Does that mean players under level 15 will also wipe their group because they cannot slot a second weapon at all?

It’s an easy enough trial on norm that we didn’t mind low level players joining on occasion to see a trial and learn some basic mechanics. I’m sorry if they’ve decided to exclude those players due to something outside the players’ control.

thorwyn wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

The overload mechanic in Cloudrest that was bugged if you did'nt have a weapon slotted back bar now works again. You will wipe your group and die if you do not weapon swap back bar. This is probably the best news to come from this patch. As all players should deal with mechanics equally, no matter the build.

Source?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCj6YS4K6Mg

thorwyn wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

The overload mechanic in Cloudrest that was bugged if you did'nt have a weapon slotted back bar now works again. You will wipe your group and die if you do not weapon swap back bar. This is probably the best news to come from this patch. As all players should deal with mechanics equally, no matter the build.

Source?

if you're a conspiracy theorist, shows that no weapon is back bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atD0cr_0cDA

LordDraw wrote: »

Players who abused this bug to get "The Path to Alaxon" achievement should lose it because normal groups which use 2-bar builds couldn't "skip" this mechanic during vCR +3 which is totally unfair for everyone.

It wasn't a reported as a bug, so players should not be punished like it was one. All werewolf players that used their ultimate since this trial started would have to lose their ultimates going back years for something they couldn't help.

Trials get nerfed, sets get changed, etc. Someone who an achievement when things were easier still got the achievement by playing the game as it was presented to them. Nobody should ever be punished for that.

if you're a conspiracy theorist, shows that no weapon is back bar.

Oh, not at all. I just wanted to have some evidence before sharing it on my dc channels.
Thanks for testing

It still boggles my mind all the hate and animosity for one bar builds. What gives any player the right to tell any other player how to play the game? It’s just a game and it's a build option that the developers put into the game. If you personally don't like one bar builds then it's your right to not have them in YOUR group but that shouldn't keep others from being more inclusive with their groups. Also, I thought it was no weapon OR skills on the back bar.

Does it impact werewolves who transform?

Heelie wrote: »

The overload mechanic in Cloudrest that was bugged if you did'nt have a weapon slotted back bar now works again. You will wipe your group and die if you do not weapon swap back bar. This is probably the best news to come from this patch. As all players should deal with mechanics equally, no matter the build.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but further testing today indicates that it has been changed to where it will actively target 2 bar players if there’s a 1 bar player in the group. Seems, yes, It was fixed, but now 1 bar players just won’t get it at all! Hooray! What a stealth buff.

Heelie wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

The overload mechanic in Cloudrest that was bugged if you did'nt have a weapon slotted back bar now works again. You will wipe your group and die if you do not weapon swap back bar. This is probably the best news to come from this patch. As all players should deal with mechanics equally, no matter the build.

Source?

if you're a conspiracy theorist, shows that no weapon is back bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atD0cr_0cDA

what about no abilities+weapons on the backbar? the game does a check to see if you have no abilities on your other bar otherwise werewolves wouldn't be able to do vCR


edit: i've run several +1 and +2 clears and attempts with Relequen since the patch and I always tell the people using oakensoul to not have abilities or weapons on their backbar, we have not had people complain about receiving ramping damage and we have had people clear. This video the person clearly has abilities on the backbar, which goes against the normal recommendations. Previously, you would receive a dot if you had abilities on the backbar but the damage wouldn't ramp up (this seemed unintended).
Just look at the leaderboards on esologs, people are using oakensoul.


posting a correction- nefas is right, they must have changed it overnight. one-bar builds are no longer viable, oakensoul or not.

edit 2: You can still use oakensoul on like 1 or 2 characters (max) but if someone dies the overload mechanic can swap to the one-bar people and being unable to swap, they will kill the group. This fix is very anti-meta (which is a good thing, half the trial group shouldn't be rocking the same build).

Soarora wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Does that mean players under level 15 will also wipe their group because they cannot slot a second weapon at all?

It’s an easy enough trial on norm that we didn’t mind low level players joining on occasion to see a trial and learn some basic mechanics. I’m sorry if they’ve decided to exclude those players due to something outside the players’ control.

Considering that level 15 would only be going into normal cloudrest, I’d say that’s not an issue. Just have at least one healer be decent and I’m sure it’ll be fine. I doubt the damage is that much on normal, let alone ncr+ not relequen.

I think zos should make an official statement about this. We shouldn’t have to go through and test things because they won’t tell us things… reminds me of when they changed all the boss health by a set % and refused to say that was true… so people had to go look… at every boss…

I didn’t really care that people with oakensoul didn’t have to barswap because they physically can’t. My understanding was the trade-off is they get the first tick, which most people would get before being able to barswap anyways. It can be a difficult mechanic but honestly I think it’s the least difficult of all the mechanics in there.

It’d still be punishing a level <15 player and their group just because of the low level of the player. That does not accord with ZOS' push for greater accessibility and does not have precedent elsewhere - sub-50 players actually get buffs to help them and their groups, like Major Brutality being up to 30% weapon damage rather than 20%. I would hope that it would be easy enough to check the level of the player and exempt them if under 15.

This whole situation is another example of the contradictory goals ZOS has, especially in terms of pushing for more accessibility. This mechanic requires barswapping, and new players and those who play one-bar builds (for whatever reason) will hurt their group by joining if Voltaic does its full damage on them. So on the one hand, if the mechanic doesn't do its full damage to one-bar/underleveled builds, then it can easily be cheesed. On the other, if it does do its full damage, then it punishes (in the case of Oakensoul) the thing that has arguably done the most good for accessibility combat-wise in the game's history, especially after the across-the-board nerfs in Update 35. I'd guess that this mechanic was designed long before they were thinking of making one-bar builds the go-to for accessibility, and now they're stuck either letting players cheese it or making their accessibility builds essentially backfire in this trial.

In testing before this patch, we found that it had nothing to do with Oakensoul or WW but it was anyone who didn't slot a backbar weapon who got a reduced value Voltaic Overload. It would continue to tick on those players for the full 10 seconds, but Voltaic on them would not do the damage that it normally would have (maybe around 25%) and did not hurt anyone else. Oakensoul/WW players who slotted a backbar weapon (which they couldn't use) got the regular ramping damage that could and did kill people, since they couldn't swap away. It was only about whether a backbar weapon was slotted or not.

It is also very easy to swap away from Voltaic without taking the first tick of damage. You get nearly a 2-second grace period before it hits you and then starts hitting others. The absolute earliest I've seen is 1.75 seconds.

Nilandia wrote: »

In the previous patch, abilities on the backbar did not affect whether you got voltaic.

this is false... in u36 people still got the initial damage of voltaic, but the damage didn't creep up.


also anyone complaining about under level 15s being unable to do ncr, they'll still be able to do ncr... the video is misleading and people who don't understand cloud rest mechs seem to be the most bewildered by these kinds of posts. the damage isn't nearly as bad in ncr as it is for vcr and people with 2 bars still ignore the mechs in ncr

Soarora wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Does that mean players under level 15 will also wipe their group because they cannot slot a second weapon at all?

It’s an easy enough trial on norm that we didn’t mind low level players joining on occasion to see a trial and learn some basic mechanics. I’m sorry if they’ve decided to exclude those players due to something outside the players’ control.

Considering that level 15 would only be going into normal cloudrest, I’d say that’s not an issue. Just have at least one healer be decent and I’m sure it’ll be fine. I doubt the damage is that much on normal, let alone ncr+ not relequen.

I think zos should make an official statement about this. We shouldn’t have to go through and test things because they won’t tell us things… reminds me of when they changed all the boss health by a set % and refused to say that was true… so people had to go look… at every boss…

I didn’t really care that people with oakensoul didn’t have to barswap because they physically can’t. My understanding was the trade-off is they get the first tick, which most people would get before being able to barswap anyways. It can be a difficult mechanic but honestly I think it’s the least difficult of all the mechanics in there.

It’d still be punishing a level <15 player and their group just because of the low level of the player. That does not accord with ZOS' push for greater accessibility and does not have precedent elsewhere - sub-50 players actually get buffs to help them and their groups, like Major Brutality being up to 30% weapon damage rather than 20%. I would hope that it would be easy enough to check the level of the player and exempt them if under 15.

This whole situation is another example of the contradictory goals ZOS has, especially in terms of pushing for more accessibility. This mechanic requires barswapping, and new players and those who play one-bar builds (for whatever reason) will hurt their group by joining if Voltaic does its full damage on them. So on the one hand, if the mechanic doesn't do its full damage to one-bar/underleveled builds, then it can easily be cheesed. On the other, if it does do its full damage, then it punishes (in the case of Oakensoul) the thing that has arguably done the most good for accessibility combat-wise in the game's history, especially after the across-the-board nerfs in Update 35. I'd guess that this mechanic was designed long before they were thinking of making one-bar builds the go-to for accessibility, and now they're stuck either letting players cheese it or making their accessibility builds essentially backfire in this trial.

In testing before this patch, we found that it had nothing to do with Oakensoul or WW but it was anyone who didn't slot a backbar weapon who got a reduced value Voltaic Overload. It would continue to tick on those players for the full 10 seconds, but Voltaic on them would not do the damage that it normally would have (maybe around 25%) and did not hurt anyone else. Oakensoul/WW players who slotted a backbar weapon (which they couldn't use) got the regular ramping damage that could and did kill people, since they couldn't swap away. It was only about whether a backbar weapon was slotted or not.

It is also very easy to swap away from Voltaic without taking the first tick of damage. You get nearly a 2-second grace period before it hits you and then starts hitting others. The absolute earliest I've seen is 1.75 seconds.

Ah, I was mistaken then. First tick of damage’s amount of damage, not only getting the first tick. Regardless, it seemed intentional so I’m surprised it’s changed. And angered that it wasn’t mentioned in the patch notes if it was intentional (either now or before). I wonder if it has anything to do with barswapping with block or if it’s an intentional change. Regardless, it’s really weird that these things have to be figured out by trial and error (pun not intended). It’s not just a mechanic where the players figure out strats… especially because the only way to do the mechanic IS to barswap, so logically no barswap = can’t run CR in the minds of many. We need communication on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABbkhvYxWAQ

Nefas confirmed with devs that the change is intended and they just forgot to add it to the patch notes.

Heelie wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Does that mean players under level 15 will also wipe their group because they cannot slot a second weapon at all?

It’s an easy enough trial on norm that we didn’t mind low level players joining on occasion to see a trial and learn some basic mechanics. I’m sorry if they’ve decided to exclude those players due to something outside the players’ control.

Considering that level 15 would only be going into normal cloudrest, I’d say that’s not an issue. Just have at least one healer be decent and I’m sure it’ll be fine. I doubt the damage is that much on normal, let alone ncr+ not relequen.

I think zos should make an official statement about this. We shouldn’t have to go through and test things because they won’t tell us things… reminds me of when they changed all the boss health by a set % and refused to say that was true… so people had to go look… at every boss…

I didn’t really care that people with oakensoul didn’t have to barswap because they physically can’t. My understanding was the trade-off is they get the first tick, which most people would get before being able to barswap anyways. It can be a difficult mechanic but honestly I think it’s the least difficult of all the mechanics in there.

It’d still be punishing a level <15 player and their group just because of the low level of the player. That does not accord with ZOS' push for greater accessibility and does not have precedent elsewhere - sub-50 players actually get buffs to help them and their groups, like Major Brutality being up to 30% weapon damage rather than 20%. I would hope that it would be easy enough to check the level of the player and exempt them if under 15.

This whole situation is another example of the contradictory goals ZOS has, especially in terms of pushing for more accessibility. This mechanic requires barswapping, and new players and those who play one-bar builds (for whatever reason) will hurt their group by joining if Voltaic does its full damage on them. So on the one hand, if the mechanic doesn't do its full damage to one-bar/underleveled builds, then it can easily be cheesed. On the other, if it does do its full damage, then it punishes (in the case of Oakensoul) the thing that has arguably done the most good for accessibility combat-wise in the game's history, especially after the across-the-board nerfs in Update 35. I'd guess that this mechanic was designed long before they were thinking of making one-bar builds the go-to for accessibility, and now they're stuck either letting players cheese it or making their accessibility builds essentially backfire in this trial.

In testing before this patch, we found that it had nothing to do with Oakensoul or WW but it was anyone who didn't slot a backbar weapon who got a reduced value Voltaic Overload. It would continue to tick on those players for the full 10 seconds, but Voltaic on them would not do the damage that it normally would have (maybe around 25%) and did not hurt anyone else. Oakensoul/WW players who slotted a backbar weapon (which they couldn't use) got the regular ramping damage that could and did kill people, since they couldn't swap away. It was only about whether a backbar weapon was slotted or not.

It is also very easy to swap away from Voltaic without taking the first tick of damage. You get nearly a 2-second grace period before it hits you and then starts hitting others. The absolute earliest I've seen is 1.75 seconds.

Ah, I was mistaken then. First tick of damage’s amount of damage, not only getting the first tick. Regardless, it seemed intentional so I’m surprised it’s changed. And angered that it wasn’t mentioned in the patch notes if it was intentional (either now or before). I wonder if it has anything to do with barswapping with block or if it’s an intentional change. Regardless, it’s really weird that these things have to be figured out by trial and error (pun not intended). It’s not just a mechanic where the players figure out strats… especially because the only way to do the mechanic IS to barswap, so logically no barswap = can’t run CR in the minds of many. We need communication on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABbkhvYxWAQ

Nefas confirmed with devs that the change is intended and they just forgot to add it to the patch notes.

Thanks for the link! ZOS needs to say something on the forums about it though, maybe a notification when going into the trial, an in-game mail... something from them directly.

Most of my DPS are one bar heavy attack builds with Oakensoul. I have poor internet connection and these builds allow me to still do sufficient DPS. I personally have no problem with them making me suffer the consequences of my own choice when doing Cloudrest. I can take my DPS in that is 2 bar, or temporarily change up one of my one bar builds or I can choose to not do Cloudrest.