Who do you think you are?

Fairydragon3 · May 2014

daemonios wrote: »

I played a couple of the open beta weekends but had only ever tried the sorc class. After the game came out I chose to have one character for each class to experiment a bit. This one time I was playing my Dragonknight, who was supposed to be a tank, and decided to do Fungal Grotto. I'm not a heavy MMO player so I thought I could just keep hitting the baddies and they'd go for me instead of some of my squishier group mates. I was using a 2 handed sword and had never even heard of taunts, but I'd been doing well so far, so what could go wrong?

To cut a long story short, the group basically wiped a few times. People complained that I wasn't a very good tank, I explained that it was my first time actually tanking a dungeon... then one of them told me I should be using one-hand + shield and using other skills. I asked them to wait 5 minutes, put a few skill points (luckily I had some spare) into some new skills, which I slotted, and switched to 1h+shield. Actually, I think one of the group members may have traded me the sword and shield, I don't remember. After that, we managed to do the dungeon, everyone thought it was a pretty cool turn of events, I thanked them all, they thanked me (turns out I actually could tank, I was just clueless as to how), and I think everyone enjoyed themselves. I certainly did.

Sorry about the long post, but I felt I had to chip in on this discussion to honor those random group members, whose names I don't remember but who gave me the exact opposite experience to that described in OP.

HAPPY BIRHTDAY!

Fairydragon3 · May 2014

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

You got a point @paradoxorganisationb16_ESO , but as an example in WoW, I never cared and actualy encouraged people to take along undergeared healers as I knew I could catch their slack in performance... It got those healers better gear and they became better and over time they caught up in performance...

I always hated people that demanded people had "the gear" ... They were there to get "the gear" but how could they get it, if people never took them along...

I see these games as social games, and making new friends is always nicer then having low repair costs or a new shiny virtual weapon... Friends tend to last longer then most games do

And then they demanded achivements and gearscore. the reason Ieft 1/2 the game became addons

Hexi · May 2014

If you don't wish follow someone elses rules, form your own groups. No one is forcing you to join groups already formed by someone else. You don't want to play with them and they don't want to partake in your roleplaying. Stop making a fuss about yourself and make your own groups.

daemonios · May 2014

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

HAPPY BIRHTDAY!

lolwut?

crush83 · May 2014

Hexi wrote: »

If you don't wish follow someone elses rules, form your own groups. No one is forcing you to join groups already formed by someone else. You don't want to play with them and they don't want to partake in your roleplaying. Stop making a fuss about yourself and make your own groups.

I assume he's getting placed into groups with these players via the dungeon finder. I assume he's using the dungeon finder tool because he doesn't have people to group with already. I assume he doesn't have people to group with already because he hasn't tried to recruit friends socially in-game.

I don't blame him for that, though, since you are likely to be trolled hard these days before finding a core group of decent individuals to play with.

Best bet, as others have stated, is find a guild that is casual.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · May 2014

Hexi wrote: »

If you don't wish follow someone elses rules, form your own groups. No one is forcing you to join groups already formed by someone else. You don't want to play with them and they don't want to partake in your roleplaying. Stop making a fuss about yourself and make your own groups.

No need for name calling, seriously... the OP wasn't just talking about premade groups but about the groupfinder for dungeons too... so no need to be a meanie

Artemiisia · May 2014

VR dungeons:

If I see a vampire tank in banished cells, I think right away wipe party, so if I ask if he/she has flame residents glyphs on erm, that dont make me a bad guy, I just dont want to spend 1 hour wiping because of tank didnt spend time boosting his/hers disadvantages.

Had a stage 4 vampire healer in there as well once, we couldn't get pass second boss, because he weren't able to run over to tank at one point of the fight to heal him, that happen like 4-5 wipes.

For me thats not going to far, im in a group dungeon, my party believes in me, that I have the right gear, and I believe in them right up to the 3rd wipe. Then im asking for sure whats going on.

.....and for the term Elite, im no way near being able to call me that, maybe in a year or two, still feel like a newbie, even at VR3

SeñorCinco · May 2014

Yet another reason to actually implement the survey to instance like minded players.

Like was pitched in the beginning.

It's usually me leaving the group in lieu of being kicked out. I entered a group dungeon with a few folks and all of us were meeting for the first time. After the first encounter, a few of us was trying to listen to the dialog and follow the the storyline, even discuss among ourselves what was going on before continuing.

Half way through the dialog someone feels compelled to let us know the door was behind us.

Mr. Anxious : Guys... this way!
5 seconds latter...
Mr. Impatient : HEY! TURN AROUND!!

Half of the group split up and was engaging the next enemy before a few of us even completed the dialog form the first area. It didn't take long for me to realize, I was with the wrong crowd. It was a complete mess. I hung with them but voiced my opinion at the end and simply parted ways.

It was understood that we were all story driven players and took things at a very slow pace. Obviously that was a misunderstanding.

Mohkia · May 2014

From my time over the past 20 so years of playing online games there have always been these people. They have fun their way, I have my fun my way. The group dungeon finding tools that have become a staple in modern mmo's has in my opinion hurt the general community of many of these games. Personally I don't use them. To much randomness for me. Try and find a guild of people that will support you and enjoy your company. When it comes right down to it it's not worth stressing over. People will be people and some people just are not very nice.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · May 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

.....and for the term Elite, im no way near being able to call me that, maybe in a year or two, still feel like a newbie, even at VR3

We all still are at this point

Those that tend to forget that are just dilluding themselves or think being good at another game makes them good at all games.

I mean, I been very good at some games... crappy at others and attrosious at even others...

But even at near VR5, I am still a noob at ESO, and I'm not ashamed to admitt that... admitting it doesn't take anything away from my fun and pleasure I have playing ESO

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

You got a point @paradoxorganisationb16_ESO , but as an example in WoW, I never cared and actualy encouraged people to take along undergeared healers as I knew I could catch their slack in performance... It got those healers better gear and they became better and over time they caught up in performance...

I always hated people that demanded people had "the gear" ... They were there to get "the gear" but how could they get it, if people never took them along...

I see these games as social games, and making new friends is always nicer then having low repair costs or a new shiny virtual weapon... Friends tend to last longer then most games do

I agree it's problematic and i briefly touched the subject of skill in my comparison of lesser geared player performing better then a better geared one.

Of course everyone has to get thier gear somehow and sometimes you have to carry someone for whatever reason.

But my thought on this is not complicated really. I have played mmos for 17 years i belive somewhat more casual then what i used to but still seeks out people that seek to constantly become better and improve. Anyways to the point after having played games and mmo for this amount of time (could be way shorter but this is just me) i'm fairly confident in my ability to be able to regonise skilled players.

So of course if i group with a skilled player that needs gear you take him/her too as in the long run and overall picture will pan out better.

crush83 · May 2014

If you give the option for a player to say what type of players they want to play with, that doesn't stop a noob geared player from saying he wants to group up with elitists. Of course, I guess you could argue that he shouldn't feel alarmed if he chooses that option and gets kicked.

GreySix · May 2014

This is the reason its just my wife and I playing together. I've no patience for "elite" or other players telling me how to suck the egg.

Really? Go pound sand, you.

crush83 · May 2014

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

So of course if i group with a skilled player that needs gear you take him/her too as in the long run and overall picture will pan out better.

The problem is that these groups aren't waiting to see if a player is skilled or not. They are kicking them out judged by their gear before the have even seen how the person plays.

Some players are better with noob gear than heavily geared players, but aren't even given the chance to show those skills.

LunaRae · May 2014

My very first MMO was FFXI ... it was such a new concept back then to have a subscription based service where you paid monthly... NONE of my friends were interested, and neither were their parents. I don't recall the options being nearly as vast as they are today. Pre-paid game cards? nope. Multiple online services such as paypal? Nope. The audience in general was extremely small, and in turn I think you were only getting a fraction of the people you are seeing nowadays.

I'm not gonna talk too much about parenting, but suffice to say I think we're seeing a ton of children and younger teens playing games and the people they interact with strongly influences them. I really don't think they're ready to interact with the world just yet when they're still easily influenced by others.

But yea +1 to playing the game you want to - and PS: I am an ESO add-on virgin

and PSS: I play first-person, 100% of the time

Audigy · May 2014

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

They don't want to kick you out, they just don't want to play with you. Honestly it's their choice to play with you or not, you are always welcome to start your on group, then you make the rules. But you can't judge someone just because they want to play differently than you. also you could just Lie, there is no way they can monitor your stats during gameplay, they can only see their own

Do you see the flaw in your own statement?

You say that the OP should make his own group, but why not the Elitist´s?

Look, from my point of view random groups are exactly this, random. Nobody in these groups has the right to flame someone for his spec, dps, race or choice of pink armor. That's why these groups are called random

However, if someone wants to make some super elite group with a professional environment, why does he look for that group in a random group tool?

The issue the OP and many of us have is the abuse of the group finder tool, the abuse of random groups in MMO´s where one or two Elitist´s get in and start to boss around others.

If someone wants to break a new world record in gaming then he should open a guild for this. There is no reason to expect or demand professional gaming in a random pug.

First time you said that this was a randomized group. I haven't used the group finder, but I assume you can request yourself to be the leader. And you are doing the same thing they are, you call them elitist but maybe this is just how THEY like to play, just like how you like to play your way. You really need to think about this another way than just. OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT LETTING ME PLAY!!! sounds to me like yall wouldn't get along anyway. so why do you want to try to play with those players

I don't care how they want to play, its non of my business what they do. Everyone should play as he or she wants, but to dictate others your game is wrong.
Those Elitist´s however boss others around, insult them for not perfect builds and this in every MMO since WOTLK.

A pug is a pug and not a group to break records. If Elitists would stay in their guilds and pro-gamer arrangements than non of this would need to be discussed. But the fact is, they want to force others into their type of gaming as soon they join a public group.

How often did I have a DPS in a random group at wow, who acted up after some DPS didn't do his damage or when the healer let him die... As a tank you have a good overview about whats happening and I saw people being kicked, harassed and insulted without any valid reason, just because Mr. Elitist felt someone was not pulling his weight.

Elitist´s are unable to tolerate others, players who play different, less hardcore or just less good. I even saw a Priest vote kicked because he wasn't a dwarf...

And this is the problem and not anything else.

If someone thinks he is so awesome that the general public is not worthy his company, then this guy should play in private groups and not public.

crush83 · May 2014

GreySix wrote: »

This is the reason its just my wife and I playing together. I've no patience for "elite" or other players telling me how to suck the egg.

Really? Go pound sand, you.

At some point, you have to complete group content. Which means finding players to group with.

Of course, it's not too hard to make a couple of friends and group up with them. What's shocking to me that in MMOs these days, people don't bother forging friendships.

You either join a guild, or you play by yourself. There's no middle ground really. I think that's why ESO made the option of being in 5 guilds. You should always be able to find someone to play with. The problem is that being in a guild comes with drawbacks.

Thechemicals · May 2014

We need to stop the self denial and admit that it is at least a little bit satisfying to boot someone from a group who "cant get right". Human nature- true story.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO · May 2014

I agree with that add-on to be honest. Why? Because I like to know the current strenghts and weakness' of my party. For example we had a sorcerer who kept dying...to everything in a vet dungeon. Then after asking we found out he had 1200 hp...at vet 7. Safe to say, we had to find another player to replace him.

AlMcFly · May 2014

You probably shouldn't be posting this here. This forums is full of the same scumbags that are booting you from parties because you aren't geared the way they want. Regardless, unless you are doing V5+ veteran dungeons, those who are "gear-checking" are the noobest people of the game. They haven't figured out that the game is so easy for groups that they're completely wasting time being elitist. It's unnecessary.

Your 15 bucks entitles you to the same rights as their 15 bucks. If they want to be asses and try making other people's days miserable, their 15 bucks entitles them to. It's your fault that you are taking so much offense to it. Something like this STILL bothers you after 10+ years of playing mmos? This isn't something new.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

crush83 wrote: »

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO wrote: »

So of course if i group with a skilled player that needs gear you take him/her too as in the long run and overall picture will pan out better.

The problem is that these groups aren't waiting to see if a player is skilled or not. They are kicking them out judged by their gear before the have even seen how the person plays.

Some players are better with noob gear than heavily geared players, but aren't even given the chance to show those skills.

Yes i without shame admits to not always giving people the chance to show what they can do in lesser gear, but it's usually because the friendslist or guild already offers what i need so there is no reason to take a chance on a random

But again to the big overall point, it's thier choice and you can call it elitism or whatever you want but demanding that they group with you is not included in the ToS you sign and pay for

crush83 · May 2014

There seems to be a lot of double standards floating around here.

I keep hearing "they shouldn't be able to tell me how to play" in reference to being kicked out of a group based on your gear score.

However, flip that around. If they aren't allowed to kick you from the group based on your inferior gear, then you are basically saying that they can't play how they want to play.

It's simple. Find some friends to play with. That's the whole point of an MMO.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

kccaine · May 2014

Didn't bother reading the rest of the comments. Just going to opine based on my experiences as an MMO player. This is for the OP.

In every closed mathematical system, there will be some set of optimal solutions. The whole idea of "theory crafting" is the process of statistically and empirically determining those optimums. Hardcore, competitive players (typically the PVP types) will always try to optimize so they can be the most competitive at the game. Some PVE'ers are like this too, but I find them to generally be less competitive than the PVP crowd.

That having been said, there are really three types of gamers these days. The ADD types (15 - 30 minutes at a time), the casuals (1-3 hours, almost daily), and the hardcore (every waking minute). While there are certainly exceptions to every rule, these groups don't tend to mix well because they all have different goals. You must accept this as a reality of any MMO gaming community. If you can't accept it, maybe MMOs aren't really for you.

All of this having been said, there is one solution for you. Find a guild. It doesn't seem like you fall into the ADD category and you definitely aren't hardcore, so you must be casual. That's fine. Instead of trying to PUG with random people and have negative experiences, find a guild (or guilds) of similar interests and socialize with them. I think you'll have a much better experience.

Personally, I am somewhere between casual and hardcore and I know how frustrating I find it when I end up with a PUG that has crap gear, bad skills, doesn't know what they are doing or otherwise slows me down. This hasn't yet applied to ESO as I haven't found much to be exceptionally difficult, even with little to no coordination, but it has definitely been true in other games.

Milanna · May 2014

crush83 wrote: »

Find some friends to play with. That's the whole point of an MMO.

Shouldn´t that apply to the people striving to form the perfect group aswell? Play with friends and like-minded, and try not to disrupt the looking for group system too much?

Because they do disrupt that system.
I can understand people getting frustrated from getting kicked out of groups randomly put together.

Harkrider · May 2014

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

I know who I am! I'm the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude.

What do you mean, you people?

[Deleted User] · May 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

LunaRae · May 2014

It should be a given - if you play public grouping using a service that just groups on very vague requirements, you're going to get the best and worst experiences. There should be no expectations, period. This is true of any game, public = anything can happen. I think Zeni needs to implement a service more oriented to pro/hardcore players to help separate casual players from hardcore.

crush83 · May 2014

Milanna wrote: »

Because they do disrupt that system.
I can understand people getting frustrated from getting kicked out of groups randomly put together.

So what do you suggest? Let me guess. They shouldn't be allowed to kick you from the group? Let me know how you feel about that when you get that trolling free-loader in your group who just runs around looting chests while you try to clear content.

You don't have to join a guild. Find some like-minded gamers. Become friends. Group up with them when you can.

crush83 · May 2014

LunaRae wrote: »

I think Zeni needs to implement a service more oriented to pro/hardcore players to help separate casual players from hardcore.

The problem is that the casuals grow envious of the hardcore players. They will want to be included in whatever services the hardcore players are accessing, whether they truly qualify for it or not. It's that sense of entitlement thing.