When Was ESO at It's Best?

Jaimeh · January 5

Story-wise, definitely during the Summerset era, but the QoL improvements and generally just the sheer amount of things to do that we have nowadays are unparalleled and it would be hard to go back to previous times, even though the content quality was better. I was also not a big fan of the CP rework and the AwA change, but I'm used to them now.

derkaiserliche · January 5

2023

To me its 2023, even tho the summerser chapter was by far the best to me yet.

But for me housing gets better, crown crates get better (even tho i never buy them) and companions were a nice addon.

Redguards_Revenge · January 5

I can't really say. I can say this.

+ Sticker book
+ previous chapters added to base game
+ shared CP system on account
+ outfit system not needing to craft to change appearance.
+ making jewelry materials more available.
+ SOME daily rewards
+ Fixing the mail system to finally clear out items over 30 days
+ Some other things I am probably forgetting.

- The initial release of oakensoul ring. PVE wise I don't care. PVP wise this was horrible.
- mount lvling. It's a toll on cyro PVP.
- A lot of stuff but I won't bother placing it here.

There have been good changes and bad changes. Directions that mimicked actions of those YouTubers who kept uping the ante for prank videos until they went to far. to keep people engaged in the game but could not last forever. On initial release, that Oakensoul remains the biggest betrayal of the foundations of the game.

If that would have continued the way it did. The game would have lost it's identity. In my opinion it's already done so in PVP. They would have created sets and mythics so broken and disconnected that....well...

I will see what they have to offer this year. Did they take that time and find a better solution or did they decide to...go the oakensoul route....

You know, I always said that PVP should always have that all encompassing headshot. That move that no matter what level you are, kills the enemy....

Then I went back to shooter game recently....that game that also started in 2014. That shooter...they removed all the damage from the weapons, all the defense from the shields and told us that we had to farm for the damage and shields back or pay. Not only that, they removed the all encompassing headshot. Taking 10 headshots? That was the fastest SSD space clearing I've ever done in my life and I've played games broken on day one. That game betrayed being a shooter for profits.

What I am saying is I refuse to be the fodder for some paid bigwig just to make them feel superior over me. When wallets is the difference in skill I tend to disengage from that game.

That game...removing the headshot instant kill...they betrayed all of gaming. I still can't believe people play that game. Oakensoul...well if they kept that train of thought...the next big thing would have been the betrayal of all of gaming.

It stops becoming a game but more of a status symbol. That's not a bad thing there's an audience for that. To me a Car...is a Car.... There is no difference to me between a honda civic and a lamborghini.

They both bring me to point a to point b. They have their strengths and weaknesses. You're not taking a lambo on a cross country drive. There is balance and trade offs. Yet, certain games will make it so that they must compete by their acceleration, speed, braking, etc. Things that favor one side over the other.

Uhh wow. Didn't expect to go on for this long and it's probably simply ignored anyways lol.

LukosCreyden · January 5

Just before Update 35 hit PTS.

Things have been pretty poor since then, for various reasons.

Kidgangster101 · January 5

Brakkish wrote: »

Any prior years for me.
For me it's less about what features, and more about player population these days.

Keep in mind while reading, I'm listing these items as seen through the lense of a player who's played since 2014 and absolutely remembers population state then, watched it's continual decline through the years, and to its current state today.

Doesn't matter if it's the perfect MMO today with all the bells and whistles when population decline contributes to:
Longer PVP Queue times

Longer Dungeon Queue times

A group finder that came years too late (and now underutilized *population)

Guild events no longer a thing. (I'm sure they still occur, though I don't see them anymore as I once did frequently - any guild, others guilds out an about doing things together ie mount show, fashion show, group screenshots etc)

People not getting an abundance of responses for help in zone chat as they once did.

New players not getting crafters to respond to their request as they once did.

Zone chat now devoid of game dialogue, but riddled with the bored antics of trolls.

Diminished availability of items through traders - contributing factor; population shrink.

Ghost town effect. Once great cities now vacant shells of their former glory.

Extremely low new player retention. They come, they try, they move on. Not because a lack of content - because a lack of others to share content and experiences with.

No single entry is game breaking, but you add many of these up and it just paints an impression for a new player contemplating whether or not to invest into a 10yr old game, feeling like it's player base doesn't properly support it's own features.

PVP hasn't seen any love for 5 years, and that section of the forum is a Ghost Town now - though when you dig through older threads, the time between posts and dates will indicate a much much busier time. No love, people will move on.

Couldn't agree with this more. With the introduction of CP and after the infamous "light patch" of people remember that from pvp side. The lag in cyrodil is a million times worse than it was at the peak of pvp back around when imperial City was the first featured dlc. Idk how they do all these updates to improve lag but they can't get the game to run like it did before the lights patch.

We used to have max pop cyrodil 24/7 in azura star with way less lag than before. Moves would register and you could actually run as a group and not have the game freeze on every button you press.

Everyone can say what they want as a pve side but this game was fully designed around pvp being the true end game. They messed it.up and never showed it love and then shifted it to pve. I think they missed a very huge opportunity because if they took care of both pve and pvp side this game would be massive to this day and I would still be playing it. But all this game does is focus on microtransactions. DCUO took this exact approach and it died off fast much like the population of this game seems.

Then you compare prices per content if dlc from a game like ff14. You compare the prices and same price for a dlc (40USD) eso gives you a story you can beat in 4 hours and then 1 zone and 1 trial or dungeon, a new class every so often? Where ff14 gives you 6 zones, new classes, 7+ dungeons, 3-4+ trials, then a few weeks after they release the base dlc they offer 12 full raids and 3 alliance raids with more dungeons added in as free content updates.

Idk like I said I love eso but their focus is not the same as it once was and way too many quality of life changes were implemented years after people wanted them and already left the game.

Caligamy_ESO · January 5

2018

Wrothgar through to Clockwork City, took a bit of a tumble at Murkmire.. I am still flabbergasted every time I see that DLC in the crown store with a price next to it, seeing as how it was SO un-liked we all got it for free a month after release.

For me there was just more intrigue to the story telling back then and I liked the way it all tied together in a semi-cohesive manner. Now days if someone asked me to explain the chronological order of events in this game I would throw my hands up and send them a jpeg of the DLC release order and just kinda.. gesture at everything.

Pixiepumpkin · January 5

2017

I like the updates to the game. I like stickerbook, playing NPC's in TOT (playing against players causes anxiety for me), I LOVE High Isle, such an under rated zone. I wish there was more housing in town to purchase in game, a medium sized home.

But as far as content, clockwork city was my favorite, the other DLC's are all pretty forgettable for me. I loved the clockwork era and wish we could see more of that.

AVaelham · January 5

2018

Nothing has beaten 2018 for me so far. The Daedric Wars arc reached its culmination with a fairly satisfying ending (if we ignore a certain Daedric Prince's absolute basic looks). Summerset was beautiful and the game itself was looking optimistic to the future. In Q4 we got a quick lil' adventure down in the Murkmire muck. I was really excited for what was coming next.

Then we got the "Season of X" era from 2019 to 2022, and each time I got less and less excited for the stories presented and them being a one and done adventure that has no place in a cohesive timeline. High Isle was the absolute lowest point story-wise and everything. And Bretons are my favourite race! Ugh.

Things are starting to look better though, I enjoyed 2023 story-wise, but it felt a bit empty for a Chapter that was supposed to cover for the Q4 zone as well. Oh well. At least they've done something bold with the story. I really really really hope they're doing something with the Alliance War in 2024. It's now or never.

Lumsdenml · January 5

2023

TaSheen wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Brakkish wrote: »

Any prior years for me.

Keep in mind while reading, I'm listing these items as seen through the lense of a player who's played since 2014 and absolutely remembers population state then, watched it's continual decline through the years, and to its current state today.

Are you trying to say that the population at game launch was the high point, and it has been in a continual state of decline since then? There are always people who just throw out statements and people assume that they are true. Here are the population numbers from December (just picking a month, but it shows a trend) from steamchart. Now before you try to pick this apart with the argument "steam is just a small part of the overall population" I'll say I know that, but there are enough people on steam to accurately represent trends...

2014 - 843.5
2015 - 3,271.0
2016 - 9,664.4
2017 - 11,648.3
2018 - 12,020.5
2019 - 12,472.2
2020 - 17,804.6
2021 - 17,003.8
2022 - 14,037.7
2023 - 12,263.1

Now, it has pulled back from 2020's December high, however, my guess is that whatever they have planned for the 10th anniversary, it will pull people back in...

Eh, you have to consider covid and lockdowns in those 2020/2021 numbers, y'know?

Of course, but the trend of rising population was establish from 2014-2019, all precovid..

Lumsdenml · January 5

2023

Lags wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Brakkish wrote: »

Any prior years for me.

Keep in mind while reading, I'm listing these items as seen through the lense of a player who's played since 2014 and absolutely remembers population state then, watched it's continual decline through the years, and to its current state today.

Are you trying to say that the population at game launch was the high point, and it has been in a continual state of decline since then? There are always people who just throw out statements and people assume that they are true. Here are the population numbers from December (just picking a month, but it shows a trend) from steamchart. Now before you try to pick this apart with the argument "steam is just a small part of the overall population" I'll say I know that, but there are enough people on steam to accurately represent trends...

2014 - 843.5
2015 - 3,271.0
2016 - 9,664.4
2017 - 11,648.3
2018 - 12,020.5
2019 - 12,472.2
2020 - 17,804.6
2021 - 17,003.8
2022 - 14,037.7
2023 - 12,263.1

Now, it has pulled back from 2020's December high, however, my guess is that whatever they have planned for the 10th anniversary, it will pull people back in...

people can link steam charts all they want, it doesnt matter. The game doesn't feel as populated as it once did, and steam charts are a small amount of the games players, considering many people dont use it and a ton of people on console.

If you were here back then, fantastic. If you were not, oh well. In one tamriel, morrowind, or really any time before around 2020 i could go to any capitol city and see dozens of people dueling, countless people in chat trading or LFG for dungeons or dailies. I could go to the gold coast or hews bane or any older dlc zone and see people around doing stuff. At various points in time you would see so many people in craglorn it would sometimes be laggy.

We had multiple pvp campaign's each populated. The no cp campaign was always full. The under lv 50 campaign was always full. Even when we had BGs. You could go to imperial city and it was populated and fun.

I just dont see the population. Even on the steam charts its on a a solid decline. But all those steam charts have ever said to me is that more newer players get the game on steam than through the eso website or whatever. The games population today feels terrible compared to the past.

You can take into account that the game is bigger. That will always play a small part. But I just think population is decreasing at an unfortunate rate, for various reasons. And many vet players are being replaced by a revolving door of new/casual players. Its been happening in pvp for a long time. The under lv 50 camp is dead, and has been for years. Same with no CP. Imperial city is a ghost town, besides the regulars and the zergs that decide to plow through while waiting for a que, or to farm 2 stones off every boss they kill. Captiol cities are also nothing like they used to be, but mainly its the people dueling. Sure in wayrest there will be some, but anywhere else not so much most of the time.

And i think all of this is a result of many things. Some things are not zos' fault, and others are. Most are, to be fair. When you chase away veteran players, it hurts the game. Catering to a revolving door of causal players hurts the game. A lack of incentive and in game rewards, in all zones, across the board, hurts the game. Terrible performance declining over the years. Same old issues and the same old game plan every year. Too many useless sets, although they have toned it down slightly now.

If they just added in better rewards, fixed performance, and shook things up a bit, i feel like many people would come back to the game, and many would have a reason to stay. But they have shown they cannot fix performance, they refuse to add a reasonable amount of better rewards through the whole game( besides slightly better rewards in the 2 recent dlcs), and im not sure they know how to do things different. So here we are.

Actually, steam charts are the ONLY way we can gain any data on population that is not biased. I believe that the steam population is big enough to represent all player types relatively closely, so that data is more or less valid for identifying trends.
Population data shows we are about equal to pre covid numbers, so taking out the artificial bump covid got us, I'd say population is stable.

There are many factors that may add to a bias that population feels like it is declining... vocal people on the forums, larger world, etc. You named them. Another reason would be reducing instance caps in zones to improve performance.

Now, as far as Cyrodiil goes, I also feel the population has dropped there, but there are no was for us to measure that.

XSTRONG · January 5

2019

I started playing Eso in 2019 Elsweyr so thats when I felt eso was at its best because everything I saw in game was new and exciting

Lumsdenml · January 5

2023

AVaelham wrote: »

Things are starting to look better though, I enjoyed 2023 story-wise, but it felt a bit empty for a Chapter that was supposed to cover for the Q4 zone as well. Oh well. At least they've done something bold with the story. I really really really hope they're doing something with the Alliance War in 2024. It's now or never.

Some PVP love would not go amiss. Looking for Western Cyrodiil (Colovian Highlands) as a lawless PVP zone with no factions.

Master_Fluff · January 6

The first three years.

tgrippa · January 6

2017

For me the game was at its best when Eric Wrobel was at Zenimax.

dinokstrunz · January 6

Game always had its ups & downs, but I think Morrowind to Clockwork City updates were the best of times. Game hasn't been fun since Hybridization changes came along, sad to see really.

Warhawke_80 · January 6

2015

2015 Orsinium was the pennecal of ESO

Sempronius_Varus · January 6

2015

It was best before one tamriel where the world wasn't leveled to your character and you could go to regions that were WAY outside of your level. As soon as the One Tamriel and when they just started instead putting these stupid overpowered world/boss battles game became completely uninteresting and I hardly ever play anymore because of it.

Tyrant_Tim · January 6

2017

Danikat wrote: »

Since it's a public poll you can see the forum profiles and therefore join dates of the people who voted. People who voted 2023 as the best year joined in:
2013 - x3
2014 - x3
2015 - x3
2016 - x3
2017 - x5

I'm not going to go through the entire poll but you can if you like. Incidentally it seems the forum lists votes in order of account creation, so the oldest accounts are always to the left in the list.

Forum account creation does not indicate when a player has started playing the game, as there are countless reasons for why someone could join the forums.

Here are three;

ESO just released an AWESOME patch and people want to talk about it.
ESO just released an AWFUL patch and people want to talk about it.
Moderation forced a user to have to remake their forum account.

ghastley · January 6

Some things to consider. When the game was launched, the map was the smallest it has ever been, so the people playing were more densely packed. The engine didn’t have to figure the amount of proc sets it does now, so larger battles weren’t the same effort. Simpler is more efficient, but less interesting, so there are choices in every upgrade. If anything gets taken away, you tend to resent that, and overlook the new things added at the same time, so the past looks rosier, even if you’d actually complain louder if it was put back after you’d got accustomed to the new status quo.

moo_2021 · January 6

2021

What's the hate with oakensoul? It's the best thing happened since I joined and now all my characters wear it.

SeaGtGruff · January 6

2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Since it's a public poll you can see the forum profiles and therefore join dates of the people who voted. People who voted 2023 as the best year joined in:
2013 - x3
2014 - x3
2015 - x3
2016 - x3
2017 - x5

I'm not going to go through the entire poll but you can if you like. Incidentally it seems the forum lists votes in order of account creation, so the oldest accounts are always to the left in the list.

Forum account creation does not indicate when a player has started playing the game, as there are countless reasons for why someone could join the forums.

Here are three;
ESO just released an AWESOME patch and people want to talk about it.

ESO just released an AWFUL patch and people want to talk about it.

Moderation forced a user to have to remake their forum account.

True. I started playing at the end of August, 2017 but didn't join the forums until April, 2018. I don't think I got an email from Bethesda/ZOS inviting me to join the forums until then.

Anyway, I voted for 2023 before Danikat's post, I mentioned having started in 2017, and I don't see any 2018s included in the breakdown, so it's possible that my actual start year was used rather than my join year.

NoxiousBlight · January 6

2019

I voted 2019 because I think Elsweyr was peak ESO as far as community, player numbers, and sheer amount of fun. I will never forget my first night as a necro killing dragons - I didn't want to log off for days.

But honestly, the quality of life is much higher now. I love the sticker book, for example. And Infinite Archive is some A+ content in my book. But that magic in a bottle "fun" seems to be not as great as it once was.

Maybe i've just been playing for so long some of that magic is gone. I'm the only one of my friends who still plays. It rough looking at my friends list and seeing "last logged in 26 months ago" and the like. Life is busy now so I can't really get to know people in my guilds like I used to be able to do. But maybe that is all just me. I do acknowledge the game is objectively better for a new player now.

There is a LOT they could do in 2024 to make it better. For the first time in a while i'm actually looking forward to what they have planned.

Blackbird_V · January 6

2017

Horns of the Reach drastically changed the meta from "crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit" to more diversity such as crit % and damage, weapon damage, inbetween both etc.

It lasted a short while, then it went back to "crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit".

That combat patch was brilliant. We saw Mundus stone changes, weapon trait changes and a a lot of changes to armour sets. We've not had a patch like that since. All we get now is DK buffs, Templar nerfs, animation changes and nothing else really. Game has become pretty weird since hybridisation. It's made DPS through the roof, nightmare to balance and made thigs stale.

Back in the @ZOS_Wrobel days we had changes that made sense. We hated them then, but in hindsight they were good and needed. He designed the abilities as they were his "babies". Combat was super fun when he was in the helm & the balancing was superior to whatever we have now....? A pool noodle stabbing MAGICKA Templar doing less damage wielding a bow and increasing the power of their MAGICAL attacks by buffing WEAPON damage. It makes no sense lol.

Idk, maybe I am biased. I really enjoyed Horns of the Reach patch and getting out of the Thief stone meta...... that we STILL HAVE TO THIS DAY!

Alaztor91 · January 6

2018

Summerset is the only Chapter that has added new non-class active abilities, which is imo a far better feature compared to other stuff like Antiquities/Companions/ToT and on par with an actual new class. It also came with Jewelry crafting which is another major feature added to the game.

Also idk if it was because of Wrobel or the Class Reps but that was a time period before the whole standardization of skills and hybridization which ended up making everyone use the same race with the same gear with mostly the same skills and just cast a few dots and fill with a spammable until it's time to cast dots again(PvE DPS). There were differences between classes instead of a NB being just a red Sorc or a Templar being just a yellow DK. Arcanist is imo the only class that feels different to play but that's just because Fatecarver is a channeled skill which happens to be insanely OP.

Pelanora · January 7

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Horns of the Reach drastically changed the meta from "crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit" to more diversity such as crit % and damage, weapon damage, inbetween both etc.

It lasted a short while, then it went back to "crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit crit".

That combat patch was brilliant. We saw Mundus stone changes, weapon trait changes and a a lot of changes to armour sets. We've not had a patch like that since. All we get now is DK buffs, Templar nerfs, animation changes and nothing else really. Game has become pretty weird since hybridisation. It's made DPS through the roof, nightmare to balance and made thigs stale.

Back in the @ZOS_Wrobel days we had changes that made sense. We hated them then, but in hindsight they were good and needed. He designed the abilities as they were his "babies". Combat was super fun when he was in the helm & the balancing was superior to whatever we have now....? A pool noodle stabbing MAGICKA Templar doing less damage wielding a bow and increasing the power of their MAGICAL attacks by buffing WEAPON damage. It makes no sense lol.

Idk, maybe I am biased. I really enjoyed Horns of the Reach patch and getting out of the Thief stone meta...... that we STILL HAVE TO THIS DAY!

This is very revisionist! I don't think anyone from 2018 would agree with this....

spartaxoxo · January 7

2023

I think that now is the best as the number of features we have now are better than back in the day.

ADarklore · January 7

2023

I said 2023 because of Necrom and the Arcanist class being added. However, I definitely began enjoying ESO much more after they added companions, because before then, playing as a solo player wasn't as fun. If their next chapter is as good as Necrom, I'll be continue to be very happy with the state of ESO.

FayJolyn · January 7

2023

I started playing around Black Friday during Blackwood. So I have no idea what the game was like before that. I chose 2023 because despite the doom and gloom during High Isle I enjoyed the positive progress that was being made during Necrom. I love Sharp-as-Night, IA is ok(even is the sets kinda suck) I warmed up to Necrom the further it came a long.

I do worry about the future of the game sometimes but I also see many opportunities in the road ahead. I hope they they another look at some other systems that have been left alone for so long. Like old sets, but also activities like fishing. I am hopeful for some positive change as we have seen ZOS making some positive adjustments in this regard. the re balance of jewelrycrafting comes to mind. If the next year releases more gold sinks and more rewards for playing the game then I will be happy.

What I'm more concerned about that the other side of the coin is that the crown store wil become slowly more predatory and find new ways of leeching away money. It's the games evil twin, and while I know the game needs enough income to survive - especially knowing that live service games are gonna face a touch year ahead- I fear the over-monetization is gonna stay an issue.

Anyway I'm looking forward to the reveal. I count myself as cautiously optimistic.

Hurbster · January 7

2017

Morrowind.

Syldras · January 7

2017

Currently doing some base game questing again, and it shows that writing (both dialogues as well as quest design) was really much better - more creative and more diverse - back then (and in my opinion it did even improve for a few years, with the peak being the Daedric War story arc in Morrowind, CWC and Summerset).

They obviously also put more effort into it, actually giving the player (albeit small) choices and have even tiny side quests have different outcomes. Back then I was so naive that I hoped ZOS might decide to let us make even more impactful decisions during quests in future (or let us side with a faction, as some people hoped when Greymoor's vampire theme was announced), seeing that it was something that people wished for in the forums sometimes - but now they've basically reduced that to zero, only giving us dialogues to simply click through. Not sure if I'm weird, but I'm actually roleplaying a individual who's supposed to have his own unique character, so immersion-wise it would be a big improvement if we could actually make different choices accordingly. Or let us at least have different options to reply during dialogues.

Well, at least, the lines we have to say have been a little bit less stupid in Necrom. The previous few chapters were horrible in that regard (I absolutely despise High Isle).