Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult

Kendaric · June 2023

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

It seems to me that if that scaling could be adjusted on a per-character basis, then individual players could make the content scale to be either more difficult or less difficult.

Content difficulty really only works if everyone playing side-by-side faces the same difficulty. Some may be better players. Some may have better gear. But they need to face the same thing. If Player X has themselves set to "veteran" and Player Y has themselves set to "normal", what happens when they both fight an enemy at same time? Can the normal player just stand there and facetank the boss, turning it into a glorified parse dummy for the veteran player? Or will the normal player come along and quickly burn down an enemy that the veteran player was expecting to be a long, mechanic-heavy, difficult fight? It could happen by accident, simply because those players are looking for different game experiences, or could happen on purpose, with people teaming up to de facto exploit the intended harder mode.

The player base would need to be split apart to match up people wanting similar challenges to make sure it stays at the intended difficulty level. If easy mode players are side by side with hard mode players, it is unavoidable that they will interfere with each other. ZOS will put time and money and resources and it will just get us right back where we are now: nobody, especially players looking for a stiff challenge, will be happy.

You either need separate, more difficult instances, which ZOS seem hesitant to implement. They have had difficult overland content in the past, it was largely empty and unpopular. Or you need clearly isolated and limited areas of increased difficulty, that can kind of act as "choke points", where those seeking higher difficulty will know where to congregate. Sort of like dragons. Generally only 1 up at a time, clearly marked on map, easy for players to find (or avoid).

But this idea of a toggle or slider, where players at different difficulties will fight side-by-side anywhere and everywhere, is just not practical. Neither group will be able to consistently and reliably get what they want.

Except I'm not sure whether that (the statement I bolded) is actually the case right now, due to scaling. And no, I don't really understand how the scaling works. I've read that everything is scaled to CP160, but I don't understand what that's saying. Are the enemies being scaled to CP160, or are the players being scaled to CP160? And what exactly is being scaled-- damage? or what? All I know is that I'm CP2022 and I can be fighting alongside a L10 player who is dishing out more damage per hit than I'm able to, and I assume that it's got something to do with whatever is being scaled and however it's being scaled.

Ok, let's see if I can explain it:

In ESO enemies are static at level 50 CP 160. However, the player is scaled/bolstered, which is the reason why the player gets weaker as level increases. This is also the reason why it's generally easier to do, for example, a public dungeon at level 20 or 25 than at level 40. Of course gear plays a significant role in this as well.

When a player reaches CP 160+ and their power increases again, to the point where all normal content is pathetically easy for them.
So essentially players with high CP are overleveling content, which makes any fight trivial of course.

As for your example: The level 10 character has stats a level 50 CP 160 character would have. However, as the game can't know how you'll distribute your stats, all your stats are increased to the extreme. Add to that the fact that the level 10 character may in fact be a level 10 CP 1500+ alt character...

richo262 · June 2023

The ones in Telvani are easy, perhaps the nightmare one is Medium.
The one with the prisoners (Northern) in Apoc is easy

Deep, Rune and the Seeker are hard, perhaps Rune is Medium if people destroy crystals and block in the green.

I'm fine with 3 easy and 3 hard. Or 2 easy, 2 medium, 2 hard.

flubber77 · June 2023

I dont get it why there always has to be someone who wants to nerf, if its npc or classes. Same thing, always nerf.
I want the difficulties from release back, when you did need to group up to kill trash mobs when you did lvl up. ofc without cp.

And now they complain on World Bosses is to hard?

First, WB is not ment to do solo but as an group effort and if you cant find players, come back in 10 min or 3 hours.
2nd, have you tested your self for dmg? Dor you run self heal? Sheild?

I dont have 100k dps or run trails each day and just grind for dps, i put most efforts into my character to survive and if i run into some problems i change strategies and try again until i kill what's in front of me.

But the avarage dps seems to be way to low and when asking what setup they run, they dont even have one, just random gear and weapons and traits. CP is put where they "feel" the most use of it like in self heal and nothing for dmg and they are far away from avarage gamers. When i see a player who started at the same time as my self and still dont have 500+ cp but claim to be avarage? Or they still run with green gear, have 0 gold items but want to do 100k dps.

Learn your build, get gear, build up for overland and you will make progress. Just dont cry NERF.

hrothbern · June 2023

Play how you want and a wide variation in the achieved CP level, combat experience & mechanics insight, and gear.
How to pick one difficulty level of a WB in an overland instance for all ?
You simply cannot satisfy everybody.

I favor some posts made here in this thread to give players the possibility to have a soft mode for a player when doing or joining a WB fight without affecting (at all or too much) the reward, with separate achievements for normal and soft mode.

My proposal to get that would to place a Sigil of Health / Ayleid Well near the WB area that gives for example 10-15k Health.

More Health performs miracles in survivability.
I think often underestimated. But you cannot heal yourself or someone who is dead because he got in one GCD more damage than total health and overhealing someone with a small Health pool is happening all the time, wasting a lot of healing.

It does not shorten the combat fight for groups to mere seconds and would be very easy to implement by ZOS.

pklemming · June 2023

The problem with the new world bosses is the players, not the bosses. People want to go in and parse on the boss, then wonder why they die. The bosses have mechanics, learn the mechanics.

The people calling for them to be easier, are looking to use the, "Press button, get loot" option, so prevalent in the game. Perhaps they should look at replacing them with 21million dummies that just sit there, putting out a token 5 damage every now and then. More health, zero risk.

Silaf · June 2023

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

pklemming · June 2023

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

CoolBlast3 · June 2023

Overworld is already easy enough. Get ZOS to add a difficulty toggle and then you can ask to nerf normal mode into being so easy you can one-tap a world boss like you so desire.

As it is, people who want to enjoy the game with any semblance of difficulty are forced into instanced areas, such as dungeons, trials, bastion nymic and hopefully the upcoming Q4 infinite dungeon. We're basically not given anywhere that we can enjoy stories and fighting literal gods without one shotting everything unless we go nude and literally only use our fists.

If ZOS ever adds a difficulty toggle, then sure, can make normal mode even more casual, but for now asking to nerf the few "difficult" (they aren't difficult for vet players) content we have just because you can't solo them is insane.

Aorys · June 2023

This game in general should be harder. There is no challenge when u get used to it

Just_Attivi · June 2023

Just leaving some thoughts on the World Boss difficulty, as viewed by an off-prime-time player with no trial gear, primarily solo or in a duo, save for occasional guild events (which will be excluded from this post, as having 20 people at any boss will make it significantly easier).

1- I have Solo'd all of the bosses on a properly geared toon. I found them all to be enjoyable (though the Seeker WB was a bit tedious to solo with the shields bouncing between the clones). I also solo'd most in outdated crafted leveling gear on my lvl 20-30 arcanist. Couldn't solo the walking nightmare, didnt try to solo the Seeker. but this was a character in level 4 training gear. Some took multiple tries, but it was doable.

2- I did not feel any were particularly impossible once I understood mechanics/learned what to block, what to dodge, what I can face tank and ignore etc.

3- I'm rarely online in prime time, I expected to encounter most bosses solo. that said, anytime people call out a WB in zone, I nearly always saw people responding, either in text or just showing up, myself included. Trying to solo bosses has been more commonly interrupted by others showing up (and pulling aggro with that arcanist skill... but thats a whole other topic).

4-I have seen whole groups wipe on bosses (and sometimes, its hysterical, and yes, I am laughing at guildies, they laughed too.) but it was almost always because people were entirely ignoring mechanics, attacking targets with an invulnerability shield, standing in danger circles, not healing themselves, never even touching the block button, let alone dodging or interrupting mechanics. and this is what I see with most people in zone, too. For a World Boss, I do not think it is far fetched to expect people to engage with game mechanics to succeed. If every encounter was just mindlessly hitting your spammable and not moving... theres better games for that style of gameplay. Is this a lot for a new player unfamiliar with game mechanics? sure. But its a world boss. I dont think I was able to solo any world bosses (base game included) when I was under CP 200 ish (though, that was also pre-hybridization and was significantly more difficult then). Same thing for doing it on a new toon, levelling without all passives, in outdated/random gear and no 5 piece bonuses. Sure, I did it, but I dig that kind of challenge. I dont think there should be any expectation to be able to solo a WB on an unprepared character.

5- I do think rewards should be increased, more so for Bastion Nymics, but potentially for WBs too (lets get something akin to Dragon Rheum, a farmable, potent alchemy mat, something to give sweatier players a reason to stick around besides furnishing plans. Id love a Columbine alternative, personally, I can easily eat through hundreds a week when I get serious about pvp, and thats $$$).
As someone who already farmed out the underwhelming overland sets, While I do enjoy doing the WBs when im there, I can see myself not bothering in some time without an increase to what drops (though, adding this at Q4 will revitalize the content for the Holiday season, and maybe give people a reason to farm the zone in preparation for the endless dungeons, but especially as far as daily content is concerned, people want rewards)

6- The addition of companions has been a huge boon to solo players. I have exactly zero of them myself, just not a system I cared to engage with, but have seen people utilizing the new Arcanist Companion as an absolutely fantastic healer, throwing shields, staying at distance, tossing heals and ranged attacks. I was genuinely surprised to see it live through World bosses, Vet hard mode dungeons, when my Duo brought him. If you are struggling to kill WBs and no one is around, consider setting your companions up as a healer, with ranged attacks, and yourself up as a DPS. pay attention to mechanics, and be geared/prepared for the challenges. Utilizing sets that provide damage shields can also give a lot of survivability for when you are unfamiliar with mechanics.

Without trying to call any one individual out, I can only say that the people I see asking for help in zone/saying how difficult things are, are the same people not engaging with mechanics, or showing up to fight a WB on a baby character. I do think perhaps, ZOS could add some additional prompts, like some addons do, to help tell players in overland how to handle some mechanics, so they can better understand what is happening, and develop their skills/knowledge. (I know there are tutorials/hints/prompts in settings that can be turned on, that I think most people ignore. But perhaps a "Prepare for the Challenge" warning prompt that can be toggled on, that says "Boss XYZ is especially difficult, be ready to block attack A, dodge attack B, interrupt attack C" and so on, upon entering a boss area, prior to engaging in combat, so for overland players they can more easily adapt to the challenge presented, and better understand the death recaps and improve as players, while not trivializing content for veteran players that are thrilled to have more engaging content).

Lugaldu · June 2023

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

I'm sorry to say that, but that's quite an arrogant statement. Adjusting the difficulty to the skill of the individual player is a lot fairer than saying it's their own fault if they fail the boss because they're too stupid to learn its mechanics. There are also enough older players in ESO who may not have as quick reactions anymore, but would still like to have a certain achievement or a certain item that the boss drops.

Elsonso · June 2023

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

pklemming · June 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

Nerfing content based on people not learning mechanics is not a good precedent to set in a game. It dumbs the game down to the point I could probably teach one of my cats to play it.

Whether they repeat it, or not, should not be the issue here. The fact people are calling for nerf because it is too difficult, due to the fact they won't learn mechanics, is the issue. Don't call for things to be nerfed because of a lack of observational skills and lateral thinking.

It is not as though they are even difficult mechanics. One of which is literally, stand on a circle.....

Jammy420 · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I just hope they look at the data and see how few players are running these World Bosses and do something to make them viable. The reason I am hearing time and again as to why others players aren't wanting to join is the difficulty and the length of the encounters.

Data will show that people want harder overland, and that they have had a drop off of people doing those quests, because they find everything forgettable with how easy it has been.

TweFoju wrote: »

today i randomly travel to Necrom ( since i am still doing older zone quest before i want to move on to Necrom )

But today i did out of the curiousity, and i stumble upon 2 WB along the way and i decided to gave it a try, and i am not sure why people here are saying that there aren't enough players to kill the WB?

Because when i join in, there were at least a dozen players engaged in the WB ( could be more ) but basically i got the kill as well and that's about it, i barely do anything, but it was complete for me. so i don't think it's that hard, unless you do it as a challenge for yourself and tried to solo it ( which i feel it's impossible )

This is my experience on PC EU too, all throughout the ENTIRE day there are swarms of people on the world bosses, hell there are so many people doing it, you might not even get a drop because of the amount of people doing it!

Sylosi wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Just did a Necrom WB (Runemaster Xiomara) with about 10 people, it died in roughly 15 seconds, it's ridiculously easy.

Anything is "ridiculously easy" with 10 people.

Quite, which is the problem, this is an MMORPG not a single player game. That a "world boss" is just 15 seconds of faceroll for just 10 people in an MMO is absolutely laughable.

Couldnt agree more. This is why overland and quests are dying.

Jaustink wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

w

Jaustink wrote: »

You're fine with your build but that doesn't mean that content should come down to meet your build.

Nor does it mean it should go up to meet anyone else's.

WBs have a set difficulty - this statement doesn't even make sense. If your build comes up short, improve it. These WBs are a LONG SHOT away from being "end-game" activity

Practice makes perfect is apparently a bad thing now adays

Kendaric · June 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Data will show that people want harder overland, and that they have had a drop off of people doing those quests, because they find everything forgettable with how easy it has been.

Don't make baseless assumptions. There's absolutely no way to say currently whether the majority of people wants that or not.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Practice makes perfect is apparently a bad thing now adays

Ever thought about people who can't get better for whatever reasons, e.g. disabilities, age, etc? Those people play as well.

Heartrage · June 2023

The WB are fine. Not everything should be easy to solo or soloable and you can bring more than a full trial group to obliterate any WB. Can we stop trying to make everything super easy no matter how we play?

Wolfkeks · June 2023

I can't talk for PC NA but for EU there are still enough people milling around to kill WBs. Logged in this morning and found some peeps to kill the Seeker and the Nightmare before Server Maintance and it was okay.

Jammy420 · June 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Data will show that people want harder overland, and that they have had a drop off of people doing those quests, because they find everything forgettable with how easy it has been.

Don't make baseless assumptions. There's absolutely no way to say currently whether the majority of people wants that or not.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Practice makes perfect is apparently a bad thing now adays

Ever thought about people who can't get better for whatever reasons, e.g. disabilities, age, etc? Those people play as well.

Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy. And if people have no arms can win a street fighter tournament, everyone can practice and use the options available to them to improve. There are modifiable controllers and keyboards, there are classes that are slower than others, there are plenty of accessibility sets in the game, and builds people who have those types of problems can use to do this content. There are even builds for standing still in the new content, and there are sets that essentially do the damage for you. The possibilities are there in this game, and if people have issues like you described, they can use those possibilities.

My wife started playing the game a year ago, but got really burnt out because she said nothing was a challenge what so ever, so even new players are really not happy with how simple overland is. When she saw the new content and how things actually took some effort, she was turned on to the game again.

Wolfkeks wrote: »

I can't talk for PC NA but for EU there are still enough people milling around to kill WBs. Logged in this morning and found some peeps to kill the Seeker and the Nightmare before Server Maintance and it was okay.

Played some bosses yesterday and there were two dozen people at each every time they spawned for hours, so I think people are fine with the difficulty.

Braffin · June 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy. And if people have no arms can win a street fighter tournament, everyone can practice and use the options available to them to improve.

My wife started playing the game a year ago, but got really burnt out because she said nothing was a challenge what so ever, so even new players are really not happy with how simple overland is. When she saw the new content and how things actually took some effort, she was turned on to the game again.

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

Snamyap · June 2023

Approach World Boss fights like you're alone. Just because there are another dozen people present does not mean someone is watching your back. Consider yourself lucky if someone is tanking/taunting but be prepared to take some hits and heal yourself. 16k health in light armor is not gonna cut it.

Khrogo · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

I still have PTSD from Craglorn. The wasps were nightmare fuel, equivalent to a boss fight. I just ran from the Welwas and I would panic if I saw Scaled Court trash mobs. Lol.

However, I have a problem with your post. The fact that you can remember Craglorn in its original incarnation means you have been playing the game for close to a decade. If, at this point, you need four players to complete a world boss, you are not an average player. I consider myself an average player, and I am not unduly bothered by Necrom world bosses.

The constant call for dumbed-down content and participation trophies is not helpful. World bosses are not delve bosses. It is intended that they be tackled with a group of players. This is an MMO, after all. I say this with confidence: ESO has never been accessible than it is today. Challenge, where it can be found, should not be removed. It should act as a spur for players to experiment with builds. ZOS has bent over backwards to accommodate this. The overhaul of the champion point system, the collections system, the Oakensoul Ring and many other changes to the game have raised the floor. In my mind, they are all great additions.

In short, not everything should be easy. Over the years, getting my ass handed to me has made me reconsider my build or my approach to a particular enemy or activity. For that, I am thankful. I can handle myself now. The expectation that the hardest overland content should be soloable disregards the fact that ESO is a multiplayer game.

Jammy420 · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Every poll on here about overland had an overwhelming majority say the game is way too easy. And if people have no arms can win a street fighter tournament, everyone can practice and use the options available to them to improve.

My wife started playing the game a year ago, but got really burnt out because she said nothing was a challenge what so ever, so even new players are really not happy with how simple overland is. When she saw the new content and how things actually took some effort, she was turned on to the game again.

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

Exactly. The trope of " mostly casual players who want to relax play this game " doesnt hold water when every poll says people want a bit more difficulty, and when they have been making easy content for half a decade now and player numbers consistantly drop. Necrom is the first DLC since elyweyr that got me interested in the game again.

Love the new difficulty
Love the new class
Love the new direction with the expansions

It has essentially rekindled my love for the game. I have the same childish excitement I had when the game was first announced again.

A stamina build with all class skills? Yes please!

Elsonso · June 2023

pklemming wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

Nerfing content based on people not learning mechanics is not a good precedent to set in a game. It dumbs the game down to the point I could probably teach one of my cats to play it.

Whether they repeat it, or not, should not be the issue here. The fact people are calling for nerf because it is too difficult, due to the fact they won't learn mechanics, is the issue. Don't call for things to be nerfed because of a lack of observational skills and lateral thinking.

It is not as though they are even difficult mechanics. One of which is literally, stand on a circle.....

If people are not repeating content, I do think that is an issue. Is it in the best interests of the game to leave it essentially abandoned for stretches of time? Is this just time spent by the development team that is largely wasted effort?

I am sure that ZOS keeps statistics about how long world bosses stand around before getting taken down, how long dolmens sit idle before someone comes along, and all that. Would be cool, and probably very disappointing, to see those numbers.

Nerfing content is easy for them. Drop the numbers and the engagement rates will go up as the difficulty matches what a larger number of players are looking for.

Adding incentive to learn mechanics is something that seems reserved for dungeons and trials, not world bosses. Certainly, they could do that. It is much more work, and impacts a larger part of the game than just world bosses.

Easy mode for ZOS is to just nerf and move on.

As for "stand on a circle"... in my experience, it is hard to get players to NOT stand in a circle. Telling them to stand in a circle seems like it should be default mode for many players.

Kendaric · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

We'll see, won't we?

If ESO becomes too difficult for me in activities I enjoy like questing/story, I'll simply leave the game. Simple as that.

Braffin · June 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

We'll see, won't we?

If ESO becomes too difficult for me in activities I enjoy like questing/story, I'll simply leave the game. Simple as that.

Yes, we will see indeed

And if you're leaving the game because you aren't satisfied anymore with the product, that's your personal decision, which has to be respected. Lots of people left the game after U35 for the very same reasons.

Some leave, some return, some start the game for the first time. That's quite normal for a mmo.

Jammy420 · June 2023

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

We'll see, won't we?

If ESO becomes too difficult for me in activities I enjoy like questing/story, I'll simply leave the game. Simple as that.

If zos keeps the game at increased difficulty, my wife and I are more likely to pay and play more, some with most mmo players.

Look, this game is an MMO, and it should be balanced as that. They can see that numbers have consistantly gone down, and they can see that the majority of people think its too easy. The venn diagram of people leaving and the game being too easy is clear.

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

Nerfing content based on people not learning mechanics is not a good precedent to set in a game. It dumbs the game down to the point I could probably teach one of my cats to play it.

Whether they repeat it, or not, should not be the issue here. The fact people are calling for nerf because it is too difficult, due to the fact they won't learn mechanics, is the issue. Don't call for things to be nerfed because of a lack of observational skills and lateral thinking.

It is not as though they are even difficult mechanics. One of which is literally, stand on a circle.....

If people are not repeating content, I do think that is an issue. Is it in the best interests of the game to leave it essentially abandoned for stretches of time? Is this just time spent by the development team that is largely wasted effort?

I am sure that ZOS keeps statistics about how long world bosses stand around before getting taken down, how long dolmens sit idle before someone comes along, and all that. Would be cool, and probably very disappointing, to see those numbers.

Nerfing content is easy for them. Drop the numbers and the engagement rates will go up as the difficulty matches what a larger number of players are looking for.

Adding incentive to learn mechanics is something that seems reserved for dungeons and trials, not world bosses. Certainly, they could do that. It is much more work, and impacts a larger part of the game than just world bosses.

Easy mode for ZOS is to just nerf and move on.

As for "stand on a circle"... in my experience, it is hard to get players to NOT stand in a circle. Telling them to stand in a circle seems like it should be default mode for many players.

Lots of people have stopped doing world bosses for 2 reasons.

Too easy
Horrible Rewards

Make them more difficult like these, and increase quality of rewards, and players like the ones who say the game is too easy, will be more inclined to do that content.

Elsonso · June 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

We'll see, won't we?

If ESO becomes too difficult for me in activities I enjoy like questing/story, I'll simply leave the game. Simple as that.

If zos keeps the game at increased difficulty, my wife and I are more likely to pay and play more, some with most mmo players.

Look, this game is an MMO, and it should be balanced as that. They can see that numbers have consistantly gone down, and they can see that the majority of people think its too easy. The venn diagram of people leaving and the game being too easy is clear.

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

Nerfing content based on people not learning mechanics is not a good precedent to set in a game. It dumbs the game down to the point I could probably teach one of my cats to play it.

Whether they repeat it, or not, should not be the issue here. The fact people are calling for nerf because it is too difficult, due to the fact they won't learn mechanics, is the issue. Don't call for things to be nerfed because of a lack of observational skills and lateral thinking.

It is not as though they are even difficult mechanics. One of which is literally, stand on a circle.....

If people are not repeating content, I do think that is an issue. Is it in the best interests of the game to leave it essentially abandoned for stretches of time? Is this just time spent by the development team that is largely wasted effort?

I am sure that ZOS keeps statistics about how long world bosses stand around before getting taken down, how long dolmens sit idle before someone comes along, and all that. Would be cool, and probably very disappointing, to see those numbers.

Nerfing content is easy for them. Drop the numbers and the engagement rates will go up as the difficulty matches what a larger number of players are looking for.

Adding incentive to learn mechanics is something that seems reserved for dungeons and trials, not world bosses. Certainly, they could do that. It is much more work, and impacts a larger part of the game than just world bosses.

Easy mode for ZOS is to just nerf and move on.

As for "stand on a circle"... in my experience, it is hard to get players to NOT stand in a circle. Telling them to stand in a circle seems like it should be default mode for many players.

Lots of people have stopped doing world bosses for 2 reasons.

Too easy
Horrible Rewards

Make them more difficult like these, and increase quality of rewards, and players like the ones who say the game is too easy, will be more inclined to do that content.

I am one of those who think that "I want easy" so outnumbers "I want hard" that if everyone who wanted it easy left the game, this place would be shuttered before the end of the year.

Of course, ZOS is the only one who really knows, and that is not something they are willing to share, I am sure.

I will agree that rewards [snip]. ZOS is very stingy in this respect. We risk our lives daily, figuratively speaking, for a few gold coins and some crusty armor we don't care about.

Braffin · June 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

They simply ignore this facts and try to frame it according to their personal liking, while pretending to lean on data which they refuse to publish.

Some people are apparently not interested in a positive solution for anyone except themselves.

Luckily zos is starting to listen to the real playerbase and is acting accordingly. We already see first steps in the right direction with Necrom and I'm quite sure more will follow.

We'll see, won't we?

If ESO becomes too difficult for me in activities I enjoy like questing/story, I'll simply leave the game. Simple as that.

If zos keeps the game at increased difficulty, my wife and I are more likely to pay and play more, some with most mmo players.

Look, this game is an MMO, and it should be balanced as that. They can see that numbers have consistantly gone down, and they can see that the majority of people think its too easy. The venn diagram of people leaving and the game being too easy is clear.

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

pklemming wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Zos should implement a difficulty bar for the non dungeon/trial content. If you set it on difficult all will hit more and have more hp but your drop rare chance will be better.
If you set it on easy your life bar will increase and you will take less damage.

Problem solved.

Not really, people are dying to stupidity. You don't reward that. These bosses have simple mechanics. Learn the mechanics.

Is it worth learning the mechanics, though? Is this content that people are going to really repeat, or is it content that they just need to overcome a handful of times, or fewer, and then they never have to think about it again?

Nerfing content based on people not learning mechanics is not a good precedent to set in a game. It dumbs the game down to the point I could probably teach one of my cats to play it.

Whether they repeat it, or not, should not be the issue here. The fact people are calling for nerf because it is too difficult, due to the fact they won't learn mechanics, is the issue. Don't call for things to be nerfed because of a lack of observational skills and lateral thinking.

It is not as though they are even difficult mechanics. One of which is literally, stand on a circle.....

If people are not repeating content, I do think that is an issue. Is it in the best interests of the game to leave it essentially abandoned for stretches of time? Is this just time spent by the development team that is largely wasted effort?

I am sure that ZOS keeps statistics about how long world bosses stand around before getting taken down, how long dolmens sit idle before someone comes along, and all that. Would be cool, and probably very disappointing, to see those numbers.

Nerfing content is easy for them. Drop the numbers and the engagement rates will go up as the difficulty matches what a larger number of players are looking for.

Adding incentive to learn mechanics is something that seems reserved for dungeons and trials, not world bosses. Certainly, they could do that. It is much more work, and impacts a larger part of the game than just world bosses.

Easy mode for ZOS is to just nerf and move on.

As for "stand on a circle"... in my experience, it is hard to get players to NOT stand in a circle. Telling them to stand in a circle seems like it should be default mode for many players.

Lots of people have stopped doing world bosses for 2 reasons.

Too easy
Horrible Rewards

Make them more difficult like these, and increase quality of rewards, and players like the ones who say the game is too easy, will be more inclined to do that content.

I am one of those who think that "I want easy" so outnumbers "I want hard" that if everyone who wanted it easy left the game, this place would be shuttered before the end of the year.

Of course, ZOS is the only one who really knows, and that is not something they are willing to share, I am sure.

I will agree that rewards [snip]. ZOS is very stingy in this respect. We risk our lives daily, figuratively speaking, for a few gold coins and some crusty armor we don't care about.

The problem I see with the dichotomy easy/hard is the lack of underlying definition of this terms.

What's easy content? When does content get hard?

This questions can only be answered out of personal experience and therefore the validity of the resulting answers are limited to a subjective opinion. It's simply not possible to deduce a general truth out of this data.

What's possible is to collect as many personal opinions about this topic as possible and draw a conclusion out of this data.

I'm sure zos is already doing this, and we got increased difficulty with Necrom as well as the promise of an "endless dungeon" in Q4 to adress this topic. That's a clear indicator, that a significant amount of the playerbase isn't happy with actual difficulty and demanding more engaging encounters.

This matches also my observations in this forums, as every poll results in a majority voting for more (optional) difficulty, as well as the amount of posters which are fine with higher difficulty is exeedingly higher than posters which are calling for content nerfs.

Marcus684 · June 2023

I think people have just gotten too used to base game WBs that can be easily soloed. I'm glad ZOS has upped the difficulty on new DLC WBs to compensate for power creep.

I think the bigger issue is the low population in Necrom overall. I can't remember for sure how populated High Isle was the first week after release but it sure seems lower in Necrom. I seem to recall masses of players waiting at each WB and lots of tells in zone chat looking for groups and quest shares, and I'm seeing none of that in Necrom. Hopefully, ZOS' changes to crux will solve the motion sickness issues most people are experiencing and populations will pickup.

Stamicka · June 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

The data will speak for itself. These World Bosses are not being encountered nearly as often as they have been in other new chapters. There must be a reason for this.

You're drawing your own conclusion when there can be many other explanations. Maybe you're right and World Bosses really aren't being encountered nearly as often.

This could be because:
- There are many instances of Necrom and players are spread out between instances, giving the illusion of a lack of activity
- Less people were interested in the zone or the chapter than previous chapters

There are probably other possible reasons too. Maybe these bosses are too difficult for YOU. Don't try to speak for others and say it's too difficult for them too lol.