Nerf assassins will

AndreNoir

KingLewie_III wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise should have a stacking cost like Streak

On top of an unblockable aoe stun with a damage u mean, right ?

No. Streak received the stacking cost back in 2015 because it was too evasive, like Roll Dodge, a player could become a massive troll with it.

For some weird reason, Shadowy Disguise and Mirror Image, two equally if not more, evasive abilities, avoided that change.
.

It's weird reason called "tons of counters". You can come back with all of yours qq right after adding potion/set/skill that will turn off your streak completely

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is overperforming but you're asking for the wrong nerfs. Assassin's Will does not need a nerf. These are the changes that need to happen:

1) Remove 10% unnamed damage done from Concealed Weapon
2) Remove 100% dodge cost reduction from Phantasmal Escape
3) Increase base crit resist again, or make it harder to stack crit damage
4) Remove other sources of survivability for NB now that they have a burst heal

Next time just post: 1-4) nerf it back to unplayable trash

When was nightblade "unplayable trash"? It's been a top 3 class in almost every meta in the last 5 years. If you want unplayable trash, go get on Necro, Sorc, or Templar.

Oh please... over 5 years.... unplayable mNB at the time of necrowardencancer meta, one_button_wonder_ that_can_tank_a_raid and OFC the most absurd i'm stacking mana and *** on everyone meta

Caribou77

While a clearer/more apparent visual tell to help counter AW is a good idea in theory, pvp is so buggy/laggy that I would not trust this option to work.

Currently, the warning/tell on the Scavenging Demise set (bow gankers fave) works less that 50% of the time, and its tell is very apparent (red circle growing around your feet). The final hit from this often comes with no warning at all.

Also, Lingering Flare & Inner Light do not prevent NBs from immediately recloaking.

So, in a practical sense, I think they just need to reduce AW damage.

I don’t trust more nuanced approaches to work.

A loosely-related side note: Exactly what is the area of impact affected by Dragon Leap? I’ve been well out if its trajectory And roll dodged and Still get knocked back at what looks to be a range of 40-50 meters. Is this info stated anywhere?

So why does Dawnbreaker ultimate hit a sliver and Dragon Leap hit half a football field? By what standard are these ultimates balanced?

Panderbander

Caribou77 wrote: »

A loosely-related side note: Exactly what is the area of impact affected by Dragon Leap? I’ve been well out if its trajectory And roll dodged and Still get knocked back at what looks to be a range of 40-50 meters. Is this info stated anywhere?

So why does Dawnbreaker ultimate hit a sliver and Dragon Leap hit half a football field? By what standard are these ultimates balanced?

This largely comes down to server latency issues, which is a large part why abilities like spec bow chunking out so much health can be so problematic.

Caribou77

Thanks Pander, that was my suspicion, and supports my concern that a better visual tell for AW is unlikely to be an effective solution.

It’s really sad that one needs to consider latency as a significant factor in tuning/improving the game.

Makes feedback in these forums feel even more futile.

OBJnoob

A better visual tell won't really help on the class that can be invisible. I find the audible tell to be sufficient along those lines. It just does too much damage.

Wuuffyy

Panderbander wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

40k HP, 30k resistances, still got 3 tapped. Yes, I know how to dodge and block.

No investment in crit resist. Surprised it took 3

Meanwhile, meta sets like Rallying Cry and Maras give some crit resist. Not sure why people chose to ignore it altogether and sit at base, then blame abilities being OP.

I've been against an AW nerf and for toning down their damage buffs of soul harvest and hidden; but as I see this, I am really feeling it's more on the targets.

I took a 23k spec bow last night while solo with Rallying Cry procced. That's an invalid argument.

Then there are many, many other issues with your build. Same type of person I’d hit for a 17k frag or a 13k dizzy or a 20k+ exe. Just an fyi

Remathilis

"Nurf that class who killed me plz."

TechMaybeHic

Remathilis wrote: »

"Nurf that class who killed me plz."

I must admit; I do get suspicion that it's DKs and Wardens that are generally tanky, not happy they can be deleted in the brief window their defense goes down.

OBJnoob

As someone that has been playing a Warden for 3+ months I can promise you that isn't the case. While I may lose in duels to some meta refreshing path NBs I don't find the open world variety poses much of a threat to me.

They do however delete the lesser specs and players with ease, as well as anyone that just happens to enjoy playing a damage spec or isn't crutching on maras or rallying cry.

The existence of NBs' ability to do 20+k damage in a single hit is why we are in a tank meta. It isn't DKs and Wardens suffering for it-- it is DKs and Wardens surviving it.

Anyway it really doesn't matter which came first, the chicken or the egg. The chicken is crap and so is the egg. Stop the ONLY class that one-shots 50% of the player base and watch people build for less HP.

My opinion is formed from things I hear, things I see from a third person perspective happening AROUND my warden, and my own experience playing NB. I am not a particularly good NB nor do I have a lot of experience playing it. Unfortunately for everybody I killed, any halfwit can slap some sets on and hit 20+k spec bows. It is completely normal. And not everybody that dies this way is a bad player.

OBJnoob

Also, pretending that it is in any way hard to build or keep track of AW stacks is silly. It's about as hard to keep that up as it is to make sure you have major brutality. Completely basic and easy. LONG duration and SIMPLE requirement.

Killing people this way takes no talent at all. No, knowing how to run away doesn't count as a talent. And no, knowing how to locate squishy players isn't a talent either.

StaticWave

OBJnoob wrote: »

@StaticWave agree with most of what you said but not increase everyone's base crit resist again. If a suggestion like this is what comes to mind then we do in fact need to nerf NB damage.

I can get on board, overall, with the mentality that NB should be an offensive powerhouse at the expense of defensive capabilities. But when we decide EVERYBODY else needs more innate defense just to deal with it then we have obviously crossed a line that we should not have crossed.

This isn't NBs -v- everyone else. Wardens still fight DKs. DKs still fight sorcs. Sorcs still fight templars. And we still have a tank meta, with more sets every day offering crit resist. The answer is NOT buff defense.

Crit damage is still too easy to obtain anyways. Remove that 10% crit dmg passive from NB and I still get 101% crit damage without sacrificing any 5 piece sets.

Point #3 in my previous comment stated “either increase base crit resist OR make it harder to reach the crit damage cap”. If you think increasing the base crit is not a good idea, then we have to make it harder to reach the crit damage cap.

Thecompton73

Panderbander wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

40k HP, 30k resistances, still got 3 tapped. Yes, I know how to dodge and block.

No investment in crit resist. Surprised it took 3

Meanwhile, meta sets like Rallying Cry and Maras give some crit resist. Not sure why people chose to ignore it altogether and sit at base, then blame abilities being OP.

I've been against an AW nerf and for toning down their damage buffs of soul harvest and hidden; but as I see this, I am really feeling it's more on the targets.

I took a 23k spec bow last night while solo with Rallying Cry procced. That's an invalid argument.

I hate getting killed by the meta build NB's with the incap spec bow combo but I'm not gonna complain about a build that can actually get a kill in this boring tank meta. The only thing I think is out of whack with those builds is how freaking tanky they are while being able to do that much damage. I've seen at least 15 different people use that build to survive getting hammered by 4, 5, 6 or more people as they build up ulti's and bow proc's and take them out 1 by 1. When the build makes that many people into 1vX champs it needs it's survivability knocked down a notch or two, nerfing the damage just turns it into another troll build.

ForumBully

On general principle, when there are any possibilities of correcting an imbalance with buffs elsewhere I'd prefer that to "nerf anything". Spec bow is a pain to build up, especially in open world, its terrible in any lag, and it's one of the most predictable bursts in the world...and the most easily dodged.
So that's a no from me, dog.

MEBengalsFan2001

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Honestly, the best solution I can think of is to make the buff from Concealed count as Major Berserk, so it can't stack with stuff like Sea-Serpent's (Hence nerfing the total damage done by 10%). It would remove synergy with the set Kinras for PvE, but Pillar is already better usually. After that, increasing all player's base-critical resistance would be quite beneficial, or just giving more classes access to a crit resistance buff.

I am tired of all of the nerfs to classes, why don't we counter Nightblade's power by buffing other classes to fight back?

honestly just do this, make the concealed buff into major berserk so it doesn't stack and that would be enough. Still very strong, but not overtuned.

And completely agree, DK already matches NB for overall power, wardens do currently (for pvp) but are getting nerfed a bit, meanwhile sorcs, plars and cros just can't catch a break at the moment. Bring those 3 up to the same level as DK/NB and don't take wardens down.

I keep hear bring everyone up and reduce healing to the ground. How about bring everyone to a mid point between where templar, sorc, nerco are and DK, NB and Wardens are. Than once that mid point is established reduce healing. This way we don't break PVE for PVP play or vice versa. I for one would be ok with reduction in buffs to DK, NB, and Wardens and add some buffs to Templars, Sorc and Necro. This would fix the disparity between the classes. After that healing could be adjusted. And finally the biggest thing I think needs to be incorporated in all content that is not overland how a role impacts your stats in dungeons, trails, and PVP zones.

DPS: Get a small bonus to their damage status and pen stats but take a penalty to their resistance and healing out potential.
Tanks: Get a small reduction to their healing out and damage out potential but take a slight bump to their healing in and resistance.
Healers: Damage output and resistance is reduced but they get a small bump to recovery and healing output.

Roles should matter making it harder for players in PVE to run 1 tank and 3 DPS through dungeons and in PVP roles should matter and make an impact so you can't be tanky one instance and than turn around and kill a group of players just as quick.

Mayrael

Panderbander wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

40k HP, 30k resistances, still got 3 tapped. Yes, I know how to dodge and block.

No investment in crit resist. Surprised it took 3

Meanwhile, meta sets like Rallying Cry and Maras give some crit resist. Not sure why people chose to ignore it altogether and sit at base, then blame abilities being OP.

I've been against an AW nerf and for toning down their damage buffs of soul harvest and hidden; but as I see this, I am really feeling it's more on the targets.

I took a 23k spec bow last night while solo with Rallying Cry procced. That's an invalid argument.

And I literally never got hit for more than 11-12k with bow proc and I never play tank builds.

Edit:
Just a comment to my response above: It is my word vs yours. We can push forth and back and it will lead to nowhere unless we start to talking in resonable manner. Show us vid of such bow hit on you with at least 10s of fight before hit, maybe death recap.

I'm asking about this because people very often show fully buffed stats of their character but when in PvP situation they get (especially the ones with less experience) a tunnel vision. They focus on finishing off their opponent who went low on health and they forget to keep their defences up. If your target uses sets like Titanborn and is at the same time vampire, despite being low on health it is him who is controlling situation. Also there are % mitigations and damage modifiers that are not included in stats window which may affect your build more than best stats window.

So stats are not everything, only complete picture matters.

LukosCreyden

Threads that start with "nerf" and end with a skill or class name should be insta-deleted by forum moderator bots.

Sun7dance

The Nightblade's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness.
The burst is there, but it doesn't hit at the same time (except with proc sets) and that's very important in PvP.
3x5k Damage per second is much more effective than 1x10k.
So if you can't do any damage for even two or three seconds, then your opponents heal up because the Nightblade has less dots to keep up the pressure.

Btw the spectral bow is totally buggy in PvP.
So you often recast the focus and waste so much time!
In the video you can see that i recast the focus two times. Firstly because I thought the focus had simply run out and secondly to fire the bow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PymuodIE7oo

Mayrael

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

20k bow means you would receive around 10k damage from any regular spamable and that's a fact. If you receive such damage from regular spamable you should be more focused on improving your build than on nerfing other classes.

Maybe just maybe get a PvP build... OP joined march 2022 so for me it's a very fresh player and that's the reason of this whole thread. I played mag sorc for years, yes the class is not what it used to be but NB is also only a shadow of past glory.

Question, is that "joined the forums or joined the game?

If you're basing them being a new player just because they only recently joined the forums, you're going to be way off there.

Next, a 20k bow is very common right now, especially on PC NA but even on other servers where players are generally tankier, with all of the unique passive bonuses to damage that NB gets, bow hits (especially crits) insanely hard even if its tooltip at rest is nothing to write home about.
Spec bows generally get the following buffs to their at rest tooltip which is about 1.5 times higher at base than all other delayed burst in the game:
+20% from incap
+10% from concealed
+10% from sea serpents major berserk
+430 base weapon/spell damage from major courage
+300 base weapon/spell damage from the stacks
+20% from major sorcery/brutality
+10% from minor sorcery/brutality (not as common, but still there if they are grouped with DK or plar)
+215 base weapon/spell damage from minor courage
+5% from minor berserk (camo hunter)

That's a total of +945 raw weapon/spell damage (translates to roughly +34% not counting the extra scaling this raw damage gives to the other percentage modifiers) with additional +65-75% from percentage modifiers and this is all before accounting for crit modifiers which many raise to near cap being a +125% damage increase.

On an ability that tooltips at rest for 10k (pretty standard for other class burst abilities, while NB tooltip at rest for generally 13k+ AW) that is going to be 21k tool tip easily when buffed up (which it is when it is used) which if that crits at/near the 125% crit damage cap is essentially a 47k tooltip on assassins will if it had the same damage as other regular "delayed burst" abilities.

Assuming 30k resistances (45% mitigation), no breach, no pen and base crit resist (20% mitigation) it will hit for nearly 21k (20.79k) in actual damage against someone who is not blocking the ability (i.e. if they are stunned from incap/off balance medium weave etc).

In saying this, I don't think the ability itself should get nerfed, simply make concealed weapons bonus into the named buff major berserk to prevent it stacking with all the other buffs and this will bring it back into line with other burst.

Do you know how many GCD's and timers you need to manage to have all those buffs on top of defending and at the same time managing bow proc counter? If someone is able to line up all those buffs and then land very slow projectile with probably the loudest sound cue on you he deserves to deal a lot of damage to you. Just saying.

Turtle_Bot

Mayrael wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

20k bow means you would receive around 10k damage from any regular spamable and that's a fact. If you receive such damage from regular spamable you should be more focused on improving your build than on nerfing other classes.

Maybe just maybe get a PvP build... OP joined march 2022 so for me it's a very fresh player and that's the reason of this whole thread. I played mag sorc for years, yes the class is not what it used to be but NB is also only a shadow of past glory.

Question, is that "joined the forums or joined the game?

If you're basing them being a new player just because they only recently joined the forums, you're going to be way off there.

Next, a 20k bow is very common right now, especially on PC NA but even on other servers where players are generally tankier, with all of the unique passive bonuses to damage that NB gets, bow hits (especially crits) insanely hard even if its tooltip at rest is nothing to write home about.
Spec bows generally get the following buffs to their at rest tooltip which is about 1.5 times higher at base than all other delayed burst in the game:
+20% from incap
+10% from concealed
+10% from sea serpents major berserk
+430 base weapon/spell damage from major courage
+300 base weapon/spell damage from the stacks
+20% from major sorcery/brutality
+10% from minor sorcery/brutality (not as common, but still there if they are grouped with DK or plar)
+215 base weapon/spell damage from minor courage
+5% from minor berserk (camo hunter)

That's a total of +945 raw weapon/spell damage (translates to roughly +34% not counting the extra scaling this raw damage gives to the other percentage modifiers) with additional +65-75% from percentage modifiers and this is all before accounting for crit modifiers which many raise to near cap being a +125% damage increase.

On an ability that tooltips at rest for 10k (pretty standard for other class burst abilities, while NB tooltip at rest for generally 13k+ AW) that is going to be 21k tool tip easily when buffed up (which it is when it is used) which if that crits at/near the 125% crit damage cap is essentially a 47k tooltip on assassins will if it had the same damage as other regular "delayed burst" abilities.

Assuming 30k resistances (45% mitigation), no breach, no pen and base crit resist (20% mitigation) it will hit for nearly 21k (20.79k) in actual damage against someone who is not blocking the ability (i.e. if they are stunned from incap/off balance medium weave etc).

In saying this, I don't think the ability itself should get nerfed, simply make concealed weapons bonus into the named buff major berserk to prevent it stacking with all the other buffs and this will bring it back into line with other burst.

Do you know how many GCD's and timers you need to manage to have all those buffs on top of defending and at the same time managing bow proc counter? If someone is able to line up all those buffs and then land very slow projectile with probably the loudest sound cue on you he deserves to deal a lot of damage to you. Just saying.

Re-read the final line of my post, I did say I don't think AW needs a nerf. I said what needs to be toned down is the unique unnamed buff concealed gives to make it into major berserk so it doesn't stack but still provides that 10% bonus damage.
Also, it's not that hard to keep AW will up, sure it's not easy like whip, but it's not exactly like trying to complete godslayer or something like so many try to make it out to be.

Sun7dance

The Incap-Bow-(Killer's Blade)-Burst-Combo doesn't work against good players, coz they usually dodge the bow.
If you then wait until he comes out of the dodge role, then he already had 2 or more hot ticks.
It's not a question of high damage numbers of certain skills, it's all about doing as much damage as possible at the same time.

Another story are skills like whirling blade. It does less damage than Killer's Blade, but it almost always hits, coz you don't need a focused target and it's undodgeable (there are exceptions).
So with whirling blade you can easily keep up pressure, while with killer's blade you often have to look for the right position and so very important seconds are just wasted.

Same story:
4x6k whirling blade is much more effective than 1x15k killer's blade + 3sec of nothing.

Jsmalls

Generally I feel like NBs that hit high spectral bows are built accordingly. High damage, low defense.

In my OPINION, these types of players are significantly more "Fun" to play against than the tank meta players. High risk, high reward creates exciting gameplay for both parties involved. So I think nerfing this playstyle would be a push in an already heavily weighted negative playstyle meta.

Latency and lag aside the bow proc is predictable/reactable. It has counterplay.

As a Mag Sorc with bias for the class, I don't necessarily think the NB burst setup is fair for the effort applied.... But I think the damage is fine.

I'm just jealous that Sorcs don't have the passive strengths that NBs have. The bow proc I would say (after passives are calculated) is a higher tooltip than a frag and curse combined.

And idk who said it in here but a Frag is never hitting 17k on a player. I've ran some dumb high damage setups and a 17k frag is a pipe dream. But a 25k bow proc is realistic and does happen with the right setups.

That being said.....

Nothing in the damage category deserves to be nerfed when there are 45k health frost wardens with projectile shields, strong heals, and strong damage walking around. Same goes (albeit a lesser extent) for the DKs doing the same. Fix that first and foremost, then we can worry about one ability that might hit a bit too hard....

joergino

Why aren't all threads demanding nerfs deleted instantly?

The_Titan_Tim

Jsmalls wrote: »

Generally I feel like NBs that hit high spectral bows are built accordingly. High damage, low defense.

In my OPINION, these types of players are significantly more "Fun" to play against than the tank meta players. High risk, high reward creates exciting gameplay for both parties involved. So I think nerfing this playstyle would be a push in an already heavily weighted negative playstyle meta.

Latency and lag aside the bow proc is predictable/reactable. It has counterplay.

As a Mag Sorc with bias for the class, I don't necessarily think the NB burst setup is fair for the effort applied.... But I think the damage is fine.

I'm just jealous that Sorcs don't have the passive strengths that NBs have. The bow proc I would say (after passives are calculated) is a higher tooltip than a frag and curse combined.

And idk who said it in here but a Frag is never hitting 17k on a player. I've ran some dumb high damage setups and a 17k frag is a pipe dream. But a 25k bow proc is realistic and does happen with the right setups.

That being said.....

Nothing in the damage category deserves to be nerfed when there are 45k health frost wardens with projectile shields, strong heals, and strong damage walking around. Same goes (albeit a lesser extent) for the DKs doing the same. Fix that first and foremost, then we can worry about one ability that might hit a bit too hard....

Low defense? Magicka Nightblade has the best healing in the game right now, and free Major Resolve every time they activate a Shadow ability…

Wuuffyy

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Generally I feel like NBs that hit high spectral bows are built accordingly. High damage, low defense.

In my OPINION, these types of players are significantly more "Fun" to play against than the tank meta players. High risk, high reward creates exciting gameplay for both parties involved. So I think nerfing this playstyle would be a push in an already heavily weighted negative playstyle meta.

Latency and lag aside the bow proc is predictable/reactable. It has counterplay.

As a Mag Sorc with bias for the class, I don't necessarily think the NB burst setup is fair for the effort applied.... But I think the damage is fine.

I'm just jealous that Sorcs don't have the passive strengths that NBs have. The bow proc I would say (after passives are calculated) is a higher tooltip than a frag and curse combined.

And idk who said it in here but a Frag is never hitting 17k on a player. I've ran some dumb high damage setups and a 17k frag is a pipe dream. But a 25k bow proc is realistic and does happen with the right setups.

That being said.....

Nothing in the damage category deserves to be nerfed when there are 45k health frost wardens with projectile shields, strong heals, and strong damage walking around. Same goes (albeit a lesser extent) for the DKs doing the same. Fix that first and foremost, then we can worry about one ability that might hit a bit too hard....

Low defense? Magicka Nightblade has the best healing in the game right now, and free Major Resolve every time they activate a Shadow ability…

This is coming from someone who used to main a NB, they have way too much personal healing for an assassin class. The heal needs to be Allies only or a big cost increase or something.

MetallicMonk

Ye nb in no way should be able to spam healthy offering on themselves, dmg modifiers on concealed and incap probably need a bit tuned down, bow tooltip itself is fine.

The healing power of this class while having the playstyle and damage it does is mega cringe.

Amerises

robpr wrote: »

Only nerf NB needs right now is to have reveal skills work and apply stealth prevention properly. As for spectral, it needs projectile speed increase.

This. I have no qualms about NB’s, except how reveals work

virtus753

StaticWave wrote: »

66 crit resist = 1% crit damage mitigation. Do the math and we need around 8250 crit resist to nullify a 125% crit damage NB. Most builds struggle to even reach 4k crit resist. An average build with Rallying Cry usually sits at 3.5k crit resist, which is about 53% crit damage mitigation. That means you're still taking 72% more crit damage, almost 3 times the potency of old Malacath. A non crit bow proc that hits you for 7k will now crit for 12k if you have 3.5k crit resist. If you don't use Rallying Cry and have all impen traits, you will take 94% extra crit damage. A 7k non crit bow proc will now crit for 13.5k damage.

No amount of crit resist will bring a crit below the base value of 50% added compared to a non-crit. So going for 8k won’t help much here. You have only 75% extra crit damage you can mitigate with crit resist.

Dr_Con

NB have plenty of things in their tool kit, but allowing them to build full crit dmg and have an ult that can crit from stealth isnt good design. additionally, the grim focus morphs might be overperforming when you add lag to the equation.

StaticWave

virtus753 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

66 crit resist = 1% crit damage mitigation. Do the math and we need around 8250 crit resist to nullify a 125% crit damage NB. Most builds struggle to even reach 4k crit resist. An average build with Rallying Cry usually sits at 3.5k crit resist, which is about 53% crit damage mitigation. That means you're still taking 72% more crit damage, almost 3 times the potency of old Malacath. A non crit bow proc that hits you for 7k will now crit for 12k if you have 3.5k crit resist. If you don't use Rallying Cry and have all impen traits, you will take 94% extra crit damage. A 7k non crit bow proc will now crit for 13.5k damage.

No amount of crit resist will bring a crit below the base value of 50% added compared to a non-crit. So going for 8k won’t help much here. You have only 75% extra crit damage you can mitigate with crit resist.

But it will make critical hits deal 0 extra damage, and that's a huge survivability boost, especially in this current meta where crit damage is king.

The problem is it's a lot easier to stack crit damage versus stacking crit resist. It should be easier to stack crit damage because that's how you don't have stalemate fights, but when it's A LOT easier, that's a problem. You can reach 111% crit damage on a NB/Templar and 101% on other classes without using any 5 piece set. To mitigate the base 50% crit damage, you need to wear a 5 piece set. The disparity is too great and needs to be reduced so we don't have this meta where people are forced to build tankier because they would get one shotted if they don't.

Jammy420

StaticWave wrote: »

NB is overperforming but you're asking for the wrong nerfs. Assassin's Will does not need a nerf. These are the changes that need to happen:

1) Remove 10% unnamed damage done from Concealed Weapon
2) Remove 100% dodge cost reduction from Phantasmal Escape
3) Increase base crit resist again, or make it harder to stack crit damage
4) Remove other sources of survivability for NB now that they have a burst heal

10% damage done from Concealed Weapon buffs everything in NB's kit. Combined with low base crit resistance and easy access to crit damage, a NB can easily stack high crit rate and reach the crit damage cap of 125%.

66 crit resist = 1% crit damage mitigation. Do the math and we need around 8250 crit resist to nullify a 125% crit damage NB. Most builds struggle to even reach 4k crit resist. An average build with Rallying Cry usually sits at 3.5k crit resist, which is about 53% crit damage mitigation. That means you're still taking 72% more crit damage, almost 3 times the potency of old Malacath. A non crit bow proc that hits you for 7k will now crit for 12k if you have 3.5k crit resist. If you don't use Rallying Cry and have all impen traits, you will take 94% extra crit damage. A 7k non crit bow proc will now crit for 13.5k damage.

In reality, this 7k value is lowballed. Most NBs can easily hit 9k-10k non crit bow procs before Incap because of Conceal's 10% damage buff, full pen (it's very easy to stack pen on NB), and Vulnerability/Berserk. Using the same crit resistance values, a 9k non crit bow proc will now deal 15.4k crit damage on a 3.5k crit resist build, and 17.4k crit damage on a build with all impen but no Rallying. If you have ZERO impen and no crit resist sets, you will be sitting at 1320 crit resistance, or 20% crit damage mitigation. You would be taking a 18.4k crit bow proc.

Most NBs hitting those crazy 20k bow procs are have reached the crit damage cap and were fighting people with only base crit resist. If you were in Rallying Cry and still took a 20k bow, then the NB was in a high damage build and had a bunch of extra debuffs on you.

It's actually really easy to stack crit damage on a NB while also having decent offensive stats before doing real investments. Base crit damage is 50%, then add 12% from Khajiit, 11% from shadow mundus, 10% from 5 medium, 8% from Fighting Finesse , 10% from NB passive, and 10% from Minor Force. That's 50% + 12% + 11% + 10% + 8% + 10% + 10% = 111%. Now add a crit set like Order's Wrath, a few divine pieces, and you've pretty much reached the crit damage cap with a little bit of investment.

The other issue is Phantasmal Escape. It gives you 10% cost reduction every time you take direct damage and can stack every half second. Basically, a single light attack will give you 10% cost reduction for roll dodge, giving it a 100% up time because you're always taking light attack damage. After 1 second, you will have 20% dodge cost reduction, equivalent to 3 pieces of well-fitted. This lets you drop well-fitted for more divines to increase your crit damage modifier. This ability also gives you Major Evasion, one of the best dmg mitigation ability in the game. It's too stacked of a defensive ability.

After getting a burst heal, NB needs to have Cloak/Shadow Image looked at. The class just has everything defensively at this point. It has slipperiness (Cloak/Shadow Image), mobility (Major Minor Expedition), and tankiness (Phantasmal Escape/burst heal/other HoTs). One of these 3 has to go.

I would say address these 4 points first. NB was never an issue before ZOS gave them these buffs. Do that and we won't see anymore complaints about NB being too strong.

People still with the mindset of " stealth nb is strong, therfore all nightblades must suffer "