You Nerfed vamp because few people cried about combat tactics?

Sylveria_Relden · May 2014

Hmm I wonder if this means they'll stop camping and killing the vampire NPC's now that it's not such a viable form.... hmm?

Dodece · May 2014

@‌ AlienDiplomat

In all fairness there may be an exploit of which we are unaware. Which may have been discovered, and reported by an honest player. Furthermore it might have been causing technical problems with the server. I have noticed some rather bizarre artifacts while using bolt escape. Which makes me wonder if the way these abilities were implemented might allow a player to warp their character into inaccessible regions. Either through brute force, or simple serendipity.

I suppose the point I am making is there might be more to this then it appears. It would be nice to think that the developers defeated an exploit before it became common knowledge, or found a root cause of some zoning/questing issues. For all we know people using this ability might have caused them to become unstuck in their phase, and as a result couldn't complete their dungeon quests, or get the achievement.

Reykice · May 2014

They were not in line with other skill options, they were balanced. They should nerf them further as even with the nerf they are above many other skill lines... or they should buff all skill lines to compensate.
Either way its an MMO, a vampire/werewolf should not be better vs a normal human at any time, its called balance.
You are lucky they don`t ban your ass as you are creating a thread to defend a very broken mechanic that allows for a person to solo 40 people. I know you will say that is the 40 people all work together and do the right thing they can kill the vampire... but what is he a raid boss?

If its that balanced show me a single person who is not a vampire soloing 40 vampires, then we can all say its balanced.

Kids...

Arreyanne · May 2014

SaibotLiu wrote: »

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

Not a biggy for me since I'm a sorcerer. I'll just switch for bolt escape. But what about the other classes?

Other classes die sometimes when they choose to PVP and dont have a god like escape ability to switch to after one gets nerfed. This statement right here says a lot about the current state of PVP.

"Oh well, my get out of jail free card got used, good thing I have another one."

There should never be such thing as PVPing and then changing your mind in the middle when you start to get owned and escaping on a whim. Escape should require a great deal of effort, not a yawn and a button spam.

See Sorc Bolt Escape

Cry me a river

Sylveria_Relden · May 2014

Don't worry, I'm sure Bolt Escape is being watched closely and is lined up for the nerfbat soon, too. As well as Destro Staff and half a dozen other overly used skills. With any new game, there's always an exploit or 14 that needs to be addressed- if there's a will, there's a way.

Neferath · May 2014

@AlienDiplomat
Well fixing the Bat Swarm stack was needed. Agreed on that, since this should be the case. But the same would count for my sorc overload ultimate since iam able to spam it almost constantly with all the ult. cost reduction vet items + my sorc passives.

Also the mist form speed buff wasnt arguable at all. Mist form was fine if looked at it alone just like bat swarm was fine if looked at it alone.

Only the combination of mist+bat+ult cost red. was, and is, and will be a real issue while participating at pvp in cyrodiil.

Especially now, since you dont have a mana reg stop after using bolt escape because of the recent patch, dispite the fact that german client tolltips still state something different, the result will be that sorc vamps wont cats mist 3 times + bat but only two times than bolt escape out in order to stun the zerg before casting mist +bat swarm again.

I tested that today with light and med armor and there isnt any mana reg stop at all anymore for bolt escape. So therefore i wont even bother to think about my mist form speed.

Not to speak about the fact that noone who would ever consinder to abuse mist+bat is morphing his mist into speed. Everyone will use the poison morph and therefore this change also is just ...

So actually yes, they nerfed vamps and vamps needed to be nerfed.

But unfortunately they nerfed vamps for players who didnt abuse the ult cost red + mist+ bat swarm mechanism at all but only for all those players who stick to pve vamp only or didnt even think to abuse these mechanisms at all.

SaibotLiu · May 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Correction, escaping is for wussies who cant fight on anyone elses terms but their own and need to reset fights and who cant fight their way out of a hole.

You must be one of those kids who must roll with a zerg and spends the rest of your time running from 1vs1. Clearly very skilled.

Even though I agree with you in general but with the above quoted section I really do not.

Sun Tzu the author of Art of War. The grandfather of tactica military combat wrote a few this that proves that you are wrong in your assumptions.

First of he sad: If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.

Secondly he sad: It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them; if double, be able to divide them; if equal, engage them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them.

For the Third he sad: He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.

So saying that escaping is for wussies who cant fight on anyone else terms is not a seine tactical evaluation.

Were not talking about war, were talking about video games.

I guess if you want to apply the principle that "all is fair in love and war" well sure we can open the books on everything. Im sure Sun Tzu would not think twice about using a bot, speed hacks, or any other distinctly unfair features to gain an advantage, since thats what he was all about, using everything available to you.

If you want to justify using all available tactics, no matter how low or dog like, you cant really separate the two and remain accurate to the source material.

This is a bit way off topic so I will be brief.

I disagree. In massive open world PvP you can apply the teachings of art of war with grate success. I have seen it been used with grate success in several different MMOs that focus on large scall PvP.

Your comment about braking the rules of the game is irrelevant. And if you take your time and think about it I think you will see it too. In fact it's because of the game rules are enforced the teachings of Sun Tzu works in a game. Because the basic of his tactical reasoning comes from a game called Go. Its an old strategy game from China.

It is off topic, but its just a terrible analogy to start with. You cant compare war to a competition. Be it sports, video games, chess, you cant do it.

Applying principles is something else entirely. You can apply Sun Tzu to anything, just like you can apply Buddhism to anything.

It doesnt change the fact that Sun Tzu would say "get any advantage you can" and this should never apply in games because we have rules, so it cant be applied at all.

eNumbra · May 2014

I think I would have preferred putting a cool-down on coming out and going back in to mist form. Was able to travel faster than my horse out of stealth and as fast while in it, if even only for short distances that seems like a bonus a vampire should have.

but whatever, at least they fixed bat swarm, now lets take a look at broken talons.

felixgamingx1 · May 2014

Chryos wrote: »

Mortals will still complain when they get beat down by a superior breed. You can't nerf our skill. What excuse will you use now when we tear you apart without using mist?

IKR!? maybe now we will get a 100% weakness to fire nerf too

Saerydoth · May 2014

The bat swarm thing was CLEARLY unintended, and borderline exploit.

E .· ` ‘ / ·. F
Your Tears Fuel Me.

Aenima_pt · May 2014

felixgamingx1 wrote: »

Vamps and WW are supernatural beings they are supposed to have an edge.... Thanks a lot for ruining my vamp

Be glad you can play with your "supernatural" being during day time. In other Elder Scrolls your health would be drained just for walking outside in day time.

Vamps and WW are nocturnal beings, yet in ESO day or night dont affect them.

WW already have a good handicap that is needing a huge amout of ultimate to transform, vamps for me would only be fixed if they cold only use they abilities during night time. As you cant sleep to skip the day time and only play at night like in other TES games, would only make sence to make the vamp skills not trigger during day time, unless it was indoors, like dungeons.

Only in ESO you see vamps runing normal around at day time, its ridiculous and is a lore breaker.

Raizin · May 2014

No fix of buggin vamp abilities after vamp dies/crashes out of game or changes location. But various nerfs, wp zenimax....srsly... $:\$

felixgamingx1 · May 2014

Aenima_pt wrote: »

felixgamingx1 wrote: »

Vamps and WW are supernatural beings they are supposed to have an edge.... Thanks a lot for ruining my vamp

Be glad you can play with your "supernatural" being during day time. In other Elder Scrolls your health would be drained just for walking outside in day time.

Vamps and WW are nocturnal beings, yet in ESO day or night dont affect them.

WW already have a good handicap that is needing a huge amout of ultimate to transform, vamps for me would only be fixed if they cold only use they abilities during night time. As you cant sleep to skip the day time and only play at night like in other TES games, would only make sence to make the vamp skills not trigger during day time, unless it was indoors, like dungeons.

Only in ESO you see vamps runing normal around at day time, its ridiculous and is a lore breaker.

No it's not! Twilight wasn't a lore breaker who said vamps can't walk in day light!? Some old tale?

Ps: are vamps and WW even real?

brandon · May 2014

Nerfing vamps was *** all they needed to do was make it so you couldn't use the bay swarm and mist form at the same time.

NordJitsu · May 2014

Why is the skill line useless for PvE now?

Invigorating Drain alone is enough to get you through the majority of this game's content. And when it gets too hard you just turn on Mist Form, run away, and all the mobs reset.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

brandon wrote: »

Nerfing vamps was *** all they needed to do was make it so you couldn't use the bay swarm and mist form at the same time.

Your suggestion is as intelligent as the way in which you suggested it.

When you say "bay swarm" I picture cheesy explosions and bad dialogue coming at me via a cloud of mist.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Raizin wrote: »

No fix of buggin vamp abilities after vamp dies/crashes out of game or changes location. But various nerfs, wp zenimax....srsly... $:\$

Class Skill Fixes > Option Skill Line Fixes.

Let's get classes fixed, and then we can worry about the other skill lines, so long as it isn't game breaking.

Kudos to Zenimax, though I still would have preferred the complete removal of the Vampire skill line until it were fixed.

Raizin · May 2014

If they have time to *** nerf that ***, then they shld have it for fixing it also lol... doing it on 50% is like not doing it at all ... or atleast i have that feeling.

besides they promised that they ll do it, but didnt deliver. So far they made vamp skill line only weaker and with that bug its almost useles to be a vamp.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Raizin wrote: »

If they have time to *** nerf that ***, then they shld have it for fixing it also lol... doing it on 50% is like not doing it at all ... or atleast i have that feeling.

Unfortunately development doesn't always work in the order that you want it to. It should eventually get fixed, but at least for now Cyrodiil won't be ruined by the cheese of Vampires.

nez · May 2014

Issan wrote: »

I am a vamp. I am supernatural. I should have an edge. I should at least win 70% of my fights.
Everybody else who is not supernatural shall be my toy.

you should be burned to ahes in 5 secs exposed to sunrays, supernatural pile

Raizin · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Raizin wrote: »

If they have time to *** nerf that ***, then they shld have it for fixing it also lol... doing it on 50% is like not doing it at all ... or atleast i have that feeling.

Unfortunately development doesn't always work in the order that you want it to. It should eventually get fixed, but at least for now Cyrodiil won't be ruined by the cheese of Vampires.

Well, as i said - i m ok with nerfs, they r totaly fine and reasonable. But not fixing the major issue as this (the bug of the vamp skill line) is just idiotic - like i mentioned 50% job done.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Raizin wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Raizin wrote: »

If they have time to *** nerf that ***, then they shld have it for fixing it also lol... doing it on 50% is like not doing it at all ... or atleast i have that feeling.

Unfortunately development doesn't always work in the order that you want it to. It should eventually get fixed, but at least for now Cyrodiil won't be ruined by the cheese of Vampires.

Well, as i said - i m ok with nerfs, they r totaly fine and reasonable. But not fixing the major issue as this (the bug of the vamp skill line) is just idiotic - like i mentioned 50% job done.

I can understand the frustration, answer me this question though:

Which should be the priority, to fix Option Skill Lines (Mages Guild, Vampire, WW, etc.) or to fix Class Skill lines?

With the uproar over Vampires getting a nerf, you'd think everyone would be furious about the state of WW. That isn't the case, and while people are upset, it hasn't been as big of a deal as these nerfs. Think about that.

Aenima_pt · May 2014

felixgamingx1 wrote: »

No it's not! Twilight wasn't a lore breaker who said vamps can't walk in day light!? Some old tale?

Ps: are vamps and WW even real?

Twilight? seriously???

Most famous and modern vampire legends are based and came from Bram's Stroker novel Dracula. At least dont bring a teenage movies to the Vampire lore, and if you dont like to read go watch the movie Dracula.

And for your information, vampires exist in the animal kingdom, they are a specie of bat that feeds only from other animals blood. And if you dont know, vampire bats are nocturnal, they are only active at night and spend the day time sleeping in dark caves.

But we are in Elder Scrolls game, and we must follow the Elder Scolls lore, and as i said before in other Elder Scrolls games, being a vampire was made to be played only during night time. You would get your health drained if you walked in daylight as a Vampire.

This is not Twilight Online, its ESO, and in veteran zones the citys already look more a Twilight Online then an ELDER SCROLLS Online.

Botak · May 2014

Been playing as a vamp and the passive still broken.
Bat swarm stacking nerf is good!
Mist speed reduce is acceptable!
Drain Essence = why increase the mana for this skill?

Please fix the passive.

Ezeklol · May 2014

>Combat tactics
My *** sides.

If everyone that abused this clearly broken peice of poor development could either just quit or kill themselves that would be great

The fact this wasnt hotfixed was bad enough.

Raizin · May 2014

I aint saying that they shld prioritize this or that, i m saying that they shld do it properly and not "halfway".

AshTal · May 2014

Go whine at the people who exploited it in PvP. I think the OP actually sums up a lot of the PvP Vampie players views, They are vampires and uber the rest of us are just cannon fodder to die.
In my view Vampires are still over powered. Their skill line should be no better than mages guild or fighters guild but instead it kicks the crap out of any other skill line and gives a huge number of passives.
Be a vampire in PvP or go home.

Raizin · May 2014

that doesnt change a fact that the passives are bugged for every vampire

. I dont care about other stuff, i just want it to work how its suppose to.

blackwolf7 · May 2014

Ya!! Pls fix vamp passive. You already fixed the other skills why not passives as well.

Big_Bob · May 2014

Just a bunch of vampire-users getting butthurt over the nerf and now crying about combat tactics not as op as before.