Braffin wrote: »

No, a completely new player with a freshly made levl 4 character wouldn't enter EA in the first place with the attitude to succeed on their first try.
It takes a good portion of entitlement to expect to defeat bosses without learning their mechanics properly.

Depends on what you understand by "succeeding". Since the archive was marketed as the fun new activity for every player, I'd expected that difficulty would increase from "doable by newbies" to intermediate to vet content from arc to arc, so at least the first arc would basically be easy mode with the least-complex bosses appearing (not much to learn there mechanic-wise), and yeah, newbies could succeed at least at the beginning.

Braffin wrote: »

But I agree with your last sentence at least. It's gotten late, my bed is calling for me.

Good night.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think players who are looking to improve are harmed by a confidence boosting, easy first round. TBH. So long as the difficulty ramps up fairly quickly after arc 1 so people looking for more don't have to wait an unreasonable amount of time.

after many many runs in the archive over the past week, for me personally i didnt even notice the difficulty increase until at least arc 3 (running as a slightly tanky dps and a full healer 2 person group)

arc 1 felt like normal non dlc dungeon, arc 2 felt like normal dlc dungeon, arc 3 felt like non dlc vet dungeon, arc 4 is where it started to feel like actual non-dlc vet dungeon, and arc 5 (when i finally reached that) felt like it was about dlc vet dungeon

the only part that that ive found to be a bit overtuned are the marauders, you almost have to have a full tank build to deal with them

Oh that's very good to know! Thanks.

yeah, from my experience the only time i could see anyone having trouble with a non-tho'at boss is because they never experienced the content where the boss came from naturally so they wouldnt know what to expect

i would say the cycle 4 bosses were the ones that usually included those tougher bosses such as dragons and scaled down trial bosses (some of those trial bosses may need a little bit of tuning as well, they didnt feel overpowered but they did feel like their overall dmg output was a good bit higher than some of the other ones)

i will also note that even some bosses you may recognize, may have some new or mixed in mechanics from other bosses (they didnt feel out of theme and were a pleasant surprise lol)

Oh interesting about the new mechs. I was a bit worried I wouldn't find EA interesting until like Arc 4, because I have soloed a lot of dungeons for the story (I've even shared some videos of that for others on here) but if they also toss in a few new mechs to keep things fresh, that should make it more fun.

at least 2 ill mention by name (i wont mention mech differences to prevent spoilers)

grothdarr (from vaults of madness) and voraner winterborne (probably botched spelling on that, the final boss of spindle 2) are some examples that have new mechanics compared to the dungeon fights

As a new player I remember being mesmerized by bosses/encounters that gave me a challenge, there was a feeling of discovery and that not every bit of the game is the same. It helped me to get goals set and measure my progress going back times and times again into something I stumbled upon randomly before be it a wb or a trial I went blindly solo as had no idea.

Some would surely not feel the same about it, but even easier entry points would sure not draw some people like me back to it (or won't capture at all), also cutting important steps in development and hurting world feel overall.

When will this thread finally be closed? Everyone here is just going around in circles with their respective arguments and views.

Lugaldu wrote: »

When will this thread finally be closed? Everyone here is just going around in circles with their respective arguments and views.

It won't run out of steam until the console players have had their turn at both sides of the discussion!

I noticed every time I walk up to another boss Malkhest mentions in a round about way that he knows about them. I never bothered to try and talk with Malkhest, but if he’s so knowledgeable wouldn’t that be the perfect opportunity where he could fill the player in on boss mechanics, when to watch for the right hook, etc?

I was trying for a whole minute to enter a portal while the (magma incarnate?) boss went invulnerable. But apparently portals are supposed to be attacked in this solo version, which I thought was weird, drop a hint or something

I consider myself a casual player, the most difficult thing I've done in the game is Vet MA no death, and I usually bench around 100k on a dummy. However, I haven't done many trials and I also play on about 280 ping on average, so mechanics are a bit of a pain point for me.

The biggest observation I can make is that the whole thing REALLY is designed for two people. The companions and pets eat *** on every mechanic - this is a really big problem at bosses especially on Tho. It's frustrating for a scrub like me when there are like 4 mechanics going on and I can't rely on someone else to interrupt or tank a mechanic. The side games and fights are also a little frustrating for the same reasons. It feels like there should be a bonus advantage if you're going in solo because you're just doing everything... solo. The lack of normal to vet is a strange omission to me also. I know you could just say "Just group with someone" but why did they bother letting you solo it if it's clearly not meant to be soloed?

On average I make it to Arc 3 but usually die to either a boss I haven't seen before or a Marauder. Trash mobs are no problem in general but the Marauder difficulty is dependant on what arena you get - some of the rooms and tiny and cramped and basically you're dead in this case. One of the Marauders (fire) I just can't kill, his light attacks do 12k when I'm blocking. I feel like if you encounter this guy in Arc 2 either his health or DPS needs to be sharppy reduced. The others are psychotic but okay. The other cause of death is the boss fights but that comes down to me not understanding the mechanics. Disappointing but if I was playing ~SERIOUSLY~ I would look up a guide.

Tho is confusing and frustrating for me because the visuals are hard to look at and there is just lots going on for one casual person to digest

Overall I'd be interested in these changes:
-A bonus for solo players, or a split between nm and vet.
-Reduced damage or HP on marauders in Act 2
-Some mechanics not damaging pets/companions
-The marauders should spawn as a random Wave 4 within a cycle after all the other ads are dead.
-3 Cycles down from 5 Cycles within an Arc. 5 takes foreverrrrrrrr
-Difficulty spiking after Arc 4 but what I think I'm really asking is a tweak to soloing marauders and Tho.

I'll play it maybe once or twice a week at this rate.

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

LikiLoki wrote: »

I can't even pass the first round. I am a simple player who enjoys quests. There are a lot of people like me. This archive is not suitable for us.

Nope. But that has to be OK too. If you enjoy quests then that's your thing and EA just is not. And that's OK too.

It's NOT ok if you sub, and lose a dlc zone with this. As a person who subs used to be 2 dlc dungeons that were/are rarely run. Now it's sub but get absolutely nothing for it. Top tier players get all the benefits. That is NOT right.

100% agree ,after about 5-6 hours ive spent at endless archive,i feel there is nothing else to do than repeat
same actions over and over ,prices arent worth the time and most and above all i;ve lost my yearly DLC,meaning that ill get to play Necrom till next summer with no new content till then
zos said this is for all players again like last year when they "gift" (again,its NO GIFT when i pay sub zos) us Galen so again no sub needed......why tf i pay sub every month if no content and all this are for all players ?

to be more clear,atm im subbing only for craft bag ,if you dont release new content ,there is no reason for me repeating Necrom and the rest over and over

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

As a player who has spent many many hours in EA solo and in duo with my wife, making it to 7-4-2, I want to share my thoughts.

1. ARC 2 red guy with 4 arms mini boss needs to be brought inline with the other atro mini bosses that can show up. (No seriously he is overtuned compared to the others. Yes I can beat him solo but the fact remains he is over performing)

2. ARC 4 Tho'at, when the first boss goes into shield mode and spawns the golden missiles that get shot at you, needs to be slightly down tuned in damage.

3. Dragon pedestal bosses need a MUCH bigger platform, seriously when 99% of the platform currently goes red....sigh

All in all I absolutely LOVE this arena. Its fun, its challenging and the rotation of getting different rewards from the vendor's rotation make it appealable. I would love to see the trial bosses that show up drop trial gear (non perfected). My biggest complaint is the random losing of buffs on your player and that the run can take a VERY long time. We were in there for almost 6 hours reaching 7-4-2.

All in all, great job ZOS! but please fix bugs asap

about 2) The shield mirrors your damage, the orbs spawn in response to the damage that hits her shield. If you don't attack her, she'll lower the shield again and no orbs will spawn at all.

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

LMAO omg thats awesome to know about the shield mirror hahaha ty

its important because if you attack too much and break all of the mirrors, it will send 4 shards to hit you at the same time, which hurts a lot lol

Ehntu wrote: »

I consider myself a casual player, the most difficult thing I've done in the game is Vet MA no death, and I usually bench around 100k on a dummy. However, I haven't done many trials and I also play on about 280 ping on average, so mechanics are a bit of a pain point for me.

The biggest observation I can make is that the whole thing REALLY is designed for two people. The companions and pets eat *** on every mechanic - this is a really big problem at bosses especially on Tho. It's frustrating for a scrub like me when there are like 4 mechanics going on and I can't rely on someone else to interrupt or tank a mechanic. The side games and fights are also a little frustrating for the same reasons. It feels like there should be a bonus advantage if you're going in solo because you're just doing everything... solo. The lack of normal to vet is a strange omission to me also. I know you could just say "Just group with someone" but why did they bother letting you solo it if it's clearly not meant to be soloed?

On average I make it to Arc 3 but usually die to either a boss I haven't seen before or a Marauder. Trash mobs are no problem in general but the Marauder difficulty is dependant on what arena you get - some of the rooms and tiny and cramped and basically you're dead in this case. One of the Marauders (fire) I just can't kill, his light attacks do 12k when I'm blocking. I feel like if you encounter this guy in Arc 2 either his health or DPS needs to be sharppy reduced. The others are psychotic but okay. The other cause of death is the boss fights but that comes down to me not understanding the mechanics. Disappointing but if I was playing ~SERIOUSLY~ I would look up a guide.

Tho is confusing and frustrating for me because the visuals are hard to look at and there is just lots going on for one casual person to digest

Overall I'd be interested in these changes:
-A bonus for solo players, or a split between nm and vet.
-Reduced damage or HP on marauders in Act 2
-Some mechanics not damaging pets/companions
-The marauders should spawn as a random Wave 4 within a cycle after all the other ads are dead.
-3 Cycles down from 5 Cycles within an Arc. 5 takes foreverrrrrrrr
-Difficulty spiking after Arc 4 but what I think I'm really asking is a tweak to soloing marauders and Tho.

I'll play it maybe once or twice a week at this rate.

Oh my, if doing vMA no death and 100k parse at high ping is a "casual scrub", what category is below that for those of us not even near that level? lol

Aislinna wrote: »

Ehntu wrote: »

I consider myself a casual player, the most difficult thing I've done in the game is Vet MA no death, and I usually bench around 100k on a dummy. However, I haven't done many trials and I also play on about 280 ping on average, so mechanics are a bit of a pain point for me.

The biggest observation I can make is that the whole thing REALLY is designed for two people. The companions and pets eat *** on every mechanic - this is a really big problem at bosses especially on Tho. It's frustrating for a scrub like me when there are like 4 mechanics going on and I can't rely on someone else to interrupt or tank a mechanic. The side games and fights are also a little frustrating for the same reasons. It feels like there should be a bonus advantage if you're going in solo because you're just doing everything... solo. The lack of normal to vet is a strange omission to me also. I know you could just say "Just group with someone" but why did they bother letting you solo it if it's clearly not meant to be soloed?

On average I make it to Arc 3 but usually die to either a boss I haven't seen before or a Marauder. Trash mobs are no problem in general but the Marauder difficulty is dependant on what arena you get - some of the rooms and tiny and cramped and basically you're dead in this case. One of the Marauders (fire) I just can't kill, his light attacks do 12k when I'm blocking. I feel like if you encounter this guy in Arc 2 either his health or DPS needs to be sharppy reduced. The others are psychotic but okay. The other cause of death is the boss fights but that comes down to me not understanding the mechanics. Disappointing but if I was playing ~SERIOUSLY~ I would look up a guide.

Tho is confusing and frustrating for me because the visuals are hard to look at and there is just lots going on for one casual person to digest

Overall I'd be interested in these changes:
-A bonus for solo players, or a split between nm and vet.
-Reduced damage or HP on marauders in Act 2
-Some mechanics not damaging pets/companions
-The marauders should spawn as a random Wave 4 within a cycle after all the other ads are dead.
-3 Cycles down from 5 Cycles within an Arc. 5 takes foreverrrrrrrr
-Difficulty spiking after Arc 4 but what I think I'm really asking is a tweak to soloing marauders and Tho.

I'll play it maybe once or twice a week at this rate.

Oh my, if doing vMA no death and 100k parse at high ping is a "casual scrub", what category is below that for those of us not even near that level? lol

Being casual doesn't say anything about skill to a lot of us, but something about what a player is looking for in video games.

There are highly-skilled players which play quite casually, because they are mostly interested in relaxing while playing (yes, that's also possible while doing way above-average dps).

On the other side there also exist players of below-average skill, which are so much dedicated to this game, that they feel forced to play content they don't enjoy.

Saying only low-skilled players are real casuals reminds me of the fable "The fox and the grapes" by Aesop:

This Fox has a longing for grapes:
He jumps, but the bunch still escapes.
So he goes away sour;
And, 'tis said, to this hour
Declares that he's no taste for grapes.

I have made my suggestion on this post about Arc one before, which was basically only putting base game bosses for stage bosses or easier ones out of all bosses.

After playing hours and hours of Endless Archive both solo and duo with different classes. I can easily say that one vision out of others stands out too much compared to other visions.

Focused Efforts vision grants tons of damage compared to other visions, and if you are lucky you can get this vision three or four times before Arc four. With right build you can breeze through Arcs until seventh or eighth with this. In one of my runs got this vision five times and my burning was ticking almost 60K for each enemy. No other vision can buff you like this.

There is some visions that gives you %3 percent direct damage or %3 more area damage. Those are just nothing compared to extra %500 percent status effect damage per stack. Five stacks will net you %2500 more status effect damage. In my opinion visions need some balancing. I would not nerf Focused Efforts in this case but would buff others significantly. Damage reduction visions are also a bit lacking, except those %10 percent unique reductions, those seems fine.

In the end hardest achievement is killing Arc 4 Tho'at which is their last evolution, which makes me think that this content is balanced around this Arc's difficulty. Getting there in my opinion is a good challenge and requires someone to actually kite and do damage, avoid area damages, dodge heavies and many other small stuff during combat. Especially if you are solo. It also requires a unique build that has proper resistances, health values, recoveries and damage.

Braffin wrote: »

They can. Just not all of them in their very first try. That's what challenge and progression are about.

Seems we have different ideas about how people can be motivated to learn and improve. In my personal experience, incentives/rewards work well with most people, as well as giving them a sense of achievement (exactly this is the reason I would appreciate a really easy, beginner-level arc in the archive); while expectations that seem hard may motivate some, but also cause frustration in many others (and not only the lazy). If you teach someone to play the piano, you start with easy folk songs or something like that, not with a sonata by Beethoven or Chopin. That said, I'm not an expert in teaching and the motivation of students; there was a bit during my studies, but, knowing my temper, I deliberately chose not to become a teacher, so it were only some basic lessons.

colossalvoids wrote: »

As a new player I remember being mesmerized by bosses/encounters that gave me a challenge, there was a feeling of discovery and that not every bit of the game is the same. It helped me to get goals set and measure my progress going back times and times again into something I stumbled upon randomly before be it a wb or a trial I went blindly solo as had no idea.

Some would surely not feel the same about it, but even easier entry points would sure not draw some people like me back to it (or won't capture at all), also cutting important steps in development and hurting world feel overall.

Totally agree! I remember getting destroyed in the first cave I walked into in TES III Morrowind but much later I defeated those enemies with ease. Challenge and suspense and feelings of accomplishment can be enjoyable elements of gaming!

Indeed, I am enjoying EA for many of these same reasons. While at points I felt frustrated that I was not doing better, then I tried a change in strategy and something that had felt overwhelming became doable. I discover what does and doesn’t work against different opponents, and that blocking and interrupts aren’t just for tanks! For instance, I starting by just kiting and zapping everything but Tho’at does not allow that and I found the fight much more manageable once I stood and fought her and made my avoidance more strategic. I’ve read additional points in this and other threads that will help me do better too.

I do agree with what others have posted regarding specific enemies/encounters — big dragons need a bigger platform! And at least one of the marauders might be a bit much as is appearing in arc 2, but I haven’t fought them enough to be sure.