Who do you think you are?

Sihnfahl · May 2014

Because it has to be said...

SeñorCinco · May 2014

I am all for trying to help someone to get better but when you start telling them they need to change weapons then its time to move on. I was part of a role playing group and my character was a 2H Heavy that assumed a tank type of role.

I started catching flack for being a 2H and it was aggressively suggested that I start using a 1H Shield just for an aggro. I simply removed myself and moved on.

Korozenn · May 2014

SeñorCinco wrote: »

I am all for trying to help someone to get better but when you start telling them they need to change weapons then its time to move on. I was part of a role playing group and my character was a 2H Heavy that assumed a tank type of role.

I started catching flack for being a 2H and it was aggressively suggested that I start using a 1H Shield just for an aggro. I simply removed myself and moved on.

Agreed.

ZeniMax should also look into balancing melee vs. ranged weaponry in the game. Melee weapons should be getting in a higher amount of DPS than ranged weapons from afar, and the difference between 2H and 1H/Shield should be made more noticeable in terms of multi-target/cleaving damage vs. single-target/piercing damage, respectively. Dual Wielding is also seeing some sort of cap in the amount of damage output both of your weapons return to you when equipped at the same time. Instead of the damage stacking on top of each other, they receive some sort of negative percentage-based drop to prevent an over-powered build, but it's not enough of an increase in its current form compared to 1H/Shield to make it anywhere near as viable.

Overall, we just need melee weapon stats to be changed and ranged attacks/spells/feats to be nerfed a bit to coincide with those changes. It's far more difficult to have an effective melee build in this game than it is one that relies on ranged weaponry.

Aria · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

Aria wrote: »

Simple solution:
Find other (non elitist) players to group with?

Sad that these so called "elite" players fail to realize even the best geared player can still suck, personally would rather have a badly geared person that knows how to play over some twink that cant any day!

Where have any of us failed to realize or said that. From what i've read and posted myself I got quite the opposite.

But stuff like gearscore, dps meters and whatnot gives you a better overall idea towards a stranger and % wise those able to obtain the best gear are statisticly more likely to be a skilled player because they beat that content where it dropped (or well in ESOs case invested the time and resources to also craft it).

Anyways i belive that from what i read and posted myself was that we DO want to play with skilled players and not someone who isn't. Arguements for gearscore, dps meters etc is just tools to easier identify that and make it faster/easier to spot those players.

I know it's an old rant but maybe actually read what's been posted before making claims that are plain and simply false.

These claims I have made that "some" elite minded players only look at gear score (sorry my fault for not being specific)....is based in fact from my personal experience.

Sorry that you felt singled out somehow and felt the need to target my post, I was making a generalization was not saying all these types of players were elitist just that some players worry to much about gear score!

But thats the nice thing about mmos you can choose to group or not group with whoever you like.

thegamekittenub17_ESO · May 2014

Whenever you have multiple players online in a game there are those that will do this, I pity them, but I can afford too. I always play MMOs with my fiancé so I always can play my way and shrug at these Elite like players. We do group with others because we are asked if they can join our party. We do good and I have a complete hybrid character and play her exactly how I want.

I learned to ignore these people that say you should play this, hit this much, and be this. Or I will simply refuse to join their group and reply with, if you pay my sub then you have the right to tell me how to play.

This type of attitude of telling people what they must play to join their special snowflake group has been in every MMO I've played. But the great thing is, I always found a way not to play with them.

Audigy · May 2014

Noswell wrote: »

crush83 wrote: »

Coming on here and throwing insults at their real life struggles is no better than them insulting you in game for being inept at a video game.

This. If the whole purpose of this thread was a plea for people to be nicer to each other in a game, then letting it devolve into the usual insults about the lives of those who play differently or weren't nice to someone in a game seems counterproductive.

You seem to have a weird interpretation of the term "insult". I yet have to find an insult from a Casual towards an Elitist, while the Elitist´s have thrown tons of insults towards Casuals here.

cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I agree that it is a shame that online gaming today has become a second job for many.

It isn't a job to them. They play hard and extreme and want to be the best. There are many people with many hobbies that are that way, from biking, rock climbing, etc.

They want the most out of their experience and want those who are with them to have the same feeling.

While I don't play their way, I understand it.

And it isn't my place nor anyone else's to make them experience their hobby our way.

While I don't disagree with that in general, why do those Elite players then demand that everyone has that "hobby"?

If I practice for a competition then I don't go on the street and ask the general public to do as I do! Instead I have a club where others are like me and even there we have specific groups that work together as not everyone has the potential for nationals.

At online gaming however, those Elite players demand that everyone plays like they do and to point this out the OP made that thread.

Elite players can be Elite as much they want, but they need to live their dream in a guild and not in the random group system.

BenjaminKacher_ESO · May 2014

OP here are your options:
1) get friends (I'll be your friend)
2) get a guild (a real guild not a trade guild)
3) get good at what you play.

Thalmar · May 2014

The problem is the game being an MMO which has millions of players with different cultures, religions, manners, beliefs, aims and different definition of having fun. As i understand your point, it is really hard for players to find a solution regarding to your point.

People who attends dungeons for fast clear with highest dps builds and on the other hand people who joins the dungeon finders for having fun and seeing the oppurtunities game presents.

In my opinion developers sets the rules for the gamers, kicking option from game since it sometimes become useful for kicking bots or immature players also can cause elitism. Maybe at some point if we give feedback, the developers give an option to dungeon finders such as a) Join as a fast clean and b) Join for fun, take your time...

Reykice · May 2014

The problem is this: bosses have ENRAGE timers, so if you don`t kill them fast enough they kill everyone.

If you are the weak link as in you don`t do DPS then you will slow the group down. So, if they can`t do the dungeon with you, you will be kicked and replaced.

It is nothing against you, the solution would be to balance the game so they all do similar damage then the only thing keeping you from doing that damage would be your skill.

Long story short, if you are slowing the group down you will be kicked no matter how much you pay per month.

I could ask you, who do you think you are to slow down and ruin other people`s fun just because you don`t bother to inform yourself about what works and what doesn`t?

BornDownUnder · May 2014

I just have to add my two coppers worth here...

In response to the OP there are two types of elitists that are around in games:

1- The first being the arrogant prick type that tells you your not good enough, kicks you from the group without reason, tells you you should be using x weapon with y skills with z armour, etc. etc. so on and so forth (could go on for 9 pages worth, which if you haven't noticed is how long this thread is, going back and forth)

2- The second type of elitist is the type that is willing to assist you with advice if YOU want it, tries to help others become the best they can be. Some of these players will even go out of their way to try and help others become the best they can be, regardless of spec.

In MY opinion it does not make a difference at all what armour YOU wear, what skills YOU take as long as it is what YOU want to use.

You will find that not only are players like this in games, you will also find people are like this in the real world. Just learn to see the warning signs, tell them to shove it and move on as they are the ones not worth knowing if they treat you like crap because they have a differing opinion of how YOU should be.

End of my two coppers' worth.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

I kinda gave up on this thread a little and went to bed because most have been said already just one more small thing that caught my eye. It seems to be a somewhat general asumption and argument from the casual side to play how you want and they play for fun.

Just to point out us elitists (labels again) also play for fun and as mentioned on previous page it's not only in mmo games. I for one both in games and irl find enjoyment in bettering myself and strive to get better.

So to make a long story short (too late) I find it a tad wierd that you assume we don't play for fun. Maybe our way of fun is just differnt from yours?

epoling · May 2014

Anytime you tell people that they need to "work" to "earn" stuff in games, you are turning it into a job. Sorry, but those are the two things that define a job. Most people don't find jobs fun. Therefore, it is rare that I would think anybody that is "working" to "earn" things is having fun.

Also, it is really sad that MMO's have gotten to the point that you have to take hours out of your time to research builds, skills, etc. Everything you need to play the game should be easily accessible from within the game. I would guess most people have enough other things to do than researching how to play a game. I would love to see just one MMO give you the tools you need.

KerinKor · May 2014

Hrithmus wrote: »

Please just enjoy the game and have fun....

Ah, but there's the rub: what is 'fun'. For many it's the phat lewt.

As you say, FFXI was riven with min/maxers and theorycrafters, but then so is every other MMO in existence. Go to sites like Reddit and see the min/maxers and theorycrafters in full flight, just like Allakhazam was for FFXI.

At end-game especially efficiency is what matters most to those who are addicted to phat lewt.

For them 'fun' isn't actually fighting the bosses, it's getting their next piece of e-peen-dripping phat lewt. Anything that slows that down, like people with non-BIS gear is to be derided.

DPS meters are a curse, yet sadly ZOS pandered to the min./maxers and made it possible without using a third-party tool with the possibility of getting banned if you abused others by using it.

They're defended on the specious basis that it "lets me see my damage so I can improve". While no doubt a few use a meter for this .. the min/maxers and theorycrafters especially .. they're far, far. FAR more widely used to abuse other players.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

Wanting to be better and earning stuff in order to for example beat harder content is not the definition of work(dictionary ---> way). It's totally fine if you don't want to do it or put the effort into it and so the point of tis thread pops up again as to not expect to be included in raids, harder content etc.

As for taking hours of of your time to research a build i don't know, maybe if you are an extremly slow reader that also mentally handicapped and half blind sure(sorry for the extreme wording). But The tools are there. Personally i can regonise what's good ingame without having to goto a theorycrafting forum later to find out my build is in fact better. Yes i do the math aswell because i enjoy math(yeah wierd huh).

Anyways if you can't do that spending 5 min(tops) on some forum or taking advice from a more intelligent or more exp person then you i wouldn't call that sad but each to his own i guess.

Ohh to touch the first part again to "earn" stuff as you put it is the entire core of playing computer games especially mmo's.

Anyways play as you like and if you are not willing to adapt, take advice or whatever to beat a games harder content it's of course your choice not to be included.

KerinKor · May 2014

Harkrider wrote: »

ESO's API does not allow for data collection regarding most statistics for other players. So damage meters, etc, are not going to appear (rather, reemerge) here unless the API is changed again.

No, so the jerks demand others run one and /say the numbers. Also, there's at least one hack out there that appears to be able to report other players' numbers.

DanteYoda · May 2014

People are so into efficiency these days they've forgotten what fun is..

DanteYoda · May 2014

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Welcome to the new world of MMOs. Brought to you by the edition of add ons like recount and gearscore.

As for ESO if they tell you they can see your dps then report them for exploiting. Since the API is closed they shouldn't be able to run anything like that.

As for their being more "elite" players. I honestly don't find that be true. I have been playing MMOs since 2002. I think there are (on a scale due to the number of people that play now) about the same amount of elite players. The only difference back then they were patient enough to answer questions, or help you become geared enough. The reason for was we were able to police ourselves so much better than now.

Back in EQ if you were a total jerk people you just wouldn't get groups anymore. Now when they put in these stupid group finder tools you can still be the biggest jerk, but there is no drawback cause you will still get groups.

If they figured out someway for us to get back to policing ourselves you would see the behavior drop drastically.

Think its bad now? wait until these same elitists start charging players for run throughs, then you'll see the scamming and fighting, happened in Guildwars 2 will happen here..

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

DanteYoda wrote: »

People are so into efficiency these days they've forgotten what fun is..

Or maybe as mentioned countless times in this thread some people just find enjoyment and fun as you say in being effective and trying to better themself?

It's a strange world that other people can have different views of enjoyment and fun then you huh?

Holy crackers Batman the roughly 6 billion people on this planet are not identical!

Genomic · May 2014

Elite.

Audigy · May 2014

Genomic wrote: »

Elite.

What is the knife for I wonder?

Do you think he is afraid of Penny?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB7KHC23mtY

zamiel · May 2014

I find it hilarious that these kinds of threads emerge in every MMO since UO and are always started by someone on the business end of a kick.

1) Your 14.99 qualifies you to access the server until you do something that's against the TOS - nothing more. Noone guarantees you friends to run group content with. If you are dumb enough to make yourself a persona non grata either by terrible behaviour or catastrophic builds you are out of luck. Just like paying taxes in real life doesn't qualify you to get friends.

2) Elitism is fine up to a point. It defnitely is now. You want the very best to run fresh content to eliminate at least one variable. Those stuck up elitists with their number crunching and theorycrafting are the guys that make optimal strategies to run content. Even with subpar builds. So yeah, you can whine about them, but next time you use a 'tried and working' strategy to run something rest assured that it originated from an 'idiot elitist'.

3) As per above DPS meters and the like are a perfect tool to filter out people who won't pull their weight. It doesn't matter how awesome you feel with your claymore and how it all makes sense in your head, if it does 10% less damage then a bow then you don't do enough damage. Just like you don't go to an opera in shorts I don't really want to see people exploring a new raid with a single dagger because it 'looks cool'.

4) People use the grouping tool how they *** please. It might only be me but I missed the 'you must take the first 3 guys to join no matter what' sticker on it. If I dislike you for whatever reason I will kick you. You can leave and make your own group and can kick me for whatever reason next time, it's your right and I'm cool with it. It's not bullying, it's spending my limited time on the game however I want. Sure, when content gets older this might be the first 11 whatever for a raid. Or I might even want to have newbs to teach them how to run something (or you probably would get angry over that as well, because you have a right to be in my group). Or if I'm after a stressful day and just want to melt faces I will kick noobs without a second thought. Noone in the world forces me to play with someone I don't want to. Because that's the only thing you're entitled to with your 14.99. To NOT play with people you don't want to.

crush83 · May 2014

Someone mentioned that "pro" or "elitist" players shouldn't be pugging. I was "pro" in Counterstrike a decade ago. Yes, I made money playing Counterstrike (not even close to a living's worth). I was considered elite. I played at the top level of competitive play. When my teammates weren't on, or we didn't have our full team on, and I wanted to work on something, I'd join a pug. Sometimes, those pug groups had some really terrible players in them.

Here's the difference. I didn't rage quit, or call them scrubs. Instead, I complimented them on what they were doing right. I offered them advice on how they could improve based on my own experience. I kept my mouth shut of any negative criticism.

I lost a ton of pug matches, but by keeping my composure, I was also able to learn to adapt to adversity. I learned how to handle some very tough 3v1 4v1 and 5v1 situations that carried over into CAL Invite and especially LAN matches.

As I grew older, and my skills and time faded, I saw a few of those puggers ascend to the top level and replace me.

Moral of the story here is that being an elite player doesn't mean you have to be an ass to everyone else. In fact, you should be kind and courteous to everyone. You should try to serve as a mentor to them, but not become angered when they don't understand or accept your advice. It will earn you a lot more respect (fans and followers which means more money and success if you are a pro), and when you do falter (because you will) people will be more willing to forgive you.

Thechemicals · May 2014

Kyotee0071 wrote: »

I'd venture to say it's the younger generation into the "leetism". Most of us adults who have mortgages, bills, and work hard in everyday life jump on these games to have fun, chill, share some laughs, and escape.

That's why I gave up hardcore raiding many moons ago. Though dps meters are great for one to judge their performance and tell if they are actually improving - I feel they were hurtful overall to the MMORGP genre. Same with Gear scores, i levels, and achievements.

I miss the day when folks played to have fun. If it took 20 extra minutes to clear a dungeon no one cared. It was about getting the job done, and escaping stressful everyday life with like minded folks.

If folks are looking for a hardcore PVE game my opinion is they are playing the wrong game. There are other games out there with much deeper PVE mechanics. If this game is going to last it's going to be from it's AVA / PVP in my humble opinion.

Lets all be clear here: This poster quit the game on another thread for trivial reasons and he is back. I wouldnt take anything he says serious, he has personal issues with the game yet cant seem to just leave.

Milanna · May 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

Lets all be clear here: This poster quit the game on another thread for trivial reasons and he is back. I wouldnt take anything he says serious, he has personal issues with the game yet cant seem to just leave.

Obviously this is a common opinion. And by common, I don´t mean that everybody thinks so, rather that it is an opinion ventilated repeatedly in this thread.
And it is being discussed. That is how one makes conversation.
Granted, conversation is usually a tad less confrontational, but that is the price of internet anonymity.

Subjectivity and hidden agendas are common ingredients in threads on these forums if you think about it.

ignoroticb14_ESO · May 2014

crush83 wrote: »

Someone mentioned that "pro" or "elitist" players shouldn't be pugging. I was "pro" in Counterstrike a decade ago. Yes, I made money playing Counterstrike (not even close to a living's worth). I was considered elite. I played at the top level of competitive play. When my teammates weren't on, or we didn't have our full team on, and I wanted to work on something, I'd join a pug. Sometimes, those pug groups had some really terrible players in them.

Here's the difference. I didn't rage quit, or call them scrubs. Instead, I complimented them on what they were doing right. I offered them advice on how they could improve based on my own experience. I kept my mouth shut of any negative criticism.

I lost a ton of pug matches, but by keeping my composure, I was also able to learn to adapt to adversity. I learned how to handle some very tough 3v1 4v1 and 5v1 situations that carried over into CAL Invite and especially LAN matches.

As I grew older, and my skills and time faded, I saw a few of those puggers ascend to the top level and replace me.

Moral of the story here is that being an elite player doesn't mean you have to be an ass to everyone else. In fact, you should be kind and courteous to everyone. You should try to serve as a mentor to them, but not become angered when they don't understand or accept your advice. It will earn you a lot more respect (fans and followers which means more money and success if you are a pro), and when you do falter (because you will) people will be more willing to forgive you.

Great post. The culture of mmos has taken a steep turn in the wrong direction ever since WoW became so popular. People equate being rude=being skilled. Many casual players facilitate this by brown-nosing, which only further inflates egos. Being snarky, smug, and outright abrasive is admired, and being polite or generous is viewed as a sign of weakness.

For this reason I almost passed on playing this game. I've done the hardcore raiding and hardcore pvp thing, and even though you get the gear you want, you have to tolerate the huge egos of raid leaders and guild leaders. You have to tolerate the petty politics and cutthroat nature of mmos, and to me, that ruins any fun the game has to offer.

I guess the best you can do is try to find a way play with people who are more in line with your attitude and avoid the hardcore snobs as much as possible.

stokesc · May 2014

Thorntongue wrote: »

Hrithmus wrote: »

I have seen alot of people getting bullied by the Elite users or users with some type of add-on. Either it being DPS or being told to link gear. Who do you guys think you are? I'm paying $14.99 a month for someone to tell me how i should play and how im maybe to weak?

So, is your $14.99 a month you pay special? You get some perk im not aware about? This is the issue i have with subscription based games. I'm paying (Not mommy or daddy) to play this game online. When i run into other users who think they own this game and can kick people out of groups drives me crazy.

Between my days playing MMO's in 2001 and in 2014 are totally different. You have WAY more Elite players telling other players what they should do or how they should play. I dont spend 20+ hours doing research on toon builds to make sure im doing max damage.

This happen once in FF11. Ninja and paladin had a big battle with tanking. A build came out where PLD would sub NIN. It was PLD/NIN (If you didn't play FF11 you have no clue what im talking about) I didn't want to sub NIN so i said no, did that for years. Got to the point where i wouldn't get party invite if i didnt have NIN sub.

I said to myself, I'm paying for a game that other people are telling me how to play. So i simply just quit. Everyone needs to know this is your money your spending. Play the way you want, THATS the point of ESO. You can be a tank in all light armor if you want with a staff.

Please just enjoy the game and have fun....

That's what happens when you come across these unfortunate little people with no real accomplishment in life. They think that a video game is real life and that's the only think they can brag about. Their parents use the computer as a baby sitter for them, so mom/dad or both can get them out of their hair.

I guess it's an attention thing or lack thereof. Their only accomplishment is that they can get away with this crap in a game where as in real life they would get what they deserve, a swift kick in the ass.

I never group with people I don't know so I've never come across these little people as you have had but you hear about them and read their little zone chat bull.

I have read that people can not see other people's DPS. Is this true? Now someone telling you that you are too weak, I wouldn't take it personally. In all likelihood it is just the opposite in the real world. It's the weaklings in life that hide behind the anonymity of a keyboard. They also like to cheat to get ahead. In my real life experiences I loved catching the cheaters, always the weaklings trying to get away with breaking the law. The punks that you came across, they'll get theirs.

When I speak of weaklings, I think of mental weaklings and to a lesser degree the physical weaklings too.

Arguably the most condiscending post I have ever read! I'm sure your "wife" (Internet ordered, one would assume) must be very proud!?

I've played MMO's before and had to change my build to take part in raids/end-game to enable us to finish quicker... did we achieve server firsts; yes. Do I regret it; no. Does it make me a good player in this game; no. Until all classes and skills have been sorted it's difficult to say what's the best build.

The OP met a load of, arguably, (depending on how they dealt with it) ar5eholes so I can understand his annoyance, however, if people in a group want a "quick run" and don't feel you're up for it that's a separate issue. If it's a Vet dungeon run you can always Google it while you wait for group finder so you know the tactics. You can't blame players alone when the game puts achievements in there for completing a dungeon in a certain time... 20 minutes I believe is Banished Cells one.

Hrithmus · May 2014

Hexi wrote: »

zoetaz1616 wrote: »

I can't believe this comment justified 8 pages.

This topic has justified hundreds of threads across multiple MMOs since... forever. Bad players refuse to accept that no one wants dead weight and these people can find other dead weights to sink together with but they aren't welcome to ruin the fun of people that can actually play instead of wiping on everything 20 times.

Wait, Wait. What is considered as Dead Weight in a video game..? Isn't everything "Balanced" and tailored to the "Play how you want"?. This isn't the local basketball team man. I fail to understand this logic.

Thechemicals · May 2014

This thread is screaming for acceptance in the alpha community.

Sylveria_Relden · May 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

This thread is screaming for acceptance in the alpha community.

I didn't know "alphas" even had a community. You mean, there can be more than one in a situation where they're all trying to best each other?

Last I heard, the common phrase they tout is "2nd Place is first loser" or something to that effect.

Had to edit this to correct the actual phrase, but you get the drift.

cliveklgb14_ESO · May 2014

Audigy wrote: »

While I don't disagree with that in general, why do those Elite players then demand that everyone has that "hobby"?

They don't. If you do play the hobby their way they welcome you, if you don't, they don't demand you do, they just don't game with you. You are free do do whatever you want without them.

At online gaming however, those Elite players demand that everyone plays like they do and to point this out the OP made that thread.

Again no they don't. They didn't demand the OP play that way. They asked, the OP didn't, they chose to not play with him. That is their right.