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U38 playstyle
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Deter1UK✭✭✭✭✭I traded off some stats, and went for Order's Wrath, and am running about a 60% crit rate, now.....
The little I lost from not having Stormmaster is more than made up with the larger number of crits... been using this for a few weeks, as I had a feeling on where the nerfs would be ..... 10% less damage while critting nearly 20% more often is working fine.
Auldwulfe
@Auldwulfe I tried a couple of builds out right back of the beginning of Oakensoul and ended up with one Storm master build and one OW medium build (both with sargents). After a while I noticed that I was playing OW most of the time and storm master hardly ever.
It's purely subjective as I never dummy hump but Orders Wrath always felt better to me.0 -
NeKryXe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't understand why the devs respect more the players who enjoy light attacks over the ones who prefer heavy attacks. I played dual bar builds with light attacks for years, recently I decided to try a heavy attack one bar build and I really enjoyed it.
It's very nice to have choices. Both kind of builds should have the same respect on updates. From my tests the dps I got with heavy attack builds was lower than what I was getting on light attacks. So... why did they nerfed it? It doesn't make any sense.
I can't understand why they try to force all players to play in the same way. Why should we all play with light attacks? What's the point?2 -
TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip].
Everyone writing about "10% nerf" should start learning to read. The nerf is way harder than just 10%. Empower was nerfed but that is the minuscule amount. The strongest nerf was done to the most important set for said builds - Storm Master - which is now impossible to keep the buff up. Tested it on PTS, on average I have 4 seconds off-time because of critical hit requirement and the shortened up-time. How would you react if Relequen were suddenly to have only half the up time and would have half dps?
[edited quote]Edited by ZOS_Kraken on April 18, 2023 2:48PM3 -
ZOS_KrakenadminHello!
Having a constructive debate and voicing your opinions is always welcome, but please remember to respect others opinions and keep it civil and be polite to each other.
Zos_Kraken1 -
TheDarkRuler✭✭✭✭✭
✭For all those telling us that the nerf is "only" a 10% Empower Nerf. It is not. The nerf done to Storm Master and Empower causes a >20% damage decrease and even more if not perfectly timing your skills.
Now think about a 20% nerf in Relequen Dps or Whorl of Depths. You consider this even?0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »For all those telling us that the nerf is "only" a 10% Empower Nerf. It is not. The nerf done to Storm Master and Empower causes a >20% damage decrease and even more if not perfectly timing your skills.
Now think about a 20% nerf in Relequen Dps or Whorl of Depths. You consider this even?
Now do it with a different set that wasn't nerfed. It's not like the other sets were that far behind Storm Master, some even outperformed in specific instances. Trying to parse only with Storm Master is just purposely trying to mislead about the performance of the oaken heavy build.
And also, it's not like 80K is low.5 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip].
Everyone writing about "10% nerf" should start learning to read. The nerf is way harder than just 10%. Empower was nerfed but that is the minuscule amount. The strongest nerf was done to the most important set for said builds - Storm Master - which is now impossible to keep the buff up. Tested it on PTS, on average I have 4 seconds off-time because of critical hit requirement and the shortened up-time. How would you react if Relequen were suddenly to have only half the up time and would have half dps?
[edited quote]
Somebody in another thread said that they went from 91k to 81k when parsing while still using storm master. That's a 11% DPS loss, far from massive nerf. That DPS is still more than viable in vet HM content. You can even do god slayer with that amount.
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Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I would find replacement like I did since the game release every time after some meta set was nerfed. People act like It's the first time some commonly used set recived a nerf.TheDarkRuler wrote: »oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip].
Everyone writing about "10% nerf" should start learning to read. The nerf is way harder than just 10%. Empower was nerfed but that is the minuscule amount. The strongest nerf was done to the most important set for said builds - Storm Master - which is now impossible to keep the buff up. Tested it on PTS, on average I have 4 seconds off-time because of critical hit requirement and the shortened up-time. How would you react if Relequen were suddenly to have only half the up time and would have half dps?
[edited quote]
Edited by Galeriano on April 18, 2023 3:09PM5 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I traded off some stats, and went for Order's Wrath, and am running about a 60% crit rate, now.....
The little I lost from not having Stormmaster is more than made up with the larger number of crits... been using this for a few weeks, as I had a feeling on where the nerfs would be ..... 10% less damage while critting nearly 20% more often is working fine.
Auldwulfe
Are you running OW all light, all medium or a mix?
Depends on which build I finally settle on -- as I am tweaking just a few things.... .but, the build that I am probably going to stay with is "odd" in this mix....
I go with Sergeant's mail for jewelry and staves, probably one lightning, and one restoration.... the second being a fairly new decision on it
I am using either Order's wrath, all light, or Queen's Elegance.... probably the latter
Slime Craw, in medium.... no oakensoul, at all
Built on an Imperial
I throw my attribute points into Stamina ... since it's all heavy attacks --- as an Imperial, I get a bonus 2K stamina and 2K health, and the damage scales off the higher stat, between magicka or stamina ..... so I get more that way.
Heavy attacks fill your magicka up, and keep it there, so it doesn't matter that it's a smaller pool.....
My skills are Critical Surge, any of the fighter Hunter skills (you never press it, anyways, it's just for the passive), Daedric Prey and Both Pets, with Flawless Dawnbreaker on my Ultimate (you really don't use this, either.... at least, not much for me )
The reason for this mix is simple - Crit Surge gives you Major Brutality and Major Sorcery,, and you only hit it once every 33 seconds. And when you crit, which has a chance on every pulse of the lightning, you heal for 3300 health.
If you go with Order's Wrath, you get a bit more crit, but you have to swap out the hunter skill for magelight (any morph is fine...and hit it every 10 seconds for Empower. which is a bit more rotation, however, both the fighter's and mage guild skills give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy as passives.
As for the rest, I go with charged on my staves for boosted status.... as exploiter, Occult Overload, Direct Damage, and AOE Damage are a thing... although that last might go to Damage over time, instead, for the restoration staff. I also have ALL the passives, and extra, but I am getting up there in CP.
Final stats are about 37.5K Stamina, 35K health and while only abou 20K magicak, that doesn't matter as you are riding more on the heavy attacks and passives
As for stats, you get the 8% damage for sorc skills, 5% for Slime Craw, with 4% because of medium armor plus the 5% for shock and electric attacks in the storm caller passive, along with the 6% damage from the fighter guild passive (why I prefer Queen's Elegance, as you get 99% uptime on Empower from that ....the bonuses from Sergeant's Mail, and CP's.....
I tend to parse about 70 to 75 thousand, with combat play around 35 to 40 thousand range.... and none of the changes will effect that, at all.... so still very good.
By the way, the Restoration on the back bar, if you go that way, is a great way to take larger targets with heavy hits, as the passive healing will allow you to just endure through most things.... with the lightning front for dealing with AOE.
One key, unless you need the Daedric Prey to pump up your pets, and you are good to go.
Auldwulfe
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, appreciated.
One thing, In my CP, I dropped Occult Overload for Weapons Expert to increase HA damage by 20% --- it brought things up a bit.... I don't get the burst of adds dying around the boss so much, now, but it does improve the overall damage - I do miss my Oblivion burst every second...... but it is what it is.
Auldwulfe2 -
nokturnihs✭✭✭✭It's the double pet sorc that is the outlier upwards, no?
If yes I think instead of nerfing all classes. Would have been nicer to just bring sorc down a bit.
Easy way. Seeing cost of pets is lessened, as they dont cost you slots on your other bar.
To just half their dmg when Oakensoul is worn...
Except sorcs without Oaken soul were underperforming comparative to other classes (DK, Warden especially) and have been for years. They WERE the highest DPS class in the game at launch but after nerf after nerf they became bottom peg quite some time ago... Being replaced by tank metas, etc...
They either need to balance all the classes properly (Necro kinda stinks too in most use cases) by bringing the bottom pegs up to match the top or nerf the top pegs down to the abysmal and less-than-enjoyable levels of the rest of the classes. And all the comments of the oaken soul... Well if it "should be underperforming LA builds" then the same should be the case for EVERY mythic in the game. NONE of them should be worth farming if they don't suck compared to a traditional "complex rotation and tight weaving build"...0 -
nokturnihs✭✭✭✭oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip]
[Edited for baiting]
The whole point of the mythic was to enable disabled players (like me) to get access to content previously unavailable due to the fact that we weren't wanted for trial and other content because we still "spend countless hours" - to not be frustrated. None of us are under the illusion we'll ever be top tier DPS but it would be nice to do more of the content we were unable to do. Unfortunately, due to the same elitism that was present before "you're just not good enough" (we never will be) is still keeping us out of content because trial running groups tend to say no to oaken toons because they run oaken soul and aren't "working as hard to be good". Now ZOS is clearly shutting it down, as apparent with plaguebreak changes, storm master changes, the new mythic, and the empower nerf.
[snip]
The high end [snip] don't have half the limitations, distractions or issues the disabled players have to work around JUST TO LIVE (let alone enjoy a video game) - to see ZOS pandering to the type that ALREADY had access to that content because they didn't NEED to work harder to enjoy content makes me sad.
I don't expect the community to change but ZOS could've had the dignity and compassion to ignore the crowd that hates oaken soul because it means the rest of us suddenly are making them not feel so superior. It was fun to be able to finally do some new things (like normal trials and stuff).
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Kraken on April 18, 2023 8:39PM0 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭I love heavy attacks. I am always winding them up in pvp because they maximize the damage for that tangent point of impact while also keeping my bars full.
I grew to love storm master in PVP because it gives you those nice pre update 35 heavy attacks.
But for PVE, let's be honest these one bar heavy attack builds are a crutch. They are a very strong crutch too relative to how much they simplify the game. The purpose of a crutch is not to allow you to perform at the same level as some one who does not need that crutch, the purpose is to allow you to participate. 10% off of empower and significant off time for Storm Master puts this crutch where it should be. A way to get through any content, but never with damage output that compares to a well played 2 bar dynamic rotation build.
You don't need 90k dps to contribute to any content in this game, and you certainly shouldn't be able to get that much dps just from holding one button and using at most 6 abilities, 1 every 2 seconds. Calm down my fellow heavy attack enjoyers, we'll still be able to clear any content just not with numbers as high as someone that's really trying hard at it.
And these screenshots still show 80k dps. That's respectable dps compared to a decently played full build. With such easy to obtain bench mark damage, only the sweatiest, nerdiest, glasses wearingest trial groups will turn you down for your build.
Now Plaguebreak being taken out of PVE, that's an unfair one.6 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nokturnihs wrote: »oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip]
[Edited for baiting]
The whole point of the mythic was to enable disabled players (like me) to get access to content previously unavailable due to the fact that we weren't wanted for trial and other content because we still "spend countless hours" - to not be frustrated.
No, it was not.
I really wish this narrative would die.
This mythic was introduced to aid in accessibility. But not that kind of accessibility. It was introduced to help players get into harder content with a smaller learning curve. Does it help disabled players, sure, but they were never the actual focus here. [snip]
For this mythic, and Zos' general approach, Accessibility means only access to content. It doesn't mean accommodations for disabilities.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Kraken on April 18, 2023 8:48PM4 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I didn't say it, but it's what brought me here.
Please stop holding an entire demographic hostage for your agenda about your build. It's kind of offensive.3 -
nokturnihs✭✭✭✭DrNukenstein wrote: »Yeah I didn't say it, but it's what brought me here.
Please stop holding an entire demographic hostage for your agenda about your build. It's kind of offensive.
Not sure I understood your request here... I see that like the recent contempt from a lot of the community about oaken builds ZOS is pandering to that sentiment by starting to back out the changes that helped make more of the content accessible to people like me. I find that contempt offensive because of an apples and oranges thing.. I'm sure as proud of their LA Builds skills some players are there's plenty of others who are just proud to have said they could finally start doing more than being carried through harder content.
I suppose if i -have- an agenda it's to get ZOS to either come out and say people that can't do the high APM stuff aren't welcome because this game isn't a fit for them or stop catering to the people complaining about other people finally getting a chance to compete with them (two different demographics).
And that still doesn't change the fact there are clear downsides to using oaken soul, like every mythic. If it didn't cost OS users anything it would be too OP. it's not. It still doesn't outperform LA builds and never will so why do so many hate the fact other people are using it?0 -
Aektann✭✭✭✭
No offense, but not all game modes exist for all players.nokturnihs wrote: »I suppose if i -have- an agenda it's to get ZOS to either come out and say people that can't do the high APM stuff aren't welcome because this game isn't a fit for them or stop catering to the people complaining about other people finally getting a chance to compete with them (two different demographics).
Someone loves pve, someone loves pvp, someone loves endgame content, someone picks flowers.
And you still able to do veteran dungeons and trials with oakensoul ha builds. But you absolutely shouldn't be able to doing trifectas and hm with! Just! One! Button!
Edited by Aektann on April 20, 2023 9:17AM2 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »With the latest chapter Zenimax introduced a new playstyle thanks to Oakensoul Ring and Sergeants Mail. A playstyle that was able to be used by heavily disabled people to enjoy the game they paid for even on higher difficulties. Alot of players came back to the game and enjoyed it.
However, a few professionals were pissed because their hard-trained DPS was in danger of being competed by "noobs". So they made trifecta videos with heavy attack builds and cried out loud how OP it was and how it destroyed PVE. Now Zenimax [snip] and nerfed the game for people with disabilities once more.
And I personally hope that ZOS will get the backlash for being that hard to already disabled people in the future. I personally am so pissed right now, i am not sure if I will continue. [snip]
[edited for bashing]
So all I'm going to say is this. Why reference noobs and disabled folks in your argument? Many people have disabilities of varying types and we were all noobs at some point. A stronger argument might have been to focus on why the change itself is bad.
And to be fair, with Oakensoul already providing so many 'free' buffs it is fair and reasonable for that type of content to meet first considerations for cuts or nerfs as needed, vice something else more exclusive that can't continue to function reliably by meeting another nerf.Today Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire.3 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭nokturnihs wrote: »oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip]
[Edited for baiting]
The whole point of the mythic was to enable disabled players (like me) to get access to content previously unavailable due to the fact that we weren't wanted for trial and other content because we still "spend countless hours" - to not be frustrated.
No, it was not.
I really wish this narrative would die.
This mythic was introduced to aid in accessibility. But not that kind of accessibility. It was introduced to help players get into harder content with a smaller learning curve. Does it help disabled players, sure, but they were never the actual focus here. [snip]
For this mythic, and Zos' general approach, Accessibility means only access to content. It doesn't mean accommodations for disabilities.
[edited for baiting]
I disagree. Microsoft bought zeni. And they are pretty hardcore about accessibility for disabled ppl.
It's no coincidence we got accessibility improvements every other patch. Or oakensoul dropping when it did..
New owners company policy getting applied to new aquisition.
So Oakensoul is that kind of accessibility improvement. At a minimum in addition to the other. It's not like it's an either or...
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
nokturnihs✭✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »With the latest chapter Zenimax introduced a new playstyle thanks to Oakensoul Ring and Sergeants Mail. A playstyle that was able to be used by heavily disabled people to enjoy the game they paid for even on higher difficulties. Alot of players came back to the game and enjoyed it.
However, a few professionals were pissed because their hard-trained DPS was in danger of being competed by "noobs". So they made trifecta videos with heavy attack builds and cried out loud how OP it was and how it destroyed PVE. Now Zenimax [snip] and nerfed the game for people with disabilities once more.
And I personally hope that ZOS will get the backlash for being that hard to already disabled people in the future. I personally am so pissed right now, i am not sure if I will continue. [snip]
[edited for bashing]
So all I'm going to say is this. Why reference noobs and disabled folks in your argument? Many people have disabilities of varying types and we were all noobs at some point. A stronger argument might have been to focus on why the change itself is bad.
And to be fair, with Oakensoul already providing so many 'free' buffs it is fair and reasonable for that type of content to meet first considerations for cuts or nerfs as needed, vice something else more exclusive that can't continue to function reliably by meeting another nerf.
Let's look at other popular sets that you see a lot in high-end DPS...
Relequen & Whorl - high APM required to really make it shine. That's hard for people with coordination issues, arthritis, etc. Lots of activities as fast as you can.
Pillar of nirn - precision targeting when on cooldown to benefit most. Missing or mistargeting because of aiming or pointer control issues and you've wasted the proc on anything from a beetle to the trash behind the boss and losing a lot of DPS.
Hold down left click and hit the skills on your bar in sequence (HA Builds) is something with fewer limiting factors that still allow us meaningful engagement with vet content or (probably normal only) trials.
We give up half our bar (let's get real though most people have issues switching bars anyway so it's a downside but also a relief) and we also give up a lot of fun because I'll be honest and say it's not the most enjoyable or interesting play style. But it allows us to do more than we could.
That argument about "free stuff" could also be applied to whorl and relequen - the only thing you need to do is click your left mouse button real fast. It's reasonable that they also receive nerfs to keep the playing field level right? If whorl got it's cooldown doubled or relequen got it's stack size cut to 3 would folks think it was reasonable and fair? No.
In regards to fair: why is it fair? From everything I've seen here there's NO ARGUMENT that LA builds and traditional 552 builds still out-DPS HA builds. Why is it fair that a new play style that's still underperforming over traditional builds and high APM builds is getting nerfed. One might think it should be reversed or instead just leave it alone. Those LA and 552 builds are still beating out builds that are yes more simplistic and boring but make the game more playable than others - why isn't it reasonable and fair that THOSE builds received the nerf down to match the HA builds?0 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭nokturnihs wrote: »TheDarkRuler wrote: »With the latest chapter Zenimax introduced a new playstyle thanks to Oakensoul Ring and Sergeants Mail. A playstyle that was able to be used by heavily disabled people to enjoy the game they paid for even on higher difficulties. Alot of players came back to the game and enjoyed it.
However, a few professionals were pissed because their hard-trained DPS was in danger of being competed by "noobs". So they made trifecta videos with heavy attack builds and cried out loud how OP it was and how it destroyed PVE. Now Zenimax [snip] and nerfed the game for people with disabilities once more.
And I personally hope that ZOS will get the backlash for being that hard to already disabled people in the future. I personally am so pissed right now, i am not sure if I will continue. [snip]
[edited for bashing]
So all I'm going to say is this. Why reference noobs and disabled folks in your argument? Many people have disabilities of varying types and we were all noobs at some point. A stronger argument might have been to focus on why the change itself is bad.
And to be fair, with Oakensoul already providing so many 'free' buffs it is fair and reasonable for that type of content to meet first considerations for cuts or nerfs as needed, vice something else more exclusive that can't continue to function reliably by meeting another nerf.
Let's look at other popular sets that you see a lot in high-end DPS...
Relequen & Whorl - high APM required to really make it shine. That's hard for people with coordination issues, arthritis, etc. Lots of activities as fast as you can.
Pillar of nirn - precision targeting when on cooldown to benefit most. Missing or mistargeting because of aiming or pointer control issues and you've wasted the proc on anything from a beetle to the trash behind the boss and losing a lot of DPS.
Hold down left click and hit the skills on your bar in sequence (HA Builds) is something with fewer limiting factors that still allow us meaningful engagement with vet content or (probably normal only) trials.
We give up half our bar (let's get real though most people have issues switching bars anyway so it's a downside but also a relief) and we also give up a lot of fun because I'll be honest and say it's not the most enjoyable or interesting play style. But it allows us to do more than we could.
That argument about "free stuff" could also be applied to whorl and relequen - the only thing you need to do is click your left mouse button real fast. It's reasonable that they also receive nerfs to keep the playing field level right? If whorl got it's cooldown doubled or relequen got it's stack size cut to 3 would folks think it was reasonable and fair? No.
In regards to fair: why is it fair? From everything I've seen here there's NO ARGUMENT that LA builds and traditional 552 builds still out-DPS HA builds. Why is it fair that a new play style that's still underperforming over traditional builds and high APM builds is getting nerfed. One might think it should be reversed or instead just leave it alone. Those LA and 552 builds are still beating out builds that are yes more simplistic and boring but make the game more playable than others - why isn't it reasonable and fair that THOSE builds received the nerf down to match the HA builds?
You ask about fairness, I get that. Whose to say?
All I know is before Oak, you had to put in the time to you know go after the sets that you liked. And then, each set sort of reflected its own theme, kind of, so one set is not giving you the buffs from uh... a bunch of other sets like Oak does. Oak is beaming with luxury in that dept. Buffs from many different skills and sets in the palm of you hand. Pocket Meta is what I like to call it.
So yeah why should ZOS nerf a bunch of different sets anymore when one set can do what many in the past did separately? Its an interesting question. If Oak is alright in its current form (for the most part) then why even bother nerfing other sets so heavily when they don't deliver even half as much value? It seems like Oak is the one that needs to be brought into line with everything else on the spreadsheet.
Change my mind.Edited by Vulkunne on April 19, 2023 7:28PMToday Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire.1 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭nokturnihs wrote: »TheDarkRuler wrote: »With the latest chapter Zenimax introduced a new playstyle thanks to Oakensoul Ring and Sergeants Mail. A playstyle that was able to be used by heavily disabled people to enjoy the game they paid for even on higher difficulties. Alot of players came back to the game and enjoyed it.
However, a few professionals were pissed because their hard-trained DPS was in danger of being competed by "noobs". So they made trifecta videos with heavy attack builds and cried out loud how OP it was and how it destroyed PVE. Now Zenimax [snip] and nerfed the game for people with disabilities once more.
And I personally hope that ZOS will get the backlash for being that hard to already disabled people in the future. I personally am so pissed right now, i am not sure if I will continue. [snip]
[edited for bashing]
So all I'm going to say is this. Why reference noobs and disabled folks in your argument? Many people have disabilities of varying types and we were all noobs at some point. A stronger argument might have been to focus on why the change itself is bad.
And to be fair, with Oakensoul already providing so many 'free' buffs it is fair and reasonable for that type of content to meet first considerations for cuts or nerfs as needed, vice something else more exclusive that can't continue to function reliably by meeting another nerf.
Let's look at other popular sets that you see a lot in high-end DPS...
Relequen & Whorl - high APM required to really make it shine. That's hard for people with coordination issues, arthritis, etc. Lots of activities as fast as you can.
Pillar of nirn - precision targeting when on cooldown to benefit most. Missing or mistargeting because of aiming or pointer control issues and you've wasted the proc on anything from a beetle to the trash behind the boss and losing a lot of DPS.
Hold down left click and hit the skills on your bar in sequence (HA Builds) is something with fewer limiting factors that still allow us meaningful engagement with vet content or (probably normal only) trials.
We give up half our bar (let's get real though most people have issues switching bars anyway so it's a downside but also a relief) and we also give up a lot of fun because I'll be honest and say it's not the most enjoyable or interesting play style. But it allows us to do more than we could.
That argument about "free stuff" could also be applied to whorl and relequen - the only thing you need to do is click your left mouse button real fast. It's reasonable that they also receive nerfs to keep the playing field level right? If whorl got it's cooldown doubled or relequen got it's stack size cut to 3 would folks think it was reasonable and fair? No.
In regards to fair: why is it fair? From everything I've seen here there's NO ARGUMENT that LA builds and traditional 552 builds still out-DPS HA builds. Why is it fair that a new play style that's still underperforming over traditional builds and high APM builds is getting nerfed. One might think it should be reversed or instead just leave it alone. Those LA and 552 builds are still beating out builds that are yes more simplistic and boring but make the game more playable than others - why isn't it reasonable and fair that THOSE builds received the nerf down to match the HA builds?
You ask about fairness, I get that. Whose to say?
All I know is before Oak, you had to put in the time to you know go after the sets that you liked. And then, each set sort of reflected its own theme, kind of, so one set is not giving you the buffs from uh... a bunch of other sets like Oak does. Oak is beaming with luxury in that dept. Buffs from many different skills and sets in the palm of you hand. Pocket Meta is what I like to call it.
So yeah why should ZOS nerf a bunch of different sets anymore when one set can do what many in the past did separately? Its an interesting question. If Oak is alright in its current form (for the most part) then why even bother nerfing other sets so heavily when they don't deliver even half as much value? It seems like Oak is the one that needs to be brought into line with everything else on the spreadsheet.
Change my mind.
18 months before Oakensoul I had a heavy attack build, doing roughly the same damage, with similar survivablity .....
It's actually easier to use than the published oakensoul builds and doesn't use it. And that build survived U35 pretty much completely intact.....
Auldwulfe
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDarkRuler wrote: »oh no, a 10% HA damage nerf. Now your 100k parse will only reach 90k, the build is totally ruined! ZOS should have known that being disabled is a valid reason to have a low skill, low effort build that could compete with people who have spent countless hours to perfect their craft. [snip].
Everyone writing about "10% nerf" should start learning to read. The nerf is way harder than just 10%. Empower was nerfed but that is the minuscule amount. The strongest nerf was done to the most important set for said builds - Storm Master - which is now impossible to keep the buff up. Tested it on PTS, on average I have 4 seconds off-time because of critical hit requirement and the shortened up-time. How would you react if Relequen were suddenly to have only half the up time and would have half dps?
[edited quote]
I presume the players who use Relequen would replace it by something almost as good.
Similarly, I'll now use Undaunted Infiltrator instead of Storm Master, if I ever adopt a medium armor set at all. (Since I mainly solo or duo, it's very possible I'll just stick with light armor for my second set.)1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jman100582 wrote: »CaptainVenom wrote: »BaalMelqartu wrote: »Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??
I think they must be talking about PvP. I'd have nerfed staves instead btw. This would have enabled this build with other weapons too. Now It became a pve-only build and lightning staff exclusive.
Not entirely true, pvpers run lightning heavy attack builds but with knight slayer instead. So every tic of the lightning heavy attack channel is like 7% of your total hp
@Jman100582 this is false information. My friend just tested this set on the pts and it only applies the 8 percent damage one time. And that one time is after the final tick of the lightning heavy attack.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0
