U38 playstyle

TheDarkRuler

With the latest chapter Zenimax introduced a new playstyle thanks to Oakensoul Ring and Sergeants Mail. A playstyle that was able to be used by heavily disabled people to enjoy the game they paid for even on higher difficulties. Alot of players came back to the game and enjoyed it.

However, a few professionals were pissed because their hard-trained DPS was in danger of being competed by "noobs". So they made trifecta videos with heavy attack builds and cried out loud how OP it was and how it destroyed PVE. Now Zenimax [snip] and nerfed the game for people with disabilities once more.

And I personally hope that ZOS will get the backlash for being that hard to already disabled people in the future. I personally am so pissed right now, i am not sure if I will continue. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

PrincessOfThieves

With all due respect, an easy build for heavily disabled people shouldn't also be the most powerful option for any average player. And it wasn't even nerfed that much.

BaalMelqartu

I use heavy attack builds on my DPS as my connection is not the best and these builds help since there is less button pushing but I'm confused as to why you feel these builds have been ruined by the patch.
-Empower was only decreased by 10%
-Storm Master set WAS nerfed but if you're not satisfied with the new version of it, just grab Noble Duelist instead.

Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??

TheDarkRuler

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

With all due respect, an easy build for heavily disabled people shouldn't also be the most powerful option for any average player. And it wasn't even nerfed that much.

Have you read the patch notes properly?

Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

From having 200% uptime it now goes down to 160% uptime and you have almost no time to weave in skills in-between. This forces you to almost 100% heavy-attack all time to make sure to re-enable the damage boost within 8 seconds which can miss much more likely in a build with 40-50% critical hit chance. I had it alot that even on the old set the Storm Master Proc occurred within the last seconds of the 20s up-time. It is not a slight nerf, it kills the set into oblivion.

PrincessOfThieves

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

With all due respect, an easy build for heavily disabled people shouldn't also be the most powerful option for any average player. And it wasn't even nerfed that much.

Have you read the patch notes properly?

Reduced the duration of the bonus to 8 seconds, down from 20 seconds.
Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, down from 10.

From having 200% uptime it now goes down to 160% uptime and you have almost no time to weave in skills in-between. This forces you to almost 100% heavy-attack all time to make sure to re-enable the damage boost within 8 seconds which can miss much more likely in a build with 40-50% critical hit chance. I had it alot that even on the old set the Storm Master Proc occurred within the last seconds of the 20s up-time. It is not a slight nerf, it kills the set into oblivion.

You still keep the rest of your buffs, though, with 100% uptime. They didn't touch the ring or the Sergeant set. Yes, maybe you won't be able to cheese Immortal Redeemer anymore (even that is a question tbh). But that's fair considering that it's a super easy build, and cheesing the hardest achievements has nothing to do with accessibility anyway.

CaptainVenom

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??

I think they must be talking about PvP. I'd have nerfed staves instead btw. This would have enabled this build with other weapons too. Now It became a pve-only build and lightning staff exclusive.

Estin

50-70k DPS is all that is needed to be viable for vet content depending on the dungeon/trial. HA Builds have been meta for 4 player dungeons and pug trials ever since they've gained popularity which shows that they were far more than viable. Empower was only decreased by 10%, so you're still going to see it doing 80-90k damage at this point which still puts them in a spot that's more than viable. They're probably still going to be meta for 4 player dungeons. In my opinion, it should've been reduced by 15-20% to make it more fair for the effort required.

Jman100582

CaptainVenom wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??

I think they must be talking about PvP. I'd have nerfed staves instead btw. This would have enabled this build with other weapons too. Now It became a pve-only build and lightning staff exclusive.

Not entirely true, pvpers run lightning heavy attack builds but with knight slayer instead. So every tic of the lightning heavy attack channel is like 7% of your total hp

Dragonredux

Oh man if only there was other sets other than Storm Master that works off of Heavy Attacks. Also this isn't the first nor the last HA builds will be nerfed. Get used it just like everyone else.

PrincessOfThieves

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

In my opinion, it should've been reduced by 15-20% to make it more fair for the effort required.

I agree, but imo it's a good thing that they started with a relatively small nerf. So that they can see how that changes overall performance and act accordingly.

CaptainVenom

Jman100582 wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??

I think they must be talking about PvP. I'd have nerfed staves instead btw. This would have enabled this build with other weapons too. Now It became a pve-only build and lightning staff exclusive.

Not entirely true, pvpers run lightning heavy attack builds but with knight slayer instead. So every tic of the lightning heavy attack channel is like 7% of your total hp

Which is too much. It's weird how this build only works with lightning staves. Hence why a nerf to staves would have been better than making sets pve-only.

bachpain

Today's update was all I needed to see how out of touch Zos is with the community at large. I will not be purchasing necrom or continuing my sub. The plaguebreak nerf, the templar/sorc "buffs", the HA nerfs... The new sets that buff you while standing still when all of the mechanics in the game force movement LOL see you later zos.

Jman100582

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Jman100582 wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??

I think they must be talking about PvP. I'd have nerfed staves instead btw. This would have enabled this build with other weapons too. Now It became a pve-only build and lightning staff exclusive.

Not entirely true, pvpers run lightning heavy attack builds but with knight slayer instead. So every tic of the lightning heavy attack channel is like 7% of your total hp

Which is too much. It's weird how this build only works with lightning staves. Hence why a nerf to staves would have been better than making sets pve-only.

Oh it’s 100% too much, but it’s more so an issue with how knight slayer works and not the staves themselves doing damage. Just adding a cooldown on light attack proc sets and making it so they can only proc once every second would be a more reasonable fix

SirLeeMinion

I think this long-expected nerf is directed at keeping average players from doing well in difficult content rather than specifically aimed at the disabled. Over the last few months, it has become reasonable to queue for vet DLC dungeons with the expectation of actually completing the dungeon with a PUG group. Apparently, that's not a good thing. It was nice while it lasted.

While it's been "absolutely phenomenal for seeing more players being able to participate in end-game content at a much more digestible pace" it seemingly threatens those with good internet who have also gotten good at pushing buttons rapidly. That's very very bad.

Vote with your wallet. It won't change anything, but at least you'll feel better.

jaws343

Firstly, some players having disabilities isn't a viable reason to balance skills and sets around. It's unfortunate that some players have those problems, but ultimately, those problems are not relevant at all when it comes to game balance. Heavy attack buffs and oakensoul were not adjusted or designed for disabled people. They were adjusted and designed to provide another avenue for players to enter into end game content. While that may impact disabled people, they weren't the target imo and honestly shouldn't be considered at all when it comes to game balance.

Secondly, the nerfs here are barely anything. 10% less heavy attack damage is almost irrelevant. Consistently hitting 80K heavies, and now will hit 73K. Not much of a nerf. And the cooldown on the set was probably needed. But let's be real, the chance that this set still has 100% uptime in most encounters is high. And there are plenty of other sets that will work for a heavy build.

I imagine, at most, builds will see like a 10-15% decrease in damage. Which, at the 80K parses that are showing a lot, that's still 68K or so damage. And still 75K+ damage for the higher 90K ish parses.

ApoAlaia

I see the changes to Storm Master as developer speak for:

We don't want you to use this but we are not allowed to remove the set from the game altogether.

Consistently landing a fully charged HA that crits in a 3s window with HAs being 2.1s is nigh impossible, and they know is nigh impossible.

Might be with high enough critical chance, but in the scenarios this set was used by the majority - which weren't 'cheesing' Immortal Redeemer - you'd be lucky to reach 50% crit chance.

And in the groups that max crit chance they wouldn't want a HA build in a million years.

I find the dissonance jarring, the cheerful and upbeat comment about HA builds while in reality they are actively hammering them.

SeveN085

Be grateful it's only 10%. That's a really lenient nerf compared to what ZOS usually does.

Wolfchild07

They should've left it alone when it was shock damage (Storm Master). One of the many fun, non-meta builds I had that they ruined due to changes/nerfs.

FrancisCrawford

I feared a much bigger nerf. The Empower nerf hits DPS by less than 10%.

And Storm Master seems questionable outside of well-organized groups even now, medium armor is well inferior to light armor except when light armor overpenetrates. Admittedly, that's a bit theoretical; I've just been using Spider Cultist instead, and as expected I haven't been hitting the numbers other people report.

Ratzkifal

Did you see the new mythic that buffs your damage against monsters by 15% and gives you an extra 15% critical damage while reducing the damage your light and heavy attacks do by 99%? That is a very good option for people with low APM (including those with disabilities).
Too bad that set will be nerfed by next year like all the others...

ESO_Nightingale

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

With the latest chapter Zenimax introduced a new playstyle thanks to Oakensoul Ring and Sergeants Mail. A playstyle that was able to be used by heavily disabled people to enjoy the game they paid for even on higher difficulties. Alot of players came back to the game and enjoyed it.

However, a few professionals were pissed because their hard-trained DPS was in danger of being competed by "noobs". So they made trifecta videos with heavy attack builds and cried out loud how OP it was and how it destroyed PVE. Now Zenimax [snip] and nerfed the game for people with disabilities once more.

And I personally hope that ZOS will get the backlash for being that hard to already disabled people in the future. I personally am so pissed right now, i am not sure if I will continue. [snip]

tbh if i was zos i wouldn't want to cater to people who act like you. they cater as much as they can without breaking balance and that's what it did.

[edited to remove quote]

PrincessOfThieves

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Vote with your wallet. It won't change anything, but at least you'll feel better.

Unfortunately, people have already voted with their wallet. Op items sell chapters really well.

To improve accessibity and dungeon completions they could've just balanced new dungeons and trials differently, for example. That would help all average players, not only those who pay for dlcs and are willing to play a very specific build.

As for the Storm Master nerfs, there are other sets that affect heavy attacks so if it becomes weaker, players will just use other options.

BlueRaven

I don’t even use those sets or even staves, and I am disappointed in this decision.

Dungeon sets aren’t that easy to acquire, just the rng of getting the pieces you need can take awhile. It’s not like this was a crafted set or something.

It’s just bad form. Zos makes these very difficult trials and dungeons, for a tiny group of players. Zos needs more players doing that content not less.

Auldwulfe

If the game stops being fun, I am pretty sure that other games wouldn't mind that subscription amount... and as I pay for 2 other players, both older women with disabilities that require better accessability... well, those subscriptions would go too.

Nature of the beast.... that said, this isn't really that bad, yet... if they keep hammering it, then the best thing would be to stop queueing for pugs, and let the game go vacant for a bit... they will want the interactions up, and more importantly, subscriptions to rise.... and it will circle around again.

Auldwulfe

YandereGirlfriend

You're not even going to notice the 10%.

Durian

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

I use heavy attack builds on my DPS as my connection is not the best and these builds help since there is less button pushing but I'm confused as to why you feel these builds have been ruined by the patch.
-Empower was only decreased by 10%
-Storm Master set WAS nerfed but if you're not satisfied with the new version of it, just grab Noble Duelist instead.

Or did I miss something else in the patch notes??

Storm Master is good for ranged or magic users, so what is a good alternative? If read correctly Noble Duelist is useful if you're melee right?

BaalMelqartu

Noble duelist is for sure the second best option in my opinion. Please note that to proc it, you do not have to STAY in melee range. Just dip in once in a while to proc it and then step back.

Auldwulfe

I traded off some stats, and went for Order's Wrath, and am running about a 60% crit rate, now.....
The little I lost from not having Stormmaster is more than made up with the larger number of crits... been using this for a few weeks, as I had a feeling on where the nerfs would be ..... 10% less damage while critting nearly 20% more often is working fine.

Auldwulfe

INM

That's why i was against of bringing such builds to the light of day, it's a minuscule nerf, but people are already freaking out. Now you can image how endgamers felt all these years with many nerfs that were specifically targeted at them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ApoAlaia

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I traded off some stats, and went for Order's Wrath, and am running about a 60% crit rate, now.....
The little I lost from not having Stormmaster is more than made up with the larger number of crits... been using this for a few weeks, as I had a feeling on where the nerfs would be ..... 10% less damage while critting nearly 20% more often is working fine.

Auldwulfe

Are you running OW all light, all medium or a mix?

ADarklore

10% reduction didn't even cause me to blink... I think ZOS is feeling generous in that they nerfed it ONLY 10%; they could have gone much farther. So it shows that they are aware of the fine line they are walking between treading on those with disabilities and showing some sort of empathy for those complaining about it.