Cloudrest Overload Now Works On One Bar Players Again!

axi

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

axi wrote: »

It's more concering that there are people who are unhappy that ZoS fixed this. Seems like many people these days wants for things to be handled to them for free with little to none effort on their side.

People are not upset about it being fixed. They are upset because it is a dumb fix. There must have been a happy medium between, "Voltaic is too easy to survive for a one-bar build," and, "Voltaic is impossible to survive for a one-bar build." Just completely deleting one bar builds from Cloudrest is a lazy fix.

This was not a random stopgap patch they threw together in a hurry. It was a full Update that they spent 3 months on. They could have come up with a solution that forces one-bar builds to play the mechanic in a slightly different way. The mechanic is not really about bar-swapping. It is about limiting your skill choices and forcing you to not do your rotation out of muscle memory or it will wipe the group. Maybe make it where a fully-charged heavy attack under Voltaic wipes the group if you have only one bar? Or any kind of offensive skill use wipes the group if you have one-bar? It would have put one bar builds under similar mechanics and pressure as the bar swap mechanic.

The only thing that got deleted is a part of my comment where I described how to easily deal with current fix. It's not fix that is lazy it's people who refuse to adapt that are lazy. One bar builds were not completly deleted from Cloudrest. Oakensoul is not a one bar build it's just an item that empowers one bar builds but that doesn't mean You cannot play as one bar setup without oakensoul.

Devs did excatly what You are saying. They came up with a solution that forces one bar builds to play the mechanic in a slightly different way. The solution is simple. Unslot oakensoul and switch it to otther mythic or 2nd piece of monster set, use two excatly the same weapons and abilities on both bars and slot 1 ability from mages guild that will provide You with empower if Your class doesn't have decent ability like that. You will continue to perform one bar rotation as usual with the difference of one ability and ocasional bar swap. But I guess You are calling switching 1 ability as "limiting skill choices". Well guess what, adjusting Your skill bar to the content exists in this game since day 1. Muscle memory? You need muscle memory to perform static rotation with over 2 seconds intervals between each ability use and with like 3-4 abilities to manage?

Let me tell You what I will do on my sorc for example. First of all I will be using spell power potions which will provide me with most of the important offensive buffs lost from oakensoul. Right now for cloudrest I was slotting daedric prey, unstable wall of elements , volatile familar, tormentor and one ability was a flex spot (usually I slot there some defensive skill like vigor). Only thing I will do after the change will be switching prey to structured entropy. My rotation which was basically prey, blockade, familiar, prey , 2x blockade, will switch to entropy , blockade familiar, entropy, 2x blockade. That will allow me to keep up 100% uptime on empower. It will be literally the same rotaion in terms of buttons clicked so my muscle memory won't be in danger. I will loose some DPS but it's not an issue, my DPS was more than enough already, I was able to solo portals in vCR+1. It also won't be a big DPS loss. We are talking about something like 5%.

colossalvoids

maxjapank wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Anything that punishes players for their builds in unwarranted. Bad decision imo.

Seriously though, you can't expect having one exact build to work in every area of the game, especially one altering gameplay by that much. It's not a small one.

Oaken users have an option to alter their build by using a different mythic instead and having identical backbar to their front one, making mechanic still easier as they won't be stuck with a limited bar, as both would be the same and "complete" no matter what.

And what about werewolves?

It solely depends what difficulty you're talking about. You can be outhealed in normal, can turn from ww to your ordinary build or choose to not turn into at all as it's not about you alone, it's about the group in group content. You obey to the mechanics and rules there, if something isn't working or might cause potential issues you don't do that, or fairly expect a possible outcome. It's nothing new.

Hapexamendios wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Anything that punishes players for their builds in unwarranted. Bad decision imo.

Seriously though, you can't expect having one exact build to work in every area of the game, especially one altering gameplay by that much. It's not a small one.

Oaken users have an option to alter their build by using a different mythic instead and having identical backbar to their front one, making mechanic still easier as they won't be stuck with a limited bar, as both would be the same and "complete" no matter what.

The build works everywhere else just fine, so yes I should expect it to be fine everywhere. As far as the mechanic goes, punishing Oakensoul users is not acceptable and neither is putting the burden on the rest of the group by having the Oakensoul user ignored by the mechanic.

To me the best solution is to change the mechanic so it affects all party members the same no matter what the build. If you have any other ideas that won't punish anyone, I'd like to hear it.

It's an expectation problem then. Group content is different to solo and you're making decisions differently. Content is generally structured the way that you should change your builds from trial to trial or even from trash to each individual boss. You can't simply equip some set in stone build and walk through the game, it's the same for all the roles.

If that's accessibility talk still you are absolutely able to complete everything on normal with this, absolute most content on vet and HM (your damage cap absolutely makes that possible, even trifectas which are far from any accessibility needs btw) and it's still stays the ultimate item in your kit. Just not for ignoring one mechanics in this particular encounter anymore as developers never intended it to work like that apparently. You still have infinite sustain, superior defensive capabilities, way less stress factors and competitive DPS in a package.

My idea is to adapt to the content, as always, and not adapt content to your needs. It was unintentionally adapted (no coder was expecting a one bar in vCR at a time) and now... It's fixed.

Luth7

Heelie wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

The overload mechanic in Cloudrest that was bugged if you did'nt have a weapon slotted back bar now works again. You will wipe your group and die if you do not weapon swap back bar. This is probably the best news to come from this patch. As all players should deal with mechanics equally, no matter the build.

Source?

if you're a conspiracy theorist, shows that no weapon is back bar.

Asking for sources of claims some random person made on the internet doesn't make one a "conspiracy theorist".

Ph1p

virtus753 wrote: »

Does that mean players under level 15 will also wipe their group because they cannot slot a second weapon at all?

If I remember correctly, players who don't have a second bar unlocked couldn't get Voltaic Overload at all so far. Looking at the addendum to the patch notes, that has not changed:

"Voltaic Current no longer functions differently for players with a second weapon bar unlocked, and are in Werewolf form or have the Oakensoul item equipped."

In other words, the mechanic now works the same for Werewolves and Oakensoul users, as long as you have two weapon bars unlocked. If you don't, it still treats you differently.

virtus753

Ph1p wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Does that mean players under level 15 will also wipe their group because they cannot slot a second weapon at all?

If I remember correctly, players who don't have a second bar unlocked couldn't get Voltaic Overload at all so far. Looking at the addendum to the patch notes, that has not changed:

"Voltaic Current no longer functions differently for players with a second weapon bar unlocked, and are in Werewolf form or have the Oakensoul item equipped."

In other words, the mechanic now works the same for Werewolves and Oakensoul users, as long as you have two weapon bars unlocked. If you don't, it still treats you differently.

That’s why I was asking - and I’m glad the note specifies.

Whenever ZOS changes anything, it’s always a question whether related things have been changed too. It’s why accurate patch notes are so critical, and I’m glad they got updated, even though there are several other changes I know of that are still missing.

RevJJ

This is just another example of the sledgehammer approach ZOS takes with almost everything. It went from “Oakensoul users are not affected by this mechanic” to “Oakensoul users will wipe the group without any chance to counter it”. How can anyone think that is ok? It should be possible to find a solution that is somewhere in the middle.

TaSheen

Yeah.... the "bludgeon" approach is.... um.... way out in left field. Serious. I wind up shaking my head a lot these days.

axi

RevJJ wrote: »

This is just another example of the sledgehammer approach ZOS takes with almost everything. It went from “Oakensoul users are not affected by this mechanic” to “Oakensoul users will wipe the group without any chance to counter it”. How can anyone think that is ok? It should be possible to find a solution that is somewhere in the middle.

I already provided solution that is in the middle. Unslot oakensoul adjust 2 item pieces and 1 ability and play as one bar setup but without oakensoul in Cloudrest. Oakensoul is not a definition of one bar setup it's just addition to them.

Treeshka

There seems to be a lot of debate and somewhat hate going on with this sort of builds.

Simple solution would be adding weapon sheathe mechanic for Overload, where you can either swap your bar or sheathe your current bar to avoid damage. So if you are locked to one bar you can just sheathe and if you are not you can just swap to other bar and continue.

For Werewolves not sure. It should not target Werewolves in my opinion.

Raikiki

Greetings from Germany.
Yesterday we went to Cloudrest and tested differents things.
Onebar is still working as long as there are 2 players which plays with 2 bars.
The game will now prioritize players with 2 bars, so they will get the Overload mechanic all the time.
Since in most raids Tanks and Healers will play with 2 bars they will suffer from it and get the mechanic all the time.

There will be 2 Overloads everytime the mechanic pops, so having atleast 2 people which have slotted a weapon on their second bar will prevent onebar players from getting it.

But as u maybe already notice....there will be another huge problem with it.
It will be a lot of stress for the players who will get the mechanic all the time.There will be people fur sure which wont play vcr with onebar players due to this circumstances

Sry for my english.
Hope u could understand

Kind regards,
EureFloheit

Runefang

Lots of white knighting here, people trying to defend Oakensoul users many of which probably never even go into vCR to begin with.

Vet trials are difficult, hard modes even more so. They should require you to follow mechanics.

Agenericname

Raikiki wrote: »

Greetings from Germany.
Yesterday we went to Cloudrest and tested differents things.
Onebar is still working as long as there are 2 players which plays with 2 bars.
The game will now prioritize players with 2 bars, so they will get the Overload mechanic all the time.
Since in most raids Tanks and Healers will play with 2 bars they will suffer from it and get the mechanic all the time.

There will be 2 Overloads everytime the mechanic pops, so having atleast 2 people which have slotted a weapon on their second bar will prevent onebar players from getting it.

But as u maybe already notice....there will be another huge problem with it.
It will be a lot of stress for the players who will get the mechanic all the time.There will be people fur sure which wont play vcr with onebar players due to this circumstances

Sry for my english.
Hope u could understand

Kind regards,
EureFloheit

That seems to be whats happening.

Im not sure that pushing the mechanic onto 2 bar builds by simply existing in the trial is going to spread peace and harmony very far.

JJMaxx1980

Everyone arguing that mechanics aren’t meant to be ignored… wait until they find out that people make builds that skip mechanics altogether. #NerfEverything

SirLeeMinion

So, we'll be back to progression groups requiring a qualifying two bar parse in addition to a one bar parse- just in case they run vCR. Result: the end-game vet trials community shrinks, just as it was starting to recover.

spartaxoxo

Runefang wrote: »

Lots of white knighting here, people trying to defend Oakensoul users many of which probably never even go into vCR to begin with.

Vet trials are difficult, hard modes even more so. They should require you to follow mechanics.

And equally, they should be followable by everyone. There shouldn't be a mythic that lets you skip or completely disabled you from following it.

ETA

They need to make to so Oakensoul forces your backbar to have the same skill as the front bar, so that Oakensoul users can switch bars but don't gain the benefits of having different skills on two bars (same thing should be true of werewolfs). They make the second weapon the Oakensoul too as overridden thing so that you don't get the benefits from your backbar weapons stats either. Same functionality as it has now, but physically able to swap weapons if they need too.

Rageypoo

Personally, I think if you don't have a back bar equipped, it doesn't make sense for the game to force a swap mechanic.

Heelie

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

So, we'll be back to progression groups requiring a qualifying two bar parse in addition to a one bar parse- just in case they run vCR. Result: the end-game vet trials community shrinks, just as it was starting to recover.

Most groups are one trial progs these days don't think it's going to be that bad. And as said earlier in the thread nothing stops one bar players from playing without Oakensoul with two identical bars.

Auldwulfe

Marcusorion1 wrote: »

From addendum to patch notes:

ZOS_Kevin admin

Cloudrest

Voltaic Current no longer functions differently for players with a second weapon bar unlocked, and are in Werewolf form or have the Oakensoul item equipped.

Edited by ZOS_Kevin on March 15, 2023 1:45PM

So, make cheap throw away characters, do it before level 15... once the stickerbook is full, it ceases to exist for any real reason.

And that's if you feel you must have the junk in there, or are an excessive completionist on the stickerbook.....
There are so many sets that duplicate the effects, though... it's no longer really necessary

Auldwulfe

Dragonredux

Soarora wrote: »

axi wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am surprised by the amount of players happy about less people being able to do endgame content.
And what’s up with all the oak-ring hate lately.

It's more that people are happy everyone now needs the same awerness of mechanics. Being able to completly ignore one of the most important mechanics in that particular trial doesn't sound right. Accesibility is one thing but fair playing field in terms of learning mechanics is another.

I wouldn't call it one of the most important mechanics. I think the main part of difficulty that comes from overload is... well being forced onto one bar... which wws and oakensoul already do? The "don't barswap" part is covered by an addon on PC. The "do barswap" part is really not difficult at all.

I can be optimistic and say well maybe this is so people theorycraft 2-bar HA groups instead of relying on oakensoul (empowering grasp still gives empower, does it not?). But I'm not certain that's why. On its own I'm not sure if we'll ever know why.

Empowering Grasp
Solar Barrage
Molten Armaments
Ambush

And if you're a Sorcerer or Warden just use Entropy or Fire Rune every 10 seconds.

2 bar HA builds existed before this. Most Oakensouls don't put in the effort or realize what buff is giving them that power.

RevJJ

axi wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

This is just another example of the sledgehammer approach ZOS takes with almost everything. It went from “Oakensoul users are not affected by this mechanic” to “Oakensoul users will wipe the group without any chance to counter it”. How can anyone think that is ok? It should be possible to find a solution that is somewhere in the middle.

I already provided solution that is in the middle. Unslot oakensoul adjust 2 item pieces and 1 ability and play as one bar setup but without oakensoul in Cloudrest. Oakensoul is not a definition of one bar setup it's just addition to them.

That’s not a solution though, that’s a workaround. Because the result is still that Oakensoul users cannot do the trial or they will wipe the group. ZOS should be the ones to come up with a solution where Oakensoul users have to do something during this mechanic to prevent them from wiping the group.

Some people are acting like this is a super difficult mechanic or that it has a massive effect on DPS. You swap and then you’re on your other bar for 10 seconds. It’s not that hard, you just need to do it on time is all.

Aektann

I think we've come to a situation where there are too many one-button warriors in the game. Who are too used to easy wins. Half of those wins shouldn't have happened.

irswat

A mirror bar minus all the buffs is a solution

Ragnarok0130

RevJJ wrote: »

axi wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

This is just another example of the sledgehammer approach ZOS takes with almost everything. It went from “Oakensoul users are not affected by this mechanic” to “Oakensoul users will wipe the group without any chance to counter it”. How can anyone think that is ok? It should be possible to find a solution that is somewhere in the middle.

I already provided solution that is in the middle. Unslot oakensoul adjust 2 item pieces and 1 ability and play as one bar setup but without oakensoul in Cloudrest. Oakensoul is not a definition of one bar setup it's just addition to them.

That’s not a solution though, that’s a workaround. Because the result is still that Oakensoul users cannot do the trial or they will wipe the group. ZOS should be the ones to come up with a solution where Oakensoul users have to do something during this mechanic to prevent them from wiping the group.

Some people are acting like this is a super difficult mechanic or that it has a massive effect on DPS. You swap and then you’re on your other bar for 10 seconds. It’s not that hard, you just need to do it on time is all.

That is literally the solution normally expected of two bar raiders and the only real solution for one bar users in this case - one bar builds aren't synonymous with oakensoul like the previous posted stated; it's a subset of one bar builds so they can still use a one bar build they just have to adapt it and not use the offending mythic on that specific boss. You adjust your build to the trial by removing oakensoul; you don't whine on the forums that the trial doesn't allow you to run your preferred build if you want to run the content.

On the same exact boss that Oakensoul doesn't work on in vCR I have to adjust my normal two bar healer build so I have an adequate amount of group heals on my back bar for when I have to swap bars and can't swap back until the mechanic is over while still being expected to heal the group. I don't throw a temper tantrum that I can't use my normal back bar skills, I slot what I need and do my job. This is no different than what is expected of Oakensoul users for this boss. What this is starting to look like is a bunch of people who got over by bypassing a trial mechanic via an unintended exploit getting mad that all trial mechanics now apply to them like it does the rest of the raid group.

Oakensoul users can still do Cloud rest, they just have to remove the mythic for this one boss and the hardmode which includes this boss. Altering one's build to the trial/boss/trash pulls is basic raiding; it's not singling out Oakensoul users.

axi

RevJJ wrote: »

axi wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

This is just another example of the sledgehammer approach ZOS takes with almost everything. It went from “Oakensoul users are not affected by this mechanic” to “Oakensoul users will wipe the group without any chance to counter it”. How can anyone think that is ok? It should be possible to find a solution that is somewhere in the middle.

I already provided solution that is in the middle. Unslot oakensoul adjust 2 item pieces and 1 ability and play as one bar setup but without oakensoul in Cloudrest. Oakensoul is not a definition of one bar setup it's just addition to them.

That’s not a solution though, that’s a workaround. Because the result is still that Oakensoul users cannot do the trial or they will wipe the group. ZOS should be the ones to come up with a solution where Oakensoul users have to do something during this mechanic to prevent them from wiping the group.

Some people are acting like this is a super difficult mechanic or that it has a massive effect on DPS. You swap and then you’re on your other bar for 10 seconds. It’s not that hard, you just need to do it on time is all.

You know what sounds like a workaround? Changing a mechanic in 5 years old trial because of 1 item in the game only because players using it find it problematic to easily adapt to the content.

Hmm, I cannot use trassian stranglers everywhere because I cannot generate stacks fast enough or I will die due to not enough health. ZoS should change every content in the game so I could charge stacks more easily and they should also lower incoming dmg in every type of content so my lower health will no longer be an issue. /s

Hmm I cannot use harpooners wedding kilt everywhere because in many instances stack will drop of faster than they're charging. ZoS should create new system where You cannot take direct dmg more than once per 10 seconds so I can keep my stacks charged up./s

Wait what? You're saying I can drop those mythic in places they are not working and adjust my setup accordingly? That's not a solution that's a workaround.../s

Honestly though, oakensoul like most of the mythics have benefits and drawbacks and since this is by far the strongest item in the game in terms of benefits given to the player in PvE to the point that even the supposed drawback which is locked second bar is becoming a benefit for many people I think that not being able to wear that item in one specific place is more than a fair trade-off. Not being able to swap is a price You are paying when You slot oakensoul in exchange for all benefits it provides. Asking developer to change overload mechanic is basically asking for workaround so You won't have to pay the price while getting all the benefits.

Sheezabeast

irswat wrote: »

A mirror bar minus all the buffs is a solution

That wouldn't be balanced, with abilities like Frags, and the buff from Dawnbreaker.

rpa

So do I understand right? Suppose I use oakensoul build and have no weapon equipped in backbar. I should not get the swap or wipe. If I slot WW ultimate with same build, and go in WW form, I still should not get swap or wipe mechanic. As long there are 2 people with 2 bar build in group.
Just asking because I have 100ms..10+s lag in my end so i can not reliably do bar swaps or builds requiting weaving.