paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

Again i don't see what this has to do with people being elitist or against it. In UO I still played with what i considered skilled players and had those players on my icq list. I have continued that playstyle ever since but again i don't see what a chat format has to do with any of that or what this thread is about.

Maybe a new thread for that subject if you care or find it is something that needs to be voiced?

Hmmm...maybe you haven't been following the thread, or maybe you are just trying to be difficult...I guess I'll find out. Here's a reiteration.

The more elite players have no trouble finding each other. Most frequent other forums anyways, or carry over from other games. This isn't about them.

The complaint is that casual players are being kicked from groups because they aren't up to par with the occasional elitist random group leader.

The answer is simple. Find other players to play with. Random groups are random. You're going to get some good ones. You're going to get some bad ones. If you always want a good group, then you need to find some good friends to play with, and group with them.

The problem with finding friends is that chat isn't conducive to socializing. It's polluted with all flavors of spam: trade, guild, lfg, and gold selling. On top of that, there are 5-6 independent conversations ongoing at any given moment. All flow within the same context. This makes it extremely hard for people to socialize, and form friendships.

Part of this problem stems from zone-wide chat, as opposed to very localized chat. The other part of the problem stems from the format by which chat is presented. A scrolling chat window means that all chat gets mixed together, based on when the message is received. That can make conversations extremely hard to follow.

I hope you can now see how this correlates to the topic at hand.

It's carebear central up in here. x.x

I love how people keep throwing around "Play how you want" to justify their arguments. Play how you want does not mean other players have to put up with you.

And sure, you can tank in light armor and with a staff. Are you going to pay my repair bills because you can't hold aggro and wiped the group over and over?

Sorry, but here's what comes to mind when I see "elite" player:

I'm for sure a carebear. When someone snags that chest (where I'm right by it, killing the mob guarding it) or whatever, I am much more likely to log off and ponder why it meant so much to that person in the first place than I am to get mad about it. I guess we just differ as to whether or not "carebearism" (is so a word) is a character flaw.

The problem here is that people don't know what it means to be elite. Elite isn't running around with a maxed out gear score, or beating all the game's content before anyone else. That's not elite.

Elite is willing to accept any challenge, and not stopping until you conquer it. Elite can mean taking an unskilled, under-geared group of casual players into a difficult encounter, and coming out the other side.

Elite is putting up with ineptitude by showing grace, meanwhile doing your best to patiently teach your comrades to improve their game.

Instead, we have petulant, arrogant children who believe the exhibition of greatness is achieved through bullying others. They probably believe this because they've been bullied in real life by those society considers to be elite. Now, they see this as their turn to swap roles.

Coming on here and throwing insults at their real life struggles is no better than them insulting you in game for being inept at a video game.

In my experience, judgmental folks are becoming the norm. It used to be when you played a game people were happy to help and play with you, not worrying about how to criticize them. Unfortunately, there are just a lot of people out there who have to tell other people why they have built their character wrong in order to feel good about themselves. I have heard all sorts of excuses but I have noticed the worst offenders often don't really know what they are talking about. (Example: The woman in EQ2 who uses "Inspect" on everybody - told a tank she would change to hers because she had 1000 HP more than him - out of 250,000 HP. She told me I was going to drag a group down because my warlock didn't have a lot of top end equipment yet I managed to top the parse on each fight.) There will always be these jerks and not much to do to avoid them.

Yankee wrote: »

I suggest a solution for you OP.
Don't PUG, join a decent guild.

I'd say it should be the other way. To use the abysmal basketball/football analogy being thrown around, if you want to pretend you're a pro, maybe you shouldn't just go to the park/pug and expect to find serious athletes/players.

Hrithmus wrote: »

So they have that right and i do not? Explain

Where is he saying you can't make choices also?

Do you not understand it goes both ways?

You get to play the game how you want.

They get to play the game how they want.

You don't get to force them to accept you or play your way, nor do they get to force you to do so.

They DO have the choice not to accept you.

Just as you have the choice not to accept them.

YOu DO NOT have the choice to force them to accept you. And vice versa.

There is no obligation for them to accept you or keep you in a group, nor any obligation for you to stay.

What do you expect to be done about it? So now we are forced to group with anyone and everyone?

Sorry I won't group with people that are racists. By your logic in this, I can't leave a group or kick a racist from my group. Ridiculous.

Hrithmus wrote: »

Everyone is missing the point. They made this game to be played the way you went yet everything has already fell into a certain mold already.

EVERYTHING?

Your experience certainly isn't mine. I have yet to run into what the OP has said. Every group I've had up to VR ranks and beyond have accepted all sorts of builds and styles.

Please stop the alarmist hysteria.

This thread is horribly general. I agree with some of the sentiment of the OP, but few of the particulars.

"Play how you want to play" doesn't mean you can be a gimped useless player and people will still want you in their group.

If you're causing my group to die then we aren't having fun. That means I don't want you with us.

Now, I'm not a jerk. I'm totally willing to help people learn and usually do so very nicely. But if you have an attitude of "I don't want to change to be be better. I play how I want to play" then you can play how you want to play on your own.

PS.

Light Armor tanks are some of the best Tanks in the game, with the correct build. I'm running a Sword and Board Sorc with 5 light and 2 heavy right now that can Tank like a mofo.

It's not as if the dungeons are that hard. '3 1/2' players is just as effective as 4 (in terms of making it through to the end). So what's the problem with being a little bit supportive and helpful of someone who needs it. If someone is "under-performing" in a group, help them out, give them a few tips on improving their build or tactics. You'll still make it through the dungeon just fine. Ultimately it costs you nothing, but can be very beneficial to someone. Some people are just so damn self-centred.

Just because you pay $14.99 / mo doesn't mean people have to play with you. Especially if you have a bad attitude.

Join a guild of like-minded people, and only group up with those people and let other people into the guild like that (if you created the guild on your own or have privileges to do so).

Problem solved.

In this game, you're going to run into elitist jerks like that, much like any other online game with any sort of cooperative or competitive element attached to it. It gets even more noticeable in larger dungeon raids where every group member needs to pull their own weight, and if one member isn't performing well-enough, it can spell doom for an entire group at times.

Is that something to get mad about as a group leader and cause you to kick someone out? I don't ever think that's the case unless a group member becomes an annoyance to the party and disobeys/doesn't follow orders (like not running ahead of a party and looting chests, for instance).

The whole point of this game is the end-game challenge provided by PvP and PvE content (both solo and group-based, for that matter). If you don't have a build that can tolerate the level of challenge these higher-ranking zones have, it's hard for a valuable spot in a group to be taken up like that. Everyone in a group needs to pull their own weight, or else a large chunk of that cooperative element of the game falls apart and your group won't be well-coordinated at all. And, as much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't want someone that causes that level of annoyance because it takes time to go through these runs and assemble a party. If someone can't pull their own weight in my group for end-game content, it becomes an annoyance to the whole party...not only myself. The same goes vice versa, which is purely understandable to me.

That said, I haven't had any issues with this in-game unless I was in a public dungeon running with people (although solo) who were in other groups. This was mostly because I'd do the most damage to a boss, only to have one of said groups come in and steal the kill (something I hope ZeniMax addresses in an upcoming fix).

If it's stuff in the leveling experience, sure...no problem there. I could handle one or two people in a group of four not really pulling their weight because at least one member tends to be over-leveled anyways. However, the further you get into end-game content, the more coordination and cooperation is needed out of every group member and the more your own build's flaws become clearly recognizable.