MMO or MSO

rowdog · May 2014

FWIW, I was thanked twice last night by people who really needed that friendly heal.

Xithian · May 2014

d0e1ow wrote: »

I'm not in a rage.

I reread your above post again. Twice. There's repeated bouts of all caps, name calling, generalizing, defensive language. You responded to a harsh reply with one even more harsh. I hardly call that keeping your cool.

d0e1ow wrote: »

The pen is mightier than the sword however, and I've yet to see someone, short of maybe one individual, on this forum who has the capability of "out-posting" me as it were.

Firstly, this comes off as nauseatingly elitist. And coming from someone who's bashing on people for being elitist about a game, it's also rather ironic.

Secondly, degenerating an argument even further is your example of "out-posting" someone? To me it's more along the lines of getting in the last word.

On topic, your main concern is at the top of the list of upcoming fixes. What more do you want at this point?

Alurria · May 2014

d0e1ow wrote: »

Xithian wrote: »

@d0e1ow‌

The pen is mightier than the sword however, and I've yet to see someone, short of maybe one individual, on this forum who has the capability of "out-posting" me as it were.

Yep I can see that. they are working on changes. It will be okay, I promise.

Gohlar · May 2014

d0e1ow wrote: »

Xithian wrote: »

@d0e1ow‌

You did see the part where they're working to fix that with the upcoming content, right? It's right at the top of the list even.

A system that allows grouped players to see each other even when they’re in different phases

Cause, you know, right now I picture you in a Steve-Balmer-like rage throwing chairs. Calm down.

I'm not in a rage. I'm disappointed at the utterly terrible attempts of the people on this forum to crap down the throat of anyone who dares speak ill of their little game, even when it is of issues that the developers themselves are claiming need to be changed.

Yeah it's pretty bad. ESO may have the most insecure defenders I've seen for an mmo. You can't even talk about anything, it's just silly. Not a good sign when a segment of the community is this desperately afraid of criticism imo.

Zenimax is, as you said, working to make this a better multiplayer game. I suspect it might be too little, too late though. The "community" here certainly isn't helping.

zaria · May 2014

d0e1ow wrote: »

Xithian wrote: »

@d0e1ow‌

You did see the part where they're working to fix that with the upcoming content, right? It's right at the top of the list even.

A system that allows grouped players to see each other even when they’re in different phases

Cause, you know, right now I picture you in a Steve-Balmer-like rage throwing chairs. Calm down.

I'm not in a rage. I'm disappointed at the utterly terrible attempts of the people on this forum to crap down the throat of anyone who dares speak ill of their little game, even when it is of issues that the developers themselves are claiming need to be changed.

I also don't appreciate being personally attacked, but what I don't appreciate more is being taken out of context. When it comes to my writing, even on forums, I have a bit of an ego (can you tell?) and when people take me out of context, especially when they do it intentionally, I'm going to bite their heads off. You can all imagine me in a frothing rage over here if that makes you feel superior.

The pen is mightier than the sword however, and I've yet to see someone, short of maybe one individual, on this forum who has the capability of "out-posting" me as it were.

Questing in group is pretty broken, no discussion here, plenty of quests you will be separated and might even mess up thing.
Not even sure if this problem can be entire fixed but is a cost of phasing.

However this only affect people who quest together as friends. This is an minority and will have problems is any mmo if they don't quest without each other at any time.
In short most of the reviews who focus on this does it because they have read it somewhere else, its not something the reviewer who play the game at work will find himself.

The other reason to group is to help each other in a quest, this was a huge help in WOW but is not much needed in ESO. Few quests where you grind 20 of something, everybody who helps get loot, content is pretty easy and its lots of people around to just tag along for the run.

Varivox9 · May 2014

I think that was really the final nail in the ESO coffin for me. It's the most single player MMO I've ever played. I feel like they tried to make a single player MMO with how hard it is to group with friends (unless you all coordinate about what meaningless choice you make and level at the same exact time). To make matters worse, they nerfed the challenge in a lot of quests to be easily solo'd.

If 3/5 guilds aren't trading guilds, gl getting anything. Guilds are more designed as a shoddy AH stand-in that doesn't work more than anything else. I had a good guild where a bunch of people in TS used the rings of mara to boost their xp gains, and I still outleveled them since I was soloing everything. They quickly realised that unless their schedules matched 100%, grouping to quest was a quest in and of itself.

ESO is a prime example, imo, of what happens when you design a game trying to please everyone. It's a subpar single player experience and a subpar multiplayer experience. Right now, grouping is designed to hinder you more than anything else.

Lanatireb17_ESO · May 2014

zaria wrote: »

However this only affect people who quest together as friends. This is an minority and will have problems is any mmo if they don't quest without each other at any time.

Umm. Im not sure its such a minority my friend, considering the Forums are swarming with people bringing that very argument. Basically my whole guild (25 people) quit for that very reason.

zaria · May 2014

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

However this only affect people who quest together as friends. This is an minority and will have problems is any mmo if they don't quest without each other at any time.

Umm. Im not sure its such a minority my friend, considering the Forums are swarming with people bringing that very argument. Basically my whole guild (25 people) quit for that very reason.

An minority but still an huge group of people and I stated it was a problem.
Guild of 25 quieted sounds implausible, more likely some quit because of it and was vocal, most jumped to other guilds as a 20 man guild is to small.

Malkavianqueen · May 2014

d0e1ow wrote: »

This is essentially what "killed" the game for me. I don't care about bugs and technical issues. Remember FFXIV's re-launch? You couldn't even log in. Hard stop. I've seen worse.

I liked the character development, the open ended feeling of the classes. It was a breath of fresh air since most games just put you down a hard and fast path these days. I even liked their ideas at phasing the world to the things you've done. But...

They couldn't have made it so I wouldn't "phase out" from my boyfriend? The game -really- is anti-social. I mean, let's be honest, most MMO's these days aren't really big on being social because they don't want to hurt Curtis Casual's feelings, but at least in other games you can quest with a friend, even if it means that questing will be made even easier.

In FFXIV I can level up a class with my boyfriend through 90% of the quest content with no issue. I can do "daily" quests with him. I can also have other development paths for when I am playing alone (Multi-classing, crafting, gathering, fishing, helping with the guild garden, etc) This is true of pretty much every MMO that you can at least group together effectively if you want to.

I'm really shocked that they threw the baby out with the bath water on this one, even if they claim they will fix it eventually... how long will that fix take? Am I willing to wait around forking out $15 for it? Not really. I pay less for FFXIV. I pay nothing for Guild Wars 2, a game that I find very sociable on many levels.

Maybe it's my own fault, but it seems like the very mechanics of the game punish traditional MMO players who truly like grouping, -even if we don't have to-. I bring my boyfriend to these worlds with me, I want to play with him in them.

I've criticized the game for being "nothing special" because frankly it isn't, but I like the setting a lot. It's not some cartoon throw up fest like other games, it's not anime-world like FFXIV, and it's a world I've always wanted to get more familiar with: Tamriel. I could have looked past the "another theme park" drawback, because hell, FFXIV is as theme park as they come and I like that game. The difference? They actually got the fundamentals correct.

If they can fix this in a timely manner, odds are I will give it another go.

You pretty much summed up my experience with this game (right down to missing the cooperative aspects of Guild Wars 2 and openness of the community in Final Fantasy). XD The phasing issues and trading guilds are what really got my boyfriend and me. It's sad because I really love the elder scrolls series. I'm completely willing to give the game another try if they really work on their grouping. But it was just a combination of lack of quality of life features that did it for me.

I play MMOs to play with my boyfriend and my friends. This game made doing that feel incredibly restrictive and a hassle.

And I emphasize with you about later comments. For some reason it is incomprehensible to some people that people play games together to have fun. Every time a thread like this pops up, people rush in to say that 'You need to learn how to play the game.' I can play the game just fine. I just like to be phased with my friends,

Alurria · May 2014

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

However this only affect people who quest together as friends. This is an minority and will have problems is any mmo if they don't quest without each other at any time.

Umm. Im not sure its such a minority my friend, considering the Forums are swarming with people bringing that very argument. Basically my whole guild (25 people) quit for that very reason.

Prove it....it's like saying my guild of one hundred ten people just joined. Let's throw some more on the fire pretty soon we can roast marshmallows, and talk about who got the biggest fish.

mutharex · May 2014

The phasing issue is present but it only really affects a minority of cases, most of which can be easily fixed.

The main issue at play here is people coming from games that don't need any cerebral interaction or use and for those cases they are going to add some more safeguards, so why all this childish whining still??

Morthur · May 2014

mutharex · May 2014

Morthur wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

The main issue at play here is people coming from games that don't need any cerebral interaction or use and for those cases they are going to add some more safeguards, so why all this childish whining still??

What does not being able to group in an MMO have to do with a lack of "cerebral interaction"? Your statement implies that the devs implemented this atrocious grouping system because they wanted to "challenge" people - and that's just laughable (and blatantly untrue since the devs themselves have already admitted that their system is flawed and being fixed).

Hmmm no. There are cases where you'd find yourself in a different phase than your group mates because you haven't started the quest together. Solution? Do another quest from start together? Do something else till the member who was behind reaches the same stage of the quest? teleport to player often fixes some of these issues?

People that complain about this issue usually haven't done any of that nor want to because "it has to work automatically". You get it?

And 'broken and flawed"?? Making so that people see each other IN DIFFERENT PHASES isn't a fix for a GAME problem lol

zaria · May 2014

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

However this only affect people who quest together as friends. This is an minority and will have problems is any mmo if they don't quest without each other at any time.

Umm. Im not sure its such a minority my friend, considering the Forums are swarming with people bringing that very argument. Basically my whole guild (25 people) quit for that very reason.

Prove it....it's like saying my guild of one hundred ten people just joined. Let's throw some more on the fire pretty soon we can roast marshmallows, and talk about who got the biggest fish.

Yes, it looks like its a influx on people into larger social guilds.
Only real reason for an small guild is personal friends or roleplay and you can still join other guilds.

Reevster · May 2014

darkweed1977 wrote: »

This is probably the worst MMO I have played when it comes to community and for me it is more a MSO (Massive Singleplayer Onlinegame) than it is a MMO.
The guilds I have tried to be in is only focusing on trade, which make me wish for an Auction house, but I will leave that as it is as that topic have already been all over the forum.

Players in this game are 99% running around soloing and yes it is good for people who just want to play the game on a casual basis that they do not need to be in a guild to do stuff, but then again, they do if they want more.

There are no community feeling, you do not feel you are a part of a MMO, except all the spam from gold sellers and bots running around. When you talk in chat, which I honestly don't do anymore, you get namecalling and bad mouthing. When you are running around in the world and help a player that is near death, you will not get even the smallest "ty" in say-chat. My experience with this game so far, is that I could easily just have played Skyrim with a lot of bots running around and not a MMO.

So for me, as long as the ingame community is so bad, I will probably enjoy the solo part of the game and then call it a day, like I would with every other Singleplayer game out there.

Agree 100% with that statement , the guild is one of the most important aspects of a MMO and having the ability to join 5 at once just didnt work for me, I unsubed yesterday before even reading this thread. Like you say, the soloing was fun but at some point soloing gets boring , and pickup groups are like you say, get the job done and then gone, I am not a fan of single player games and this game is too "single" player for me to continue which is sad since I like the fighting/game play...sigh..

Goodluck everyone who continue to play.

Khandi · May 2014

mutharex wrote: »

Morthur wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

The main issue at play here is people coming from games that don't need any cerebral interaction or use and for those cases they are going to add some more safeguards, so why all this childish whining still??

What does not being able to group in an MMO have to do with a lack of "cerebral interaction"? Your statement implies that the devs implemented this atrocious grouping system because they wanted to "challenge" people - and that's just laughable (and blatantly untrue since the devs themselves have already admitted that their system is flawed and being fixed).

Hmmm no. There are cases where you'd find yourself in a different phase than your group mates because you haven't started the quest together. Solution? Do another quest from start together? Do something else till the member who was behind reaches the same stage of the quest? teleport to player often fixes some of these issues?

People that complain about this issue usually haven't done any of that nor want to because "it has to work automatically". You get it?

And 'broken and flawed"?? Making so that people see each other IN DIFFERENT PHASES isn't a fix for a GAME problem lol

Ok so you are saying that of the people who believe the game is flawed on the grouping aspect are stupid? That's a pretty bourgeois attitude.

Your solution is that if you wish to play with your friends you either have to NOT play without them (or miss pieces of the game because you have to find quests that neither of you have done) or jump through hoops to be able to play with them every time you use say....a wayshrine or enter a delve?

And you think this is A-OK? 'Cerebral interaction' indeed.

mutharex · May 2014

Khandi wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

Morthur wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

The main issue at play here is people coming from games that don't need any cerebral interaction or use and for those cases they are going to add some more safeguards, so why all this childish whining still??

What does not being able to group in an MMO have to do with a lack of "cerebral interaction"? Your statement implies that the devs implemented this atrocious grouping system because they wanted to "challenge" people - and that's just laughable (and blatantly untrue since the devs themselves have already admitted that their system is flawed and being fixed).

Hmmm no. There are cases where you'd find yourself in a different phase than your group mates because you haven't started the quest together. Solution? Do another quest from start together? Do something else till the member who was behind reaches the same stage of the quest? teleport to player often fixes some of these issues?

People that complain about this issue usually haven't done any of that nor want to because "it has to work automatically". You get it?

And 'broken and flawed"?? Making so that people see each other IN DIFFERENT PHASES isn't a fix for a GAME problem lol

Ok so you are saying that of the people who believe the game is flawed on the grouping aspect are stupid? That's a pretty bourgeois attitude.

Your solution is that if you wish to play with your friends you either have to NOT play without them (or miss pieces of the game because you have to find quests that neither of you have done) or jump through hoops to be able to play with them every time you use say....a wayshrine or enter a delve?

And you think this is A-OK? 'Cerebral interaction' indeed.

Bourgeois? Oook
No I think that the issues is overstated by people for whine sake and that it affects a small percentage of group players.

the only real problem, unfixable, is when you decided to kill A and save B and your mates did the opposite: goes without saying that you not going to be in the same phase if it means that A and B are both alive.....

RianaTheBosmer · May 2014

I don't agree with you.

1) Find a better guild, one that focuses on what you want, PvE or PvP. Why on earth would you join a trading guild as your main guild? It's seems so pointless to me. My guild is really awesome.

2) Make some friends. I play with 3 friends, all of us will be werewolves and run in a pack. I brought 2 of them into the game but the third I met in game and he's awesome.

3) Turn off the zone chat. That was the first thing I did. Zone chat in every game is just vile. You can't get away from that no matter where you go.

4) I always say thank you when someone throws a heal at me but you can't always expect that. People are questing, they are focused.

Amsel_McKay · May 2014

I have played since day 1 and have not grouped yet... there is no need. I am in 5 trade guilds though just because of the need to sell and (in my case buy items). ESO currently is an MSO. To be honest I dont like MMOs anymore I played 9 years of EQ in the biggest guilds and moved to WOW and was in the biggest guilds opening the newest content.

Then sometime in there I got a family and cant play massive hours anymore and that makes the social part of the game to go away because casual and social dont really work together because of weird and short play times. The first day I leveled to 20 and had some good friends the second day I had to work... logged on that night and my "friends" were in their 30-40s and on other content.

ESO was always going to be a "single player" game for me, but the option to group and play harder group content when I get to max level in a few months. Also MMOs content is changing and bigger then say skyrim which is why I like ESO its still new I LOVED skyrim but once you play it once to max level and play all the ex pacs what is there to do next time... nothing.