TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

40k HP, 30k resistances, still got 3 tapped. Yes, I know how to dodge and block.

No investment in crit resist. Surprised it took 3

Meanwhile, meta sets like Rallying Cry and Maras give some crit resist. Not sure why people chose to ignore it altogether and sit at base, then blame abilities being OP.

I've been against an AW nerf and for toning down their damage buffs of soul harvest and hidden; but as I see this, I am really feeling it's more on the targets.

This is what I mean by we are forced to run meta sets like rallying. As a magsorc who likes to run shield builds im forced to run magicka sets for big shields. But since everyone is playing nb im in a bad spot. And all it takes is for me to not dodge one well timed bow and im down to 5% hp. And with the healing they have it would take 500 overload to have pressure on them.

You don't have to use those though. Impen trait is there. I'm CP, there is a star. There are other sets with crit resist. And those resistances were applied to shields as well so effectively adds shield strength albeit not in it's tooltip.

Feels like ppl just want to be good without thinking tbh,

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise should have a stacking cost like Streak

On top of an unblockable aoe stun with a damage u mean, right ?

No. Streak received the stacking cost back in 2015 because it was too evasive, like Roll Dodge, a player could become a massive troll with it.

For some weird reason, Shadowy Disguise and Mirror Image, two equally if not more, evasive abilities, avoided that change.
.

It's weird reason called "tons of counters". You can come back with all of yours qq right after adding potion/set/skill that will turn off your streak completely

Having potions and abilities pull from stealth is what most would consider a bandaid fix to the problem, implemented back when Shieldbreaker still existed.

Players should not have to cater their potions, abilities, or sets to have to deal with 1/6 classes, as it’s the only class with such a demand.

If stacking cost increases were to be implemented, those “counters” that don’t come attached to every build could go, and that’s fine. There is no potion or ability to interrupt the Mirrage Image & Shadowy Disguise interaction from MagBlade. A good one will quite literally never die while weaving in the best bursts in the game.

Let’s not play pretend that it’s fine; or that it’s not overperforming. Nightblades are a difficult class to learn, but once mastered they are extremely problematic to the overall balance of this game.

Edit; any gap closer in the game turns off Streak completely, my class has a built-in one with Toppling Charge, yours too w/Ambush.

You literally just said people shouldnt have to use counters. There is no point to argue or debate with you anymore if thats your attitude.

I wish they would buff sorcs so maybe there would be less nerf everybody else threads.

OBJnoob wrote: »

Things just shouldn't hit for 20+k. Period. We can debate for years about what exact change would tickle us the most, but in the meantime just fix IT. It being the thing that hits for more than 20k of course.

Literally just lower the tooltip. All this theorizing about passives and percent buffs is just theorizing. In practice, nobody ever Incaps you with Concealed on their bar and chooses to Dizzy you for +30%. Or any other skill for that matter. Only AW.

Why? Because dizzy has a cast time? Because NBs don't have access to other classes abilities? No. Because it's the hardest hitting ability in the game.

20k+ is with max Crit Damage, 6.5k+ Weapon Damage, and a bunch of modifiers. It used to hit for 14k AT BEST. The tooltip hasn't changed for years, we can be certain on that.

I'd say make it harder for every class to stack Crit Damage just like how stacking Crit Chance was made harder. I can reach 101% Crit Damage on any class without investing into a single 5 piece set. On NB it's 111%. Make it harder to reach this value and you won't see 20k+ bow procs anymore.

OBJnoob wrote: »

@StaticWave I played a magblade for like 4 days about 3 weeks ago. Put him in stygian (rings had just been in the golden,) and rallying cry. Didn't build into crit damage at all, but hit 20+k bows about twice a night. It isn't as hard as you think. And while I'm aware these targets "weren't built properly," it doesn't mean they were bad players. Some people complain about the tank meta but exploit it at the same time. Everybody else "isn't built properly." The truth is they're probably built the way we all used to be built when AW hit for 14k. Add 10k damage... Add 10k max HP.

The tooltip for Assassin’s Will hasn’t changed though, so it can’t be the ability. It’s probably a bunch of other things power-creeping this ability up.

I think it would be best to have 2 people test this ability’s damage with meta sets using CMX addon to record data. I don’t have the meta sets unfortunately, but it would help pinpoint the issue more.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I can't dispute that point-- you're right.

But in the same vein it's worth noting that the increase from 14k to 20+ is more than 10% so it can't be chalked up to Concealed either. Concealed is definitely part of the power creep you're referencing, but only one small part.

I support lowering the tooltip because it's just the easier option. I've never seen a sorc, templar, necro, or Warden thread detailing a long list of small "perfect" changes be satisfied. Asking for one change that will definitely work has a higher success rate.

Most of us agree what what the problem is. Fewer of us agree on the solution. The more variables we introduce in the solution the more possible points of disagreement there can be.

The things you're not accounting for (in addition to concealed) are hybridization giving access to min-max armor weight choices, and merciless resolve hitting substantially harder than relentless focus.

You didn't get hit hard by merciless resolve pre-hybridization because magicka nightblade was one of, if not the worst class in the game. Stamina nightblade hit significantly harder, and they always used relentless focus as merciless did not scale for them.

The main culprit is the concealed modifier, but the remaining difference can be directly attributed to hybridization enabling merciless over relentless for every build.

The 2 other "effective" classes have huge mitigation to ranged projectiles if they chose to use them. Sorc, Templar, and now Necro; you pretty much have to completely outplay the NB anyway.

KingLewie_III wrote: »

I really don't have an issue with AW. It definitely hits hard, but Nightblade being an "Assassin" class it should be able to dish out serious damage. What annoys me is its ability to essentially perma cloak, coupled with the fact that stealth detection skills don't work how their tool tips read. At best, when you cast camo hunter and reveal a player, they'll immediately cast cloak again and you'll get this "flicker" type effect where you see them but can't target them because they're flickering in and out of stealth. Detect pots work well, but I find myself having to run Spell Power pots on several specs to play the class at a competitive level, so detects aren't really an option. I also don't think you should have to run a specific potion just for one class in the game that can abuse stealth mechanics.

Logically, I think cloak should have a ramping cost like streak and reveal abilities should actually function how their tool tips read. When you take away the crutch of stealth, Nightblade becomes a class with a pretty high skill curve and should be rewarded with high damage.

Agreed, NB would be far less frustrating to play against if the detection abilities worked as reliably as detection potions. Maybe its the same issue as targeting where the speed of the NB desyncs the position that is causing these problems, in which case maybe increase the radius of detection to 15-20m and make it last 8-10 seconds instead of the current 5m radius that lasts 4 seconds to make them more reliable and account for the positional desync issues plaguing cyrodiil at the moment.

Failing that (or even adding on top of the detection buffs), making cloak have a ramping cost is just common sense at this point. It's such a strong mechanic that the NB is the only class that has consistent, on demand, access to, that it's surprising that it never got a ramping cost when the class got a complete overhaul of its healing and mitigation capabilities back in U34.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I am definitely more of a fan of NB either not having the toe to toe capability of other classes like they really do now; or cloak/shadow image tools to counter being more reliable outside of pots; over taking their damage away. But I'm cautious either way as we could get real close to having DK be the only way to play.

Warden is...OK but there is a lot of poo. I know; "easier to nerf 2 than buff 4" but I'd rather start with making the other classes fun and capable then see where NBad DK stand then as to not continue this mass destruction of classes. I'm not saying that as a DK nor a NB. I want to play my Templar. I'm just sick of how far it goes

Personally, I've never felt like Invisibility should exist in a class tool kit in PVP. It opens the door for some really toxic play styles and exponentially lowers the skill requirement to play the class. Which shouldn't be an option when the class has the capability of two tapping just about anything it comes across. Especially now that it has such a nice burst heal, and even more mobility with Concealed Weapon and Refreshing Path. At the very least, I don't think cloak should work while DOTS are ticking on you.

Wardens have a bit too much survivability with Polar Wind, as health scaling heals have always been problematic. Outside of that, I think Warden should be used as the measuring stick to bring the other classes up to.

Templar really just needs Jabs and POTL to hit harder.

Sorceror is tricky, as it's really the only class left with vastly different play styles between Mag and Stam. If you make everything scale off weapon/spell damage, a Melee spec is always going to be better.

Necro just needs better offensive skills, and access to basic buffs like Major Sorcery/Brutality. The class has been tied to Spell/Weapon Power Pots since its inception because if you slot something like Degen, you can't have Major breach, etc. No other class has to make that sacrifice just to get on even playing ground with everyone else.

DK is absolutely loaded and is arguably the easiest class to play. When one class represents 50% of the PVP population, there's an issue. This is in my opinion, the only class that needs brought down a bit. It needs to struggle with Sustain the way ZOS has cited that it was designed to.

For the record, I have no hopes that anything will get better as the direction of the game continues to focus more on dumbing itself down rather than rewarding anyone for learning how to play.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Just wanted to point out the irony of a thread calling for AW to be nerfed turning into a nerf cloak thread when the NB build that has the hardest hitting AW is not even running cloak.

I don't think it has to go either way. The buff work from leaving invisibility as much as it does speed. Path just makes it easier for uptime. Either way; there's little logic in saying if you just throw cloak on there, the builds magically weaker

Stealth is still one of the best forms of defense in the game even with all the available counters. Stealth + fast movement speed = best defense for solo PvP.

Outside of that though, AW isn't that bad to deal with. It's Concealed hitting 9-10k crits that you should be worried about lol.