What is wrong with Veteran content...

Xnemesis · April 2014

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I LOVE the stick but its missing the carrot.

Couldn't have said it better :P

Hexi wrote: »

You also have Craglorn or whatever coming next month, which if for vr10 people.

I really hate to sound pessimistic but the thing is that many will cancel theirs subs before they actually get to vr10 because of the reasons I mention in the post. My friend list is already "full" of VR1 players who hardly log in any more. Do you know what that means?(forgot to mention this in the OP!)

And even if they do release Crag, what is expected there? An item upgrade that is not menial? More skill points (where will we put them - ok don't answer this one)?

Just a heads up Craiglorn is for VR1 as well, the trials are for VR11-12 This was discussed in an AMA with Matt

I know, but let's not kid ourselves. Who would go at VR1 at crag? None at VR1 should even go at the first dungeons - they are pretty hard for VR1.

Also what will crag offer? More skill points? Where should I put them? In my orifice? Items? The difference itemization makes can hardly be considered important.

What we need is character development. Skill lines and skills designed to be maxed at VR10 - NOT just 50 lvl. Skills we will look forward to in veteran ranks. That's what we need. Why do you think that Cold H. is teeming with people, whereas VR areas are much less populated? Why aren't my friends who reached VR1 and VR2 logging any more? Until they understand this mistake, it will be too damn late.

Apparently ZoS thinks VR1 is a good level to venture into craiglorn... Just saying

BIG CHANGES / UPDATES / NEW FEATURES

PTS Templates
Because Craglorn is intended for Veteran Rank characters, we’re providing character templates to PTS testers. To use the template, select it from the drop-down menu in the top left of the character creation screen, and then create a new character normally. When you log in, you’ll be placed in Belkarth at level 50 with the appropriate Veteran Rank, skill points to spend, and starting gear.

Craglorn
An Adventure Zone designed for groups of four Veteran Rank characters to explore, located between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. A new quest available in Mournhold, Wayrest, and Elden Root will lead you to the zone.

Read more on TESO Elite: http://www.tesoelite.com/2014/04/pts-patch-notes-1-1-0/#ixzz30IZpeQyi

South_of_Heaven · April 2014

Xnemesis wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I LOVE the stick but its missing the carrot.

Couldn't have said it better :P

Hexi wrote: »

You also have Craglorn or whatever coming next month, which if for vr10 people.

I really hate to sound pessimistic but the thing is that many will cancel theirs subs before they actually get to vr10 because of the reasons I mention in the post. My friend list is already "full" of VR1 players who hardly log in any more. Do you know what that means?(forgot to mention this in the OP!)

And even if they do release Crag, what is expected there? An item upgrade that is not menial? More skill points (where will we put them - ok don't answer this one)?

Just a heads up Craiglorn is for VR1 as well, the trials are for VR11-12 This was discussed in an AMA with Matt

I know, but let's not kid ourselves. Who would go at VR1 at crag? None at VR1 should even go at the first dungeons - they are pretty hard for VR1.

Also what will crag offer? More skill points? Where should I put them? In my orifice? Items? The difference itemization makes can hardly be considered important.

What we need is character development. Skill lines and skills designed to be maxed at VR10 - NOT just 50 lvl. Skills we will look forward to in veteran ranks. That's what we need. Why do you think that Cold H. is teeming with people, whereas VR areas are much less populated? Why aren't my friends who reached VR1 and VR2 logging any more? Until they understand this mistake, it will be too damn late.

Apparently ZoS thinks VR1 is a good level to venture into craiglorn... Just saying

BIG CHANGES / UPDATES / NEW FEATURES

PTS Templates
Because Craglorn is intended for Veteran Rank characters, we’re providing character templates to PTS testers. To use the template, select it from the drop-down menu in the top left of the character creation screen, and then create a new character normally. When you log in, you’ll be placed in Belkarth at level 50 with the appropriate Veteran Rank, skill points to spend, and starting gear.

Craglorn
An Adventure Zone designed for groups of four Veteran Rank characters to explore, located between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. A new quest available in Mournhold, Wayrest, and Elden Root will lead you to the zone.

Read more on TESO Elite: http://www.tesoelite.com/2014/04/pts-patch-notes-1-1-0/#ixzz30IZpeQyi

Did you read the patch notes yourself?

Craglorn’s quests and exploration are designed for groups of four Veteran Rank 10+ characters.

Plus even if we could go there at VR1 what would the difference be? The problem described in the OP is not about lack of content. It's about lack of character development during this content.

neocomab16_ESO · April 2014

Malediktus wrote: »

Why does the game need "endgame" if there is a constant flow of leveling content? Imho endgame is a terrible word.

Let me clear this up with an anology. Imagine you plan to spend your holidays in an awesome magical paradise. Everything is great there and beautyful. Lots of exciting activities that are provided and stuff. Now, you get in your car and start driving. Problem is ...you never make it to the magical place.

The end of your trip is the endgame. the drive is the leveling process. You never make it to your destination = no endgame, only leveling.

In other words, most MMOers just wanna be done with the drive and enjoy their holidays. TESO, however, focuses heavily on the trip itself instead of creating a magical holiday experience. That is the problem.

Or just say, while leveling to 50 your car is fully tanked, your tires are filled with air ...you have a rather smooth drive. Once hitting 50, though, you suffer from at least one flat tire ...which makes the trip take even longer

Natjur · April 2014

Balance. If they make veteran levels any more powerful, it will break PVP even more then it does now. A V10 can take down a few L50's

V1-V10 to me appears balanced already. Its mostly about getting extra skill points to allow you to have a few different builds (tank, dps, heal) and max out some crafting.

A V10 player should not be that much more powerful then a L50 player

South_of_Heaven · April 2014

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

Malediktus wrote: »

Why does the game need "endgame" if there is a constant flow of leveling content? Imho endgame is a terrible word.

Let me clear this up with an anology. Imagine you plan to spend your holidays in an awesome magical paradise. Everything is great there and beautyful. Lots of exciting activities that are provided and stuff. Now, you get in your car and start driving. Problem is ...you never make it to the magical place.

The end of your trip is the endgame. the drive is the leveling process. You never make it to your destination = no endgame, only leveling.

In other words, most MMOers just wanna be done with the drive and enjoy their holidays. TESO, however, focuses heavily on the trip itself instead of creating a magical holiday experience. That is the problem.

Or just say, while leveling to 50 your car is fully tanked, your tires are filled with air ...you have a rather smooth drive. Once hitting 50, though, you suffer from at least one flat tire ...which makes the trip take even longer

Let me tell you a story son. (just kidding :P)

It's because of human nature. (To Malediktus)
You know "end-game" didn't exist in the past. Almost none used this term.

"End-game" came because of the need for equality among players. There used to be games with huge level caps - almost impossible to reach and people didn't call leveling as "the leveling process".

Leveling was not a drive to reach the resort. You entered the resort as soon as you started playing the game (which is the way is should be). In many games raids were available to everyone (and weren't instanced). Long and impossible caps were actually better because none rushed to the cap. They could enjoy the journey (as all the content was available to them from level 1).

Things have changed though. As more people started playing games, they complained about the terrible inequality that long caps caused among players. They wanted to be able to compete with the players investing amazing amounts of time in these games.

Thus short caps started becoming popular and the leveling process was reduced to a drudgery, compelling players to rush through it and was something to get over with as fast as possible. With these short caps the game had to stuff that content somewhere, thus (I really like using thus) the "end game" was born...

This is the real story of how.. ye whatever let's discuss what I write in the topic now? :P

SuperScrubby · April 2014

I don't mind grinding for exp as long as there's a carrot at the end. I would have enjoyed spending more time grinding 1-50 than hitting it super quick with very little effort.

It trivializes content and then you hit a giant wall with VR content which takes forever. To the person that said they got more quests rewards than 1500 VP, Yes you get 1550 per quest unless its the main story quest.

That's painful considering you need around 500k exp to get the VR2. I don't mind quests, but a having to do 50+ quests per zone is incredibly boring. I like quests to break up the monotony and add some different stories, but let's be honest all of the quests are not well written or meaningful in any manner.

You could easily axe half the quests in the zone and allow people to actually explore and be forced to fight the mobs in the dungeons and outside. Instead you can do a lot of quests without actually fighting or really doing anything. I personally am not looking forward to continuing my VR grind because while questing is fun, I dont' want that the be the only way for me to gain exp. I'll either end up unsubbing or grinding just the main story quests and grind group dungeons over and over and over again. Which also isn't a ton of fun since it's basically the same as questing.

vanillasada · April 2014

I completely agree with this. The veteran ranks are a good idea with how you get to explore the other faction areas, but they're just not fun at all to push through. I myself am VR4, and I have basically no will to keep leveling. I'd have to basically force myself to keep going, which isn't good. I have a lot of people on my friends list as well who have gotten a little ways into vet ranks and stopped, barely logging on now.

South_of_Heaven · May 2014

vanillasada wrote: »

I completely agree with this. The veteran ranks are a good idea with how you get to explore the other faction areas, but they're just not fun at all to push through. I myself am VR4, and I have basically no will to keep leveling. I'd have to basically force myself to keep going, which isn't good. I have a lot of people on my friends list as well who have gotten a little ways into vet ranks and stopped, barely logging on now.

I haven't logged in two weeks and I do not feel like doing so. I am a fan of hardcore slow leveling etc and I only managed to get to VR2 before I was bored out of my mind, mostly for the reasons I mentioned in the OP. It just doesn't feel like you are playing an rpg anymore. VR4... I admire your endurance!

Rippah · May 2014

Let me respect for free as Veteran!

FFS why make me pay 1000's just to change one of my morphed skills for instance...

There is nothing else to do for 10 veteran levels except to play with different builds. But the cost is prohibitive... why *** my purse just so i can at least try things in these levels when there is sweet FA other character development or change???

Phazzle · May 2014

Skimming the posts on the first page, I tend to agree with players who expressed their frustration with the busywork of Veteran content. I also don't relish the idea of playing through low-level content several times. I would much rather do this on an alt. The mountain that we have to climb to get to Craglorn is quite steep. I hope that once we get there it will be worth it.

That doesn't change the fact that the game is quite enjoyable overall.

Shanna · May 2014

I maxed everything on my chosen skill tree before hitting 50...now I'm just building up skill points. Not being able to level up my chosen skills past V (or full IV bar) is frustrating. I'm reluctant to try a whole new, undeveloped, set of skills out on V1+ level mobs, but I guess I should. I don't like all the experience gained going absolutely nowhere in regard to skills.

Soloeus · May 2014

What is wrong?

You lose all sense of further advancement. "Maybe after a month of this crap, I will gain a VR level."

By the time you gain a skill point for a 10 part quest, you just don't feel compensated for your effort.

The only upside is you can safely own equipment for more than 3 hours before never using it again due to outgrowing it too quickly.

Fuzzylumpkins · May 2014

Veteran content put me directly in line with exactly what I did not ever want from an rvr game. To sympathize with the enemy. It has taken away 100% of all drive I have to enter Cyrodil as I have no known enemy now. I play with their races, have done their content and feel no loyalty tot he realm I selected.

So pretty much VR content took any reason away from me to play. If it wasn't enough to try and get over all the craptastic pve hurdles and progression blocking bugs on my way to VR10 in the first place.

Ravinsild · May 2014

They messed up the carrot on the stick for veteran content because the rewards you get do not feel very rewarding and thus you do not feel compelled to continue.

I have gotten a Veteran Rank 2 Nightblade and got BORED. It wasn't "too hard" or "challenging" or anything...my Nightblade is just a one trick pony that going boring.

I then leveled up a Templar to veteran rank 4...then decided I wanted to try out the Werewolf tree...giving up vampirism. At that stage the content went from challenging to impossible as I no longer had two additional moves for sustaining myself aside from my class heal. This then discouraged me and I rerolled out of frustration.

Now I have a level 38 Dragon Knight...we will see if I can finally make it through the slog to VR10. BTW The few VR10's I know say they have nothing to do.

This game, KNOWING FULL WELL why SWTOR failed....STILL had NO END GAME READY by launch. A critical failure if you ask me.

We will see who is left to play after a month or two if they don't ship something soon.

EDIT: By the way at Rank 40 in your professions you will have every single skill point in that profession that you can have. I have no idea what the last 10 ranks are for, because you can't advance the skill progression in the profession after rank 40.

elblobbob14_ESO · May 2014

I think the only reason I am enjoying Vet content is because I skipped the first two zones and starting playing through the V4 content as a V1. It's actually made me pay attention to each and every encounter. I've had to explore some of my lesser used skills to try and find the right combinations for different mobs. I made it to V2 and still have about 1/2 the Alik’r Desert left so it's not even feeling like a "grind".

concobar · May 2014

PvP is the end game you noobs.

neocomab16_ESO · May 2014

pvp is quite boring if you ask me.

South_of_Heaven · May 2014

concobar wrote: »

PvP is the end game you noobs.

Yea but you essentially have to go through 2/3 of the game (10VR ranks) eventually, even for pvp. Plus pvp is surely fun but ultimately it has no impact in general. Neither on your character nor on your faction. Only emperorship essentially has some.

Jade1986 · May 2014

concobar wrote: »

PvP is the end game you noobs.

When they were hyping this game they said "We will have endgame pve content and endgame pvp content" Well, now there is only endgame pvp content, and ZERO endgame pve content for people that don't want to grind through VR1-10.