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Character Max Resources (Maximum Magicka and Stamina)

Nebula_DooM
Nebula_DooM
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Hello everyone!

Hope everyone had a great New Year! Now with a New Year comes new pts cycles and updates, thus forum posts about new ideas and stuff to discuss! While I am aware that the focus is sorta moving towards bug fixes this year, it doesn't hurt to dream a little... although this idea might turn heads, so take it with a grain of salt.

Max Resources like Health, Magicka and Stamina has increasingly become less and less important (Specifically Magicka and Stamina) in specific situation. This is a interesting issue since it is case-by-case. For example, this is more specifically a PvP issue for damage dealers and healers, since tanks in PvP normally stack health anyways, likewise in PvE, and in Pve, damage dealers and healers will normally try to min-max their spec. Other than basic combat skills, like bash, block, roll dodge and break-free, max stats have no use. You might think "Yeah they do have uses, like casting skills" and whatnot, but there are builds that rock 24k max stats, 2-3k regen on said stat while having 30k+ health since they'll just build for survivability since ultimately, weapon and spell damage will carry their damaging and healing skills, and damage proc sets. Even Magicka Sorcerers, the max magicka stacking kings they are (or used to be in my opinion) have switched to having higher weapon and spell damage instead of max magicka, opting out of shields. Now this is not a "Lets nerf weapon and spell damage forum post" but a buff max magicka and stamina post. There are a few reasons why I feel this will be a good idea (in theory!!!!):
  • This will solve the tank meta in some ways. If maximum magicka and stamina were buffed in a way that provided better incentives, it will hopefully boost damage output and reduce survivability since it could mean players would much rather stack more into these two stats compared to health and weapon and spell damage
  • This would help magicka and stamina sorcerers, magicka nightblades and werewolves big time, since stacking into max stats is built into their class kits in the form of % increases for max stats
  • More build diversity! (I mean who can say no to this). Right now as it sits, literally max health high, weapon/spell damage high, sustain high = good build. ESO combat is more than that. Don't nerf weapon/spell damage to the ground, same with max health and sustain. Just provide better incentives to stacking maximum magicka and stamina (maybe make all proc sets scale with weapon/spell damage as well as maximum magicka and stamina?)

Some ways to do this:
  • The most extreme measure... Change the scaling ratio that has existed since the dawn of ESO (for those who don't know what I am talking about, this ratio is what usually dictates the damage on your tooltip) (1 weapon/spell damage: 10.5 maximum magicka/stamina). This is the most extreme measure since this would require a complete rebalance of well everything in the game. I highly doubt Zenimax has the time and the resources to pursue this option because lets be real, if I were them I would not be bothered to even touch sets/skills/cp/munduses all at once. This leaves us to the other options...
  • Create more ways of receiving % buffs and flat buffs to your maximum magicka and stamina for classes. I could go on and on about the amount of % buffs and flat buffs you receive for weapon and spell damage i.e. major/minor brutality/sorcery, major/minor courage, continuous attack etc. What buffs do max magicka and stamina get? I can count 4 % buffs, a few character passives, 2 munduses and 4 cp perks. Not all that great unless you're a nightblade and you choose any of the 5 skills or ultimate to get 8% max magicka whereas a sorcerer has to slot a single skill that probably wont be used since there are plenty other skills you can use in place of it (Rant ended). This might be the only time I say nerf weapon/spell damage buffs cause there are a lot of buffs lol.

This is a lot to take in. I'm well aware of the implications this has on combat and rebalancing. It however will bring a refreshing combat change that is needed imo and could potentially solve a lot of issues specifically in PvP, however magicka/stamina sorc and werewolves could get some love. Also open to other classes (warden's 15% extra max magicka on northern storm was sooo good; plz bring it back!). Please leave your thoughts on this post. Really curious to see what ideas you guys have!
  • Billium813
    Billium813
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    Your highest offensive stat (Stam/Mag) scales the damage you do as a DD. I think that runs counter to the "hybridization"/ "play how you want" message that ZOS has attempted, and has yet to fully complete. It also hinders sets that provide both Magicka and Stamina buffs, which are sets that "hybridized" builds would want to play. Sets like:

    Sithis' Touch, Mighty Glacier, Saxhleel Champion, Deeproot Zeal, Vampire's Kiss, Sload's Semblance, Coldharbour’s Favorite

    I would like to see damage scale on a combination of max offensive stats. Suddenly, DD builds could mix and match Stam and Mag sets without worrying about the Max Stat line hindering their damage just cause it isn't their max stat.

    Yes, it would also makes sets like Domihaus, Swarm Mother, and Death Dealer's Fete, which provide both resources on the same item line, much more powerful. But these sets can easily be fixed by halfing the bonus.

    There would need to be a rebalance of how Stats scale damage, and some sets would need to be "fixed", but I would like to see more build options become viable. As well as real "hybridization" efforts to complete this ideal ZOS has.
  • Nebula_DooM
    Nebula_DooM
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    Billium813 wrote: »
    Your highest offensive stat (Stam/Mag) scales the damage you do as a DD. I think that runs counter to the "hybridization"/ "play how you want" message that ZOS has attempted, and has yet to fully complete. It also hinders sets that provide both Magicka and Stamina buffs, which are sets that "hybridized" builds would want to play.

    Completely right in saying that. I somehow missed the part where nightblades for example only get max magicka as a bonus and no stamina option which would be frustrating. Like I said a very interesting issue. I did think of this one idea where you have your health bar and you have a cast bar, let’s call it that (instead of having a mag and stam bar). Would be interesting to see it play out but magicka and stamina bars are like fundamentals in the Elder Scrolls Franchise, definitely can’t remove one or the other.

    With sets like domihaus, I don’t think they need to be scaled down imo since they’ll already be scaling of highest stat pool. Ultimately what I feel like they have to change if they don’t scale down sets is honestly change Druid’s braids pieces into something completely different or buff the hell out of it to outshine sets that give you a bit of every resource

    I’ve also just realised stuff like more roll dodges and streaks will probably become more common with higher stat pools so probably have to adjust the fatigue you get.

    Another thing they could try is buffing infused enchants on armour pieces. To avoid getting high health tho, small nerf to health enchants
  • Billium813
    Billium813
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    Billium813 wrote: »
    Your highest offensive stat (Stam/Mag) scales the damage you do as a DD. I think that runs counter to the "hybridization"/ "play how you want" message that ZOS has attempted, and has yet to fully complete. It also hinders sets that provide both Magicka and Stamina buffs, which are sets that "hybridized" builds would want to play.

    I did think of this one idea where you have your health bar and you have a cast bar, let’s call it that (instead of having a mag and stam bar). Would be interesting to see it play out but magicka and stamina bars are like fundamentals in the Elder Scrolls Franchise, definitely can’t remove one or the other.

    Having 1 resource pool would be an oversimplification; IMO. It's not just the "well, TES has always HAD Mag/Stam bars, so we have to have it" that makes having two resource pools good design. You mentioned dodge rolls, but also blocking and resource regen are another good reason to have multiple pools. They want to encourage gameplay where players use both pools, rather than ignore 1 completely. That's fine, good even! It makes players need to juggle resources better, gives players more choices, and makes combat more dynamic since players aren't just 1 thing; they can change damage styles in combat.

    I am only advocating for damage to scale off BOTH stat pools, not to eliminate both pools or remove their unique identity/utility. Having max stats in and of itself IS the benefit. If you have more Mag, you can cast more Mag spells quickly without running out. Having Max Stam can allow you to roll dodge further or block more. THAT can be the benefit of leaning towards a specific stat. Having Damage scale to a specific max stat seems arbitrary considering that they already made the hybridization change for Physical AND Spell damage skills scale off your max Stat, regardless whichever that is. They have already broken any immersion reason for having Max Magicka make your Stampede hit harder. They just need to go the full way and finish "hybridization".
    Edited by Billium813 on January 24, 2023 5:28PM
  • AdamLAD
    AdamLAD
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    Just make max stats the same power as weapon and spell damage, but instead of them both applying on top of each other, you have to choose one or the other. I'd also allow max stats to have way more % modifiers to suit how many wep/spell damage does currently.

    Unfortunately some builds have 8k weapon damage. And the way scaling works today that would probably be around 85k max stats LOL. But let's not forget max stats stack ON top of the 8k weapon damage. So if they have 25k max stam or mag they would have roughly 10k weapon damage theoretically. That's 100k max stats to suit. No wonder mag sorc simply cannot compete in today's climate lmao.
  • Nebula_DooM
    Nebula_DooM
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    The passives in this game are so outdated. Imma use the same example of nightblade's and their 8% extra max magicka again. Instead of it providing only max magicka, you should be able to choose between max magicka or stamina when you buy the passive when you respec for example. Would be such a cool idea to implement and it would give an extra layer of build crafting
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