WW are losing access to Grim Focus

Nebs · August 2023

With the fix to stop Grim Focus from operating on the backbar for Werewolves, NBs can no longer benefit from Grim Focus at all. Currently on live, if you activate it before shifting you can enjoy the buff until it decays.

Could the alternative be if Grim Focus is on the bar you have Werewolf Transformation slotted you can continue to benefit from the passive Power buff?

Norith_Gilheart_Flail · August 2023

Wasn't there another thing, back in the day, also gutted because of how it could impact werewolves?

Delete werewolves.

Nebs · August 2023

You seem to be misunderstanding, the fix last week didn't affect anything except Werewolves (and the Oakensoul ring). So, nothing got gutted. I like the small buffs here and there that class can contribute to a werewolf transformation so it was disappointing to see the ability get changed that takes the existing behavior on Live and removes the possibility entirely.

I think werewolves are strongest when you get your DoTs and Buffs out then transform, and that's how Grim Focus works on live. Buff > transform > untransform when buffs expire. With so many abilities getting longer timers the werewolf transform is actually seeing improvements here and there when the transformation isn't considered in a vacuum.

Panderbander · August 2023

Nebs wrote: »

You seem to be misunderstanding, the fix last week didn't affect anything except Werewolves (and the Oakensoul ring). So, nothing got gutted. I like the small buffs here and there that class can contribute to a werewolf transformation so it was disappointing to see the ability get changed that takes the existing behavior on Live and removes the possibility entirely.

I think werewolves are strongest when you get your DoTs and Buffs out then transform, and that's how Grim Focus works on live. Buff > transform > untransform when buffs expire. With so many abilities getting longer timers the werewolf transform is actually seeing improvements here and there when the transformation isn't considered in a vacuum.

No serious werewolf is popping in and out of form to toss some dots that will be cleansed a few seconds after being applied onto someone. The ones I do see trying that are typically dead moments after losing form.

Nebs · August 2023

Well, that's fair. I can't imagine it's easy to build Ult in PVP, either - but the burst potential probably has to kept in mind.

In any case, I'd just like to see Grim Focus work on NB werewolves if it's on the bar used to transform.

RaptorRodeoGod · August 2023

They should allow non-werewolf skills to be slotted on the werewolf bar, but not let you cast them. Would be nice

Panderbander · August 2023

On the topic of losing access to buffs that could be carried over, sorcerer wolves will also be losing the 8% max health they could carry into form for having Bound Armaments active before transforming. Not as impactful, but yet another thing taken away.

Erickson9610 · August 2023

ZOS should revert this change that disallows "either bar" skills from being benefitted from while in Werewolf form or with Oakensoul equipped.

The requirement for "either bar" buffs is that the skill is slotted on either bar. Why should we be penalized for choosing not to use our other bar? We fulfill the requirements to get "either bar" buffs under these conditions.

Nebs · August 2023

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ZOS should revert this change that disallows "either bar" skills from being benefitted from while in Werewolf form or with Oakensoul equipped.

The requirement for "either bar" buffs is that the skill is slotted on either bar. Why should we be penalized for choosing not to use our other bar? We fulfill the requirements to get "either bar" buffs under these conditions.

Maybe it's something that can be revisited when more classes have access to the behavior/mechanic?

Panderbander · August 2023

Oakensoul states "While equipped, you are unable to swap between your primary and back up weapon sets". It does not say you are unable to benefit from abilities on your current non-active bar.

Edit: I wanted to add, if I decide to run a "one bar" build without Oakensoul so that I never swap bars, should I not get the benefit of Grim Focus being on my back bar, too?

Vaqual · August 2023

You people know exactly that Oakensoul doesn't need/deserve 300+ free WD, even asking is absurd.
The werewolf thing is a fair point tho.

tomofhyrule · August 2023

Panderbander wrote: »

Oakensoul states "While equipped, you are unable to swap between your primary and back up weapon sets". It does not say you are unable to benefit from abilities on your current non-active bar.

Edit: I wanted to add, if I decide to run a "one bar" build without Oakensoul so that I never swap bars, should I not get the benefit of Grim Focus being on my back bar, too?

I mean, that is kinda breaking the spirit of the rule if not the letter.

The spirit of Oakensoul is "you can't access anything on your back bar," so coming in with a "well, I'm just using it to transfer a buff over but I'm not actually casting it" is totally counter to the spirit of the item.

And as much as I'd like to see Werewolves get some buffs to be something more than a meme, I can see why WW also has that excluded - it basically means that only certain classes of WW would be 'viable,' as DK/Warden/Templar/Necros who get Hircine's blessing will end up weaker than Sorc/NB/Arcanist wolves because they have that loophole. That's why it was closed.

Instead of trying to buff specific classes of WW, what they should do is just make WW viable no matter what.

Werewolf needs to be looked at as a class of its own, not just an ultimate. ZOS even said a while back that the idea of werewolf was to stay in it the whole time, so it does need some help since it shouldn't be considered with anything the human form would have since those timers would be expired. And unlike classes that have choices of 5 skills from 3 class lines, 2 weapon lines (one for each bar), and a handful of other guild and world lines, WW only has a combination of the same five skills. And that's it.

I'd love to see some things like the following to make Hircine's children better to use... and even the possibilty to use them as supports without relying on sets like Tormentor:

Hircine's Rage: Give berserk no matter the cost and remove the damage taken penalty
Hircine's Fortitude: Make it heal others in the area similar to vigor as well
Howl of Agony: make it taunt

But yeah, I love playing my wolf (I especially love weretanking with him but that's 100% a meme build, as fun as it it).

Erickson9610 · August 2023

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'd love to see some things like the following to make Hircine's children better to use... and even the possibilty to use them as supports without relying on sets like Tormentor:
Hircine's Rage: Give berserk no matter the cost and remove the damage taken penalty

Hircine's Fortitude: Make it heal others in the area similar to vigor as well

Howl of Agony: make it taunt

But yeah, I love playing my wolf (I especially love weretanking with him but that's 100% a meme build, as fun as it it).

On the subject of werewolf tanking, it's bizarre that we are allowed to build tanky but not allowed to actually be tanks. The Pack Leader morph appears to be designed to be the "support/tanking" morph, given how it provides Minor Courage to group members and grants damage mitigation.

However, I would suggest that the taunt be tied to Feral Pounce, as that skill restores Stamina whenever the initial hit or the DoT deals damage; that skill already feels designed to be used for tanking.

I personally use Howl of Agony in PvE as a damage dealer, since that provides better damage at the tradeoff of standing where the tank is, in melee range of the boss, while occasionally burning 1/3 of my Magicka on Hircine's Rage, my only heal ability, hoping that I'm at 100% Health when I cast it to get a damage boost... which causes me to take 5% extra damage. A meme spec, you say?