creatures, but it still looks suitable

Try specing heavy in Assassination. With DW weapon. What I am trying out. At low levels at least, high damage. Far higher then what my DK had at similar levels.

martymart76_ESO · May 2014

Jarnhand wrote: »

gloryhammer wrote: »

Damm.. I rolled a NB, cause I wanted to be a Khajit with knives (claws) and NB seemed to be the best suited choice.. So far its nice (lvl 25), but if everyone is saying it sucks later in the game..
Maybe I'll try to level my argonian DK in parallel (lvl 15). Chose DK for him cause he kinda looks like a dragon Dont think dragons are best knows for swiming 50% then other creatures, but it still looks suitable

Try specing heavy in Assassination. With DW weapon. What I am trying out. At low levels at least, high damage. Far higher then what my DK had at similar levels.

Yeah that'll stop once you get to 50+. Then you will see DK's and Sorcerers and some Templars putting your damage to absolute shame.

Andy22 · May 2014

martymart76_ESO wrote: »

Yeah that'll stop once you get to 50+. Then you will see DK's and Sorcerers and some Templars putting your damage to absolute shame.

I noticed this depends largely on how each individual "utilized" the current still working animation canceling/block DPS "combo".

There are ofc some skill/class combinations that are better than others. I wonder how NB compare after 1.1.1+ with some of the bash/animation canceling fixed. Many DK can "weave" there skills quite effectively atm, not sure how they compare after the fixes.

I tested many skills and weapons and it always seems that if i put the values into my spreadsheet, one skill/combo outperforms most others by far.
As example "Pulsar" is the most "effective" ae spam skill u can use. Power Extraction and Acid Spray come in second place, closely followed by Carve and Shrouded Daggers.