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Would you like a trial finder?
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Heelie✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trialsI don't think a group finder where you are placed with randoms will work, tons of players don't perform their roles good enough to clear normal trials. They would have to introduce a much much lower tier of normal trials. And also some sort of instance bonus for every wipe like 2% more dmg. Maybe you would just get green gear from this version. Another Idea is a tool closer to the guild finder "like other people also suggest in this thread", where groups can post that they need two dds x amount of dmg, experience x achievement etc. One idea favors newer players whom I don't think will use this tool a lot, because just that player base just don't do this content a lot. The other favors a greater player base of players who like to pug. I think the latter is more important. There are a great many players that primarily pug trials already.Most OwOrated healer of all time0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for normal trials onlyEven organized pugs wipe on normal trials at times, so I fear what just random matchmaking would do. Fake Tanks and Healers would make a normal Trial impossible. But, I'd still support one, if the finder had requirements.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
sPark101✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsspartaxoxo wrote: »Yes. If people can PUG in Craglorn and then spam random guilds and zone chats, they can run using a trial finder. There's far too much difficulty it putting together PUGs.
what does PUG mean?
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CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsspartaxoxo wrote: »Yes. If people can PUG in Craglorn and then spam random guilds and zone chats, they can run using a trial finder. There's far too much difficulty it putting together PUGs.
what does PUG mean?
Pick Up Group
It's a group formed on the fly with people you don't know.1 -
Kusto✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for normal trials onlyPeople who are against it and say trial finder even for normals would be a disaster, let me ask you this: How is it any different what we do currently? If I type in Craglorn lets say "LFM 1 tank 2 heals 8 dps for nCR". You say that group finder can give you fake roles or bad players. But how do you know who you're getting when people whisper you? Do you interview them, ask clears/ parses for normals lol? You dont. You just invite everyone to group and you dont know what you get until in trial. So there may aswell be a group finder for normals to make it easier.5 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trialsPeople who are against it and say trial finder even for normals would be a disaster, let me ask you this: How is it any different what we do currently? If I type in Craglorn lets say "LFM 1 tank 2 heals 8 dps for nCR". You say that group finder can give you fake roles or bad players. But how do you know who you're getting when people whisper you? Do you interview them, ask clears/ parses for normals lol? You dont. You just invite everyone to group and you dont know what you get until in trial. So there may aswell be a group finder for normals to make it easier.
With the current system a fake tank can be kicked by a single person, the group leader. With a finder, I would assume you need at least 7 people to agree to kick that fake tank so if they don't, the entire group might have to break up instead. That's one difference in how fake roles would need to be dealt with.2 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsredspecter23 wrote: »People who are against it and say trial finder even for normals would be a disaster, let me ask you this: How is it any different what we do currently? If I type in Craglorn lets say "LFM 1 tank 2 heals 8 dps for nCR". You say that group finder can give you fake roles or bad players. But how do you know who you're getting when people whisper you? Do you interview them, ask clears/ parses for normals lol? You dont. You just invite everyone to group and you dont know what you get until in trial. So there may aswell be a group finder for normals to make it easier.
With the current system a fake tank can be kicked by a single person, the group leader. With a finder, I would assume you need at least 7 people to agree to kick that fake tank so if they don't, the entire group might have to break up instead. That's one difference in how fake roles would need to be dealt with.
Some good suggestions have already been made in regards to fake roles such as a trial finder that allows you control over your group the same way you have when you form pugs on your own. With a trial finder, this process would be quicker bc you're not confined to 1 instance of a zone. Instead, you're reaching the entire interested online player base.
A trial finder with two options of creating a group as lead or joining an existing group would be no different than our current way of making pugs.2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
In games that have GF most groups are pre-made and rarely use the GF to fill a spot. When they do it is filling one spot and it does not matter much how bad that random player is because the pre-made can often carry them.
Of the times I tried to see if the GF would put me into a group if I queued solo I was placed into groups that were exactly what I asked for, random. They failed because none of them had a clue what to do. They would not even clear the first boss two of the times and it is normally easy.
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
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Kusto✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for normal trials only
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?6 -
svendf✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsredspecter23 wrote: »People who are against it and say trial finder even for normals would be a disaster, let me ask you this: How is it any different what we do currently? If I type in Craglorn lets say "LFM 1 tank 2 heals 8 dps for nCR". You say that group finder can give you fake roles or bad players. But how do you know who you're getting when people whisper you? Do you interview them, ask clears/ parses for normals lol? You dont. You just invite everyone to group and you dont know what you get until in trial. So there may aswell be a group finder for normals to make it easier.
With the current system a fake tank can be kicked by a single person, the group leader. With a finder, I would assume you need at least 7 people to agree to kick that fake tank so if they don't, the entire group might have to break up instead. That's one difference in how fake roles would need to be dealt with.
Im possitive to locking the roles. Assume a tool like this would be something ZOS would agree to. It should be the raidlead, who make the call, who to kick. His/her alone. You just have to invite two or three friends to screw the vote kick.
Why give the fake roles the possibility in the first place ? You just need one f"freind" in gf to counter a vote kick
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?
@Kusto
This thread is about GF groups. Not pug groups. There is a fundamental difference between the two types of groups. The facts laid out in the first two paragraphs of my post made that clear.
Edited by Amottica on November 10, 2022 11:34AM3 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - for normal trials onlyArenas and normals would be fine. I don't see vets getting much use by actual veteran players. Too many newbies would que hoping to get a carry for perfected gear and the teams would just disband.3 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?
@Kusto
This thread is about GF groups. Not pug groups. There is a fundamental difference between the two types of groups. The facts laid out in the first two paragraphs of my post made that clear.
What's the difference between a pug you've made yourself the current way (LFG in guild, zone, friends, Discord) and a pug formed with a trial finder that allows you to do that exact same thing but gives you access to more people?
It's obvious from the replies that no one wants a trial finder exactly like the dungeon finder. Instead, suggestions for a trial finder with options to either create a raid as lead with the same options you have now or just joining someone else's raid.
Again, my experience in ESO is I run pug raids daily, so I know exactly how time consuming it can be just to form a raid, and I also know we need a tool or something to help with this. It can take longer to form a raid than it does to actually run through the trial, and I've often just went ahead with 10 or 11 people.
Anyway, it seems there's more interest in this than not, so I hope ZOS at least considers it.
Edited by CrashTest on November 10, 2022 3:53PM6 -
Dragonredux✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for normal trials onlyI voted in response to the OP.
Personally, I believe that a finder is adequate for normal trials. Even if a new member joins, some explanations and adjustments may be necessary, and most people will most likely clear it. I'm not concerned about fake roles in a trial. People are more likely to kick a deadweight fake tank/healer because you actually need some kind of setup because the bosses do damage (Also a no taunt Sunspire sounds fun).
Veteran, however, I believe we need something akin to FF14's party finder, where you can set your own expectations.
Whether this group is a practice/prog party or a clear/reclear party, because if we treat it like dungeon finder, we'll have people with a wide range of experience. As a result, we have mechanics where one person can wipe the group, and we haven't even discussed the dps checks yet. This just seems like a big clown fiesta waiting to happen., although the youtube videos or stream could be really funny.
Also, assuming rewards are attached to the finder and such, you'll probably get people leaving a trial simply because it's not a Craglorn trial.Edited by Dragonredux on November 10, 2022 10:31PM1 -
Kappachi✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsYes please, this was the main way I did operations ( trials ) in swtor, and it was fun, plus was a nice way to meet groups willing to group later for vet stuff.
In SWTOR, people formed groups before queueing so it was not a GF group. Rarely would they queue with a mostly filled group, but even then most of the group was pre-made. Completely random groups failed.
It has always been this way since they added raids and is still this way.
Most completely random vet DLC dungeon groups fail, but I keep playing them. It's fun to fail and to learn, explaining the mechanics is part of the social experience of an MMO and if you still can't complete it then you go next, you still got all the loot and such up to the point you made it to and all of that is very fun to me.4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?
@Kusto
This thread is about GF groups. Not pug groups. There is a fundamental difference between the two types of groups. The facts laid out in the first two paragraphs of my post made that clear.
What's the difference between a pug you've made yourself the current way (LFG in guild, zone, friends, Discord) and a pug formed with a trial finder that allows you to do that exact same thing but gives you access to more people?
I would suggest going back and reading my previous posts. Some of the comments I made do speak to what is different.
I will boil it down to the very basics just because I am nice. When I form a group I have some control over what the group looks like. When GF forms a group the group is completely random and if more likely to be lower-skilled and able players.
This fact is proven by how GF dungeon groups are often of lower quality than even zone pug groups I have been in. I will again repeat that I have come across, via the GF, a player of high CP on a melee character that was insistent they did not have an interrupt. Having an interrupt is the most basic ability in the game which demonstrates the player's competence.
Glad I could help.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trialsYes please, this was the main way I did operations ( trials ) in swtor, and it was fun, plus was a nice way to meet groups willing to group later for vet stuff.
In SWTOR, people formed groups before queueing so it was not a GF group. Rarely would they queue with a mostly filled group, but even then most of the group was pre-made. Completely random groups failed.
It has always been this way since they added raids and is still this way.
Most completely random vet DLC dungeon groups fail, but I keep playing them. It's fun to fail and to learn, explaining the mechanics is part of the social experience of an MMO and if you still can't complete it then you go next, you still got all the loot and such up to the point you made it to and all of that is very fun to me.
Oh, I learned much from running with random GF groups. I learned I have more important things to do than to waste my time with players that are not interested in helping themselves.
Actually learning to play the game better does not come from that waste of time but form players that actually ahve an idea of how to play.
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Morgaledh✭✭✭I’d rather see a story mode/solo version of the trial as I only care for the story. Loot isn’t even secondary.
The raid finder in WoW is one of the best features they added and ESO is even more built for that sorta thing as it lacks any form of server community.
WoW did something sort of in-between. The WoW raid finder raid is a less difficult raid (but not story mode), the mobs aren't as bad, etc. They drop all of the same loot, but lower powered (so you'd get a "raid finder wep" instead of a "10-man wep" or whatever.) No one really cared, they wanted to do the raid mainly just to do it, were glad to get cool drops even if they weren't the full powered ones, and for the most part it was a success.
Of course, WoW is role-locked, so you always have x number of tanks (actual tanks), x of dps (actual ditto), x of heals (ditto). That is the one thing that is necessary, and ESO doesn't have that and really, can't have it, given how they want to run the roles. Fine choice, different game, but affects what we can and can't have here.
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FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsSomething to make it far easier then having to hunt for people for 30 mins3 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trials
Normal trials and craglorn vets barely require any communication, most of mechanics could be easily done by random groups. No harm in adding more convenient option as opposed to standing in craglorn and spamming in chat.By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.
1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.
2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.
3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.
I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.
2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 dds is fine for all but certain hm dlc trials, which you won’t do through finder so this point is irrelevant.
All mechanics could be quickly explained through communication within the group if it’s even necessary, same for assigning specific roles for each players. Craglorn pugs essentially have the same tools as group finder ones and clearing all trials on normal with no troubles, occasionally even getting them done on vet.
Don’t like it, don’t use it.
I have seen all vet trials cleared via craglorn too1 -
svendf✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsredspecter23 wrote: »People who are against it and say trial finder even for normals would be a disaster, let me ask you this: How is it any different what we do currently? If I type in Craglorn lets say "LFM 1 tank 2 heals 8 dps for nCR". You say that group finder can give you fake roles or bad players. But how do you know who you're getting when people whisper you? Do you interview them, ask clears/ parses for normals lol? You dont. You just invite everyone to group and you dont know what you get until in trial. So there may aswell be a group finder for normals to make it easier.
With the current system a fake tank can be kicked by a single person, the group leader. With a finder, I would assume you need at least 7 people to agree to kick that fake tank so if they don't, the entire group might have to break up instead. That's one difference in how fake roles would need to be dealt with.
Im possitive to locking the roles. Assume a tool like this would be something ZOS would agree to. It should be the raidlead, who make the call, who to kick. His/her alone. You just have to invite two or three friends to screw the vote kick.
Why give the fake roles the possibility in the first place ? You just need one f"freind" in gf to counter a vote kick
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svendf✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsI’d rather see a story mode/solo version of the trial as I only care for the story. Loot isn’t even secondary.
The raid finder in WoW is one of the best features they added and ESO is even more built for that sorta thing as it lacks any form of server community.
WoW did something sort of in-between. The WoW raid finder raid is a less difficult raid (but not story mode), the mobs aren't as bad, etc. They drop all of the same loot, but lower powered (so you'd get a "raid finder wep" instead of a "10-man wep" or whatever.) No one really cared, they wanted to do the raid mainly just to do it, were glad to get cool drops even if they weren't the full powered ones, and for the most part it was a success.
Of course, WoW is role-locked, so you always have x number of tanks (actual tanks), x of dps (actual ditto), x of heals (ditto). That is the one thing that is necessary, and ESO doesn't have that and really, can't have it, given how they want to run the roles. Fine choice, different game, but affects what we can and can't have here.
I agree in what you said. You got a point. As much as I feel a kind of Partyfinder is the way to go. I also believe the change ESO have to go through, are too much. I don´t know if it´s the role less game they cater for, because they seems to lay low on that topic. They have mentioned, that they wanna people to be free in how to play. But where is that freedom if you have to go through your guild ? I have never been in a game, where people can blast, through a dungeon (if you got the power for it) and leave people behind. Letting peoplle que up on discord and hope for luck to be the next healer, tank or DD for the trial of the week. More access ? More freedom ?. I beleive thay have corned themself. So left is spitting out content.
Peace out1 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?
@Kusto
This thread is about GF groups. Not pug groups. There is a fundamental difference between the two types of groups. The facts laid out in the first two paragraphs of my post made that clear.
What's the difference between a pug you've made yourself the current way (LFG in guild, zone, friends, Discord) and a pug formed with a trial finder that allows you to do that exact same thing but gives you access to more people?
I would suggest going back and reading my previous posts. Some of the comments I made do speak to what is different.
I will boil it down to the very basics just because I am nice. When I form a group I have some control over what the group looks like. When GF forms a group the group is completely random and if more likely to be lower-skilled and able players.
This fact is proven by how GF dungeon groups are often of lower quality than even zone pug groups I have been in. I will again repeat that I have come across, via the GF, a player of high CP on a melee character that was insistent they did not have an interrupt. Having an interrupt is the most basic ability in the game which demonstrates the player's competence.
Glad I could help.
And I suggest you read what I and others are actually saying bc you keep saying it's going to be like current dungeon finder and AlL pUgS aRe MoRoNs then you attack those strawmen and smugly think you've somehow made a valid constructive contribution to the conversation.
I'll repeat it again: no one here is suggesting a trial finder exactly like the current dungeon finder.
What we're asking for is a tool that's basically an extension of the way we do things now, so group leads retain control of group function and composition, and if you're just looking to join, then you can put yourself out there or join an existing raid that's forming. This is absolutely no different than what we currently do except it gives us access to more interested players.
It's obvious at this point you have no current experience starting pug raids, so you have no idea what it currently takes and that the majority of the time runs go well even with inexperienced players in raid.
Also, your cynical condescending view of pug players is appalling. Never forget those are real people behind those characters on screen. In my experience (I run daily pug raids, and there's always a few new people or people who've just been thru a few times) people are dying simply bc they don't know mechs, and they do just fine if I explain. I often get tells from grateful players afterwards.Edited by CrashTest on November 11, 2022 4:27PM5 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?
@Kusto
This thread is about GF groups. Not pug groups. There is a fundamental difference between the two types of groups. The facts laid out in the first two paragraphs of my post made that clear.
What's the difference between a pug you've made yourself the current way (LFG in guild, zone, friends, Discord) and a pug formed with a trial finder that allows you to do that exact same thing but gives you access to more people?
I would suggest going back and reading my previous posts. Some of the comments I made do speak to what is different.
I will boil it down to the very basics just because I am nice. When I form a group I have some control over what the group looks like. When GF forms a group the group is completely random and if more likely to be lower-skilled and able players.
This fact is proven by how GF dungeon groups are often of lower quality than even zone pug groups I have been in. I will again repeat that I have come across, via the GF, a player of high CP on a melee character that was insistent they did not have an interrupt. Having an interrupt is the most basic ability in the game which demonstrates the player's competence.
Glad I could help.
And I suggest you read what I and others are actually saying bc you keep saying it's going to be like current dungeon finder
It will be worse. I have experienced raid GF groups in other games so I speak from real experience. It is just being hopeful to think it would be different.
In the end, you are entitled to your opinion just as I am and this is the most definitive and accurate statement in this entire thread.
Regards,
Edited by Amottica on November 11, 2022 7:12PM0 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsIt will be worse. I have experienced raid GF groups in other games so I speak from real experience. It is just being hopeful to think it would be different.
In the end, you are entitled to your opinion just as I am and this is the most definitive and accurate statement in this entire thread.
Regards,
"It will be worse." Wow, that's some incredible crystal ball you must have there, to make such an absolute statement about something that doesn't even exist.
"I have experience raid GF groups in other games." Do these games have names? Does the system work like ESO's dungeon finder, or is it more like the LFG board 90% of the people here are suggesting (Especially since you still haven't said anything to indicate you even understand that's what we're asking for)?
What exactly is it that makes you so vehemently opposed to giving players more options to find other players to play with? Why is it better to force players to outside sources like Discord to make groups in-game? What makes you so confident that guilds are going to be great for everyone who tries them?
I can tell you from my experience that guilds don't work for everyone. An inconsistent work schedule with a mostly P.M. job ensures I'm not around for most scheduled raids. Even in a massive guild like The Gaming Council who I was with for a while didn't have enough schedules runs for me to make any kind of consistent appearance. By contrast, I actually had great success with Project Vitality for the short time it was active. However it faded fast, and even in an environment that was designated for teaching, touting "no build reqs" as one of their main draws, they still had issues with toxic lead raids and a generally exclusive progression path.
There is no "one size fits all" solution here, which is why it's ideal to have multiple routes to funnel people into endgame, especially if the endgame community is dwindling as rapidly as everyone here claims.
6 -
SpiritKitten✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for normal trials onlyEvery trial needs a raid leader...how do you solve this with a group finder?0 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes - for normal trials onlySpiritKitten wrote: »Every trial needs a raid leader...how do you solve this with a group finder?
Someone starts the group finding, and they will be leader by default. I.e. exactly like it works with Craglorn pugs now.3 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - for both vet/normal trialsKinda off topic, but relevant. Just wanted to drop a link to an ESO Discord (not mine) for all those here who've said they're interested in trying trials.
Once you join, you can go straight to the guild advert section and browse for anything that fits you or just look around bc it's a great resource. Most trial guild discords don't require guild membership and have open raids that anyone can join, so don't be worried about joining them and asking.
Contrary to popular belief, most endgamers aren't toxic trash heaps.
Most don't berate or look down on anyone just starting out or anyone who doesn't know mechs. Instead, we're more than willing teach you mechs. Just look at the majority of ESO guides out there - they're made by endgamers.
We love it when new people join endgame - the more, the merrier - so come on over.
4 -
Kappachi✭✭✭✭✭Yes - for both vet/normal trials
Yes, that's the whole point of a finder: to fill when needed and on your own schedule when you can't make guild raid time or don't get a spot. It's a useful tool for those who want to use it. If you're averse for any reason, just don't use it. It will not affect you."Why don't you just join a guild???"
1) People who say this are obviously not regularly playing endgame bc if you were you'd know that guild trial rosters often fill with non guildies and being in a guild doesn't guarantee you a spot in raid.
Guild trial rosters fill with non-guildies pretty much if they cannot get someone from the guild. So this is a non-issue most of the time when their are people looking to go into the raid.
Same with it not being guaranteed a spot in the raid. If there are enough to form a second group then that will likely happen. Those that show interest can be brought into the raid the next time.
What's your current experience with this? Sincere question bc I see this argument a lot, but in my experience, 7 out of 10 runs I lead are fine.You get out of this what you put into it which is why random GF groups for raids are often very bad which is why adding such a feature is bad for business.
My experience is I run pug raids daily and I pull from guild, friends, Craglorn, and different zones. A trial finder or global chat across all instances of a specific zone would be super helpful for similar players.
edit to add: PC NA
Considering the experience in ESO random dungeon groups is worse than in other MMORPGs I have played it would be an even worse train wreck here and the reason why adding it would be one of the worse business decisions Zenimax has ever made. Case in point of the low-quality ESO player that can be found via GF, I have been in a dungeon group where we had a pug of high CP, melee stamina, that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Have fun in a random dungeon with a group like him.
Sounds like you haven't pugged any trials at all and just assuming its gonna be bad. I pug them all the time, for years, and I've NEVER seen any normal trial fail. There's few wipes sometimes in Cloudrest if people mess up portal or no one goes in but next try they get it done. Normals are just so easy that even if everyone only does 10k dps you will still clear. Most of the mechanics doesn't even happen on normal or when it does, it doesn't matter much. Trials are basically 12 man dungeons. You get normal dungeons done just fine via group finder can you?
@Kusto
This thread is about GF groups. Not pug groups. There is a fundamental difference between the two types of groups. The facts laid out in the first two paragraphs of my post made that clear.
What's the difference between a pug you've made yourself the current way (LFG in guild, zone, friends, Discord) and a pug formed with a trial finder that allows you to do that exact same thing but gives you access to more people?
I would suggest going back and reading my previous posts. Some of the comments I made do speak to what is different.
I will boil it down to the very basics just because I am nice. When I form a group I have some control over what the group looks like. When GF forms a group the group is completely random and if more likely to be lower-skilled and able players.
This fact is proven by how GF dungeon groups are often of lower quality than even zone pug groups I have been in. I will again repeat that I have come across, via the GF, a player of high CP on a melee character that was insistent they did not have an interrupt. Having an interrupt is the most basic ability in the game which demonstrates the player's competence.
Glad I could help.
And I suggest you read what I and others are actually saying bc you keep saying it's going to be like current dungeon finder and AlL pUgS aRe MoRoNs then you attack those strawmen and smugly think you've somehow made a valid constructive contribution to the conversation.
I'll repeat it again: no one here is suggesting a trial finder exactly like the current dungeon finder.
What we're asking for is a tool that's basically an extension of the way we do things now, so group leads retain control of group function and composition, and if you're just looking to join, then you can put yourself out there or join an existing raid that's forming. This is absolutely no different than what we currently do except it gives us access to more interested players.
It's obvious at this point you have no current experience starting pug raids, so you have no idea what it currently takes and that the majority of the time runs go well even with inexperienced players in raid.
Also, your cynical condescending view of pug players is appalling. Never forget those are real people behind those characters on screen. In my experience (I run daily pug raids, and there's always a few new people or people who've just been thru a few times) people are dying simply bc they don't know mechs, and they do just fine if I explain. I often get tells from grateful players afterwards.
eh? I want a simple trial matchmaker similar to the dungeon finder/battlegrounds match finder we have not, so it's not "no one"0
