Nerfing a skill line before fixing the skills?

Trenith · May 2014

Why are you nerfing skill lines before actually fixing the skills or even in the same patch you nerf the skill line you didn't bother releasing a patch to fix the skills? Im talking about the broken passives for vampirism.

At the moment they're is now no reason to be a vampire now that the stages are nerfed in both PvE and PvP (though the nerf was supposed to be applied only to in Cyrodil according to what Ive read in the May 1 AMA), the stages are still broken whenever you zone, the passives are still broken whenever you die, and poison mist still doesn't do the damage it is supposed to.

I enjoyed playing vamp in PvE but now I dont see the point at all which is a bit disheartening. It is also disheartening to see that instead of fixing skills in classes completely then weighting out what needs to be "balanced" things are being nerfed before they are fixed. How do we know what really needs to be tweaked if half the stuff works?

Patch notes 1.07:
Combat & Gameplay
Vampire
Fixed an issue with the ability Bat Swarm so it will no longer stack with itself. It will instead refresh if re-cast.
Reduced the cost reduction per stage of vampire abilities.
Reduced the movement speed bonus of the ability Mist Form.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO · May 2014

Trenith wrote: »

There is now no reason to be a vampire.

Exactly what the community wanted to hear.

Trenith · May 2014

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

Trenith wrote: »

There is now no reason to be a vampire.

Exactly what the community wanted to hear.

No that is exactly what bad players who couldnt use or refused to use skills from a skill line, fighters guild, or learn how to tab target a mist formed vamp wanted to hear. This is not what the community in a whole wanted to hear and not players who enjoyed vamp in PvE wanted to hear.

Im a vamp dk and saw the AMA transcript and saw that it was supposed to be applied to PvP not PvE and was fine with that. I was also under the impression that we would be getting the line fixed at the same time or even before a nerf was applied but logic need not apply apparently.

Exiled · May 2014

If those nerfs bother you that much then yes, there clearly is no reason for YOU to be a vampire anymore. They are still quite viable and useful to a good number of roles and situations.

Yes the passives need fixing along with a couple of other balancing issues, but if these nerfs made the spec useless to you, stop trying to just make use of the most overpowered/broken skills in the game and learn to play better....

Syndiaan · May 2014

the mist form speed reduction nerf is good, the ultimate stacking nerf is good, mist form costing 600 magika to cast now is just stupid.

I have never had my vamp stage reset when changing zones though so I dunno what you are talking about.

tordr86b16_ESO · May 2014

Exiled wrote: »

If those nerfs bother you that much then yes, there clearly is no reason for YOU to be a vampire anymore. They are still quite viable and useful to a good number of roles and situations.

Yes the passives need fixing along with a couple of other balancing issues, but if these nerfs made the spec useless to you, stop trying to just make use of the most overpowered/broken skills in the game and learn to play better....

Are you even a vampire? If not then keep your flapper shut please. You have no idea how irritating it is to get your stage buff RESET every time you zone, take a wayshrine or just by simply relogging. I find this patch note offensive, and I cannot fathom what went through the mind of the person who green lighted this patch.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Exiled · May 2014

Yes I am a Vampire...(A Nightblade Vampire no less, so don't talk to me about broken passives/skills) and yes it is very annoying that the passives reset/don't work.

However it was required to fix the completely and utterly absurdly broken mechanics quickly. Hence this patch being pushed out. The passives etc will be fixed overtime, the things they fixed were the things the majority of people were complaining about.

Personally blame the people who completely abused it and took reduction down to 0 and just wiped out full raids and lol'ed about it. Got what was coming to them tbh.

(Before you say it, yes the stacking ultimate reduction items needs to be addressed too)

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

I agree with this.

Devs need to get their crap together.

FIX it , THEN nerf it if needed.

This is freaking annoying , i might actually give up being a vampire till they fix this crap.

tordr86b16_ESO · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

Selphares · May 2014

hmmm being a sorcerer and I am hardly around in PvP oh and not even use Blinking and stuff like that at all. Still the lost in cost reduction annoys me on the other vampire skills. Yes I sure can take other skills that wor out better in case of costs but it kind of ruins the point to become a vampire by choice if you hardly can use any of the skills, because they are not that effective.

mean I kind of get some eman debuffs to some degree and get for that skills that are effective broken jsut not seem to be fair and still I talk about PvE , I could care less of PvP where I admit that Batswarm hardly works as intended and needs changes for PvP.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

Zarec · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

If they had stuck with the change explicitly for PVP content, I think a lot of people wouldn't be as pissy as they are now. Unfortunately, ZOE has this nasty little habit of lying or stretching the truth, or doing the complete opposite of what they say. That tends to stick in peoples craw. Yes the changes were needed for PVP...not for PVE.

Lets be honest.....if they can't even fix "optional" skill lines correctly...do you really think they can fix CLASS skill lines correctly? I think not.

rudimentxb14_ESO · May 2014

Personally the ultimate cost reduction was needed. NOT the whole skill line. Mist was fine the way it was. You didnt need to nerf mist. Also if you were going to nerf elusive mist why didnt you guys fix poison mist? you know, to give us an option to switch to if we didn't enjoy the changes. The passives are still bugged and nothing has been fixed. Just gutted out. I understand they were too OP in pvp. But the over power didnt come from drain or elusive mist..it was strictly in the ULTIMATE ABILITY. OP is right..you should have fixed the bugs while you were swinging your nerf bat around.

As for reputation..is this really the reputation you want to start your game off with?

Holycannoli · May 2014

Just to let you know, vampire tears will be eagerly drunk by the ESO community instead of wiped away with a sympathetic pat on the back.

Arreyanne · May 2014

They took the path of less resistance. They nerfed the crap out of something that was maybe a bit Op and jacked up the cost by over a 100%.

The ultimate reduction will continue and while it maynot stack it still refreshes with each uses so the people that were spamming bats before will still be spamming bats Great fix

And how about those passives? How many classes have passives that dont work?

Everyone but DK's and Sorc's

tordr86b16_ESO · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

I give a rats ass about Cyrodiil and PvP, my intrests lies in PvE. If they are going to bend at the whim of every whiner crying about getting killed in PvP, then this game is doomed. They should be testing internally, not changing stuff at every turn at the sound of discomfort coming from this forum.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Zarec wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

If they had stuck with the change explicitly for PVP content, I think a lot of people wouldn't be as pissy as they are now. Unfortunately, ZOE has this nasty little habit of lying or stretching the truth, or doing the complete opposite of what they say. That tends to stick in peoples craw. Yes the changes were needed for PVP...not for PVE.

Lets be honest.....if they can't even fix "optional" skill lines correctly...do you really think they can fix CLASS skill lines correctly? I think not.

In regards to your last question: we'll find out. Hopefully, they are just slow to fix skill lines.

My point was that Class Skill Line fixes should take priority over Optional skill lines.

Eventually, I would agree that it all MUST be fixed.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Arreyanne wrote: »

They took the path of less resistance. They nerfed the crap out of something that was maybe a bit Op

Stopped reading there, as everyone else should have as well.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

I give a rats ass about Cyrodiil and PvP, my intrests lies in PvE. If they are going to bend at the whim of every whiner crying about getting killed in PvP, then this game is doomed. They should be testing internally, not changing stuff at every turn at the sound of discomfort coming from this forum.

You can still compete in PVE just fine without Vampire skill line. PVE shouldn't require an Optional skill line. That is what the word Optional should mean.

PvP will always be more important for balance, because the strength of a class not only affects the enjoyment you're having while playing, but also the enjoyment of those around you.

Fix Class Skill Lines > Fix Optional Skill Lines.

If a class is under performing in PvE, then I agree THAT is an issue. Not Vampire under performing.

AshTal · May 2014

I agree with the OP I can't believe it took them this long to fix the exploits PvPers had to put up with, even now this fix is too little too late for a lot of PvPers.
As for the PvE side of things, I think the blame can be put on the PvPers who abused this exploit to solo groups of 30 or 40 guys. Who ruined PvP for so many players, who made PvP on this game a joke. Of course it was only a matter of time before they did the same to PvE and soloed 12 man dungeons.

concobar · May 2014

I think that you will now see DK/vamps or Sorc/Vamps chain casting Bats and they will still own up groups. The nerf to Mist form was uncalled for and unnecessary. That said the LvL9 passive makes the vamp line worth while if you play a NB assassin in PvP. It is sad that a player need become a vamp to be a good NB but... shrug. working as intended?

Personally Bat swarm should have done no damage and instead increase the users dodge rate by a huge amount. How are these bats eating through plate armor and why do their feeding heal me? Makes as much sense as starving your vampire of blood to make his abilities cheaper. Why does my vamp benifit from eating and drinking normal food? why does poison harm me? Why am I not weaker during the day and stronger at night? I will continue to play my vamp because I like the idea of the vamp if not the implementation. Blame it all on Ann Rice and Bela Lugosi.

I would much rather see my NB fixed and brought up to par with DKs/Sorcs than worry about Vamps.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

I give a rats ass about Cyrodiil and PvP, my intrests lies in PvE. If they are going to bend at the whim of every whiner crying about getting killed in PvP, then this game is doomed. They should be testing internally, not changing stuff at every turn at the sound of discomfort coming from this forum.

You can still compete in PVE just fine without Vampire skill line. PVE shouldn't require an Optional skill line. That is what the word Optional should mean.

PvP will always be more important for balance, because the strength of a class not only affects the enjoyment you're having while playing, but also the enjoyment of those around you.

Fix Class Skill Lines > Fix Optional Skill Lines.

If a class is under performing in PvE, then I agree THAT is an issue. Not Vampire under performing.

That is your opinion mate , being a PvE player , i think they should focus on first balazing everything so people stop getting annoyed while playing the PvE content and only then balance for PvP , which will take much longer.

Being a vampire was already a pain in PvE , they started the nerfs before most player even had a chance to see how the skills should even trully work.

Also , while i agree that class bugs are a big issue , being a vampire is something that affects player from ALL classes , so no less important.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

I give a rats ass about Cyrodiil and PvP, my intrests lies in PvE. If they are going to bend at the whim of every whiner crying about getting killed in PvP, then this game is doomed. They should be testing internally, not changing stuff at every turn at the sound of discomfort coming from this forum.

You can still compete in PVE just fine without Vampire skill line. PVE shouldn't require an Optional skill line. That is what the word Optional should mean.

PvP will always be more important for balance, because the strength of a class not only affects the enjoyment you're having while playing, but also the enjoyment of those around you.

Fix Class Skill Lines > Fix Optional Skill Lines.

If a class is under performing in PvE, then I agree THAT is an issue. Not Vampire under performing.

That is your opinion mate , being a PvE player , i think they should focus on first balazing everything so people stop getting annoyed while playing the PvE content and only then balance for PvP , which will take much longer.

Being a vampire was already a pain in PvE , they started the nerfs before most player even had a chance to see how the skills should even trully work.

Also , while i agree that class bugs are a big issue , being a vampire is something that affects player from ALL classes , so no less important.

This is not my opinion.

PvP = Player vs. PLAYER. You're not the only party involved.

PvE = Player vs. ENVIRONMENT. Your "competition" is AI, they do not care whether you're OP or not.

It is my opinion that because more players are affected, that PvP balances should come first. In contrast, for PvE content, you have your class skills to fall back on, and should not be dependent upon the Vampire skill lines, otherwise something is wrong with the class, not the Vampire.

ShadowOfOblivion · May 2014

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

Trenith wrote: »

There is now no reason to be a vampire.

Exactly what the community wanted to hear.

Yep,
Now pay me the cost to respec please? I have 0 interest in the stupid PvP e-peen bulshit so why should I pay for some crybabies?

Anzaman · May 2014

They should have first fixed the Vampire and nerf'd afterwards.

So, what do I have now? My vampires power got heavily reduced, but I still need to relog after every single death. I still need to drop from Stage 4 to Stage 3 after changing zone.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

I give a rats ass about Cyrodiil and PvP, my intrests lies in PvE. If they are going to bend at the whim of every whiner crying about getting killed in PvP, then this game is doomed. They should be testing internally, not changing stuff at every turn at the sound of discomfort coming from this forum.

You can still compete in PVE just fine without Vampire skill line. PVE shouldn't require an Optional skill line. That is what the word Optional should mean.

PvP will always be more important for balance, because the strength of a class not only affects the enjoyment you're having while playing, but also the enjoyment of those around you.

Fix Class Skill Lines > Fix Optional Skill Lines.

If a class is under performing in PvE, then I agree THAT is an issue. Not Vampire under performing.

That is your opinion mate , being a PvE player , i think they should focus on first balazing everything so people stop getting annoyed while playing the PvE content and only then balance for PvP , which will take much longer.

Being a vampire was already a pain in PvE , they started the nerfs before most player even had a chance to see how the skills should even trully work.

Also , while i agree that class bugs are a big issue , being a vampire is something that affects player from ALL classes , so no less important.

This is not my opinion.

PvP = Player vs. PLAYER. You're not the only party involved.

PvE = Player vs. ENVIRONMENT. Your "competition" is AI, they do not care whether you're OP or not.

It is my opinion that because more players are affected, that PvP balances should come first. In contrast, for PvE content, you have your class skills to fall back on, and should not be dependent upon the Vampire skill lines, otherwise something is wrong with the class, not the Vampire.

And , you are plain wrong.

Just because it is "PvP = Player vs. PLAYER. You're not the only party involved." , it does NOT mean there are more players in there.

There can be TONS in PvE overall , which would make fixing it for their experience much more important than to the few people playing PvP , just because those few want to compete.

Ofc , this is a information only zen got , but you have NOTHING to prove that more player get affected in PvP than in PvE.

Zarec · May 2014

In one of my guilds we have max people in the guild...that's 500 people...only 20 of them actually pvp. Why should PVE be penalized for the poor choices of a few?

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Anzaman wrote: »

They should have first fixed the Vampire and nerf'd afterwards.

So, what do I have now? My vampires power got heavily reduced, but I still need to relog after every single death. I still need to drop from Stage 4 to Stage 3 after changing zone.

So every player who wasn't a Vampire had to have 20+ people to kill a single Vampire, right?

So much selfishness.

jnormanb14a_ESO · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Amazing how people are trying to justify the power of a Vampire. Simply put, it was ruining game play for too many people in Cyrodiil, so you get to deal with not being a God anymore.

When the strength of something literally ruins the experience for large sums of people, it is a terrible mechanic and needs to get fixed. The bugs aren't as big of a deal because you can pick other skills, or simply not be a Vampire.

To all you Vampire whiners, be thankful you aren't playing a NB. And hey, most of you are DKs with Sword & Shield, so you are still unjustifiably powerful. (Sorry for all of the assumptions but I am probably right)

Everyone knew Vampire would get nerfed eventually, but I think no one thought ZOS would be dumb enough to Hammer the skill line BEFORE they fixed the freaking bugs. Werewolf is facing the same issues as Vampires, so, before you tell people to stop crying, how about you understand why people are upset.

I applaud ZOS for this decision. Like I said already, it is not fun for all of us non-Vampires to get wiped by how absurdly broken they are in Cyrodiil. I agree that it sucks that passives are broken (remember, I'm a NB?) but let's not ruin the gameplay for large parties getting owned by unstoppable vampires AND for the vampire to have broken skills.

Fix what affects the majority, then hammer down on the passive bugs. Let's fix CLASS skills before we fix "optional" skill trees.

I give a rats ass about Cyrodiil and PvP, my intrests lies in PvE. If they are going to bend at the whim of every whiner crying about getting killed in PvP, then this game is doomed. They should be testing internally, not changing stuff at every turn at the sound of discomfort coming from this forum.

You can still compete in PVE just fine without Vampire skill line. PVE shouldn't require an Optional skill line. That is what the word Optional should mean.

PvP will always be more important for balance, because the strength of a class not only affects the enjoyment you're having while playing, but also the enjoyment of those around you.

Fix Class Skill Lines > Fix Optional Skill Lines.

If a class is under performing in PvE, then I agree THAT is an issue. Not Vampire under performing.

That is your opinion mate , being a PvE player , i think they should focus on first balazing everything so people stop getting annoyed while playing the PvE content and only then balance for PvP , which will take much longer.

Being a vampire was already a pain in PvE , they started the nerfs before most player even had a chance to see how the skills should even trully work.

Also , while i agree that class bugs are a big issue , being a vampire is something that affects player from ALL classes , so no less important.

This is not my opinion.

PvP = Player vs. PLAYER. You're not the only party involved.

PvE = Player vs. ENVIRONMENT. Your "competition" is AI, they do not care whether you're OP or not.

It is my opinion that because more players are affected, that PvP balances should come first. In contrast, for PvE content, you have your class skills to fall back on, and should not be dependent upon the Vampire skill lines, otherwise something is wrong with the class, not the Vampire.

And , you are plain wrong.

Just because it is "PvP = Player vs. PLAYER. You're not the only party involved." , it does NOT mean there are more players in there.

There can be TONS in PvE overall , which would make fixing it for their experience much more important than to the few people playing PvP , just because those few want to compete.

Ofc , this is a information only zen got , but you have NOTHING to prove that more player get affected in PvP than in PvE.

My comments are flying over your head.

1. When you destroy some AI NPC, it feels good to you and that's final.

2. When you destroy an enemy player, it feels good to you and sucks for the person who got destroyed. Now maybe they are bad, but in the case of Vampire, too many people were getting destroyed because they were not Vampires.

Scenario 1: 1 player affected.

Scenario 2: 2 players affected.

Not sure how I can make it any more elementary, and for that I will apologize.

Anzaman · May 2014

jnormanb14a_ESO wrote: »

Anzaman wrote: »

They should have first fixed the Vampire and nerf'd afterwards.

So, what do I have now? My vampires power got heavily reduced, but I still need to relog after every single death. I still need to drop from Stage 4 to Stage 3 after changing zone.

So every player who wasn't a Vampire had to have 20+ people to kill a single Vampire, right?

So much selfishness.

I don't have problems killing vampires in Cyrodiil (1v1).

And in my opinion whole "letting players to stack ultimate reduction" was more or less flaw in their system and they should have just hard-capped it.

Besides, they could have been nice and perhaps introduce both bug fixes and nerf's in same patch, instead of nerfing us meanwhile leaving most of our passives still bugged/worthless without constant relogging.