Jaraal wrote: »

Yep, it's ZOS reacting to one-off extreme YouTube videos again, like they did with Update 35. A couple of "high end" people figured out how to work the system, and now everybody has to suffer.

Correct.

Although I would say for a set that deals Disease dmg and explodes if the effect is removed early really sounds like something intended to be used against players, not PvE.

Besides there are other sets out there with similar affect on mobs and no set should do all the work for you. Its not that they're nerfing this its just making it work as originally intended.

Vulkunne wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yep, it's ZOS reacting to one-off extreme YouTube videos again, like they did with Update 35. A couple of "high end" people figured out how to work the system, and now everybody has to suffer.

Correct.

Although I would say for a set that deals Disease dmg and explodes if the effect is removed early really sounds like something intended to be used against players, not PvE.

Besides there are other sets out there with similar affect on mobs and no set should do all the work for you. Its not that they're nerfing this its just making it work as originally intended.

Oakensoul worked as intended in PvP too but people used it to gain a big advantage and other people complained about it. So even if the PvE nerf is how they meant it to be in the first place we're complaining about getting "robbed" after 20 months where this set has been totally fine and we're not even getting a replacement.

maxjapank wrote: »

Plaguebreak has been a really fun set to use in pve. While it might trivialize normal dungeons, it wasn't particularly strong in Vet dungeons, especially in regards to single target damage. It was not a set used in trials as far as I know. It's very disappointing that the Devs have applied yet another band aid nerf, completely taking away from fun. The game should be fun. Players should be able to enjoy running content.

it was sometimes used in trials, but only for trash mobs, not boss encounters

maxjapank wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Plaguebreak has been a really fun set to use in pve. While it might trivialize normal dungeons, it wasn't particularly strong in Vet dungeons, especially in regards to single target damage. It was not a set used in trials as far as I know. It's very disappointing that the Devs have applied yet another band aid nerf, completely taking away from fun. The game should be fun. Players should be able to enjoy running content.

it was sometimes used in trials, but only for trash mobs, not boss encounters

I have actually seen one video where the players used adds to kill a trial boss. Heard about another being used in a dungeon. But just because a couple of bosses can be cheesed, doesn’t mean that they have to kill a set that is so popular with so many players. I’ve seen a lot of uproar about this in other social media channels, especially as this seems like a band aid fix. Everyone is okay with a bit of a nerf, but don’t just kill a set for pve. I hope the Devs realize that a lot of players find Plaguebreak fun. So I’d ask them to reconsider taking away from fun.

i certainly agree with that, im unsure of this change either, it actually helped make my pvp toon somewhat viable in pve without changing gear

i also had a kind of memey build with a mag necro (dark convergence + plaguebreak) which was great for nuking large trash mobs but had poor single target dmg

with this change im currently thinking i might change up the necros build, maybe try to experiment with a heavy attack setup or something, but will definitely have to change plaguebreak being primarily pve setup right now

Shepoffire wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Plaguebreak has been a really fun set to use in pve. While it might trivialize normal dungeons, it wasn't particularly strong in Vet dungeons, especially in regards to single target damage. It was not a set used in trials as far as I know. It's very disappointing that the Devs have applied yet another band aid nerf, completely taking away from fun. The game should be fun. Players should be able to enjoy running content.

it was sometimes used in trials, but only for trash mobs, not boss encounters

I liked it for the turtle boss in vdsr lol

And even there the damage isn't that enormous to justify making it completely disfunctional. Who on earth even cares about having some fun with it in 9 years old dungeons? Yes, i use it too to get rid of bosses in Dark Shade Caverns faster but that's more of a fun variation when you can solo these things without that set.

FakeZavos wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

I have at least three characters being built around this set in PvE for farming purposes with all pieces including jewelry golden and now you're taking it away from us without even thinking about it for longer than it took to write down the text? Do you really think that's appropriate or even close to fair? @ZOS_Kevin

Welcome to MMO world where sets get buffed and nerfed every patch. Im not sure how this can be a suprise.

El_Borracho wrote: »

Plaguebreak was overperforming? LOL. News to me.

And I'm sorry, but if you have pets in PVP, since they can take damage for you (courtesy of the awesome targeting system), you should be able to infect them with Plaguebreak.

Pets arent rlly the "problem" with it. Its the NPC's on resources for example. Kill 4 at the same time and a player standing in the middle of it will take 40k dmg+ instantly with 0 counterplay. They had to do something with it.

Counterpoint on that kill four on the rss thing. If there is a DK/Warden in Mara's standing on that rss, a plaguebreak NPC bomb -was- the counterplay. How else are you going to do the required damage to even dent them without zerging them down?

FakeZavos wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

I have at least three characters being built around this set in PvE for farming purposes with all pieces including jewelry golden and now you're taking it away from us without even thinking about it for longer than it took to write down the text? Do you really think that's appropriate or even close to fair? @ZOS_Kevin

Welcome to MMO world where sets get buffed and nerfed every patch. Im not sure how this can be a suprise. it.

For me ESO is unique in that I am told I should expect my sets to be gutted and constantly chase and improve new sets every time the devs have a new whim and patch.

Every other mmo I played this was not the case. I don’t recall having this issue in GW2. I also play vertical progression mmos like EverQuest and FfXIV and while I expect stronger gear to come out, it’s relatively easy to get and I’m rewarded with more power. Not running in place on a treadmill.

I also played Black Desert where massive swings in gear changes aren’t much a thing.

Maybe this is common in MMOs I never played - but for me this running in circles for the same or less power, or gear suddenly not working at all for some modes of play is not the “MMO world” I know.

FakeZavos wrote: »

Pets arent rlly the "problem" with it. Its the NPC's on resources for example. Kill 4 at the same time and a player standing in the middle of it will take 40k dmg+ instantly with 0 counterplay. They had to do something with it.

There is counterplay to this: situational awareness. Just get away from these NPC when you see that they are plague carriers. Plain and simple.

Plaguebreak, as it was, unfairly penalized Sorcerers, who were just acquiescing to ZOS's adamant insistence that Pets are the proper way to play. With their low health and poor AI there was literally nothing you could do play Sorc "as ZOS intends" (with pets) without becoming a massive liability to yourself and your group. You simply had no counterplay, someone would infect and instantly kill your pet, and you would blow up. The game simply doesn't offer the level of control over pets to do anything about it. Frankly they had to either make this change, or completely rework the Sorc class.

As to guards, again, was it really fair to allow a bomber to instantly obliterate a group trying to hold a flag by targeting guards that don't have a good enough AI to properly react to the situation? I'm going to go with no. And this is as someone who uses Plaguebreak very effectively in PVP.

As for PVE, I think a better solution would have been to cap the damage rather than to delete the set entirely, that part is definitely an overreaction. The other changes are ultimately good though.

Very disappointed w the proposed PB nerf ... specifically the fact that it straight up won't work in PVE anymore.

tomfant wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

There often isn't a window to react, at all. You can 1hko a guard from stealth applying plaguebreak and blowing it up at the exact same time.

Gankblades do the exact same thing to players with other proc sets than plaguebreak. So what's the difference? Why is this playstyle ok and the one using plaguebreak is not ok?

I've never said that this playstyle is okay, so please don't put words in my mouth. Gankblade as a spec is, in fact, overperforming.

That said, the ability to build to specifically one-shot a given player is not the same thing as abusing a mechanic to wipe entire groups using NPC guards that don't react properly. With players there is counterplay, if you're built properly for PVP with resistances, and points in health, and impen, and keeping your buffs up then you're unlikely to be ganked by a solo nightblade, especially not one that is built for this kind of bombing. Gankblades that focus players aren't using Plaguebreak and in addition to being properly build there is counterplay in skills like camo hunter, inner light, flare, etc. It doesn't take specialized builds to bomb guards with Plaguebreak. It isn't comparable.
Now obviously there are players that aren't built properly that do pose a risk to those around them, but they - being people not NPCs - aren't going to always be there as a continual "valid" target for this type of consistent bomb build, and that is something that can be mitigated by PVP education.

I already mentioned that buffing guards to more accurately represent the current state of player PVP builds would be an option, but that comes with its own tradeoffs, preventing the situation in the first place by exempting guards from Plaguebreak is the easier solution that solves the problem.

This nerf is really too bad, it was pretty fun in PvE. Oh well, just gonna decon it and go back to my other sets.

Okay, so my question is: if it's still going to be usable in pvp, are they not going to care about "blowing up guards"? I'm really confusled why it's perhaps problematic in pvp, but it's pve where it will no longer be usable?

And no, I don't use it myself, never have. But I AM confuzzled by the narrative....

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Okay, so my question is: if it's still going to be usable in pvp, are they not going to care about "blowing up guards"? I'm really confusled why it's perhaps problematic in pvp, but it's pve where it will no longer be usable?

And no, I don't use it myself, never have. But I AM confuzzled by the narrative....

its a nerf for pvp, that is carrying over to pve

in pvp people were infecting the guards and then killing them, exploding 4-6 enemies on a resource and killing the 1 enemy player who was LoSing with the guards

in doing this, and excluding npcs from getting infected, it had the side effect of disabling it in pve entirely

its still going to be useful in pvp, because of infecting players, and pets/npcs being counted as targets to increase the explosion dmg, but they will no longer be walking bombs themselves

Thanks for explaining. I don't know anything about the set really, or about pvp (and no interest in pvp any more, this game or any other) but some of the posts were confusing about what was actually happening.

I do find that nerfs all the time are pretty annoying, but I try to roll with it....