So does Zenimax Studios have an explanation for this situation involving a Trans employee ?

alternatelder · July 2023

I read just about every single post up until yesterday, I didn't want to bother commenting on this situation. I saw one single transphobic comment. It's kinda sickening to see that every single opposing (logical) viewpoint on why they were fired is construed as "transphobic". Honestly the reason Zos should shut this down already and ban those calling people transphobes for bashing.

tyrobia · July 2023

alternatelder wrote: »

I read just about every single post up until yesterday, I didn't want to bother commenting on this situation. I saw one single transphobic comment. It's kinda sickening to see that every single opposing (logical) viewpoint on why they were fired is construed as "transphobic". Honestly the reason Zos should shut this down already and ban those calling people transphobes for bashing.

First, this thread has been moderated and the most transphobic posts have been edited or removed. Regardless, just because you think something isn't transphobic doesn't mean that it actually isn't. And if you have been reading the thread since the beginning and saw some of the worst posts before they were removed, well, then that tells me all I need to know.

Secondly, Leona wasn't fired, she was forced to resign as part of an agreement with ZoS. This is not something that companies tend to do when they could just fire an underperforming employee for cause.

I_killed_Vivec · July 2023

Holycannoli wrote: »

Seriously though I got an official warning last year for Naming and Shaming after I said

Don't worry, Nocturnal's Ploy will take the top spot as most annoying PvP set soon enough.

(it was reversed because it was an obvious mistake)

and here is this thread still up with ZERO moderation. It should have been nuked right away. Not closed, not moderated, but nuked. Deleted. No warnings necessary for anyone participating, just delete it. It has no place on this forum. I don't understand what's going on?

Hoot... someone I know might have said something similar. If they did say it then that person's post was removed and they might have received a threatening notice from ZoS about not discussing disciplinary procedure.

They are moderating this thread, just not how you might imagine.

ArchMikem · July 2023

Narvuntien wrote: »

glitter wrote: »

Snip

Do you guys want unionisation materials?

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

Lumenn · July 2023

ArchMikem wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

glitter wrote: »

Snip

Do you guys want unionisation materials?

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

I love me some right to work states 👍

Bucky_13 · July 2023

ArchMikem wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

glitter wrote: »

Snip

Do you guys want unionisation materials?

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

From the states I guess?

alternatelder · July 2023

Tyrobius wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

I read just about every single post up until yesterday, I didn't want to bother commenting on this situation. I saw one single transphobic comment. It's kinda sickening to see that every single opposing (logical) viewpoint on why they were fired is construed as "transphobic". Honestly the reason Zos should shut this down already and ban those calling people transphobes for bashing.

First, this thread has been moderated and the most transphobic posts have been edited or removed. Regardless, just because you think something isn't transphobic doesn't mean that it actually isn't. And if you have been reading the thread since the beginning and saw some of the worst posts before they were removed, well, then that tells me all I need to know.

Secondly, Leona wasn't fired, she was forced to resign as part of an agreement with ZoS. This is not something that companies tend to do when they could just fire an underperforming employee for cause.

Fired, forced to resign...same thing. I'm watching replies, like yours, that are blatantly calling anything transphobia. Wish I took screenshots of even the edited/removed posts of slight trolling you probably stayed up all night reporting. Comments like this (bold) tell me what type of person you are.

Alpheu5 · July 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Third, wanting a thread to be deleted is censorship, the exact same thing that you are accusing others of. It appears that you want this issue to be hidden because discussing it makes you uncomfortable. Well, it would make others uncomfortable if it was swept under the rug

I've had a couple threads in the past, started by me, mattered to me, and deleted for one reason or another and no one got up in arms about it on my behalf. Why should other threads get such special treatment when they blatantly violate the ToS here?

This is a very strange type of logic to me. This thread should be deleted because yours were also deleted in the past? I don’t know what yours were about but what you are effectively saying here is that you agree with ZOS deleting your threads in the past. Interesting stance to take.

Just saying, rules should be rules, no matter the topic.

Exactly... The rules clearly state that Inappropriate Content and Language (Real-world religion and politics) aren't allowed on the forums... yet this thread is still up..

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules <~~~~ rules are the rules... I'm not being biased... just following the rules.. which should be enforced.

Thus sayeth Da Rules:

Enforcement and application of the ESO Community Code of Conduct will be at the sole discretion of ZeniMax Online Studios, and authorized members of the ESO Team.

Dr_Con · July 2023

Alpheu5 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Third, wanting a thread to be deleted is censorship, the exact same thing that you are accusing others of. It appears that you want this issue to be hidden because discussing it makes you uncomfortable. Well, it would make others uncomfortable if it was swept under the rug

I've had a couple threads in the past, started by me, mattered to me, and deleted for one reason or another and no one got up in arms about it on my behalf. Why should other threads get such special treatment when they blatantly violate the ToS here?

This is a very strange type of logic to me. This thread should be deleted because yours were also deleted in the past? I don’t know what yours were about but what you are effectively saying here is that you agree with ZOS deleting your threads in the past. Interesting stance to take.

Just saying, rules should be rules, no matter the topic.

Exactly... The rules clearly state that Inappropriate Content and Language (Real-world religion and politics) aren't allowed on the forums... yet this thread is still up..

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules <~~~~ rules are the rules... I'm not being biased... just following the rules.. which should be enforced.

Thus sayeth Da Rules:

Enforcement and application of the ESO Community Code of Conduct will be at the sole discretion of ZeniMax Online Studios, and authorized members of the ESO Team.

How they exercised that discretion to enforce the rules and the community's inability to stay on topic sets a grim precedence. This thread, including deleted comments, should be studied by ZOS to determine the direction they want to take this community and how to properly respond to situations like this in the future.

NordSwordnBoard · July 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

According to @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/

The following rules have been broken on this thread:
Abusive Language and Disruptive Behavior

Bashing and Slanderous Comments

Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation

Demands and Threats

Flaming

Hate Speech

Inappropriate Content and Language (Real-world religion and politics)

Naming-and-Shaming

Rude and Insulting Comments

Thread Bumping

Trolling or Baiting

Why make the rules when they're not going to be enforced?

1 Shut it down and lose customers, potentially a large number, no real way to predict that. The people with real attachment to this issue may very well speak with the wallet.

2 leave it open the people complaining it's not shut down will continue to play the game, but be mad about this thread.

3 Revenue is king, don't fool yourself. They made these rules, they are not a social contract or bill of rights. They can ignore them at will, who would stop them?

Were not entitled to an answer... just like whenever we report a player ingame.. were not entitled to hear the results. They specifically say it in their auto-reply: "To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation."

This is between Leona Faren, ZOS/Bethesda/Microsoft, and the courts. I highly doubt for a moment that a large number of people are going to quit the game over a thread being closed.

Proceed with your high doubts, the thread is still open and you are bewildered as to why. There's no way you can predict the number of protest quits. That's impossible. Again, what are you going to do to make them enforce their own rules? So far everything you said has been ineffective. Revenue will determine what happens, not some adherence to forum rules by the rule makers. No forum user will enforce anything.

This actual thread could become part of the case, shutting it down makes them look guilty. If they aren't guilty, letting voices be heard despite forum violations shows they are open minded, more than they neeeded to be. Image vs reality. Project your image, that's what sells. Sales are all that matters. Successful video games make the news, others are just forgotten. This is making news.

Syldras · July 2023

Rampeal wrote: »

What if my Religion forbids me from participating such behavior and thus forbids me from supporting it? Does their rights supercede my rights? To tell me how to think and feel?

Don't know about the USA. I live in a secular country in Europe. Here, it's clear that there is freedom of religion, but the country's law stands above religious rules. So everyone is free to practice their religion as long as there's no conflict with law (including basic/civil rights and laws against discrimination). Of course, everyone can think everything they want. But they can't discriminate or insult other people just because their lifestyle hurts their religious feelings. Hate speech is still hate speech. No one says anyone has to proactively support whatever minority, but tolerance is the minimum requirement. In short form: If you don't like it - look away and leave them alone.

Rampeal wrote: »

Good and Evil are just different points of views.

With this phrase you could justify every type of crime, including torture, mutilation and murder. Good that mankind has moved forward and many countries have signed declations of human rights (the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" being only one of them).

Rampeal wrote: »

Some consider the act of homosexuality good, others consider it evil.

Same goes for religion, by the way. How about the wonderful thing called tolerance? Just don't interfere with other people's way of life?

Rampeal wrote: »

So are you implying that being Trans is a medical condition such as gender dysphoria, schizophrenia, or bipolar? Or is it a gender identity? Because it can not be both.

If you think closely about it you might realize that in medical trans care, not the trans identity is cured. Btw, as far as I know, employers are forbidden to share any medical information, including about pregnancy. Pregnancy is no illness either, but (mostly - I know some people give birth at home without medical assistance) requires some type of medical support, so it is considered a medical topic.

Froil · July 2023

ArchMikem wrote: »

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

Ah yes the evil unions that helped you get sick days, 8 hour work days, etc...
https://m.ufcw1500.org/get-educated/what-unions-have-done-for-you

DaciValt · July 2023

Am from a strange place of thought where that if you aren't going into work regularly then yes you should be fired but thats just me.

ArchMikem · July 2023

Froil wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

Ah yes the evil unions that helped you get sick days, 8 hour work days, etc...
https://m.ufcw1500.org/get-educated/what-unions-have-done-for-you

I work 3 12hrs and without a union my company gives me sick and vacation time as well as 8hrs extra pay for Federal Holidays, but I already lose hundreds a paycheck for insurance, income tax, 401k, and social security. A union would just add to that with dues and I'm already paycheck to paycheck. Not to mention the horror stories I've been told of my Father's history with his Union at Boeing.

Oh, and an annual bonus based on performance.

Syldras · July 2023

Carcamongus wrote: »

Granted, I had to correct my statement and do some research after another user questioned it, but the core remained unchanged: you're born like that. I'll go further now and say the signs someone's trans tend to start in childhood, when a kid starts to identify with behaviors and traits of the opposite gender, such a biological boy wearing dresses.

Yes, that's another good point: Many trans people realize it already in their childhood before they ever felt attracted to anyone, so sexual attraction can't be an explanation.

Also, I'd like to add that that the whole "child with male body likes to wear dresses" thing (an example I see quite often) doesn't mean that there's a natural relation between women and dresses. That's nonsense. It's about cultural attributes. The child sees that girls often wear dresses, so it wants to wear one too because it identifies as belonging to the group of girls. And that's an individual thing, too; some trans women don't care for feminine clothing at all, and wearing feminine clothing doesn't neccessarily mean that a person identifies as a woman either.

Carcamongus · July 2023

Syldras wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

Granted, I had to correct my statement and do some research after another user questioned it, but the core remained unchanged: you're born like that. I'll go further now and say the signs someone's trans tend to start in childhood, when a kid starts to identify with behaviors and traits of the opposite gender, such a biological boy wearing dresses.

Yes, that's another good point: Many trans people realize it already in their childhood before they ever felt attracted to anyone, so sexual attraction can't be an explanation.

Also, I'd like to add that that the whole "child with male body likes to wear dresses" thing (an example I see quite often) doesn't mean that there's a natural relation between women and dresses. That's nonsense. It's about cultural attributes. The child sees that girls often wear dresses, so it wants to wear one too because it identifies as belonging to the group of girls. And that's an individual thing, too; some trans women don't care for feminine clothing at all, and wearing feminine clothing doesn't neccessarily mean that a person identifies as a woman either.

You're right. I probably mentioned that example because yesterday I saw a video about a US trans girl who did just that.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · July 2023

Syldras wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

Granted, I had to correct my statement and do some research after another user questioned it, but the core remained unchanged: you're born like that. I'll go further now and say the signs someone's trans tend to start in childhood, when a kid starts to identify with behaviors and traits of the opposite gender, such a biological boy wearing dresses.

Yes, that's another good point: Many trans people realize it already in their childhood before they ever felt attracted to anyone, so sexual attraction can't be an explanation.

Also, I'd like to add that that the whole "child with male body likes to wear dresses" thing (an example I see quite often) doesn't mean that there's a natural relation between women and dresses. That's nonsense. It's about cultural attributes. The child sees that girls often wear dresses, so it wants to wear one too because it identifies as belonging to the group of girls. And that's an individual thing, too; some trans women don't care for feminine clothing at all, and wearing feminine clothing doesn't necessarily mean that a person identifies as a woman either.

Yes many trans people start to develop their gender association and affinity as children. However people have to be careful at younger ages as many children that will grow up to be cisgender will also experiment as they learn who they are and where they fit in the world. Things like wearing opposite sex clothing or playing with toys that historically have been associated with the opposite sex on their own are not good indicators that a child might be trans. Even a young girl insisting she is a boy or vice versa is not indicative over the short term. It takes patience on the parent's part to let the child experiment and develop. By allowing the child to develop at their own pace over time the parent's should be able to determine if the child is truly trans based on long term indicators.

Syldras · July 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

(I suggest you look up Ray Blanchard. I don't want to repeat his research and theories here because they're a hot topic, but it could give you food for thought and lead you down other avenues.)

So, you lastly stated you do not support the theories of Blanchard but named him only as an example. Any other suggestions which authors and studies to read, then? Ones you find plausible? Or anyone else who has a suggestion?

Because for me, Blanchard's writings which literally call straight trans women cases of "extreme homosexuality" (not even "extreme effeminacy", but "extreme homosexuality", which doesn't make any sense without the weird premise that homosexual men were effeminate - otherwise an "extremely homosexual" man would be a man extremely attracted to the same sex, not someone identifying as a woman), definitively do not convince me. And lately, looking him up online mostly leads to very unsavory and biased people whose writings don't have much to do with science anymore (if you decide beforehand what the result of a study should be and arrange everything so it pushes your narrative, it's not science but propaganda).

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Things like wearing opposite sex clothing or playing with toys that historically have been associated with the opposite sex on their own are not good indicators that a child might be trans.

I fully agree. I already wrote a few days ago that I am not a fan of gender stereotyping/roles in general because I see it as uselessly limiting people's freedom as well as ostracizing people with "untypical" behavior. Worst, if people don't even realize anymore that gender roles are not nature, but culturally conditioned, different from culture to culture, and subject to change.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

It takes patience on the parent's part to let the child experiment and develop. By allowing the child to develop at their own pace over time the parent's should be able to determine if the child is truly trans based on long term indicators.

This.

AzuraFan · July 2023

Syldras wrote: »

So, you lastly stated you do not support the theories of Blanchard but named him only as an example. Any other suggestions which authors and studies to read, then? Ones you find plausible? Or anyone else who has a suggestion?

I still haven't said what I personally think of Blanchard's theories. I've merely encouraged people to use him as a starting point (because he's widely quoted, both in support of him and to refute him, so you can't help but come across him if you start to dig into the area) and to do their own research.

As for what I do think of Blanchard's theories or who else to look into, nah, I'm done. I'll take a cue from the moderators, who wisely deleted our last exchange on this topic, and also because I was being personally attacked for no reason (not by you).

I encourage you to do what I encouraged people to do regarding Blanchard (and I still encourage people to do that, rather than to put any stock into what someone else is telling you his theories are about): do your own research.

And now I'm really out of this thread. Put words in my mouth. Do whatever you want. I won't be reading this thread again.

Four_Fingers · July 2023

These types of threads always end up boiling down to a handful of posters arguing their point back and forth and get nasty.
That is why they are unhealthy in a gaming forum.

Jammy420 · July 2023

Saint-Ange wrote: »

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

Speaking up for minorities is always worth it. If they ban the OP it just looks even worse for them.

alternatelder wrote: »

I read just about every single post up until yesterday, I didn't want to bother commenting on this situation. I saw one single transphobic comment. It's kinda sickening to see that every single opposing (logical) viewpoint on why they were fired is construed as "transphobic". Honestly the reason Zos should shut this down already and ban those calling people transphobes for bashing.

Ah yes, people act bigoted, and then the people calling them out for that are bad. Ok, nice victim blaming.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

glitter wrote: »

Snip

Do you guys want unionisation materials?

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

Unions are the reason we have any form of workers rights, paying 20 bucks a year isnt going to hurt you, lol.

Dr_Con wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Third, wanting a thread to be deleted is censorship, the exact same thing that you are accusing others of. It appears that you want this issue to be hidden because discussing it makes you uncomfortable. Well, it would make others uncomfortable if it was swept under the rug

I've had a couple threads in the past, started by me, mattered to me, and deleted for one reason or another and no one got up in arms about it on my behalf. Why should other threads get such special treatment when they blatantly violate the ToS here?

This is a very strange type of logic to me. This thread should be deleted because yours were also deleted in the past? I don’t know what yours were about but what you are effectively saying here is that you agree with ZOS deleting your threads in the past. Interesting stance to take.

Just saying, rules should be rules, no matter the topic.

Exactly... The rules clearly state that Inappropriate Content and Language (Real-world religion and politics) aren't allowed on the forums... yet this thread is still up..

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules <~~~~ rules are the rules... I'm not being biased... just following the rules.. which should be enforced.

Thus sayeth Da Rules:

Enforcement and application of the ESO Community Code of Conduct will be at the sole discretion of ZeniMax Online Studios, and authorized members of the ESO Team.

How they exercised that discretion to enforce the rules and the community's inability to stay on topic sets a grim precedence. This thread, including deleted comments, should be studied by ZOS to determine the direction they want to take this community and how to properly respond to situations like this in the future.

Edit for new info.

alternatelder · July 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

Speaking up for minorities is always worth it. If they ban the OP it just looks even worse for them.

alternatelder wrote: »

I read just about every single post up until yesterday, I didn't want to bother commenting on this situation. I saw one single transphobic comment. It's kinda sickening to see that every single opposing (logical) viewpoint on why they were fired is construed as "transphobic". Honestly the reason Zos should shut this down already and ban those calling people transphobes for bashing.

Ah yes, people act bigoted, and then the people calling them out for that are bad. Ok, nice victim blaming.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

glitter wrote: »

Snip

Do you guys want unionisation materials?

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

Unions are the reason we have any form of workers rights, paying 20 bucks a year isnt going to hurt you, lol.

Dr_Con wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Third, wanting a thread to be deleted is censorship, the exact same thing that you are accusing others of. It appears that you want this issue to be hidden because discussing it makes you uncomfortable. Well, it would make others uncomfortable if it was swept under the rug

I've had a couple threads in the past, started by me, mattered to me, and deleted for one reason or another and no one got up in arms about it on my behalf. Why should other threads get such special treatment when they blatantly violate the ToS here?

This is a very strange type of logic to me. This thread should be deleted because yours were also deleted in the past? I don’t know what yours were about but what you are effectively saying here is that you agree with ZOS deleting your threads in the past. Interesting stance to take.

Just saying, rules should be rules, no matter the topic.

Exactly... The rules clearly state that Inappropriate Content and Language (Real-world religion and politics) aren't allowed on the forums... yet this thread is still up..

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules <~~~~ rules are the rules... I'm not being biased... just following the rules.. which should be enforced.

Thus sayeth Da Rules:

Enforcement and application of the ESO Community Code of Conduct will be at the sole discretion of ZeniMax Online Studios, and authorized members of the ESO Team.

How they exercised that discretion to enforce the rules and the community's inability to stay on topic sets a grim precedence. This thread, including deleted comments, should be studied by ZOS to determine the direction they want to take this community and how to properly respond to situations like this in the future.

They are based in texas, you can bet its going to go in a bigoted direction that coddles transphobes.

There it is again, pretending an opposing viewpoint no matter what it is, is bigoted. Keep trolling, I'll keep reporting it.

TaSheen · July 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

They are based in texas, you can bet its going to go in a bigoted direction that coddles transphobes.

Actually:

ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS (ZOS) is the award-winning developer behind the online RPG The Elder Scrolls® Online and an all-new unannounced AAA IP. Headquartered in Hunt Valley, Maryland, but with offices throughout the US, we create immersive worlds where you can play your way and create your own story.

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/#:~:text=ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS (ZOS) is,and create your own story.

Jammy420 · July 2023

alternatelder wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

Speaking up for minorities is always worth it. If they ban the OP it just looks even worse for them.

alternatelder wrote: »

I read just about every single post up until yesterday, I didn't want to bother commenting on this situation. I saw one single transphobic comment. It's kinda sickening to see that every single opposing (logical) viewpoint on why they were fired is construed as "transphobic". Honestly the reason Zos should shut this down already and ban those calling people transphobes for bashing.

Ah yes, people act bigoted, and then the people calling them out for that are bad. Ok, nice victim blaming.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

glitter wrote: »

Snip

Do you guys want unionisation materials?

Eww. Unions are just the HoAs of the work place. Enough of my paychecks are deducted as is.

Unions are the reason we have any form of workers rights, paying 20 bucks a year isnt going to hurt you, lol.

Dr_Con wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

Third, wanting a thread to be deleted is censorship, the exact same thing that you are accusing others of. It appears that you want this issue to be hidden because discussing it makes you uncomfortable. Well, it would make others uncomfortable if it was swept under the rug

I've had a couple threads in the past, started by me, mattered to me, and deleted for one reason or another and no one got up in arms about it on my behalf. Why should other threads get such special treatment when they blatantly violate the ToS here?

This is a very strange type of logic to me. This thread should be deleted because yours were also deleted in the past? I don’t know what yours were about but what you are effectively saying here is that you agree with ZOS deleting your threads in the past. Interesting stance to take.

Just saying, rules should be rules, no matter the topic.

Exactly... The rules clearly state that Inappropriate Content and Language (Real-world religion and politics) aren't allowed on the forums... yet this thread is still up..

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules <~~~~ rules are the rules... I'm not being biased... just following the rules.. which should be enforced.

Thus sayeth Da Rules:

Enforcement and application of the ESO Community Code of Conduct will be at the sole discretion of ZeniMax Online Studios, and authorized members of the ESO Team.

How they exercised that discretion to enforce the rules and the community's inability to stay on topic sets a grim precedence. This thread, including deleted comments, should be studied by ZOS to determine the direction they want to take this community and how to properly respond to situations like this in the future.

They are based in texas, you can bet its going to go in a bigoted direction that coddles transphobes.

There it is again, pretending an opposing viewpoint no matter what it is, is bigoted. Keep trolling, I'll keep reporting it.

You can give bigotry a nice coat of paint and dress it up all you want, still bigotry.

TaSheen wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

They are based in texas, you can bet its going to go in a bigoted direction that coddles transphobes.

Actually:

ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS (ZOS) is the award-winning developer behind the online RPG The Elder Scrolls® Online and an all-new unannounced AAA IP. Headquartered in Hunt Valley, Maryland, but with offices throughout the US, we create immersive worlds where you can play your way and create your own story.

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/#:~:text=ZENIMAX ONLINE STUDIOS (ZOS) is,and create your own story.

Then it's even more outrageous considering Maryland is very progressive.

Hoghorn · July 2023

AzuraFan wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

So, you lastly stated you do not support the theories of Blanchard but named him only as an example. Any other suggestions which authors and studies to read, then? Ones you find plausible? Or anyone else who has a suggestion?

I still haven't said what I personally think of Blanchard's theories. I've merely encouraged people to use him as a starting point (because he's widely quoted, both in support of him and to refute him, so you can't help but come across him if you start to dig into the area) and to do their own research.

As for what I do think of Blanchard's theories or who else to look into, nah, I'm done. I'll take a cue from the moderators, who wisely deleted our last exchange on this topic, and also because I was being personally attacked for no reason (not by you).

I encourage you to do what I encouraged people to do regarding Blanchard (and I still encourage people to do that, rather than to put any stock into what someone else is telling you his theories are about): do your own research.

And now I'm really out of this thread. Put words in my mouth. Do whatever you want. I won't be reading this thread again.

back to recommending people check out white supremacist researchers huh?

ArchMikem · July 2023

The fact this is still open at this point is incredible. Are people even talking about the OP's person in question anymore?

Jammy420 · July 2023

Hoghorn wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

So, you lastly stated you do not support the theories of Blanchard but named him only as an example. Any other suggestions which authors and studies to read, then? Ones you find plausible? Or anyone else who has a suggestion?

I still haven't said what I personally think of Blanchard's theories. I've merely encouraged people to use him as a starting point (because he's widely quoted, both in support of him and to refute him, so you can't help but come across him if you start to dig into the area) and to do their own research.

As for what I do think of Blanchard's theories or who else to look into, nah, I'm done. I'll take a cue from the moderators, who wisely deleted our last exchange on this topic, and also because I was being personally attacked for no reason (not by you).

I encourage you to do what I encouraged people to do regarding Blanchard (and I still encourage people to do that, rather than to put any stock into what someone else is telling you his theories are about): do your own research.

And now I'm really out of this thread. Put words in my mouth. Do whatever you want. I won't be reading this thread again.

back to recommending people check out white supremacist researchers huh?

They think if they slap a suit on white supremists we should immediately respect their bigotry.

Lazarus_Rising · July 2023

We could give necromancer an execute or on-demand-stun in order to make them more viable in pvp.

Cutedge · July 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Then it's even more outrageous considering Maryland is very progressive.

The fact that it's Maryland is why it's a huge mistake that Leona posted her video (and did so a month after filing a lawsuit, while the case was winding through the courts. I'm sure her lawyers are thrilled). Maryland has strict wiretapping laws. It's pretty clear from her video that the recordings weren't made by recording in teams, it was external audio that includes keyboard and background audio. If that recording was not authorized by all parties, and it is most likely that it wasn't (I can't imagine HR is going to be on board with it) than that is a felony. Not a misdemeanor, a FELONY. She took this audio, and then dropped said audio in a youtube video to try to specifically try to damage Zenimax, which actually makes the recordings "tortious purpose" and in that case even with consent it is a felony.

The best thing Leona could do here is drop this and hope it goes away. I can't begin to imagine what it is like to go through all the changes she is going through but the fact of the matter is that from ZOS' perspective, they had a worker who was able to do work and then went into a months long (year long?) period where they no longer completed any work, and straight up asked to work on "personal work" in order to get another job at the company rather than working on their assigned tasks. Having her resign so that she could keep her healthcare was the best option, and instead she broke the law and will be lucky if she doesn't go to prison.

16BitForestCat · July 2023

All of you complaining that this thread is still going...you know that leaving new replies just bumps it back to the top of the page where everyone can be reminded it's here, right?

Personally, I enjoy seeing people naming-and-shaming themselves by revealing their true anti-LGBTQ+/anti-equity colors here (not that I've been surprised by the overwhelming majority of the usernames coming in here making such reveals). But if you really wanted the thread to fade away...continuing to come in here getting mad is not going to make it fade out any faster.