Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

EdjeSwift wrote: »

HalfDragoness wrote: »

Can visions be more powerful if you are doing solo, but automatiucally become the normal strength if someone joins your gorup?

I don't think this is in the plans because as we have noticed outside of the mini-games the Archive is aimed for duos. The mob density/difficulty doesn't change regardless of duo or solo. I do believe that it is designed for duos with solo being an option for those who want the challenge/don't like grouping.

Not only that, but Endless Archive is set up so that a solo can be joined by someone and continue as a duo, or someone can leave the duo and the remaining player can continue as a solo (although as a duo on the leaderboard). In the latter case, another player can apparently join the solo and it will become a duo again.

Having different power for verses and visions would be an obvious exploit path.

right now if you start solo (no companion), and someone joins, it switches the instance to duo permanently

it even gives you a warning that it will switch your instance to duo if you do so

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

redsaaryn wrote: »

i have no issue with EA except for the final boss. I'm a stamina nightblade so I have to go up close and personal. but, the issue is that the boss constantly drops AOE and stays within the AOE so I either go into the AOE to do damage and lose hp or just stay still hoping he would move but even if he moves he just moves to the next AOE not to mention he hits like a truck and being forced to dodgeroll more than 2 times in a row ruins it. you are already spending stamina in chasing the boss, in breaking free, in defending, in attacking so being forced to dodge roll with no stamina by a 1 hit ko attack is a sure way to frustrate people!

the first time I finished the EA was by joining another player, a tank who helped me with the final boss. and let me tell you something. i was able to finish the entire EA from beginning to end not by myself, not with my own effort but because a kind person carried me all the way to finishing it. i was able to realize i would never finish it by myself, after arc 3 common enemies would 1 hit me. the guy carrying me was a tank and a godly tank because he kept reviving me while mobs ganged on him, and I'm not talking about 2 or 3 but up to 7 enemies plus a miniboss all attacking him and he bashes a few times then ult then goes to revive me for me to move away try to do damage help him and then be killed because one enemy lost the taunt and targetted me. spoiler alert. in the last boss, the dragon, he was constantly reviving me even there with the final boss attacking him.

that experience showed me that the EA is for cp999999999999999999999 players so the lowly average guys like me will never be able to experience the end of it unless we are carried, I would recommend do a baby mode and a normal mode then a ESO god player mode that way people can get the dumb rewards from the EA and be done with it. you have no idea how annoying it is to find other players who want to do EA and the group finder doesn't work most of the times because it is usually bugged, specially when it comes to dungeons

You just have to kite the boss in circles away from the AOEs. And he only drops the AOEs on your location, so as long as you aren't standing still in one spot, they are practically nothing to deal with.

On top of that, only 1 thing the boss physically does actually hurts you, and that is the extremely telegraphed heavy attack, which you have like 3 seconds to hit block before he hits you with it.

If you are roll dodging in ARC 1, you are doing it wrong. If you are chasing the boss, you are oddly doing it wrong since the boss literally walks right to you. The boss also doesn't stun you at all, so no clue why you would be breaking free at any point.

Yes, and as a melee I use sticky DoTs and auto-targeting range effects while kiting and looking for blobs. Use a gap closer to damage and then just walk out of the silver pools. Hard to die to early Tho'ats with this strategy.

Well, too bad you want to melee there xD
To refer, I play a melee (magicka) DD or a tank in most PvE situations. The first few runs in my glass cannon build made it quite obvious that not only you should play tanky, but also that range is one of the most important things in this arena.
How are you going to snare and kite all the incoming melee damage when you are melee?

I am visually impaired and don't do as well with ranged attacks as I do with melee range combat. And I agree with you, ranged would be preferable in the Tho'at fights.

melee works OK in there, the only portion of the tho'at fight that doesnt work well is the ice atro because it ports around a lot, and/or is surrounded by tentacles

ground dots also dont work great in tho'at fights because of how much you have to move/kite everything (ice patches and eye beams), so more sticky dots + a gap closer to get to the ice atro faster

i would heavily recommend having a staff on hand to be able to cast ele sus, as that skill is extremely potent with focused efforts, and costs no resources

I have pretty good success with close quarters staff, my nightblade runs Noble Duelist and gap closes with Ambush to proc ND and Empower for the heavies. Other set is Unleashed Terror, which procs off the Ambush and applies a sticky DoT as well as a new status effect every tick. It's not as tanky as the DK, Templar or Sorc shield builds, but is good enough to get the daily done in a short amount of time.

if your just going through arc 1 you dont even really need shields (though they do help), just a heal over time and maybe a burst heal and you should be fine

SeaGtGruff · December 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I also still have problems with some of the stage bosses. I do fine on most of them but every now and then I get what must be a trial boss and just can't make it past. It seems to me that these bosses should increase in difficulty as we progress through the Arcs rather than trial bosses appearing in the lower Arcs.

First of all, congratulations on your progress!

As far as trial bosses appearing in the lower arcs, I sort of feel the same way, but I'm conflicted about it.

On the one hand, I think it's kind of nice that in Arc 1 I'm able to encounter bosses I've never seen before from DLC dungeons, arenas, and trials, because it gives me the opportunity to meet them and get to know them.

But on the other hand, I think it's potentially misleading to become familiar with a previously-unknown boss in Arc 1, only to discover later on that their mechanics and difficulty are quite different "in real life."

I'll give an example using a boss I was already familiar with from a dungeon before encountering her in the Endless Archive-- Selene from Selene's Web. As a solo player whose main is somewhat tanky with mediocre DPS at best, I find the final fight in Selene's Web (on Normal mode) to be challenging due to all of the adds. I can get through it, but it's a real slog. However, in Arc 1 of the Endless Archive her adds are totally different than in the final fight of Selene's Web, and her mechanics are toned down, making the fight much easier. I've watched other players on Twitch fighting her during higher arcs, and it seems like it's basically the same as in Arc 1 except (I assume) the adds spawn more frequently and her health is higher. But the point is, she bears only a passing resemblance in Endless Archive to what she's like in Selene's Web.

And I'm conflicted about that, too, because while it does seem like players who've never run Selene's Web before could get misled by the way she is in Endless Archive, it's also nice that she's been reworked a bit so the fights in Endless Archive can be quicker to get through as well as potentially more interesting in the sense that we're getting "fresh takes on old bosses" so to speak.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about this particular issue, so I'm not sure whether I'd like to see ZOS make changes to "fix" this or just leave it the way it is now. /shrug

EdjeSwift · December 2023

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I'll give an example using a boss I was already familiar with from a dungeon before encountering her in the Endless Archive-- Selene from Selene's Web. As a solo player whose main is somewhat tanky with mediocre DPS at best, I find the final fight in Selene's Web (on Normal mode) to be challenging due to all of the adds. I can get through it, but it's a real slog. However, in Arc 1 of the Endless Archive her adds are totally different than in the final fight of Selene's Web, and her mechanics are toned down, making the fight much easier. I've watched other players on Twitch fighting her during higher arcs, and it seems like it's basically the same as in Arc 1 except (I assume) the adds spawn more frequently and her health is higher. But the point is, she bears only a passing resemblance in Endless Archive to what she's like in Selene's Web.

That's because that's the wrong Selene.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Lair+of+Maarselok

This is the Selene you're looking for. The mechanics are pretty close. Same "character" just further down the story.

ESO_player123 · December 2023

I reached only mid arc 3 (past 2 bosses I think) and I feel that at that point trash packs became harder that the bosses that I've seen there. Feels a bit weird.

Edit: I'm not saying that the bosses need to be adjusted. It's the strength of the trash packs that seems weird.

SeaGtGruff · December 2023

EdjeSwift wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I'll give an example using a boss I was already familiar with from a dungeon before encountering her in the Endless Archive-- Selene from Selene's Web. As a solo player whose main is somewhat tanky with mediocre DPS at best, I find the final fight in Selene's Web (on Normal mode) to be challenging due to all of the adds. I can get through it, but it's a real slog. However, in Arc 1 of the Endless Archive her adds are totally different than in the final fight of Selene's Web, and her mechanics are toned down, making the fight much easier. I've watched other players on Twitch fighting her during higher arcs, and it seems like it's basically the same as in Arc 1 except (I assume) the adds spawn more frequently and her health is higher. But the point is, she bears only a passing resemblance in Endless Archive to what she's like in Selene's Web.

That's because that's the wrong Selene.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Lair+of+Maarselok

This is the Selene you're looking for. The mechanics are pretty close. Same "character" just further down the story.

Ah, thank you for that explanation! I guess you can tell that I've never run Lair of Maarselok.

mercer_cap · December 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

redsaaryn wrote: »

i have no issue with EA except for the final boss. I'm a stamina nightblade so I have to go up close and personal. but, the issue is that the boss constantly drops AOE and stays within the AOE so I either go into the AOE to do damage and lose hp or just stay still hoping he would move but even if he moves he just moves to the next AOE not to mention he hits like a truck and being forced to dodgeroll more than 2 times in a row ruins it. you are already spending stamina in chasing the boss, in breaking free, in defending, in attacking so being forced to dodge roll with no stamina by a 1 hit ko attack is a sure way to frustrate people!

the first time I finished the EA was by joining another player, a tank who helped me with the final boss. and let me tell you something. i was able to finish the entire EA from beginning to end not by myself, not with my own effort but because a kind person carried me all the way to finishing it. i was able to realize i would never finish it by myself, after arc 3 common enemies would 1 hit me. the guy carrying me was a tank and a godly tank because he kept reviving me while mobs ganged on him, and I'm not talking about 2 or 3 but up to 7 enemies plus a miniboss all attacking him and he bashes a few times then ult then goes to revive me for me to move away try to do damage help him and then be killed because one enemy lost the taunt and targetted me. spoiler alert. in the last boss, the dragon, he was constantly reviving me even there with the final boss attacking him.

that experience showed me that the EA is for cp999999999999999999999 players so the lowly average guys like me will never be able to experience the end of it unless we are carried, I would recommend do a baby mode and a normal mode then a ESO god player mode that way people can get the dumb rewards from the EA and be done with it. you have no idea how annoying it is to find other players who want to do EA and the group finder doesn't work most of the times because it is usually bugged, specially when it comes to dungeons

You just have to kite the boss in circles away from the AOEs. And he only drops the AOEs on your location, so as long as you aren't standing still in one spot, they are practically nothing to deal with.

On top of that, only 1 thing the boss physically does actually hurts you, and that is the extremely telegraphed heavy attack, which you have like 3 seconds to hit block before he hits you with it.

If you are roll dodging in ARC 1, you are doing it wrong. If you are chasing the boss, you are oddly doing it wrong since the boss literally walks right to you. The boss also doesn't stun you at all, so no clue why you would be breaking free at any point.

Yes, and as a melee I use sticky DoTs and auto-targeting range effects while kiting and looking for blobs. Use a gap closer to damage and then just walk out of the silver pools. Hard to die to early Tho'ats with this strategy.

Well, too bad you want to melee there xD
To refer, I play a melee (magicka) DD or a tank in most PvE situations. The first few runs in my glass cannon build made it quite obvious that not only you should play tanky, but also that range is one of the most important things in this arena.
How are you going to snare and kite all the incoming melee damage when you are melee?

I am visually impaired and don't do as well with ranged attacks as I do with melee range combat. And I agree with you, ranged would be preferable in the Tho'at fights.

Oh sorry, I didn't knew that when I wrote my comment.

Ranged is also very nice in the add fights though. There are some heavy hitters which i'd rather not block/dodge if not needed since stamina can also run out easily if pushing it too much. The frost support helps a lot with that.

CGPsaint · December 2023

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I reached only mid arc 3 (past 2 bosses I think) and I feel that at that point trash packs became harder that the bosses that I've seen there. Feels a bit weird.

Edit: I'm not saying that the bosses need to be adjusted. It's the strength of the trash packs that seems weird.

The trash adds health increases with each Arc to the point where it becomes a grind just to kill adds. Leaderboard rewards are incredibly underwhelming, so I basically blitz through to the end of Arc 3 which nets me 5 drops if I kill the Marauders in Arcs 2 and 3. Then I reset and start again if I have nothing better to do.

SilverBride · December 2023

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Araneae6537 · December 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

ESO_player123 · December 2023

CGPsaint wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I reached only mid arc 3 (past 2 bosses I think) and I feel that at that point trash packs became harder that the bosses that I've seen there. Feels a bit weird.

Edit: I'm not saying that the bosses need to be adjusted. It's the strength of the trash packs that seems weird.

The trash adds health increases with each Arc to the point where it becomes a grind just to kill adds. Leaderboard rewards are incredibly underwhelming, so I basically blitz through to the end of Arc 3 which nets me 5 drops if I kill the Marauders in Arcs 2 and 3. Then I reset and start again if I have nothing better to do.

Yes, today I reached 4.4.1. And again, all my deaths except one (a Marauder in arc 4 shot me before I even had a chance to register that it spawned and ate my extra life) were by the vicious trash packs. I would say that it's weird that the trash mobs hit so hard yet drop absolutely nothing even though they seem harder than the bosses. May be tone them down a bit?

Edit: for me personally the 3rd Tho'at was less stressful than the packs in arc 4.

SilverBride · December 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

I tried an Arcanist, a Templar, a No Pet Sorcerer and a Pet Sorcerer and found that the Pet Sorcerer did the best against Tho'at. So I found an Oakensoul Heavy Attack EA build for her that is working very well. (It's been really nice for battlegrounds, too.)

I finally got Flier's Wing yesterday after a few days of nonstop grinding for it. That was grueling. But now I have all the unknown portal objectives and just need 3 more visions/verses to complete those.

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

my ideal character for going far is my warden, set up as a tank, i can solo at least through arc 4 with that (but it can be slow with the wrong visions/verses

the other night ran it with a friend who had never been in the archive before (hed been on vacation since u40 launch), and we got to arc 10 lol

my other dps toons definitely put out a lot of pain but its very hard going past arc 4 unless that character has a tank partner, if im trying to do a quick arc 4 run i use my arcanist with another person, cleared arc 4 in 1 hour 45 min with basically 2 dps slightly tanky

edit: also z'maja does not show up in archive, the one that shows in archive is z'baza which is the 4th secret boss in coral aerie

redsaaryn · December 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

redsaaryn wrote: »

i have no issue with EA except for the final boss. I'm a stamina nightblade so I have to go up close and personal. but, the issue is that the boss constantly drops AOE and stays within the AOE so I either go into the AOE to do damage and lose hp or just stay still hoping he would move but even if he moves he just moves to the next AOE not to mention he hits like a truck and being forced to dodgeroll more than 2 times in a row ruins it. you are already spending stamina in chasing the boss, in breaking free, in defending, in attacking so being forced to dodge roll with no stamina by a 1 hit ko attack is a sure way to frustrate people!

the first time I finished the EA was by joining another player, a tank who helped me with the final boss. and let me tell you something. i was able to finish the entire EA from beginning to end not by myself, not with my own effort but because a kind person carried me all the way to finishing it. i was able to realize i would never finish it by myself, after arc 3 common enemies would 1 hit me. the guy carrying me was a tank and a godly tank because he kept reviving me while mobs ganged on him, and I'm not talking about 2 or 3 but up to 7 enemies plus a miniboss all attacking him and he bashes a few times then ult then goes to revive me for me to move away try to do damage help him and then be killed because one enemy lost the taunt and targetted me. spoiler alert. in the last boss, the dragon, he was constantly reviving me even there with the final boss attacking him.

that experience showed me that the EA is for cp999999999999999999999 players so the lowly average guys like me will never be able to experience the end of it unless we are carried, I would recommend do a baby mode and a normal mode then a ESO god player mode that way people can get the dumb rewards from the EA and be done with it. you have no idea how annoying it is to find other players who want to do EA and the group finder doesn't work most of the times because it is usually bugged, specially when it comes to dungeons

You just have to kite the boss in circles away from the AOEs. And he only drops the AOEs on your location, so as long as you aren't standing still in one spot, they are practically nothing to deal with.

On top of that, only 1 thing the boss physically does actually hurts you, and that is the extremely telegraphed heavy attack, which you have like 3 seconds to hit block before he hits you with it.

If you are roll dodging in ARC 1, you are doing it wrong. If you are chasing the boss, you are oddly doing it wrong since the boss literally walks right to you. The boss also doesn't stun you at all, so no clue why you would be breaking free at any point.

I try to kite the boss but no matter what I do it stays within one of those AOE it isn't a matter of the boss not moving but the boss going towards me, put AOE stay still and wait there for a few moments then moving towards me again.

I already tried to outrun the AOE but those glasses hoovering above me are faster than me so if I run they get me, if I block they 1 hit me so the only way is dodging by rolling! There are no if or buts! That's the ONLY WAY TO SURVIVE.

The boss is annoyingly though. I can deal with other sub bosses easily, by myself around 1 minute at max to kill them since as a night blade I do 4 to 6% damage but the last boss I kept attacking for around 20 seconds while dodging and also adding procs yet it barely reaches 98% before I die. By that time I would have taken 40% of the previous bosses HP! And I see it unfair. That tough armor it has should be reserved for deeper arcs not the first arc!

Araneae6537 · December 2023

CGPsaint wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I reached only mid arc 3 (past 2 bosses I think) and I feel that at that point trash packs became harder that the bosses that I've seen there. Feels a bit weird.

Edit: I'm not saying that the bosses need to be adjusted. It's the strength of the trash packs that seems weird.

The trash adds health increases with each Arc to the point where it becomes a grind just to kill adds. Leaderboard rewards are incredibly underwhelming, so I basically blitz through to the end of Arc 3 which nets me 5 drops if I kill the Marauders in Arcs 2 and 3. Then I reset and start again if I have nothing better to do.

How do you reset?

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

my ideal character for going far is my warden, set up as a tank, i can solo at least through arc 4 with that (but it can be slow with the wrong visions/verses

the other night ran it with a friend who had never been in the archive before (hed been on vacation since u40 launch), and we got to arc 10 lol

my other dps toons definitely put out a lot of pain but its very hard going past arc 4 unless that character has a tank partner, if im trying to do a quick arc 4 run i use my arcanist with another person, cleared arc 4 in 1 hour 45 min with basically 2 dps slightly tanky

edit: also z'maja does not show up in archive, the one that shows in archive is z'baza which is the 4th secret boss in coral aerie

Right now my long goal is just getting to and then through arc 4! I think I’ll try warden; I’ll see if I can find some build ideas.

Thank you for the information about the sload boss! I really haven’t done last year’s dungeons much, but now I do remember trying to go against that extra boss once and not succeeding… Any advice for Z’Baza?

boi_anachronism_ · December 2023

Let me give the folks here who are struggling a suggestion (for none ha sorcs) go craft yourself some brass fortress. It requires very few traits researched. Chest, legs, reinforced. Waist, boots, gloves mudus. Slap on the penetration mudus, ring of the pale, slimcraw and if you have it incarnate head, shoulder mudus, head reinforced ( if you dont have that iceheart will do fine) then choose any dps set. Orders wrath works if you are crafting. Sharpened for your weapon. Slap on a shield, a heal, and caltraps if you have it. Put on reaving blows in your blue cp tree and sustained by suffering. If you want to get real crazy with health recovery you can do health drain enchantment for your weapon too. You will be golden for th'oat and marauders throught arc 2. Gl. Remember: block dragon thum, roll through yolo when he puts out the aoe if you get it.

You can pretty much chill in th'oat aoes, all ya gotta do then is attack her, block the heavy, and wack the blobs every now and again. Your constantly healing and you will have amazing sustain. For the blobs, if you have a hard time spotting them- the wizard guy will stop attacking the boss and go attack a blob if they spawn. If he runs away from the boss there is a blob somewhere. Wherever he goes when he stops attacking the boss just follow him to find it.

You do NOT need high dps for this build to work at all. I given it to a ton of folks that were having issues and they rocked through arc 1 with it.

Oh and dont forget- if you are normally a dps make sure to get all the heavy armor passives.

One final tip:

For folks that have done normal dreadsail and typically go in with a companion you can swap fortress for pearlescent. Put a taunt on your companion. If (when) your companion dies you get a whopping 33% damage mitigation.

spartaxoxo · December 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

How do you reset?

There's an hour glass that resets the instance in the main room.

aetherial_heavenn · December 2023

DinoZavr wrote: »

on overall, difficulty progression is fine for me.
what is not are some visions, some bosses, and, of course, a handful of bugs, plus a HUGE annoyance is the inability to save progress. Some are overtuned, some are underwhelming. This way or another.
So at this moment the difficulty progression is not the most important issue to discuss, in my humble opinion.

Visions:
some are way below difficulty progressions, like
- Your direct damage increases! Direct damage increased by 2% per stack.
an me like "Yay! But mobs health increase 2x per Arc" How does this match?
some are overtuned, which might be fine, when developers change multiplicative effect into additive

Bosses:
- Gothmau. i got this guy dozens of time. and never managed to kill him. The fight starts when game drops him into a matchbox-sized room and even at Arc 1 his light attacks are 12K (and like 20K at Arc 2). So just when i manage to target his, he shreds my shield and takes 1/3 of my HP. Gothmau is way too overtuned, at least, from a solo player point of view.
Other marauder guys are killable, but this one is not (of course from my humble point of view)
I would eagerly like to watch how @ZOS developer kills Gothmau solo in a small room by a melee class to teach me (and players like me if they exist) a good "how-to" lesson. @ZOS, please? pretty please?
- Aramril. it took me really quite a lot of attempts with the last round with 2 crystals and 3 mind terrors.
was this even tested for a solo? i really love the good challenge, but i just hate a plain mockery.
(of course, boundary between the two is very individual, but this certain fight has proven me i am a sheety player)
i did my best, fitting venom arrow, gap closer.. but it is still hard for a melee character to beat them Bosmer girl.
- Tho'at best friends the little blobbies. Big Kudos to @SkinnyCheeks - his videos gave a good insight: to install the "Untaunted" addon, which marks them enemies with the highly visible red markers. But i don't get how Console players manage to spot them at Arc2+? Are them players are all psychic? to spot them shiny silver blobbies in a chaos of dozens shiny silver crystals?

Bugs:
- stuck in combat. you can do nothing, nether log out, nor exit. just kill the client by Operating System means
- empty boss arena
- Rakkhat. died to him at least a dozen of times, maybe more. the pillars you meant to hide behind fall apart right on the moment they appear or right before before boss deadly attack. Poof! YOU DIED!. Also they often spawn way to far from the boss (which also tells me developers play only ranged magicka classes and QA.. well.. i can't tell you what i think about pre-release internal testing). And there were 5 weeks of PTS testing. And still...
- mobs stack beyond the floor out of ranged attack reach
- mobs stack at the ladder, level resets, you lose a thread
- mobs spawn too far from your current position, level resets, you lose a thread
and so on, and so on.
needless to comment i had experienced all of these. many times. unfortunately
Bugs in ESO tend to last for a very long time, and re-emerge with new updates, so this very fact is very frustrating, as Developers normally concentrate on moving forward, as half-baked feature has been already served and there is no additional man-hours to fix what is broken. Quality is a HUGE problem, not only in ESO, in MMOs in general. Unfortunately, ESO is not an exclusion.

Saving progress:
i am a working guy and can spend TWO, well TWO and half HOURS to play in the late evenings. This are 2 .. 3 Arcs
then i just quit even with threads remaining. There are several topics at this Forum where players stress this is unhealthy, so i guess, no reason to re-quote that here.
Relevant link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7999787/#Comment_7999787

TL/DR; Gothmau and Rakkhat are FORCING me to lose interest to otherwise a great challenging Arena. And @ZOS, PLEASE implement progress saving, PLEASE, players are not robots. we have lives, hope you too.

Saved me much typing. Thank you.

I'll just add soloing, even with a companion, is hard compared with a well built duo. (the vet versus normal comparison is good) . I am pretty average dpser, good healer and quite good PvPer. I'd love a save mechanic each arc, even if you didn't get on leaderboards, if you saved your progress, so I could practice and learn as it gets harder....

Could require a "same group save" and do the same for static duo's. It is much more fun with a friend! Particularly a tanky one! And maybe this would encourage players to progressively improve their builds as they encountered different bosses over the weeks. Like vMA does because you may now save progress instead of rage quitting after screaming in guild chat! The memories. LOL

jaws343 · December 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

my ideal character for going far is my warden, set up as a tank, i can solo at least through arc 4 with that (but it can be slow with the wrong visions/verses

the other night ran it with a friend who had never been in the archive before (hed been on vacation since u40 launch), and we got to arc 10 lol

my other dps toons definitely put out a lot of pain but its very hard going past arc 4 unless that character has a tank partner, if im trying to do a quick arc 4 run i use my arcanist with another person, cleared arc 4 in 1 hour 45 min with basically 2 dps slightly tanky

edit: also z'maja does not show up in archive, the one that shows in archive is z'baza which is the 4th secret boss in coral aerie

I've been finding the most success between my warden and my sorc. But that is mostly due to me specifically setting them up for the run. I find I can get to ARC 4 at least on most of my PVP builds on other classes.

I did stumble onto a build last night that is incredibly efficient and deals a ton of passive damage while still being fairly tanky.

5 Azureblight, 2 Zaan, 2 trainee, Vat Lightning Staff, Oakensoul
Running only WoE, Bound Aegis, Crit Surge, Ele Sus, Hardened Ward, Dawnbreaker
Sugar Skulls food
Steed Mundus (or Apprentice or Lover)
All Max health, with at least 25K mag. I was sitting at 40K health.
All jewelry infused Spell Damage, to boost proc damage. You are heavy attacking so it doesn't matter too much how much recovery or mag you have.

Basically, in early rounds, enemies don't have a ton of health, so the setup really isn't doing too much for you damage wise with Azure. Zaan and Vat are melting everything through ARC 3. In ARC 4, the enemies start getting full stacks of Azure and the damage is insane. Also, using Occult Overload CP. As focused efforts eventually ramps up, status effects will be everywhere.

That is all paired with 25-30K resists. Not as high as other setups, but the key is the Health Regen. 3600 regen. Without any vision buffs. The key is to slot dawnbreaker but never use it. Keep it for the FG passive and the health recovery at 500 ultimate CP.

As you get more +45% buffs to health recovery, this passive healing you are doing is ridiculous. And Azure just keeps going off.

HalfDragoness · December 2023

EdjeSwift wrote: »

HalfDragoness wrote: »

/Snip

But isn't this the whole point of the archive? Risk v Reward? You're not taking risks because you're going tanky to get to that point. I run primarily DPS through the Archive and getting through Act 4 is a challenge because I gotta be careful, manage my pots and resources, but I do clear in a decent time frame. When I take my tank it can take twice to three times as long, but no risk. Cutting all trash mobs by 1/3rd is a bit extreme IMO, part of the challenge is killing them fast enough in Act 3 onward where the dots and mechanics of the trash mobs don't overwhelm you.

Essentially, yes it is about risk v reward. I do nearly all content with my MagDK who is set up to be pure DPS. I really struggled with the later areas of EA so I adjusted her attributes and mundus to be tankier. This let me get through to arc 4 being able to learn what to expect without the constant threat of one shots. Now that I know what to expect I have adjusted her back to being almost pure DPS except I have the Lady mundus (for armor) instead of Thief and I've pushed her food buffed HP to about 25k (down from 30k where I had it as a tank, but up from 21k where she is as pure dps)

Braffin wrote: »

I think there is an easier solution for this issue than nerfing content into oblivion: Simply increase the amount of currency players gain for running solo to reflect the slower progression. Everyone should be happy with this change.

And as Braffin has suggested when you play solo there is higher risk, but the reward isn't any bigger. Crafting your build to get as far as possible in EA solo is about being damaey enough to kill the mobs, but being tanky enough to not die to one shots from certain bosses and Marauders.

I would also just say that I didn't suggest we "nerf EA content into oblivion" I suggested there be some tweaks for solo play as the differences between solo and due are:

Duo:

2 sources of damage
Double visions
Double verses (up to 4 if both players also use the bonus verse scraps)
The chance to be rezzed and not loose a thread
5 threads if both players have unlocked their extra thread. 7 in total if both players take the bonus one as a vision.
Can have a tank and a dps for later stages

Solo:

1 source of damage
1 vision per boss
1 verse (up to 2 if you use a bonus verse scrap)
Dying means you definitely loose a thread
4 threads if you've unlocked the extra one (up to 5 if you take the bonus one as a vision)
Must be both a tank and a DPS in later stages
Same rewards as if you were playing in a duo

The solo version just needs some tweaks in either the risk or the reward.

And the part that I personally struggle to balance the most is the the sheer amount of time it takes to kill 10 rounds of mobs with 300k hp (needing damage) and anticipating the Marauder, especially the 4 armed fire one, where you need to be tanky... and keep your distance, but his reach is so far for someone who should only be able to do that kind of damage in melee range.

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I reached only mid arc 3 (past 2 bosses I think) and I feel that at that point trash packs became harder that the bosses that I've seen there. Feels a bit weird.

Edit: I'm not saying that the bosses need to be adjusted. It's the strength of the trash packs that seems weird.

The trash adds health increases with each Arc to the point where it becomes a grind just to kill adds. Leaderboard rewards are incredibly underwhelming, so I basically blitz through to the end of Arc 3 which nets me 5 drops if I kill the Marauders in Arcs 2 and 3. Then I reset and start again if I have nothing better to do.

How do you reset?

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

my ideal character for going far is my warden, set up as a tank, i can solo at least through arc 4 with that (but it can be slow with the wrong visions/verses

the other night ran it with a friend who had never been in the archive before (hed been on vacation since u40 launch), and we got to arc 10 lol

my other dps toons definitely put out a lot of pain but its very hard going past arc 4 unless that character has a tank partner, if im trying to do a quick arc 4 run i use my arcanist with another person, cleared arc 4 in 1 hour 45 min with basically 2 dps slightly tanky

edit: also z'maja does not show up in archive, the one that shows in archive is z'baza which is the 4th secret boss in coral aerie

Right now my long goal is just getting to and then through arc 4! I think I’ll try warden; I’ll see if I can find some build ideas.

Thank you for the information about the sload boss! I really haven’t done last year’s dungeons much, but now I do remember trying to go against that extra boss once and not succeeding… Any advice for Z’Baza?

to answer both of your questions:

to reset the instance you hit the hourglass near where you load into the archive, it forced the instance to reset (has a cooldown of 5 min)

for z'baza, the adds from my experience generally died pretty quickly to aoe dmg, the most deadly thing in the normal fight with her are the purple orbs that hunt you (when you have the targeted symbol above your head), those will explode dealing oblivion dmg at least in the normal encounter, ive never let one hit me in the archive version lol

my current build on my warden is perfected pearlescent + ice furnace + iceheart

iceheart gives me some extra dmg/dmg shield to help absorb dmg every 6 seconds
ice furnace gives me a lot of extra aoe dmg and can proc burning (which is potent when you have a lot of stacks of focused efforts and works great on warden due to the high amount of frost dmg)
pearlescent gives you and your partner weapon/spell dmg at all times, if your partner (or companion) dies you also get 33% dmg mitigation

with food this setup is sitting at around 40k max hp with toughness

i use ice fortress for armor (major resolve + minor protection), ice clench which allows me to taunt and applies major maim (enemy deals -10% dmg)

i use crystallized slabs to protect against ranged dmg, its also great at passively interrupting the blobs to stop them from channeling without needing to actually target them

i use elemental susceptibility as a spammable, because its 0 cost, and if i do get at least 2 stacks of focused efforts i can get like 30k dps from just that, if i get lucky enough to get 5 stacks of focused efforts, i can do almost 100-130k dps spamming ele sus even on a full tank setup (it would be twice as potent on dps build, but stuff in later arcs hits so hard lol)

EdjeSwift · December 2023

HalfDragoness wrote: »

The solo version just needs some tweaks in either the risk or the reward.

Herein lies half the issue with the Endless Archive and people's viewpoint of it.

There is no "solo version", in terms of combat and bosses, it is content designed, for all intents and purposes without actual confirmation, for duos. Sure the mini-games are easier solo, but the whole of the content is most likely designed for duos. The ability to go in there solo is like the ability to go into 4 man content solo, you can clear it, but it's not going to be as easy as with a group.

If we can look past the idea of it being solo content and realize while we CAN solo it, it's not the design process then maybe we can understand that if we go in there solo that we're not going in for the best experience as it's designed for a pair, not a single. For me, the reward of being able to solo most of what I need is the not needing a partner for content, sure do I like running on a occasion with someone? Yeah, but I do 99% of my runs solo and I understood a while back that if I wanted to get deeper I need a duo, solo is a different beast.

Look at the weekly solo leader boards, the top 100, or whatever you want to call it, clock in on median at about Arc 3/Arc 4 for solo with the obvious extra long run outliers at the top.

TL;DR EA isn't designed solo content and if you want to solo we gotta accept that we're doing group content by ourselves and deal with the difficulties associated with that.

LouisaB75 · December 2023

Except if there is no solo version, why is there a solo leaderboard at all?

EdjeSwift · December 2023

LouisaB75 wrote: »

Except if there is no solo version, why is there a solo leaderboard at all?

To reward those who do it solo?

As I stared, there is no solo version, but it CAN be done solo. So if you choose to do it and challenge yourself, you get your own leaderboard.

CGPsaint · December 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Solo I haven't beaten Arc 2 Tho'at yet mostly because of the shard. Duo my friend and I are still working on Arc 3 Tho'at. We came closer today than we ever have though.

Pretty much exactly where I’m at, except that I haven’t yet completed the Filer’s Wing for that sweet Third Vision bonus, but working on it.

What class(es) have you had success with solo? I can always get to the second arc with my HA oakensorc, but pets become increasingly useless so I’ve been trying to find another build that I can potentially go further with. I’ve been trying DK but I just can’t do that much damage, so I get a boss like Z’Maja and I’m SOL. I’ve done the Cloudrest trial plenty but I haven’t a freaking clue what to do if I can’t burn her down before I’m overwhelmed with adds and aoe and !!!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

I've found a no-pet HA OakenSorc to be the easiest for rolling through the first 4 Arcs and the setup is pretty simple.

Weapon - Sergeant's Mail Lightning Staff - Precise - Shock
Head - Slimecraw - Medium or Heavy - Divines - Tri-Stat
Shoulders - Shattered Fate - Medium - Divines - Tri-Stat
Chest - Sergeant's Mail - Divines - Tri-Stat
Hands - Shattered Fate - Medium - Divines - Tri-Stat
Waist - Shattered Fate - Light - Divines - Tri-Stat
Legs - Shattered Fate - Medium - Divines - Tri-Stat
Feet - Shattered Fate - Medium - Divines - Tri-Stat
Neck - Sergeant's Mail - Bloodthirsty - Spell Damage/Mag Recovery
Ring - Sergeant's Mail - Bloodthirsty - Spell Damage/Mag Recovery
Ring - Oakensoul - Bloodthirsty - Spell Damage/Mag Recovery

Skills: Unstable Wall of Elements, Daedric Tombs, Bound Aegis, Critical Surge, Hardened Ward, Greater Storm Attronach/Elemental Rage

Tho'at Fight - This fight is going to be mobile, so swap Unstable Wall of Elements for Elemental Susceptibility for greater penetration.

Red CP: Boundless Vitality, Fortified, Bastion, Bloody Renewal

Blue CP: Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Thaumaturge, Master-At-Arms

Food: Sugar Skulls

Mundus: Thief

Race: High Elf, Dark Elf, Breton (for more Sustain if needed)

This build will give you around 4500 Spell Damage, 50% Spell Critical (includes Minor Prophecy from using Dark Magic skills), and 9557 Spell Penetration (over Pen Cap on adds, but will help with Tho'at fights)

You are sitting just over pen cap for all enemies except for Tho'at. Keep your Critical Surge up at all times. Use Hardened Ward if needed and then attack to heal. Drop your Wall of Elements and Daedric Tombs on larger enemies and heavy attack your way to victory. If you're having trouble with adds, then kite backwards while heavy attacking and drop Daedric Tombs to immobilize enemies.

As you play, try to learn the spawn patterns. The priority enemies such as the Fabled Infusers spawn in the middle or back middle of trash packs. They MUST be killed first. Plan on using your Elemental Rage ultimate on the first and third waves of trash rounds. Most boss fights are not DPS races.

Tho'at Fights. Be sure to swap out Wall of Elements for Elemental Susceptibility. Stay mobile. Kill the blob adds whenever they spawn, and then continue kiting/fighting Tho'at and subsequent bosses.

This isn't the perfect build, but you also don't have to rely on getting the right Visions to get the job done. If you get penetration Visions, grab them as they will make the Tho'at fights easier. Otherwise, grab any offensive/defensive Visions that you feel will make your run easier.

Let me know if you have any questions!

EdjeSwift · December 2023

CGPsaint wrote: »

As you play, try to learn the spawn patterns. The priority enemies such as the Fabled Infusers spawn in the middle or back middle of trash packs. They MUST be killed first. Plan on using your Elemental Rage ultimate on the first and third waves of trash rounds. Most boss fights are not DPS races.

100% agree on this, knowledge of the trash pack spawns and knowing where and when Fabled spawn is key to success. Arc 1, no Fabled Early, then they spawn in Stage 1 for the rest of the Arc I think from Stage 3 or 4 onward. Arc 2, still 1 Fabled at Stage 1 then I think at Stage 3 or 4 onward, they also spawn in the second pack. Arc 3, Stage 1 spawn then I think from Stage 4 onward 2 spawn with the final pack per stage.

CGPsaint wrote: »

Tho'at Fights. Be sure to swap out Wall of Elements for Elemental Susceptibility. Stay mobile. Kill the blob adds whenever they spawn, and then continue kiting/fighting Tho'at and subsequent bosses.

This piece of advice I have to speak up against, one of the most effective visions available is Fiery Support and if you can dance around the AoE and control it where she stands in your Fiery Support pool, it will do half the work. If you're lucky enough to get Guardian of Pestilence on top of this, you'll do aces. Tho'at, to me at least, isn't about mobility until Arc 3, Arc 1 and 2 with Tho'at Prime and the Ice Atronach are about controlling the battlefield and using the space you have available, if you can pile up her AoEs in a small area and use your positioning to your advantage there's no reason you can't use Wall and Ele to beat her.

Edit: Was a little curious on health scaling for enemies in the Archive. Arc 1 Stage 1, trash packs have 65k health on average and per stage they do go up incrementally, however between Arc 1 and 2 they get a big jump and then between 2 and 3 another big one where the same packs from 1.1.1 now have nearly 4x the HP they had previously, but the bosses don[t get that big a boost my Stage 1 boss the Whisperer had 792.5K HP while Canonreave during Arc 3 had only about 2 mill instead of the expected 3.

HalfDragoness · December 2023

EdjeSwift wrote: »

HalfDragoness wrote: »

The solo version just needs some tweaks in either the risk or the reward.

Herein lies half the issue with the Endless Archive and people's viewpoint of it.

There is no "solo version", in terms of combat and bosses, it is content designed, for all intents and purposes without actual confirmation, for duos. Sure the mini-games are easier solo, but the whole of the content is most likely designed for duos. The ability to go in there solo is like the ability to go into 4 man content solo, you can clear it, but it's not going to be as easy as with a group.

If we can look past the idea of it being solo content and realize while we CAN solo it, it's not the design process then maybe we can understand that if we go in there solo that we're not going in for the best experience as it's designed for a pair, not a single. For me, the reward of being able to solo most of what I need is the not needing a partner for content, sure do I like running on a occasion with someone? Yeah, but I do 99% of my runs solo and I understood a while back that if I wanted to get deeper I need a duo, solo is a different beast.

Look at the weekly solo leader boards, the top 100, or whatever you want to call it, clock in on median at about Arc 3/Arc 4 for solo with the obvious extra long run outliers at the top.

TL;DR EA isn't designed solo content and if you want to solo we gotta accept that we're doing group content by ourselves and deal with the difficulties associated with that.

I guess this isn't very well communicated by the Elder Scrolls team as in their update 40 news it says "In this all-new PvE activity, you can team up with a trusted ally or go it solo as you contend with randomly generated stages filled with waves of monsters and perilous boss encounters. " Which imples the challenge is equal. What they should've said is "It's a 2-person PvE activity but those who fancy a challenge can take it on solo."

So yeah I guess all my arguments come from understanding that piece of official communication as solo and duo would be different, but balanced, ways to approach the same content.

EdjeSwift · December 2023

HalfDragoness wrote: »

I guess this isn't very well communicated by the Elder Scrolls team as in their update 40 news it says "In this all-new PvE activity, you can team up with a trusted ally or go it solo as you contend with randomly generated stages filled with waves of monsters and perilous boss encounters. " Which imples the challenge is equal. What they should've said is "It's a 2-person PvE activity but those who fancy a challenge can take it on solo."

So yeah I guess all my arguments come from understanding that piece of official communication as solo and duo would be different, but balanced, ways to approach the same content.

As my Contracts Professor told me years ago: Words Matter.

You said it yourself, you implied something from the words they used, but if you break down the words it's all true, like I've stated previously you can go solo or duo, and you will face randomly generated stages with waves and boss. No where did they say equal, different, or balanced for one way or another, this is something that we have to experience and come to conclusions.

That was your interpretation of their words and it's totally fair to have expected that, you're not alone in expecting solo and duo to be different given leaderboards and such. Plenty of people probably thought the same, but as time marched on there was the realization that outside of the skippable mini-games I'm fighting the same mobs with the same HP and the same damage regardless of solo or duo.

emilyhyoyeon · December 2023

Honestly I don't care if it's intended for duo only or both, I think buffing the rewards for solo is a nice idea if they want more people (like me) doing the content

CGPsaint · December 2023

EdjeSwift wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

As you play, try to learn the spawn patterns. The priority enemies such as the Fabled Infusers spawn in the middle or back middle of trash packs. They MUST be killed first. Plan on using your Elemental Rage ultimate on the first and third waves of trash rounds. Most boss fights are not DPS races.

100% agree on this, knowledge of the trash pack spawns and knowing where and when Fabled spawn is key to success. Arc 1, no Fabled Early, then they spawn in Stage 1 for the rest of the Arc I think from Stage 3 or 4 onward. Arc 2, still 1 Fabled at Stage 1 then I think at Stage 3 or 4 onward, they also spawn in the second pack. Arc 3, Stage 1 spawn then I think from Stage 4 onward 2 spawn with the final pack per stage.

CGPsaint wrote: »

Tho'at Fights. Be sure to swap out Wall of Elements for Elemental Susceptibility. Stay mobile. Kill the blob adds whenever they spawn, and then continue kiting/fighting Tho'at and subsequent bosses.

This piece of advice I have to speak up against, one of the most effective visions available is Fiery Support and if you can dance around the AoE and control it where she stands in your Fiery Support pool, it will do half the work. If you're lucky enough to get Guardian of Pestilence on top of this, you'll do aces. Tho'at, to me at least, isn't about mobility until Arc 3, Arc 1 and 2 with Tho'at Prime and the Ice Atronach are about controlling the battlefield and using the space you have available, if you can pile up her AoEs in a small area and use your positioning to your advantage there's no reason you can't use Wall and Ele to beat her.

Edit: Was a little curious on health scaling for enemies in the Archive. Arc 1 Stage 1, trash packs have 65k health on average and per stage they do go up incrementally, however between Arc 1 and 2 they get a big jump and then between 2 and 3 another big one where the same packs from 1.1.1 now have nearly 4x the HP they had previously, but the bosses don[t get that big a boost my Stage 1 boss the Whisperer had 792.5K HP while Canonreave during Arc 3 had only about 2 mill instead of the expected 3.

While I agree with what you're saying, that method is 100% reliant on getting the right Visions, which from my experience just doesn't happen often enough. My build/method is set up to be doable with less than ideal Visions, but that being said, if I get Fiery Support then I'll absolutely take advantage of it.