Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult

BasP

ADarklore wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

You can ask people who are capable of helping you with it but stop ruining it for people who like a challenge.

Again, I ask ZOS... make this type of content SCALE to the players. WHY WHY WHY do you keep refusing to do this?!? It would be a win-win, people that show up in a group would face a harder challenge, those who show up solo would have it easier.

It wouldn't necessarily be a win-win for solo players that like slightly challening World Bosses (and World Events) though. But I suppose something like a Hard Mode scroll/toggle in front of every WB could work.

Braffin

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

And we want it to be as hard like that and even harder. We don't want easy mode for the general player base. If you can't do it as four where others can do it as two or even solo that's not on the difficulty of the boss.

But it is.

This is reminding me of when Craglorn launched before One Tamriel. Everything there was this difficult. There was nothing for the average normal player and we were losing players in mass.

There are way more average players than meta and we deserve content at a level we can enjoy too.

Regarding craglorn: The problem back then wasn't the average difficulty (most of players I knew were fine with it), but the forced grouping introduced with this zone, especially connected with the need to be in the same phase as every other group member to continue the quests.

Regarding average player: Who is setting this "average"? Can you provide any data? Maybe is the inability to defeat a necrom WB in a group of 4 not average anymore, but below that?

Maybe that is why we need a hard mode for those that want it. The game should be for everyone, not just for the average, casual or meta players. The game is supposed to be all inclusive.

Yes, that's exactly the solution for all of us. Who on this forums is opposing this and what arguments are brought up to do so can be found in this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread/p171

There is an interesting intersection of people which are arguing for further nerfs constantly (like in this thread) and people trying to prevent the implementation of an optional (!) veteran overland. [snip]

They aren't the majority tho. They may be loud, they are toxic without any doubt and poison the game's and this forums atmosphere, but they are indeed just a few:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/636254/are-the-worldbosses-published-with-necrom-too-hard-for-the-average-player-and-need-to-be-nerfed#latest

In my personal opinion it's time for the community to get rid of this toxic behaviour and to stand up for a satisfying gaming experience for a broader audience.

[edited for baiitng]

Sylosi

They are too easy, by the standards of most MMOs I've played they wouldn't even be regarded as world bosses.Which is why world bosses in this game end up as dead content, where as in other games you have people organising world boss runs with 50+ people (imagine actual MMO gameplay in an MMO, whatever next!).

JanTanhide

I don't find the world bosses too difficult. I've been leveling my Mag Arcanist and hitting every world boss I can. I've been able to solo a few until others arrive without dying. So I'm not sure what is so difficult about these world bosses compared to others.

If it's too hard I highly suggest looking at your build and adjusting it for more damage and survivability. Lot of great gear sets to enhance characters for dps and survivability.

The game is already way too easy in most regards because of people always wanting easy mode and asking ZOS to nerf everything. Just about everything in the game has been nerfed into the ground because of this.

So no, I'm with the majority posting here. Leave the world bosses alone.

Elsonso

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrom has Arcanist as its main draw. A new class as a system usually draws far more players out than not. And yet we see a mere 3-4% increase?

I mean, you just proved my point that something is indeed very wrong here. Player numbers should be higher than this during the launch of a new DLC, and they aren't. Could aesthetics be a problem? Sure. I'll grant you that. But given the praise the chapter has been given before launch, vs the rather negative reception of high isle, its strange.

For longer term issues, I would simply inject "Update 35" and leave it at that. I think that update did a ton of damage to the game.

JanTanhide

BaggyGreen wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The data will speak for itself. These World Bosses are not being encountered nearly as often as they have been in other new chapters. There must be a reason for this.

Like only a small percentage of the overall player base owning the chapter?

I don't see that being considered, yet it's true in my anecdotal experience.

Yep. I myself waited until after release to get it. I know quite a few that have as yet to purchase it. They are waiting for it to go on sale in the next few months.

JanTanhide

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Necrom world bosses are being slain without mercy even as I write this. I’ve two-manned a couple of these with just rando players and I’m no elite player. Again, as I’ve said in another topic, I don’t understand why people want everything to be easy.

Not everyone is able to two man these and we have even struggled in groups of four. And finding a group of 4 has been next to impossible in the first place.

It's not that we want everything to be easy. It's that we want things to be doable by the general player base. These are not.

They are. Every vote on overland showed the majority wanted it a bit more difficult. Do not speak for everyone when you are not in the majority.

SilverBride wrote: »

I am relating my experience, which is that it's been very difficult to get a group of 4 for these World Bosses, and when asking for help in zone chat, players have replied that they gave up on doing them because of the difficulty.

Been playing since launch and have spent over a week in Apocrypha, which is my favorite zone now, and not once have I seen that. People have been complaining that they die too fast though.

Carcamongus wrote: »

My experience with Necrom is that we're almost at the 3rd week and not that many people ask for help with their WB dailies. Furthermore, on a few occasions I arrived at a boss to find no one there and, more often than not, small groups of people, about 4-5, assembled for the fight. Yes, that meant the WB could be killed, but it's worrying to see so few people doing them on a new chapter with a new motif dropping. My concern, and OP is right on that account, is eventually the zone won't have nearly as many players available for these dailies and several of the bosses are indeed quite hard to kill with just 2 people.

People are not playing the chapter because they are turned off by how easy and forgettable previous dlcs, bosses, and world bosses were. A lot are waiting for a sale. If they make it easier, people will stop playing DLCs all together. They have been making simple overland stuff for several expansions now, and most people are just tired of falling asleep and not having any memorable experiences. Necrom difficulty was the first time where bosses felt memorable in a long time.

100% agree with you.

Four_Fingers

I would rather they make a few world boss more difficult than have them increase the overland difficulty giving those that want more of a challenge something.

Kendaric

Braffin wrote: »

There is an interesting intersection of people which are arguing for further nerfs constantly (like in this thread) and people trying to prevent the implementation of an optional (!) veteran overland. [snip]

They aren't the majority tho. They may be loud, they are toxic without any doubt and poison the game's and this forums atmosphere, but they are indeed just a few:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/636254/are-the-worldbosses-published-with-necrom-too-hard-for-the-average-player-and-need-to-be-nerfed#latest

In my personal opinion it's time for the community to get rid of this toxic behaviour and to stand up for a satisfying gaming experience for a broader audience.

ZOS has been very clear about not wanting to work on a veteran overland. You may not like that, but it's the way it is.

Also, forum polls aren't exactly representative of the opinions of the general playerbase and should always be taken with a grain of salt. Only a minority of players actually uses the forum frequently or at all. To get a half decent representation you'd have to do the same on multiple sites such as reddit as well.

[edited to remove quote]

Braffin

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

There is an interesting intersection of people which are arguing for further nerfs constantly (like in this thread) and people trying to prevent the implementation of an optional (!) veteran overland. [snip]

If a lot of them quit, will zos finally stop wasting money on producing two dungeon dlcs a year? Seems like a win to me.

They aren't the majority tho. They may be loud, they are toxic without any doubt and poison the game's and this forums atmosphere, but they are indeed just a few:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/636254/are-the-worldbosses-published-with-necrom-too-hard-for-the-average-player-and-need-to-be-nerfed#latest

In my personal opinion it's time for the community to get rid of this toxic behaviour and to stand up for a satisfying gaming experience for a broader audience.

ZOS has been very clear about not wanting to work on a veteran overland. You may not like that, but it's the way it is.[/quote]

I'll limit myself to two hints regarding this statement:
1) There was a time, when zos had been very clear there wouldn't be another class in eso. Meanwhile arcanist arrived. Indeed zos is changing their opinion on things quite often.
2) I'm not the one demanding changes to existing content in this thread. Zos decided to publish WBs a little more difficult and a majority of frequent forum users appreciate that.

Kendaric wrote: »

Also, forum polls aren't exactly representative of the opinions of the general playerbase and should always be taken with a grain of salt. Only a minority of players actually uses the forum frequently or at all. To get a half decent representation you'd have to do the same on multiple sites such as reddit as well.

Sure, I know that. Nonetheless a forum poll is indeed more meaningful than the claim to speak for the majority of the playerbase exclusively out of personal opinions how things should be. That's exactly what others around here are doing.

[edited to remove quote]

CompM4s

We need more world bosses that are of similar difficulty to dragons.

BlueRaven

CompM4s wrote: »

We need more world bosses that are of similar difficulty to dragons.

Dragons are closer inclined to world events than world bosses. (Remember elsweyr had wbs too.)

And there was fewer dragons than wbs, (in northern elsweyr at least).

And the map told you if people were fighting them and where.

And dragons actually dropped items people still want.

What it comes down to is not really the difficulty alone, it’s difficulty vs participation.

Necrom wbs are difficult due to lack of participation.

TairenSoul

Necrom World Bosses are way too difficult. This early in the chapter there should be a lot of players doing these, but we literally have to beg people to join a group for them, even when there is a daily quest to share. Please tone these down so the general player base can find groups and enjoy them. We already have Bastion Nymics for a bigger challenge, please leave something for the rest of us.

I agree! I play for hours, everyday, I went by each of the bosses yesterday, quite a few times, and no one was at any of them. Maybe it depends which game instance you're in. This happens sometimes in Craglorn. When grinding, there will be no one in my instance, while my sister will complain that her game is full of people in the exact same area at the same time.

I don't mind hard bosses with my level 2552 champs, but as a new under level 50 Arcanist, yeah, they are really hard. At that level you most definitely cannot solo them. I feel your pain, SilverBride!

SilverBride

I just hope they look at the data and see how few players are running these World Bosses and do something to make them viable. The reason I am hearing time and again as to why others players aren't wanting to join is the difficulty and the length of the encounters.

Haenk

I think as of today, the population is way higher than in the days after release.
That might cool down again, I guess - so the future low population might make the WB a challenge again. But the those should fight like a boss, so I guess I'm OK with not being able to solo them.

SeaGtGruff

AlwaysDancing wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

When players are having trouble finding groups for these World Bosses already, this early in the chapter, something is wrong.

I think what is wrong is the lackluster rewards from doing WB in this area, not the difficulty. There is no incentive to go out of the way to kill these bosses. A trash set piece, a crafting material, and a dozen gold pieces? The antiquity lead is maybe worth it to some people, but once you get it - nothing.

For me, if I enjoy fighting a challenging boss, the struggle is a large part of the reward. Of course, not all challenging bosses are equally fun to fight, but even the ones with annoying or frustrating mechanics and adds still feel good to beat.

Once I know I can solo a boss, I'll run to help kill it if I see someone asking for help with it in zone chat, unless I'm already in the middle of something else. I don't need a share for it, because my reward is the pleasure I get from helping kill the boss.

Kendaric

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

For me, if I enjoy fighting a challenging boss, the struggle is a large part of the reward. Of course, not all challenging bosses are equally fun to fight, but even the ones with annoying or frustrating mechanics and adds still feel good to beat.

Once I know I can solo a boss, I'll run to help kill it if I see someone asking for help with it in zone chat, unless I'm already in the middle of something else. I don't need a share for it, because my reward is the pleasure I get from helping kill the boss.

Unfortunately you're a rare breed... I don't want to count the times I had to give up on Blackwood's or Western Skyrim's world bosses, because I didn't have the corresponding daily and most people refuse to assist when there's no reward.

I suspect that will be a problem in Necrom too, if not now then in a few months.

SilverBride

Kendaric wrote: »

...I don't want to count the times I had to give up on Blackwood's or Western Skyrim's world bosses, because I didn't have the corresponding daily and most people refuse to assist when there's no reward.

I suspect that will be a problem in Necrom too, if not now then in a few months.

It's already a problem, and even with the daily quest players aren't joining. It has been consistently difficult to find groups which is what prompted this discussion.

spartaxoxo

AlwaysDancing wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

When players are having trouble finding groups for these World Bosses already, this early in the chapter, something is wrong.

I think what is wrong is the lackluster rewards from doing WB in this area, not the difficulty. There is no incentive to go out of the way to kill these bosses. A trash set piece, a crafting material, and a dozen gold pieces? The antiquity lead is maybe worth it to some people, but once you get it - nothing.

That is how new world bosses always are and they always have high participation anyway when a chapter first drops. I can't speak to Necrom (on console) but the reports I'm reading of people not being able to find groups for brand new content is concerning. This is the only casual content for the entire year, they axed the Q4 DLC.

TweFoju

today i randomly travel to Necrom ( since i am still doing older zone quest before i want to move on to Necrom )

But today i did out of the curiousity, and i stumble upon 2 WB along the way and i decided to gave it a try, and i am not sure why people here are saying that there aren't enough players to kill the WB?

Because when i join in, there were at least a dozen players engaged in the WB ( could be more ) but basically i got the kill as well and that's about it, i barely do anything, but it was complete for me. so i don't think it's that hard, unless you do it as a challenge for yourself and tried to solo it ( which i feel it's impossible )

SilverBride

TweFoju wrote: »

...there were at least a dozen players engaged in the WB ( could be more )...

What server was this on? Because that is the exact opposite of what I've been seeing on PCNA.

TairenSoul

I was just trying a WB in Necrom. There were three of us and we all died quickly and about 4 times. We all just left.

Sylosi

Just did a Necrom WB (Runemaster Xiomara) with about 10 people, it died in roughly 15 seconds, it's ridiculously easy. "World bosses" in this game are a joke, they need to be more difficult not less.

Lugaldu

I don't understand why the WBs don't adjust the difficulty based on the number of players which are around. It also works for the geysers on Summerset, right? Why not for all World Bosses and World Events....

valenwood_vegan

My experience on PC/NA has also been that the new bosses are more difficult (this alone isn't necessarily a bad thing), and that there are people who want to do them who are experiencing difficulties and/or long wait-times finding other players to assist.

And before someone decides to beat their chest and tell me to L2P, I've soloed all of them. They are in fact too easy *for me*. But at the same time, some of them are a little tedious and the rewards... suck. I'm not that interested in repeating them.

But I think this speaks to an overall problem that ZoS may need to address... that is, what seems to be a growing gap between different groups of players. It's almost like some players are playing an entirely different game from others - and IMO they need to look at implementing something like normal vs. vet difficulty on a wider scale. And devote more resources to actually teaching people how to improve, in ways that step up the difficulty in small doses and teach mechanics... instead of letting them run up against sudden jumps in difficulty (for which the game doesn't prepare them). That's perhaps beyond the scope of this topic.

It's also no surprise that this keeps coming up... as ZoS markets the game as "play as you want" and heavily promotes the new chapter content as something a new player can buy and jump right into... but then they keep upping the difficulty of newer content to appease more experienced players. The end result of this cycle is perhaps... not satisfying to EITHER group.

It's also worth looking at reasons why people are having trouble finding groups for the new bosses... perhaps it's a reward vs effort issue, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of gain from repeating the bosses after getting the achievements. Maybe the tools for finding other players are inadequate. Maybe the chapter formula of 6 delves, 6 wb's, dailies that drop a motif and not much else... is just getting stale. I don't know, but it points to a potential problem.

My real point is that I think it's perfectly valid for people to leave feedback on how the new content is *for them*, as I think we'd all like to see ESO continue to grow and be successful. It's just as important for ZoS to hear that x is too hard for some players, as it is for them to hear that it's too easy. They have to understand that this is a recurring problem and find a way to figure this out. Some are here for a constant challenge, and some are more here for a relaxing elder scrolls experience... and there *are* ways to have the game cater to both...

Lugaldu

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Some are here for a constant challenge, and some are more here for a relaxing elder scrolls experience... and there *are* ways to have the game cater to both...

What bothers me personally is that on the one hand they claim that you can play the way you want and that the game should be there for everyone, but then certain content is only linked to a single way of playing. Concrete example: I hate it when certain leads are tied to group content and there is no chance (or almost no chance) that this group content can also be completed solo - like in the case of the Shipbuilder's Woodworking Station and Wayrest Sewers II.

Braffin

Lugaldu wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Some are here for a constant challenge, and some are more here for a relaxing elder scrolls experience... and there *are* ways to have the game cater to both...

What bothers me personally is that on the one hand they claim that you can play the way you want and that the game should be there for everyone, but then certain content is only linked to a single way of playing. Concrete example: I hate it when certain leads are tied to group content and there is no chance (or almost no chance) that this group content can also be completed solo - like in the case of the Shipbuilder's Woodworking Station and Wayrest Sewers II.

I agree on this. A solution for all players with their different playstyles should of course include solo instances for all dungeons without tuning down the rewards. Nobody gets harmed by doing so.

Grizzbeorn

Sylosi wrote: »

Just did a Necrom WB (Runemaster Xiomara) with about 10 people, it died in roughly 15 seconds, it's ridiculously easy.

Anything is "ridiculously easy" with 10 people.

BasP

SilverBride wrote: »

TweFoju wrote: »

...there were at least a dozen players engaged in the WB ( could be more )...

What server was this on? Because that is the exact opposite of what I've been seeing on PCNA.

I play on PCEU and spent most of my in-game time in Apocrypha today. There seems to be decent number of players doing the World Bosses throughout the day. I did the Prime Cataloger WB three times (not consecutively) and each time there were around 5 to 10 other players too, for example.

Sylosi

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Just did a Necrom WB (Runemaster Xiomara) with about 10 people, it died in roughly 15 seconds, it's ridiculously easy.

Anything is "ridiculously easy" with 10 people.

Quite, which is the problem, this is an MMORPG not a single player game. That a "world boss" is just 15 seconds of faceroll for just 10 people in an MMO is absolutely laughable.