BlueRaven wrote: »

What is this thread even about anymore?

Is it about getting gold? Is it about farming? Is it another tired argument for having a central ah?

It’s all over the place.

The subject keeps going off topic whenever someone brings an irrelevant notion to the table that was never

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

You look at it from the wrong side. It is not false that you can easily afford everything you need just by playing the game. It isn't how much you make an hour but how much gold you need. You might be confusing want with need. You don't need gold gear until you are ready to start running vet trials and DLC dungeons. By the time you need the gold gear you have plenty of gold or supplies to either buy or make your own.
Players confuse want with need quite often. With the current market system most players can get everything the need and most of what they want. The market is strong, fluid and vibrant. It ebb and flows with supply and demand as any healthy market would. And the most important thing is changing to a central type of system would only compound the problems you are looking to address.
As others have stated it isn't about how much can be made in an hour. That will always vary some in this game and that isn't a bad thing at all. Farming gear sometimes you get lucky and get the choice weapon with the preferred trait first run. Other times it may take many runs. For consistent and steady income crafting is the way to go. You won't build up a huge surplus of gold but you can keep yourself in good gear the the desired foods/potions easily enough.
I used to make a lot of gold by doing master writs, purchasing furniture plans with the vouchers then selling those plans. Then because I had a ton of AP I started purchasing things with AP then selling them for gold. Just playing at what I enjoyed I amassed a bit of a fortune.
I am in a guild that gets a trader maybe once every two months. It isn't in a prime location but during that one week I can usually come in with over seven million gold. Again that is just by doing things I find fun. I don't go out looking for gold or for items to sell. It just happens as I play the game.

Someone's said that before you, I'm not confusing wants with needs. I do end game content. I do participate in veteran trials. You do need multiple sets for particular trials, you're not supposed to go into each trial with the same gear as each fight and mechanics are different. You do want to be fully setup in the trial so that you're not holding your team back being as you would be setup to be the best that you can be as the same is expected of them.

I do participate in PvP content where gold gear is needed, I do participate in player housing. I don't work my 9-5 job just to come home and grind like a 9-5 job doing things I don't want to do where I can play the game the way the game allows me too. Who exactly wants to get on the game and acquire gold by thieving or antiquities that is a very slow gold acquisition. Who wants to spend their days farming killing animals for light armor and medium materials just to break down for gold materials? Sure I do my daily writs all the time, but I'm not gonna play the game in ways that feels like a job outside of my real job.

Also if you feel like money isn't a necessity in this game or a real need why are you so defensive on this topic?

I'm vocal on this topic because I believe going to a centrally located economy would be devastating to the game. I push back on people that try and convince others the economy is broken and use as proof items that are not needed for most content in the game.
I've not suggested a grind of any kind other than to say grinding XP can lead to a shortage of gold because you concentrate only on the XP. I've said play the game as you want and you will get enough gold to afford the things you need.

You see a problem that doesn't exist and offer a solution that would actually create the problem you claim to want to fix.

Clearly there's a problem that exist cause I can't play it as I want as the game hinders you in so many ways is the point you're missing. Lol there's clearly a issue especially if others keep pointing it out and it's a reoccurring topic.

King_*** wrote: »

Clearly there's a problem that exist cause I can't play it as I want as the game hinders you in so many ways is the point you're missing. Lol there's clearly a issue especially if others keep pointing it out and it's a reoccurring topic.

Every game has certain inbuilt systems. If this system in this game is causing you such angst, then perhaps this is not the game for you.

And why on Tamriel does your ID post with asterisks for other posters for pete's sake?

Nice try ... auction house bad.

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

An internal system that tracked and displayed that would require less processing than an external one finding out the same information from an external interface.

And that same internal system could be slowed enough to reduce load but still allow for global searching and such. Arguing against it on a "load" basis is not appropriate.

kargen27 wrote: »

I'm vocal on this topic because I believe going to a centrally located economy would be devastating to the game. I push back on people that try and convince others the economy is broken and use as proof items that are not needed for most content in the game.
I've not suggested a grind of any kind other than to say grinding XP can lead to a shortage of gold because you concentrate only on the XP. I've said play the game as you want and you will get enough gold to afford the things you need.

You see a problem that doesn't exist and offer a solution that would actually create the problem you claim to want to fix.

Whether the economy is "broken" or "working well" is a subjective view and involves far more than just mats. Look at the overall picture and your vocal argument is reinforcing a system that thrives on hidden information.

And so many continue to claim that a centralized system would kill the game, when many other games worked just fine with just such a system (including the behemoth, World of Warcraft). But even that shift is not required. Just let people search for what they want WITHIN the game instead of having to run from vendor to vendor to maybe find something (consoles and often even with something like TTC on PC).

Yet even that is regularly opposed.

I do see the guild trader system as foolish, but it is what we will almost certainly have while the game exists, so make it better and more accessible. All the other arguments are irrelevant.

I've offered a solution that would help with being able to find items you wish to purchase that wouldn't require a complete overhaul of the current market. Others have also offered ideas. We are not saying the current system is perfect and couldn't use some quality of life changes. We are saying moving to a global/central market system isn't the answer and would create more problems than it solves.

As did I. Have you read my posts? Just let us find where things are (in reality, not TTC's maybe possibly webpage). Combine that with the current system (and noting sales information) and it would help significantly.

King_*** wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

What is this thread even about anymore?

Is it about getting gold? Is it about farming? Is it another tired argument for having a central ah?

It’s all over the place.

The subject keeps going off topic whenever someone brings an irrelevant notion to the table that was never

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

You look at it from the wrong side. It is not false that you can easily afford everything you need just by playing the game. It isn't how much you make an hour but how much gold you need. You might be confusing want with need. You don't need gold gear until you are ready to start running vet trials and DLC dungeons. By the time you need the gold gear you have plenty of gold or supplies to either buy or make your own.
Players confuse want with need quite often. With the current market system most players can get everything the need and most of what they want. The market is strong, fluid and vibrant. It ebb and flows with supply and demand as any healthy market would. And the most important thing is changing to a central type of system would only compound the problems you are looking to address.
As others have stated it isn't about how much can be made in an hour. That will always vary some in this game and that isn't a bad thing at all. Farming gear sometimes you get lucky and get the choice weapon with the preferred trait first run. Other times it may take many runs. For consistent and steady income crafting is the way to go. You won't build up a huge surplus of gold but you can keep yourself in good gear the the desired foods/potions easily enough.
I used to make a lot of gold by doing master writs, purchasing furniture plans with the vouchers then selling those plans. Then because I had a ton of AP I started purchasing things with AP then selling them for gold. Just playing at what I enjoyed I amassed a bit of a fortune.
I am in a guild that gets a trader maybe once every two months. It isn't in a prime location but during that one week I can usually come in with over seven million gold. Again that is just by doing things I find fun. I don't go out looking for gold or for items to sell. It just happens as I play the game.

Someone's said that before you, I'm not confusing wants with needs. I do end game content. I do participate in veteran trials. You do need multiple sets for particular trials, you're not supposed to go into each trial with the same gear as each fight and mechanics are different. You do want to be fully setup in the trial so that you're not holding your team back being as you would be setup to be the best that you can be as the same is expected of them.

I do participate in PvP content where gold gear is needed, I do participate in player housing. I don't work my 9-5 job just to come home and grind like a 9-5 job doing things I don't want to do where I can play the game the way the game allows me too. Who exactly wants to get on the game and acquire gold by thieving or antiquities that is a very slow gold acquisition. Who wants to spend their days farming killing animals for light armor and medium materials just to break down for gold materials? Sure I do my daily writs all the time, but I'm not gonna play the game in ways that feels like a job outside of my real job.

Also if you feel like money isn't a necessity in this game or a real need why are you so defensive on this topic?

I'm vocal on this topic because I believe going to a centrally located economy would be devastating to the game. I push back on people that try and convince others the economy is broken and use as proof items that are not needed for most content in the game.
I've not suggested a grind of any kind other than to say grinding XP can lead to a shortage of gold because you concentrate only on the XP. I've said play the game as you want and you will get enough gold to afford the things you need.

You see a problem that doesn't exist and offer a solution that would actually create the problem you claim to want to fix.

Clearly there's a problem that exist cause I can't play it as I want as the game hinders you in so many ways is the point you're missing. Lol there's clearly a issue especially if others keep pointing it out and it's a reoccurring topic.

How specifically is your style of play being denied by the current system and how would a central market help? If it is about cheap gear a central system is not the way to go.

King_*** wrote: »

Lol this game's gameplay and story makes the game appealing, each game has their pros and cons but this games economy should change and it would make the game top tier. So it's not about the whether or not you feel the game is for me or not, the game can be improved. Just like any other update in this game.

The problem is that you make all these claims and write nothing down to support them.

The economy should be this...
The game should do that...
The players want this...
My friends want that...

Why? Why should it?
Why should ESO be like WoW or FFXIV? Why? Why shouldn't it be ESO? It worked so far. Why is it suddenly failing?
Or have you been playing since launch and just now decided to share your insights?

Who are these players and what gives you the authority to speak for "silent majorities"? Where is the proof for that? Is there a poll you like to put foreward? From other sources maybe, like Reddit for example.

My own trading guild guild master spoke out against your opinions here and he speaks for over 2000 members of our community discord. Do you have something similar to put forward?

That is all we get from you. Opinions. No single reasoning. Proof. Context even. Nothing. No deep dive.

Please, please, please for the sake of discussion culture and your own opinions, please make an effort and explain yourself with arguments.

Edit: Typos

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Lol this game's gameplay and story makes the game appealing, each game has their pros and cons but this games economy should change and it would make the game top tier. So it's not about the whether or not you feel the game is for me or not, the game can be improved. Just like any other update in this game.

The problem is that you make all these claims and write nothing down to support them.

The economy should be this...
The game should do that...
The players want this...
My friends want that...

Why? Why should it?
Why should ESO be like WoW or FFXIV? Why? Why shouldn't it be ESO? It worked so far. Why is it suddenly failing?
Or have you been playing since launch and just now decided to share your insights?

Who are these players and what gives you the authority to speak for "silent majorities"? Where is the proof for that? Is there a poll you like to put foreward? From other sources maybe, like Reddit for example.

My own trading guild guild master spoke out against your opinions here and he speaks for over 2000 members of our community discord. Do you have something similar to put forward?

That is all we get from you. Opinions. No single reasoning. Proof. Context even. Nothing. No deep dive.

Please, please, please for the sake of discussion culture and your own opinions, please make an effort and explain yourself with arguments.

Edit: Typos

I replied to someone else answering all that quite recently actually, check it out. Also I've been provided proof we it's already a thing that works flawlessly in the games that I listed...

King_*** wrote: »

Economy

What needs to change?

• The guild trader system alone is failing and in need of a massive overhaul. ESO has come out after older MMORPG's such as RuneScape, and FFXIV which have paved the way laying down ground work of what ESO should have followed and improved.
  <sinip>

Having followed this thread with interest I do not agree that the ESO guild trader system is failing and have not seen any conclusive evidence of this apart from anecdotes.

I also do not see why ESO would have to copy other games trading systems when the current system works well enough. I'm sure they looked at other games trading systems before designing their own. As this was a deliberate developer choice it is extremely doubtful that the changes suggested in the OP would ever be implemented.

A central trading location would be IMHO detrimental to the economy as it would make it rather easy to corner the market for particular commodities.

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

What is this thread even about anymore?

Is it about getting gold? Is it about farming? Is it another tired argument for having a central ah?

It’s all over the place.

The subject keeps going off topic whenever someone brings an irrelevant notion to the table that was never

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

You look at it from the wrong side. It is not false that you can easily afford everything you need just by playing the game. It isn't how much you make an hour but how much gold you need. You might be confusing want with need. You don't need gold gear until you are ready to start running vet trials and DLC dungeons. By the time you need the gold gear you have plenty of gold or supplies to either buy or make your own.
Players confuse want with need quite often. With the current market system most players can get everything the need and most of what they want. The market is strong, fluid and vibrant. It ebb and flows with supply and demand as any healthy market would. And the most important thing is changing to a central type of system would only compound the problems you are looking to address.
As others have stated it isn't about how much can be made in an hour. That will always vary some in this game and that isn't a bad thing at all. Farming gear sometimes you get lucky and get the choice weapon with the preferred trait first run. Other times it may take many runs. For consistent and steady income crafting is the way to go. You won't build up a huge surplus of gold but you can keep yourself in good gear the the desired foods/potions easily enough.
I used to make a lot of gold by doing master writs, purchasing furniture plans with the vouchers then selling those plans. Then because I had a ton of AP I started purchasing things with AP then selling them for gold. Just playing at what I enjoyed I amassed a bit of a fortune.
I am in a guild that gets a trader maybe once every two months. It isn't in a prime location but during that one week I can usually come in with over seven million gold. Again that is just by doing things I find fun. I don't go out looking for gold or for items to sell. It just happens as I play the game.

Someone's said that before you, I'm not confusing wants with needs. I do end game content. I do participate in veteran trials. You do need multiple sets for particular trials, you're not supposed to go into each trial with the same gear as each fight and mechanics are different. You do want to be fully setup in the trial so that you're not holding your team back being as you would be setup to be the best that you can be as the same is expected of them.

I do participate in PvP content where gold gear is needed, I do participate in player housing. I don't work my 9-5 job just to come home and grind like a 9-5 job doing things I don't want to do where I can play the game the way the game allows me too. Who exactly wants to get on the game and acquire gold by thieving or antiquities that is a very slow gold acquisition. Who wants to spend their days farming killing animals for light armor and medium materials just to break down for gold materials? Sure I do my daily writs all the time, but I'm not gonna play the game in ways that feels like a job outside of my real job.

Also if you feel like money isn't a necessity in this game or a real need why are you so defensive on this topic?

I'm vocal on this topic because I believe going to a centrally located economy would be devastating to the game. I push back on people that try and convince others the economy is broken and use as proof items that are not needed for most content in the game.
I've not suggested a grind of any kind other than to say grinding XP can lead to a shortage of gold because you concentrate only on the XP. I've said play the game as you want and you will get enough gold to afford the things you need.

You see a problem that doesn't exist and offer a solution that would actually create the problem you claim to want to fix.

Clearly there's a problem that exist cause I can't play it as I want as the game hinders you in so many ways is the point you're missing. Lol there's clearly a issue especially if others keep pointing it out and it's a reoccurring topic.

How specifically is your style of play being denied by the current system and how would a central market help? If it is about cheap gear a central system is not the way to go.

Glad you asked, I would be able to find everyone selling the item I'm looking for listed at the best price without wasting my time looking up TTC for one...

I would be able to sell my good a whole lot faster within the same hour instead of hours for two...

I wouldn't have to spend hours of my day searching from trader to trader looking for anything as I could look it up, everyone in the game selling that item is listed in that one place for three...

If I was unsure about the pricing of an item, I could look it up and since everyone is selling in the same place, it's simply listed from highest to lowest without huge fluctuating process for four...

An item was sold out, then there's only 1 in stock and you're unsure of the price, not a problem as you can just look at the history of what it sells on average and see if making that purchase is worth your time as a buyer for five...

You're the seller and want to sell a rare item but its sold out on the market? No more getting unreliable answers from your friends or guild mates as you can check the system and see what it normally sells for and list it a a proper price range without getting scammed for it or ripped off for six...

I can go on for a long time with this... 🤷🏾 These features are sooooooo ahead of it's time compared to this primitive system that's currently out that offers next to nothing for players...

None of that has anything to do with preventing you from playing as you wish and is really just one complaint worded several different ways. There have been suggestions to make the current system more player friendly. It could use some quality of life improvements that would allow those that enjoy the current system to continue as they are. A global market place would allow finding an item faster but that means everyone can find it faster. Rare items would be snatched up and sat on to drive up prices. It has happened in every global market game I've played.

I get that you want the perfect weapon with the perfect trait but being unable to instantly find that weapon doesn't stop you from joining in on any activity you want. The only time it matters is if you are competing for leader boards and anybody competing for leader boards has an entire team behind them to help out.

You are asking that an entire system that many players consider their end game be scrapped for convenience. A convenience that would come at a great cost as the changes proposed would wreck the economy.

Vulkunne wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Economy

What needs to change?

• The guild trader system alone is failing and in need of a massive overhaul. ESO has come out after older MMORPG's such as RuneScape, and FFXIV which have paved the way laying down ground work of what ESO should have followed and improved.
  
  
• Player's should have a feature for viewing an item's history, past sales, a list prices the item were bought/sold for including the names of the players who bought/sold the item.
  
  
• Player's should be able to find Market Boards in every country or a central trading Country/Island area that all guild traders in the game are linked too displaying all listed items in one place giving steady consistent pricing, and competitive prices.
  
  
• The idea of players traveling to one area searching for items, and seeing a whole list of that item Sounds a whole lot better than the alternative.
  
  
• Currently the alternative is using a function outside of the game such as TTC, a website used as a tool to locate desired items which may have been gone for hours, but is still listed as last seen as if the item is still at the listed location.
  
  
• The game should still require a guild to purchase a guild trader in order to sell the products as usual. This change will make every guild trader a prime location making all the guild traders bids worth the same no matter the location as the race to the bid war would be to win and obtain a guild trader. Not to find the best location.
  
  
• Prime location guild trader bids go down in price while simultaneously raising the price of all the other guild traders with terrible locations like the traders in the refuges.

How this would effect the economy?

• First and foremost, what I am suggesting is a Market Board, Not an Auction House. The difference between a Auction house and a Market Board is that Market Boards allow more freedom.
  
  
• Any item that is listed at any price, can be bought/sold without biding, exactly how guild traders work now which is first come, first served.
  
  
• The Auction House forces players to bid on the items instead of letting player flat out buy it. Market Board allows for competitive pricing and fair pricing increasing the gold rate for every player, not just the Rich Players which would be like the top 1% of the game.
  
  
• Players would never be forced to go from guild trader to trader trying to find one particular item, or better price.
  
  
• Making a Market Board or Central trading Island/Country a one stop shop increasing the quality of life as everything would be convenient for the players.
  
  
• Player's should not have to waste time traveling from guild trader to trader, country to country for endless hours searching for items.
  
  
• Less inflation as farmed items would be purchased/sold a lot faster due to undercutting and fair pricing.
  
  
• Less players being scammed, or taken advantage of as the players would have the tools IN GAME without the need of addons to have the information available to the player at all times.
  
  
• Undercutting doesn't stop sales, it only slows sales, player's who undercut get sales faster, while player's who don't budge still sell, but not as fast. All items sold cheaper listed below would bought out until the next in line is next to be sold.
  
  
• Having access to the history option will prevent players from exploiting the market placing items up at whatever unreasonable price the player wanted as players would be able to view the history of that items transaction history.
  
  An example would be a sold out item, A player holds the monopoly currently being the only individual listing the item at that time due to the item just selling out. Another player should be able to check the transaction history of the item and make a proper judgement of worth.

I thought about this and planned to respond with more, however I think to sum this up under your recommendations we would no longer have a free-market approach to the economy.

However, there's an old saying and having bought/sold many things for years with ESO, I can tell you that no matter how good or bad it gets the market will fix itself. Undercutters don't always sell. Some people choose not to undercut because they're not looking to move things fast. See there are many reasons why things work the way they do in a free-market economy and I think, although I will agree with you somewhat that there are drawbacks as well as some issues ZOS might could help us with, its better to have a freedom driven market which we have now, rather than anything centrally planned and policed for 'fairness', which will definitely lead to even greater problems.

I disagree, It would still be a fair free market, it already works in FFXIV with no issues. It also already works in RuneScape with no issues. The undercut prices don't always sell, however, they will always sell before the higher prices of that same item because who as a consumer will see a list of items being sold and choose the more expensive item verses the cheaper price of that same item? of course people will grab the cheaper listed item.

Go around asking the average player, especially on console, console players verses PC players are so broke, they're luckily to make 100k in a month, and that's the average player, it's a major issue. PC offer's far more opportunities especially with the additional help of addons.

The system simply has to change for the better especially when there's already other system out there doing it working flawlessly.

Thank you for your reply.

The only thing I would say is that ESO isn't one of those other games. This is important because some might view this as saying that ESO needs to change or conform to be like something else, ergo, that is kin to saying ESO should become something it is not. This will drive people away from your argument because some of us don't play those other games and indeed I play ESO at the expense of playing other games or doing other things right? Hahaha.

That said and I'll leave it at this, while going thru your list, again some things ZOS could help us with. But other things people could be perhaps a little more responsible for themselves and utilize mods that already exist for this purpose. So the tools are out there and its not anyone's place to educate people if they are not willing to learn. Add to that, again I noticed a pattern that suggest you (and others as well I'm certain) feel that things aren't fair.

From past experiences let me just say that fairness is a matter of the person's opinion. If you want to be treated fairly, if you want things to go your way then it start with changes that you need to make, even if there are other factors involved. Why do I say this? Because the only other option is to force others to make changes that you think are fair for everyone. And that's where the problem begins and then it gets worse when you try to police the matter. I've seen this time and time again and ultimately it leads to resentment and people rising up to put this down because once someone starts mandating what's fair for everyone I will step up and decide what is fair for myself and there is no satisfactory way to measure this between people because the concept of fairness is generally driven by feelings and not logic. Sometimes its better just to move on and understand you're dealing with a system that doesn't really favor anyone.

Maybe the problem is not with the game but with the person not willing to be responsible and learn how to adapt, learn how the market works. I've had my share of ups and downs and I didn't ask anyone to put a fix in for me I just learned from my mistakes and dealt with it, without asking anything from anyone. There's all kinds of tools out there and trade guilds with years of experience, and gold, willing to help people out but forcing something on an economy this big will not hurt the big traders it will just hold people back to protect someone else's feelings and cause even more misery.

"What needs to Change?" is a question that ideally, I believe, should start with the merchant first before going in there and forcing the rest of us to lose out on sales and opportunities, especially when these already exists for everyone. I am responsible for myself and not responsible for anyone else's education, budget, sales, bad fortune or lack of planning.

You're welcome! Thank you for your reply as well!

Yes Eso is a different game with a lot of similarities as the other games as it is an MMORPG. Mentioning the other games only serves as the proof of the stable economy that the suggestions actually works opposed to crashing argument that others have been speaking on with no actual evidence. The other games serves as on going evidence while others can't provide an MMORPG that's crashed with a similar type of market.

What type of good practice is it to not have newer and older player's best interests at heart? As games go through updates, maturity, and changes, improvements are always welcomed as well as added in over time. No game stay's the same, and this game has gone through massive changes since the release of 2014 which has made this game massively better. This game's economy system is still a victim of that old relic system that has yet to be improved on that needs to be severely updated to appeal to newer and older players moving forward into 2023 and so on.

You can't keep essentially suggesting segregation for a game where 2/3 of the platforms this game is on doesn't have access to the addons you claim player has to take responsibility for. Two of those platforms don't even have a choice to use them or not. Also the addons slows down the game making character swapping much slower depending on how many addons you have downloaded. To suggest that everyone should use addons for features that should already be in the game is an irresponsible selfish suggestion as everyone does not have access to do as such and i'm sure you can agree with me on that when broken down in that manner.

At the end of the day ESO has been in a position of losing more players then it actually gains, I love the game, but that means certain aspects of the game has to change and appeal to the players rather than giving player the middle finger. This game is a great game, has many aspects about the game that we all really gravitate too. However, i'm not gonna stand and turn the other cheek when a game has systems in place that are far outdated that needs to be updated to today's standards. In this game, or any other game I may play, suggestions will be made to better improve the game, that's what the forums are actually for is it not?!

I don't think adapting is the issue, people have already adapted to the system, can use the system as it is, that doesn't make the system any good or mean that system should stay. When this game came out, it didn't have a lot of things, an outfit system were you can save your own looks and cosmetics. people argued against that, but now we're here and it hasn't destroyed the game, and a lot of people are happy with the change. None of the suggestions I've made would negatively affect the game. Also these changes would bring more general interests to the market. Every MMORPG has a market system as it's a basic necessity for trade for players. This system is not a "Mini game" as people in this forum would call it, it's a system tool that player's use to accommodate for their needs.

Elaborate for me, what sales and opportunities would you lose out on as the player that you are in comparison to the other system that should actually yield not only the same, but better results for you? I'm listening, I really want to know. your sales rate would substantially increase. Keeping you listing at 30/30 would be more difficult for you as your products would sell out quickly rather than sitting for 30 days. I know this because i've experienced it with the other system i'm suggesting. Where's your actual proof, supporting evidence that these factors you claim actually happens in MMORPG's? Also tell me exactly how you would struggle in the new system verses the old.

Are you against other players, and newer players becoming more successful at a faster rate? Is that your real concern? What actually is your motive to debate so strongly about it, What exactly do you gain from this system that you can't gain and more from the proposed system, and how do you benefit more from this system and forcing everyone to stay on this horrid system in comparison to the proposed?

Sure as soon as you come up with a billion+ gold sink that primarily hits veteran players.

Vulkunne wrote: »

...
Maybe the problem is not with the game but with the person not willing to be responsible and learn how to adapt, learn how the market works.
...

Such a good post overall. But this is the best insight. I think the notion that the game "should" provide for oneself is one of the most widespread misconceptions.

ESO is enticing and engaging, because it gives a player the opportunity to find his game for himself. I suppose that is a great motivator for a lot of players, while being a source of a lot of inconvenience for others at the same time.
Personally, I have come to understand just how much inconvenience the current trader system actuallly creates. After all, I went through it too, once. I only forgot after I made an effort and structured my activities.
Nonetheless, players who have a problem with the guild trader system have a right to be heard. And the community shouldn't disregard their voices. However, these players should also listen, when another player shares his experience on how to deal with the problem. Mutual respect is very important.

So let me examine the main problems once again under the condition that we do not want to change the system so much that it warps or even collapses.
The main pain point is the inconvenience of finding what one needs/wants in an appropriate timeframe. Right?
The second is that selling within the current system is taking too long and is too inconvenient.
The third pain point is an allegation really, that the system is creating artificially inflated prices and other, more centralised systems would push prices down to much more affordable levels.
And the fourth is that the game "should provide" all tools and information to trade fast, efficiently and from within its own interface. The reliance on external tools is unwanted, disadvantageous and creates problems on its own.
If anyone wishes to add something at this point, feel free to comment. Let's continue otherwise. I think examining the problems in reverse order is the easiest approach.

[Point 4] Honestly, I heartedly agree in the general notion that a game should provide everything on its own. If you look at other parts of ESO, you will notice this is a general problem. ESO has terrible way of explaining its systems. Combat, Trials, Progression, Questorder, how armour sets work, the list is so long. Almost nothing is explained in an easy and understandable way. The help section is unhelpful and leaves one with more questions than it answers. This is a reality in the game. And there are threads over threads for many years now, that have this as a topic.
On the other side this lack of explanations and tutorials has promoted a lively and supportive community. And I love that. It shows that a huge part of our community is using this game as a social platform to engage with and support each other. The forums are also a part of that. And I hope that this will never change.
But also lets take the discussion of community tools like TTC into the next point.

[Point 3] Lets talk about TTC for a moment. It is a browser based platform, on which you can search for specific items and get references for prices. It has an ingame interface that hooks into the item information pop up and displays a few important infos of that specific item. It also comes with a companion app, that updates the displayed info everyime you run it. Pretty convenient, right? Well it is. That is why a oot of players use it on PC. And there is the point number 4 again. Console players are fresh out of luck in that convenience department. TTC just doesn't work well for them. If ESO had that feature it would provide massive QoL improvements for console players. There is bo denying that. But let's also point out that prices on console are way down from what they are on PC per item. And across the board, too. It is not just crafting mats or furnishing plans.
So maybe the guild trader system is capable of creating lower prices, after all. And honestly this argument comes up a lot, too. That it is the tools like TTC and MM, or ATT that make the markets bloat and not the lack thereof. That parallel is not easily debunked and pretty hard to deny.
On the other hand do we even want low prices for everything? Are new furnishing plans and old style pages, that do not drop anymore supposed to be had for a cheap penny? I disagree. They are supposed to be pricy, because they are rare. In some cases very, very rare. And these higher prices usually represent the amount of labour one has to put in to acquire that rare item. Furnishing mats are a good example. Compared to the demand, the drop rates are ridiculously low. Toxicly even, I would say.
It is, I think, easy to understand that the guild trader system itself is not the main culprit here. But rather the low drop rates of rarer items and the high demand of them.
Because lets still be honest and talk about the demand for a sec. Why do players want to buy fancy stuff? Sumple. The alternative ways of acquisition are tenuous at best. Painstakingly boring and time consuming/wasting is what will come to most players mind. Just think of PvP outfit styles and the 20 days of pvp one has to do for one armour page. Or the 40 days of pvp for one weapon style page. I'll lwt you do the math how long anyone has to pvp for a complete set.
Ri
Di
Cu
Lous.
And the entire reward system combined with the way ZOS utilizes the Crown store to make the most wanted items in game only avaiable through a crown store purchase, wether by crowns, seals or crystals, just creates a situation where player want to compensate by buying someyhing easy and fast for gold.
I postulate the theory, that if there were much easier ways to aquire crowns, crystals and seals, there would be less demand for the equivalent items in circulation in the guild trader system.
Summing up point number three, I contest the conclusion, that it is the guild trader system that pushes prices. It's the complex integration and interactions to other parts and outside of the game that are much larger forces in this regard. So why attack the pawn, when Queen, Bishop Knight and Tower are still in game and still unchecked? ... Moving on ...

[Point 2] This one I can again understand from the inconvenience side of the coin. One wants direct feedback to his efforts. I grind for a few hours and get the payout a week later? Not very motivating, isn't it?
But I have to say again inconvenience is a small price to pay for a working system, where your efforts are mirrored in the prices that you get.
Having to sell low to be able to sell fast, or sometimes even at all, devalues my own labour! Why in the world would I do that? Would you go to work for 10k per year when all the others are being paid 60k for the same labour? Because if one wouldn't do it himself, one shouldn't demand it of others.
A different solution is to simply ramp up the payout for random drops. Treasure items in green, blue and purple rarity could be dropping much more often and be higher valued. That would benefit the casual player, because he has more payout per hour (I still don'tlike that term), as well as it wouldn't threaten trade of highly rare items like furnishing plans and such.
I think all players have to decide themselves if they want sell low. But that decision is endangered in a centralised system. It might even be taken away entirely. After all ESO has massive servers. Not just fractured smaller servers like in other mmos, where centralised trading systems are considered working.

[Point 1] Inconvenience, the second. Or third? Who's counting anyways. It's undeniable that the fracturation of trader locations is inconvenient.
But I think what some players do not get, is that it has some major beneficial effects. To make a long argument short (I commend you for still reading at this point), the inconveniences do not outweigh the benefits. Not even by a long shot. But there is hope, because both sides can be satisfied to a degree, if we are clever about it.
The key is I think, that most naturally assume that after a global search, in whatever interface, we have to be able to facilitate the purchase from within the same menu. I contest that. One of the major benefits of the guild trader system is the fraturisation and the the need yo make the trip for a purchase. That leads to a specialisation of trader spots (prime general spots like Mournhold or Belkarth, crafting hot spots like Vivec or Leyawiin or the farming guilds that offer mats cheap in... hihi 😉). That specialization in turn is what forces the guilds into competition with each other. And that is what keeps prices somewhat in check.
In addition, it also rises the bids for guild trader spots way beyond the level of where they would land without competition for the best spots. That is important, because it makes the bidding for specialised spots a way better gold sinks than if all spots were equal, because they could be accessed without limitation through a centralised system. This point is so important for keeping the entire virtual economy of ESO healthy. And noone who followed the development of guild trader bids of the last years will deny that. Those prime spots have become freakishly expensive and lower spots go for several millions each, too.

Summoning up. The global auction house and the global market board, as presented by @King_*** , are a threat to the economy, because of the integrated purchasing function. Take that function away, make a global search function instead and we all should be fine.
Any opinions on prices and developement in each of the oposing systems is exactly that. Opinions. It is too complex and we lack a lot of important data to make any factual assessment.
And lastly, ESO is build to create a world for the individual player, where he/she can find their game. We should all have mutual respect for other players decisions to engage in one activity or another. Trading and flipping has become one of these activities, regardless of wether it was intended as one in the beginning. There should be respect for that. Not contempt.

Thanks for reading. I hope you noticed that I tried to be unbiased and to combine a lot of perspectives into one solution.
You are awesome!

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

...
Maybe the problem is not with the game but with the person not willing to be responsible and learn how to adapt, learn how the market works.
...

Such a good post overall. But this is the best insight. I think the notion that the game "should" provide for oneself is one of the most widespread misconceptions.

ESO is enticing and engaging, because it gives a player the opportunity to find his game for himself. I suppose that is a great motivator for a lot of players, while being a source of a lot of inconvenience for others at the same time.
Personally, I have come to understand just how much inconvenience the current trader system actuallly creates. After all, I went through it too, once. I only forgot after I made an effort and structured my activities.
Nonetheless, players who have a problem with the guild trader system have a right to be heard. And the community shouldn't disregard their voices. However, these players should also listen, when another player shares his experience on how to deal with the problem. Mutual respect is very important.

So let me examine the main problems once again under the condition that we do not want to change the system so much that it warps or even collapses.
The main pain point is the inconvenience of finding what one needs/wants in an appropriate timeframe. Right?
The second is that selling within the current system is taking too long and is too inconvenient.
The third pain point is an allegation really, that the system is creating artificially inflated prices and other, more centralised systems would push prices down to much more affordable levels.
And the fourth is that the game "should provide" all tools and information to trade fast, efficiently and from within its own interface. The reliance on external tools is unwanted, disadvantageous and creates problems on its own.
If anyone wishes to add something at this point, feel free to comment. Let's continue otherwise. I think examining the problems in reverse order is the easiest approach.

[Point 4] Honestly, I heartedly agree in the general notion that a game should provide everything on its own. If you look at other parts of ESO, you will notice this is a general problem. ESO has terrible way of explaining its systems. Combat, Trials, Progression, Questorder, how armour sets work, the list is so long. Almost nothing is explained in an easy and understandable way. The help section is unhelpful and leaves one with more questions than it answers. This is a reality in the game. And there are threads over threads for many years now, that have this as a topic.
On the other side this lack of explanations and tutorials has promoted a lively and supportive community. And I love that. It shows that a huge part of our community is using this game as a social platform to engage with and support each other. The forums are also a part of that. And I hope that this will never change.
But also lets take the discussion of community tools like into the next point.

[Point 3] Lets talk about TTC for a moment. It is a browser based platform, on which you can search for specific items and get references for prices. It has an ingame interface that hooks into the item information pop up and displays a few important infos of that specific item. It also comes with a companion app, that updates the displayed info everyime you run it. Pretty convenient, right? Well it is. That is why a oot of players use it on PC. And there is the point number 4 again. Console players are fresh out of luck in that convenience department. TTC just doesn't work well for them. If ESO had that feature it would provide massive QoL improvements for console players. There is bo denying that. But let's also point out that prices on console are way down from what they are on PC per item. And across the board, too. It is not just crafting mats or furnishing plans.
So maybe the guild trader system is capable of creating lower prices, after all. And honestly this argument comes up a lot, too. That it is the tools like TTC and MM, or ATT that make the markets bloat and not the lack thereof. That parallel is not easily debunked and pretty hard to deny.
On the other hand do we even want low prices for everything? Are new furnishing plans and old style pages, that do not drop anymore supposed to be had for a cheap penny? I disagree. They are supposed to be pricy, because they are rare. In some cases very, very rare. And these higher prices usually represent the amount of labour one has to put in to acquire that rare item. Furnishing mats are a good example. Compared to the demand, the drop rates are ridiculously low. Toxicly even, I would say.
It is, I think, easy to understand that the guild trader system itself is not the main culprit here. But rather the low drop rates of rarer items and the high demand of them.
Because lets still be honest and talk about the demand for a sec. Why do players want to buy fancy stuff? Sumple. The alternative ways of acquisition are tenuous at best. Painstakingly boring and time consuming/wasting is what will come to most players mind. Just think of PvP outfit styles and the 20 days of pvp one has to do for one armour page. Or the 40 days of pvp for one weapon style page. I'll lwt you do the math how long anyone has to pvp for a complete set.
Ri
Di
Cu
Lous.
And the entire reward system combined with the way ZOS utilizes the Crown store to make the most wanted items in game only avaiable through a crown store purchase, wether by crowns, seals or crystals, just creates a situation where player want to compensate by buying someyhing easy and fast for gold.
I postulate the theory, that if there were much easier ways to aquire crowns, crystals and seals, there would be less demand for the equivalent items in circulation in the guild trader system.
Summing up point number three, I contest the conclusion, that it is the guild trader system that pushes prices. It's the complex integration and interactions to other parts and outside of the game that are much larger forces in this regard. So why attack the pawn, when Queen, Bishop Knight and Tower are still in game and still unchecked? ... Moving on ...

[Point 2] This one I can again understand from the inconvenience side of the coin. One wants direct feedback to his efforts. I grind for a few hours and get the payout a week later? Not very motivating, isn't it?
But I have to say again inconvenience is a small price to pay for a working system, where your efforts are mirrored in the prices that you get.
Having to sell low to be able to sell fast, or sometimes even at all, devalues my own labour! Why in the world would I do that? Would you go to work for 10k per year when all the others are being paid 60k for the same labour? Because if one wouldn't do it himself, one shouldn't demand it of others.
A different solution is to simply ramp up the payout for random drops. Treasure items in green, blue and purple rarity could be dropping much more often and be higher valued. That would benefit the casual player, because he has more payout per hour (I still don'tlike that term), as well as it wouldn't threaten trade of highly rare items like furnishing plans and such.
I think all players have to decide themselves if they want sell low. But that decision is endangered in a centralised system. It might even be taken away entirely. After all ESO has massive servers. Not just fractured smaller servers like in other mmos, where centralised trading systems are considered working.

[Point 1] Inconvenience, the second. Or third? Who's counting anyways. It's undeniable that the fracturation of trader locations is inconvenient.
But I think what some players do not get, is that it has some major beneficial effects. To make a long argument short (I commend you for still reading at this point), the inconveniences do not outweigh the benefits. Not even by a long shot. But there is hope, because both sides can be satisfied to a degree, if we are clever about it.
The key is I think, that most naturally assume that after a global search, in whatever interface, we have to be able to facilitate the purchase from within the same menu. I contest that. One of the major benefits of the guild trader system is the fraturisation and the the need yo make the trip for a purchase. That leads to a specialisation of trader spots (prime general spots like Mournhold or Belkarth, crafting hot spots like Vivec or Leyawiin or the farming guilds that offer mats cheap in... hihi 😉). That specialization in turn is what forces the guilds into competition with each other. And that is what keeps prices somewhat in check.
In addition, it also rises the bids for guild trader spots way beyond the level of where they would land without competition for the best spots. That is important, because it makes the bidding for specialised spots a way better gold sinks than if all spots were equal, because they could be accessed without limitation through a centralised system. This point is so important for keeping the entire virtual economy of ESO healthy. And noone who followed the development of guild trader bids of the last years will deny that. Those prime spots have become freakishly expensive and lower spots go for several millions each, too.

Summoning up. The global auction house and the global market board, as presented by @King_*** , are a threat to the economy, because of the integrated purchasing function. Take that function away, make a global search function instead and we all should be fine.
Any opinions on prices and developement in each of the oposing systems is exactly that. Opinions. It is too complex and we lack a lot of important data to make any factual assessment.
And lastly, ESO is build to create a world for the individual player, where he/she can find their game. We should all have mutual respect for other players decisions to engage in one activity or another. Trading and flipping has become one of these activities, regardless of wether it was intended as one in the beginning. There should be respect for that. Not contempt.

Thanks for reading. I hope you noticed that I tried to be unbiased and to combine a lot of perspectives into one solution.
You are awesome!

Very good. This is how it begins, including the OPs posts as well, this entire discussion. Lets talk about what is and identify what variable(s) may exist and how these contribute to the issue at hand first as well as listening to both sides and seeing what needs to be done vs maybe what we want to do.

Wayshrine fees must be kept because they are a gold sink. Gold sinks aren't flaws, they are necessary part of combating inflation.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Wayshrine fees must be kept because they are a gold sink. Gold sinks aren't flaws, they are necessary part of combating inflation.

110% agree. I am in the minority that feel things like Wayshrines and armor repair costs should actually increase in cost. I personally think most players have too much in-game gold... BUT, I understand why that is not a popular opinion.

Every single person I have taught to use the guild traders system goes from being broke -> having more gold than they know what to do with. In my experience, players without gold are not participating in guild traders or selling items. Those same players also want to use the guild trader system to purchase items... which to me seems entirely hypocritical.

Nothing sold in guild traders cannot also be attained by you as a player. You want the convenience of guild traders, but don't want to play that part of the game. Then, you have no say in how it should function. You are not participating in both side (selling & buying) so you are biased right off the bat.