MMO or MSO

darkweed1977

This is probably the worst MMO I have played when it comes to community and for me it is more a MSO (Massive Singleplayer Onlinegame) than it is a MMO.
The guilds I have tried to be in is only focusing on trade, which make me wish for an Auction house, but I will leave that as it is as that topic have already been all over the forum.

Players in this game are 99% running around soloing and yes it is good for people who just want to play the game on a casual basis that they do not need to be in a guild to do stuff, but then again, they do if they want more.

There are no community feeling, you do not feel you are a part of a MMO, except all the spam from gold sellers and bots running around. When you talk in chat, which I honestly don't do anymore, you get namecalling and bad mouthing. When you are running around in the world and help a player that is near death, you will not get even the smallest "ty" in say-chat. My experience with this game so far, is that I could easily just have played Skyrim with a lot of bots running around and not a MMO.

So for me, as long as the ingame community is so bad, I will probably enjoy the solo part of the game and then call it a day, like I would with every other Singleplayer game out there.

d0e1ow

This is essentially what "killed" the game for me. I don't care about bugs and technical issues. Remember FFXIV's re-launch? You couldn't even log in. Hard stop. I've seen worse.

I liked the character development, the open ended feeling of the classes. It was a breath of fresh air since most games just put you down a hard and fast path these days. I even liked their ideas at phasing the world to the things you've done. But...

They couldn't have made it so I wouldn't "phase out" from my boyfriend? The game -really- is anti-social. I mean, let's be honest, most MMO's these days aren't really big on being social because they don't want to hurt Curtis Casual's feelings, but at least in other games you can quest with a friend, even if it means that questing will be made even easier.

In FFXIV I can level up a class with my boyfriend through 90% of the quest content with no issue. I can do "daily" quests with him. I can also have other development paths for when I am playing alone (Multi-classing, crafting, gathering, fishing, helping with the guild garden, etc) This is true of pretty much every MMO that you can at least group together effectively if you want to.

I'm really shocked that they threw the baby out with the bath water on this one, even if they claim they will fix it eventually... how long will that fix take? Am I willing to wait around forking out $15 for it? Not really. I pay less for FFXIV. I pay nothing for Guild Wars 2, a game that I find very sociable on many levels.

Maybe it's my own fault, but it seems like the very mechanics of the game punish traditional MMO players who truly like grouping, -even if we don't have to-. I bring my boyfriend to these worlds with me, I want to play with him in them.

I've criticized the game for being "nothing special" because frankly it isn't, but I like the setting a lot. It's not some cartoon throw up fest like other games, it's not anime-world like FFXIV, and it's a world I've always wanted to get more familiar with: Tamriel. I could have looked past the "another theme park" drawback, because hell, FFXIV is as theme park as they come and I like that game. The difference? They actually got the fundamentals correct.

If they can fix this in a timely manner, odds are I will give it another go.

KerinKor

Having a guild-based economy destroyed the concept of 'leveling' or 'social' guilds because many don't want to 'lose' a slot of 500 potential customers in the absence of an AH.

As for your general comments about the community, TBH I feel no different in this game as any other I play really.

FFXI is an exception, as is FFXIV, you get far more 'open world' interaction largely due to the different social base FFXI had and many XIV players came from there. If I 'raise' someone who's dead in either game I'll almost always get a /bow, /wave or some other acknowledgement, if I do that in WOW, Rift, ESO I never do.

I still spend Soulsgems in ESO to revive someone, I've done that maybe 20 times and I have yet to get my first 'thx'. I'm a healer in normal MMOs I guess that's why I do it even here, I don't need a 'thank you' but once in a blue moon it would be nice.

Seems to me all MMOs these days are solable to cap and then you have to group for raiding .. ZOS seem to be bringing back the forced-grouping with 1.1, I fear they're going over-board in the other direction from the one they took up till now. If that's the case then I too will call it a day if there's non-dungeon content I'm locked out of because I loathe PUGs and there are few real guilds around here.

Genomic

Yeah, but there are 964,321 games out there that are better single player experiences, so why play ESO as one?

d0e1ow

KerinKor wrote: »

FFXI is an exception, as is FFXIV, you get far more 'open world' interaction largely due to the different social base FFXI had and many XIV players came from there. If I 'raise' someone who's dead in either game I'll almost always get a /bow, /wave or some other acknowledgement, if I do that in WOW, Rift, ESO I never do.

I still spend Soulsgems in ESO to revive someone, I've done that maybe 20 times and I have yet to get my first 'thx'. I'm a healer in normal MMOs I guess that's why I do it even here, I don't need a 'thank you' but once in a blue moon it would be nice.

Seems to me all MMOs these days are solable to cap and then you have to group for raiding .. ZOS seem to be bringing back the forced-grouping with 1.1, I fear they're going over-board in the other direction from the one they took up till now. If that's the case then I too will call it a day if there's non-dungeon content I'm locked out of because I loathe PUGs and there are few real guilds around here.

What you say about FFXIV is true. I've never been much for anime or even -that- into FF, but the community in that game is a warm bunch. I -really- enjoy them, even their forums tend to be more pleasant. They have a long running "FFXIV reaction GIFS" thread over there that is hilarious. I don't know what the difference is, but I'd suspect that the game appeals to a very specific kind of person... I don't have a word for it and don't want to be a bi-otch and stereotype anyone, because like I said, I'm certainly no otaku-kawaii babe. I came up on Lord of the Rings and Underworld, not anime.

As for your second paragraph... I mean... it seems like forced grouping for hard content at end-game is the standard. I don't really see it as bad, just as something people honestly expect out of the genre at this point. People clamor for "hard end-game content" even though most of them will never complete it until it sees a nerf.

Like I said in my original post here: they really screwed the pooch with their anti-grouping questing system. The -whole game- is pretty much quest quest quest quest quest. Talk about a literal "ever"quest. To make it difficult for people to do together, for families who play together, friends, SO's... it's beyond me.

zaria

First go to the guild recruitment part of this forum find a couple of social guilds who look promising and focus match your own, drop some of the trade guilds and see if you like them, if not drop them and try some others.

For me my main problem is that guild chat of the guilds are mixed together and I'm in two active guilds. I could join another guild but don't bother now.
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Saying this ESO has one downside over wow and many other mmo, you can not chat while moving, In wow you could even chat while fighting if you used the mouse on the hotbar who worked well enough for questing mobs.
this reduces talking then meeting people in dungeons and quests.

darkweed1977

Genomic wrote: »

Yeah, but there are 964,321 games out there that are better single player experiences, so why play ESO as one?

Same reason I have played the ES single player games.

Spryt

Community is just as bad as any new release imo. Area chat is terrible. When it comes to guilds I think you just need to find the right one. I am in 2 social pve guild with friends. 2 big pvp aliance guids. I could use the last slot for some trade guild but I have yet to find anything worth buying or selling.

If you instead join 5 huge trade guilds that people only join to off load junk don't expect them to be very social unless they want a discount on something you are selling.

I agree with the phasing. They could have done that better. I gave feedback on it during beta but I guess it takes time to fix. as long as you do quests together it's not so big issue though.

Morthur

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Audigy

I disagree with the OP.

I really played every MMO that exist´s with the exception of the Asian Grinders and ESO is one of the better games out there.

Grouping works so much better here than in any other MMO before. You play together and everyone can loot the quest mob, everyone gets the quest done and everyone gets XP.

At wow for instance only the player who tagged the mob gets the benefit of its kill, this is anti social and one of the results for the anti social community there.

Or what about the quest´s where you must find 20 paws and as soon you group with 4 others those 20 paws mutate into 100 as everyone has to find his own paws.

This problem you don't have at ESO and I love it this way.

I still spend Soulsgems in ESO to revive someone,

I might not say thanks every time, especially if I must get back to battle quickly, but I always thank my Healer after a run - also to those that let me die


TESO just like every MMO lacks some type of "questionnaire" where players could say what type of player they are and with what type of player they want to play.

I would love to tick a few boxes that bring me together with RP players, Casuals, non Elitist´s and non Add on users - but its so damn hard. Yesterday I met some Orc who gave me food, this was the biggest RP moment so far in ESO and its a real pity.

Especially with a Megaserver you need a questionnaire in place. At wow we had specific servers with tight communities so you could filter, but at ESO? Everyone is at the same server, its really difficult to find like minded players.

knaveofengland

well all mmos are made should say have to be made for most solo play ,reason most want it that way its called player greed .
the guilds shop in time I think will have a general shop/ auction place hope fully it be like runescape model .
so with most wanting solo leaves a problem ,for the team play , do you have henchies/mercs like in gw make more quests with team play ,make it all dungeons need a team , can go on but hopefully you get the point.
you can join a guild who does events , guild I am in every night does pvp and has ts so you can play as a team I can tell you this is probally what you need to do, if you need a invite I ask the to send you a invite just pm me in game uk time in the evenings

d0e1ow

knaveofengland wrote: »

well all mmos are made should say have to be made for most solo play ,reason most want it that way its called player greed .
the guilds shop in time I think will have a general shop/ auction place hope fully it be like runescape model .
so with most wanting solo leaves a problem ,for the team play , do you have henchies/mercs like in gw make more quests with team play ,make it all dungeons need a team , can go on but hopefully you get the point.
you can join a guild who does events , guild I am in every night does pvp and has ts so you can play as a team I can tell you this is probally what you need to do, if you need a invite I ask the to send you a invite just pm me in game uk time in the evenings

Only because the reward structure and design of most theme park games (Alllll the way back to Everquest, folks) have rewarded and/or validated such greed. When designers move away from making games that reward such behavior, then you can take off the cynical kid gloves and start letting people play together in a game that rewards co-operation and being a contributing member of the community.

Guild Wars 2 doesn't seem to be afraid of its community. They released a patch a few months back with a world boss that you -could not- defeat without the rest of your group (we're talking over 100 other people from your server) performing well and getting it right. People whined, they moaned... on the forums.

In-game? The trolls were massively outnumbered by encouraging people, people organizing the group, people cheering one another on, people celebrating every time their server got a little closer. Then... magic... your server killed the boss and it was a happy, happy moment.

Why? Because the game rewards people for working together, it is baked into the very design and it is embraced. Your statement is only true if you believe in the cynical BS design of "PHAT LOOT GIMME GIMME" philosophy that permeates the entire hobby right now. It's a fad that people are getting sick of because it has poisoned this genre.

darkweed1977

Audigy wrote: »

I disagree with the OP.

I really played every MMO that exist´s with the exception of the Asian Grinders and ESO is one of the better games out there.

Grouping works so much better here than in any other MMO before. You play together and everyone can loot the quest mob, everyone gets the quest done and everyone gets XP.

At wow for instance only the player who tagged the mob gets the benefit of its kill, this is anti social and one of the results for the anti social community there.

Or what about the quest´s where you must find 20 paws and as soon you group with 4 others those 20 paws mutate into 100 as everyone has to find his own paws.

This problem you don't have at ESO and I love it this way.

I still spend Soulsgems in ESO to revive someone,

I might not say thanks every time, especially if I must get back to battle quickly, but I always thank my Healer after a run - also to those that let me die


TESO just like every MMO lacks some type of "questionnaire" where players could say what type of player they are and with what type of player they want to play.

I would love to tick a few boxes that bring me together with RP players, Casuals, non Elitist´s and non Add on users - but its so damn hard. Yesterday I met some Orc who gave me food, this was the biggest RP moment so far in ESO and its a real pity.

Especially with a Megaserver you need a questionnaire in place. At wow we had specific servers with tight communities so you could filter, but at ESO? Everyone is at the same server, its really difficult to find like minded players.

You forget that there are also loot ninjas in ESO, someone who gives a damn about the group fighting until they have looted the chest in the dungeon. Only that person get what is inside the chest and seeing that you dont get a loot table, but mostly greens and whites from bosses, this is a bad model which I hope they changed into a roll system or shared loot for chests too.

Regarding the every one can loot the same mob, then I find that a good idea too which helps you not getting stuck in a questing area for a long time waiting for mobs to spawn and then race to it trying to get the first hit.

Mortelus

You do realise that Craglorn is inbound, it's a huge area dedicated to group content.

I am pretty sure when its out there will be more groups for you to join and play with.

EDIT: And welcome to the world of MMO's where bad mouthing, mum jokes and immaturity are the norm, not the exception.

Lanatireb17_ESO

On the EU server, the only social interaction you see in zonechat is english speaker complaing constantly about non english speakers using their native language.

Adernath

IMO one of the biggest issues (apart from the phasing problem) is that we do not see our character names in guilds. It has been critizised since the game came out.

Mortelus

Lanatireb17_ESO wrote: »

On the EU server, the only social interaction you see in zonechat is english speaker complaing constantly about non english speakers using their native language.

Yes and that makes me ashamed to call myself English...

Morthur

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Mortelus

@morthur What he means is that the mechanics of looting, mob tagging etc... are done far better in this game than others, which i agree. Every player gets loot and or kill credit unlike many other games where it is a first come first serve deal.

He didn't mention the phasing mechanics, which to be honest, if you group with someone at the same stage as you it isn't a huge problem. But I also agree phasing could be made better.

darkweed1977

@Morthur‌ your post made me laugh, in a good way though. I don't know how many times I have found myself saying **** on my healer toon when you are phased into soloing the "boss" after having run around yawning while killing small mobs in a group where you would only heal once in a while, mostly when mobs respawn on top of you, because the place is overcrowded.

Morthur

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Spryt

I don't mind having to do puzzles or get quest updates myself when in group.

One thing I find even more annoying is when others in group can update your quest. Like interupt your dialog early and start next step. Or when you get a quest to kill somone only to get it updated by some random person that isn't even in your group.

Mortelus

Morthur wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

@morthur What he means is that the mechanics of looting, mob tagging etc... are done far better in this game than others, which i agree. Every player gets loot and or kill credit unlike many other games where it is a first come first serve deal.

He didn't mention the phasing mechanics, which to be honest, if you group with someone at the same stage as you it isn't a huge problem. But I also agree phasing could be made better.

In that case he doesn't mean a "grouping" system but rather a "tagging" system. Those two systems interact but they are in no way one and the same thing. ESO has a decent (if lazily designed) tagging system (unless of course you want to play as healer or support in which case you'll be left out) but it has a simply atrocious grouping system.

How is it lazy?

And yes, they a both terms which relate to a game mechanic. But because of the 'tagging' mechanic, the 'grouping' mechanic is better than in other MMO's, to the extent of which I can group and gather loot even if I do not attack the same mob as my partner, and we both get the quest complete even if I do not land a hit on the final mob.

But like I said, the phasing also makes it worse than in other MMO's, swings-and-roundabouts heh!

Selstad

Can't say I have the same experience as the OP have. Per example the other day, I was running around like a maniac trying not to die, someone came along, healed me up, then helped taking down what essential was a pile of spiders with an annoying bat on top with it. I said my thanks, he responded, we continued and did the quest in that part together.

Another time in another zone - also Veteran rank - I came across a chest. It was guarded however by 3 mobs. I started killing, then another one showed up, helped taking down the mobs, then just stood there, whispered me that he couldn't in clean conscious take the chest as he knew I was going for it.

I have nothing but good experience of the community in this game. I've helped my share of people and had my share of people helping me out. I'm in 2 social guilds that are very active with a lot of talk, and a very good community all inn.

Now compare this to another MMO that certainly does have the worst community ever; World of Warcraft. Not that it's possible to die in the world anyway, but if you do and someone's around, chances are they'll laugh at you then move on, leaving you to die. If you kill monsters around a farming nod and someone comes along, chances are they'll take the nod and move on. And lets not get started with the PuG groups.

So taken into comparison, ESO is a few lightyears away from even contemplation of the worst community out there. WoW still has that seat, at least for my part.

mutharex

Ah, hyperbole, the true telling sign of a pointless discussion

Morthur

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Pretext

Bringing in a AH will not make the game more multiplayer.

There is not much they can do about this but a couple of things: They need to bring in name plates and guild name plates. they need to ensure phasing is keeping guilds, groups and friends together.

Have you ever played a MMO where there were not hundreds of players just going around soloing? It is the curse of MMO's and it will only change when players change, not games.

Alurria

Morthur wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

How is it lazy?

Perhaps lazy is the wrong word...

What I mean is: in most games a mob simply has one set of loot - and in the end each mob can only be looted by a specific person (quest items are often an exception since they are created for everyone who has the quest and tagged the mob). In ESO one mob can be looted by multiple people as long as each of them deal enough damage to get over some specific threshold. The game simply creates loot for everyone who tagged a mob out of thin air instead of having a regular tagging system. It also doesn't seem to take things like healing and aggro into account.

It's basically an overly simple system - and it doesn't allow for the devs to really control how rare certain items/drops are. Normally these things are controlled via mob density, respawn rate, likelihood of an item dropping and competition (other people you have to compete against for the limited loot available). In ESO each mob in the game could theoretically be looted by only a singe player or by an entire raid - must be paradise for multi-boxers or botters (and sucks for people who want to play a role in a group that doesn't primarily involve killing things and/or spreading your "tags" around).

Anyway, I don't really have a problem with the tagging system. The only thing that I'm somewhat worried about is the effect that such a system could have on the in-game economy. Now the "grouping system" - that I have a problem with (and hope that many of these issues will be addressed ASAP).

I'm puzzled at how you can call it a quick and dirty system? That doesn't make sense to me, when everyone gets loot? Do you think one person should have control? Ninja looter comes to my mind, this prevents that from happening. What's the point of this thread loot? Grouping? AH? Name tags? Or just another rant, complaint about this game that leaves you shaking your head and wondering why? Just curious?

mutharex

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Morthur wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

How is it lazy?

Perhaps lazy is the wrong word...

What I mean is: in most games a mob simply has one set of loot - and in the end each mob can only be looted by a specific person (quest items are often an exception since they are created for everyone who has the quest and tagged the mob). In ESO one mob can be looted by multiple people as long as each of them deal enough damage to get over some specific threshold. The game simply creates loot for everyone who tagged a mob out of thin air instead of having a regular tagging system. It also doesn't seem to take things like healing and aggro into account.

It's basically an overly simple system - and it doesn't allow for the devs to really control how rare certain items/drops are. Normally these things are controlled via mob density, respawn rate, likelihood of an item dropping and competition (other people you have to compete against for the limited loot available). In ESO each mob in the game could theoretically be looted by only a singe player or by an entire raid - must be paradise for multi-boxers or botters (and sucks for people who want to play a role in a group that doesn't primarily involve killing things and/or spreading your "tags" around).

Anyway, I don't really have a problem with the tagging system. The only thing that I'm somewhat worried about is the effect that such a system could have on the in-game economy. Now the "grouping system" - that I have a problem with (and hope that many of these issues will be addressed ASAP).

I'm puzzled at how you can call it a quick and dirty system? That doesn't make sense to me, when everyone gets loot? Do you think one person should have control? Ninja looter comes to my mind, this prevents that from happening. What's the point of this thread loot? Grouping? AH? Name tags? Or just another rant, complaint about this game that leaves you shaking your head and wondering why? Just curious?

you could say every thread was pointless and whiney. so should we only discuss things you agree with? 

AreoHotah

darkweed1977 wrote: »

This is probably the worst MMO I have played when it comes to community and for me it is more a MSO (Massive Singleplayer Onlinegame) than it is a MMO.
The guilds I have tried to be in is only focusing on trade, which make me wish for an Auction house, but I will leave that as it is as that topic have already been all over the forum.

Players in this game are 99% running around soloing and yes it is good for people who just want to play the game on a casual basis that they do not need to be in a guild to do stuff, but then again, they do if they want more.

There are no community feeling, you do not feel you are a part of a MMO, except all the spam from gold sellers and bots running around. When you talk in chat, which I honestly don't do anymore, you get namecalling and bad mouthing. When you are running around in the world and help a player that is near death, you will not get even the smallest "ty" in say-chat. My experience with this game so far, is that I could easily just have played Skyrim with a lot of bots running around and not a MMO.

So for me, as long as the ingame community is so bad, I will probably enjoy the solo part of the game and then call it a day, like I would with every other Singleplayer game out there.

Are you on EU servers? If yes,then join my guild. We are 50 members atm. we have lvl 20 and vr10 players. ask us anything on chat or even better join us on ts. no elitist just fun

ts3.pureclan.pl

cheeers.

Alurria

mutharex wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Morthur wrote: »

Mortelus wrote: »

How is it lazy?

Perhaps lazy is the wrong word...

What I mean is: in most games a mob simply has one set of loot - and in the end each mob can only be looted by a specific person (quest items are often an exception since they are created for everyone who has the quest and tagged the mob). In ESO one mob can be looted by multiple people as long as each of them deal enough damage to get over some specific threshold. The game simply creates loot for everyone who tagged a mob out of thin air instead of having a regular tagging system. It also doesn't seem to take things like healing and aggro into account.

It's basically an overly simple system - and it doesn't allow for the devs to really control how rare certain items/drops are. Normally these things are controlled via mob density, respawn rate, likelihood of an item dropping and competition (other people you have to compete against for the limited loot available). In ESO each mob in the game could theoretically be looted by only a singe player or by an entire raid - must be paradise for multi-boxers or botters (and sucks for people who want to play a role in a group that doesn't primarily involve killing things and/or spreading your "tags" around).

Anyway, I don't really have a problem with the tagging system. The only thing that I'm somewhat worried about is the effect that such a system could have on the in-game economy. Now the "grouping system" - that I have a problem with (and hope that many of these issues will be addressed ASAP).

I'm puzzled at how you can call it a quick and dirty system? That doesn't make sense to me, when everyone gets loot? Do you think one person should have control? Ninja looter comes to my mind, this prevents that from happening. What's the point of this thread loot? Grouping? AH? Name tags? Or just another rant, complaint about this game that leaves you shaking your head and wondering why? Just curious?

you could say every thread was pointless and whiney. so should we only discuss things you agree with?

Silly me....I should have had a V8. But point well taken.