One ring to rule them all roles [Mythic item suggestion]

Bo0137 · January 2023

For me the fake tank/fake healer debate has always been pointless WHEN in normal dungeon setting. For one reason: a good DPS will always be better than a tank or a healer in a normal dungeon, giving how easy these are.
When I go daily dungeon, I queue as a tanker and slot a taunt. I do DPS, I taunt the boss and I survive with my dps gear. Technically, I'm being a tank.
With that being said, I think ESO could benefit from an item (maybe two?) that allows you to DPS AND Tank, or DPS AND Heal.
It goes like this:

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage applies a stack of [insert name]. Upon 5 stacks, the enemy is taunted towards you. This effect can occur every X seconds (taunt cooldown).

AND

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage heals you and up to three allies by X (low yet fair amount).

Or maybe a combination of both?

That is, this item should NOT be good in end game content, such as trials (even normal) and veteran dungeons.

jaws343 · January 2023

Honestly, the taunt on that alone would be a complete nightmare.

You would 100% have people running that in vet dungeons and the tank would never be able to maintain taunt.

Billium813 · January 2023

Bo0137 wrote: »

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage applies a stack of [insert name]. Upon 5 stacks, the enemy is taunted towards you. This effect can occur every X seconds (taunt cooldown).

Bo0137 wrote: »

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage heals you and up to three allies by X (low yet fair amount).

I'm not completely against this concept... but it really isn't how ESO is set up. You are essentially advocating for the removal or diminished utility of having a dedicated "Tank" or a dedicated "Healer". I think this concept muddies the water so much that that will only encourage MORE fakes. I understand YOU may be able to use these kinds of items perfectly fine, but what about the behavior it encourages in others that may not know what they are doing? Or the players that take these into harder content, thinking that they should be fine using them? Then, they get crushed or healing isn't good enough, and the group has to disband... which leads to unfun play.

I would most certainly like to see more Taunts in the game. The Tormentor Set was a nice experiment, but we do need something better. For healing though, Echoing Vigor is enough of an issue IMO. It already basically makes Healers feel useless enough. We don't need MORE healing items to push Healers out of the meta. Instead, we need more content that REQUIRES these roles in their truest form.

Billium813 · January 2023

I think you may be confusing the issue too.

If the content doesn't "require" a healer or a tank, the problem isn't with the roles, or even the players that choose the roles! The problem is... THE CONTENT! The solution isn't to change the identity of roles. The solution is to make the content to make the roles more important. This is a multiplayer game and the game is at its most fun when it requires collaboration and teamwork.

Araneae6537 · January 2023

Billium813 wrote: »

Bo0137 wrote: »

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage applies a stack of [insert name]. Upon 5 stacks, the enemy is taunted towards you. This effect can occur every X seconds (taunt cooldown).

Bo0137 wrote: »

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage heals you and up to three allies by X (low yet fair amount).

I'm not completely against this concept... but it really isn't how ESO is set up. You are essentially advocating for the removal or diminished utility of having a dedicated "Tank" or a dedicated "Healer". I think this concept muddies the water so much that that will only encourage MORE fakes. I understand YOU may be able to use these kinds of items perfectly fine, but what about the behavior it encourages in others that may not know what they are doing? Or the players that take these into harder content, thinking that they should be fine using them? Then, they get crushed or healing isn't good enough, and the group has to disband... which leads to unfun play.

I would most certainly like to see more Taunts in the game. The Tormentor Set was a nice experiment, but we do need something better. For healing though, Echoing Vigor is enough of an issue IMO. It already basically makes Healers feel useless enough. We don't need MORE healing items to push Healers out of the meta. Instead, we need more content that REQUIRES these roles in their truest form.

I completely agree on both! Tanks and healers should be made more fun and relevant. It’s frustrating how many one shots can’t be prevented by taunts or healing or barriers (in vet of course, not normal) and until I got an add-on to show what I had aggro on, I found that quite frustrating trying to tank, thinking I’d lost aggro. Tormentor is fun and more area taunt abilities of one for or another would be nice for dungeons.

And for healers, heals keep being nerfed (and I constantly see posts demanding more healing nerfs) and then players given more ways to self-heal and now self-buff. Not that there shouldn’t be ways to do those things, but it should come with a cost to damage output so that the most effective group would be tank, healer, and two DPS. It should be harder and not easier to get through content without a proper tank and healer.

Baconlad · January 2023

I think the entire concept of tanks need to go. Everything should be varying levels of DPS. Sponging their own damage and healing themselves.

The major minor system is great for some buffs. But pointless for others.

All armor buffs and debuffs should be removed, all damage done spell damage and weapon damage should be removed, all healing done healing recieved should be gone. Crit damage and crit rate gone.

This only applies to buffs from the major and minor system. With certain sets adjusted.

The developers tried to lower the cieling...they raised it and loved the floor. This change would have raised the floor and slightly lowered the ceiling. Making certain completely needed skills and sets not needed. Allowing tanks and healers to focus more on healing and tanking than being buff bots

fred4 · January 2023

IMO there is nothing here that doesn't already exist. The Tormentor set is excellent for one thing. I'd call it more than an experiment. I love that set. Slap it on a templar on the back bar and you can legitimately tank most normal dungeons, AOE taunting with Explosive Charge while being a self-healing DD. Do the same on any class with Stampede. Use it on a DK to get a combined and often free ranged taunt / pull in Unrelenting Grip. Use Silver Leash on any class.

I don't think a stacking taunt mechanism would work. You need to be able to taunt immediately and at will. If you're the designated tank, you need to fill that role. Also, squishy will work in many dungeons, but you can't go into normal March of Sacrifices for example without building somewhat tanky beyond just putting on Tormentor or a ring that doesn't even give you Tormentor's resistances. This is an issue when you queue for random normals. You have to allow for March and possibly other outliers that require a bit more from the tank.

Sadly I think healers are even less needed in the easier 4-man content than tanks, at least not in a healing capacity. I wouldn't say no to a healer that buffs the group, throws some heals and does some damage as well. Do you need an extra mythic for that? I don't think so. Echoing Vigor and/or Regeneration, maybe an emergency burst heal are probably all that's needed.

It depends on the experience of the group, though, doesn't it? For a group of all noobs, 1T 1H 2DD is probably the correct group composition for even normal dungeons. It's only more experienced DDs that get by with a single self heal. Those self heals are abundant, though. Healing from damage is part of many classes. Sweeps, Radiant Glory, Swallow Soul, Sap Essence, Crit Surge, mostly the magicka variants, but there's Vigor for stamina.

Ragnarok0130 · January 2023

Bo0137 wrote: »

For me the fake tank/fake healer debate has always been pointless WHEN in normal dungeon setting. For one reason: a good DPS will always be better than a tank or a healer in a normal dungeon, giving how easy these are.
When I go daily dungeon, I queue as a tanker and slot a taunt. I do DPS, I taunt the boss and I survive with my dps gear. Technically, I'm being a tank.
With that being said, I think ESO could benefit from an item (maybe two?) that allows you to DPS AND Tank, or DPS AND Heal.
It goes like this:

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage applies a stack of [insert name]. Upon 5 stacks, the enemy is taunted towards you. This effect can occur every X seconds (taunt cooldown).

AND

[Insert name] (one piece): dealing critical damage heals you and up to three allies by X (low yet fair amount).

Or maybe a combination of both?

That is, this item should NOT be good in end game content, such as trials (even normal) and veteran dungeons.

I'm staunchly against this concept as roles are already too blurred in ESO to the point where new players are thoroughly confused and don't even realize they are queuing for a tank slot most of the time let alone what a tank does. Tanks and healers are not irrelevant when you spawn into a dungeon and see 3 brand new Similac on the breath low level players - just because normal dungeons are easy for us as veteran and end game players doesn't mean the dungeons are easy for the target audience of that content, and that new players should not see what is supposed to happen in a dungeon scenario. Why rob new players of this learning moment out of your own impatience when you can simply run veteran dungeons?

notyuu · January 2023

of instead of making these effects into an item, just bake them directly into the roles but only have them take effect while inside group content areas (dungons, trials, weird craglorn group delve things)