Would you like a trial finder?

FelisCatus

For normal pugs or vet pugs. I'm suggesting this because I would. I usually prefer pugs as I find guilds to be too strict and too regimented on when they run stuff and who they let join run stuff. I'm sure the common counter argument will be "oh but vet pugs always fail". However if you can queue vet dungeons using a party finder, why not trials? The benefit of this to me would be that it allows people organise group content on a whim and independent of guilds without the confines of instances and using zone chat to find people. This means you could queue from any zone rather than having to spam craglorn or guilds. I think for largely solo players like me who shy away from guilds this would be a welcome addition. I think this is a better alternative to people spamming craglorn chat. I think it would also be a great way to quickly fill a trial run with missing roles. Another downside I could see would be fake healers or tanks but you get those anyway even with dungeons.

aaisoaho

No - for both vet/normal trials

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

tonyblack

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

Normal trials and craglorn vets barely require any communication, most of mechanics could be easily done by random groups. No harm in adding more convenient option as opposed to standing in craglorn and spamming in chat.

2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 dds is fine for all but certain hm dlc trials, which you won’t do through finder so this point is irrelevant.

All mechanics could be quickly explained through communication within the group if it’s even necessary, same for assigning specific roles for each players. Craglorn pugs essentially have the same tools as group finder ones and clearing all trials on normal with no troubles, occasionally even getting them done on vet.

Don’t like it, don’t use it.

Kappachi

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

The only reason I haven't done trials so far is because they require the immense amount of time to set up a group manually with using zone chat and waiting sometimes 2 hours or more to get all the players you need to fill if you're not in a guild specifically for that purpose and with people leaving after waiting too long/etc...

If there was a trial finder then I could finally do the only content in the game that I haven't had a chance to experience yet and I'd rather enjoy that.

Crimsonwolf666

Yes - for normal trials only

I wouldn't mind a group finder for trials...especially cuz we have trolls or cheaters mentioning in zone chat how they solo trials...., but from experience, I do know that trials require more coordination...1 person can F*** up the entire success of the trial. So this is hard to decide whether its a good or bad thing.

FluffyBird

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

Yes. It's not that different from lfg in Craglorn chat except it wouldn't be limited to one instance and one could queue for several trial at once if they'd want to.

Although I'm not sure how it could handle options in composition (like, number of healers/tanks isn't always the same) and it should have a warning for HoF, something like "Please, be aware that your grandchildren may be the ones accepting the ready check and notify them accordingly"

colossalvoids

No - for both vet/normal trials

Too many problems and not that much benefit. I can hardly see them doing it.

The only way I can imagine it in eso is some kind of open cross-zones board / chat for that matter, not an actual "finder".

spartaxoxo

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

Yes. If people can PUG in Craglorn and then spam random guilds and zone chats, they can run using a trial finder. There's far too much difficulty it putting together PUGs.

Arthtur

Yes - for normal trials only

For normals - whatever.
For vet trials? No.
Creating group in Craglorn lets you "check" for some achievements to make sure X player knows what he is doing. In Finder u dont have this ability.
Do u know how there are "fake DDs" in vet dungeons? It would be the same with vet trial finder. Players who never were in vet trials, like vHRC, would queue for vRG or vCR because they saw Perfected Bahsei/Perfected Relequen in parse video. It would not have a happy ending. Even when players know mechs its hard sometimes to find 4 to do them. When nobody know mechs? Have fun.
I know how easy is to fail a trial because of 1 player. I saw it many times when 1 player was wiping entire group... And with voting for kicking? That would be fun...
So again, for normal trials sure. For vet no.

Uvi_AUT

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

I play the game since 2014 and I never did a single Trial, precicely because of the lack of a Finder-Tool.

My playtimes are incompatible with organized group content and I dont like doing the whole early 2000s spam in General Chat-Thing.

My guess would be I am like 90% of the playerbase, since only 10% participate in Trialcontent.

So its really a no brainer to introduce a Finder.

Tommy_The_Gun

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

I do not understand why Arenas and Trials are not in the group finder to begin with.

We can chose DLC Vet dungeons - that can be quite difficult (so it can no be the difficulty that is the factor here), but not Arenas and Trials. When BGs were added to the game, the group finder support was also added. So again - very inconsistent to have "some" group content supported by group finder, but "some" is for some reason not supported. And it is like 50% of the type of content. We can chose Dungeons & BGs, but we can not chose Arenas & Trials. Why not ? Arenas are especially weird as those are also 4-man content, so no need to even design different MM system.

svendf

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

An MMO with any selfrespect have these tools. People use these tools outside guilds to meet other people and try other content.

In other MMO´s spartyfinders are working very well. Will ESO get one ? No idea. For now you are stuck with your guild and/or Craglorn.

Anifaas

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

It would be a great way to help us noobs get started with Trials. Anything to help new players start making all the mistakes they need to be able to make in order to learn the ropes would be appreciated and beneficial to the overall health of the game.

mocap

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder

after your examples, the conclusion is obvious: make only a few trials available for TFinder and add the rest gradually or not add them at all.

Also ZOS can made an achivement check while searching which should add only those who have already passed the trial on at least normal difficulty. Although in this case it is easy to predict the howls of the players that this is elitism, hypocrisy, etc., etc.

deleted221106-002999

Anifaas wrote: »

It would be a great way to help us noobs get started with Trials. Anything to help new players start making all the mistakes they need to be able to make in order to learn the ropes would be appreciated and beneficial to the overall health of the game.

It probably wouldn't though. Guilds, usually social, that run a weekly normal trial or two are the easiest way to get started and to learn since they usually don't have more requirements than 'show up'.

I get that such setups may be intimidating to some players but there's not much difference between typing 'x' or '+' in guild chat to join the trial than it is to click some random finder with the obvious advantage with guilds that you at least have some passing familiarity with your guild mates and the tank and healers are likely to be at least adequate or non-fake.

Most of these kind of guilds only ask for listen only ( no mic) so the lead can explain mechanics. So for those who are shy or just prefer to <remain silent> for whatever reason these kind of guilds are a great introduction to trials.

deleted221106-002999

I wouldn't be opposed to a group finder for trials, though, but I probably wouldn't use it.

Given the difficulties zos had with implementing the 4-player finder I'd imagine coding one for 12 player groups would be a nightmare.

Then there's the inevitable 'fake' role threads where players have conveniently forgotten or ignored the actual meaning of the clear and unambiguous descriptor: RANDOM...

BlueRaven

No - for both vet/normal trials

tonyblack wrote: »

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

Normal trials and craglorn vets barely require any communication, most of mechanics could be easily done by random groups. No harm in adding more convenient option as opposed to standing in craglorn and spamming in chat.

2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 dds is fine for all but certain hm dlc trials, which you won’t do through finder so this point is irrelevant.

All mechanics could be quickly explained through communication within the group if it’s even necessary, same for assigning specific roles for each players. Craglorn pugs essentially have the same tools as group finder ones and clearing all trials on normal with no troubles, occasionally even getting them done on vet.

Don’t like it, don’t use it.

I would love to watch (not participate in) a pug vMoL with no communication. Could the group even get past the first boss?

Oh! So do it again with no communication and add fake tanks.
I would even let them skip to the third boss. The twins. No communication and fake tanks! That would be hilarious. Could the group even get to 80%?

For dessert can we watch a vCR+3 with no communication? Please?

Oh! If communication is allowed I would love to see how long the group chat for vCR+3 would be as they explain all of the mechanics.

EDIT: A normal AA but two people constantly going afk for several minutes. That would be fun too.

haelgaan

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

yes, please, this.

for normal trials, and even for filling that last slot or two in a vet trial, this would be hugely helpful

for vet trials, i probably wouldn't use it much due to form from scratch, but i wouldn't deny others of that pleasure.

Amottica

No - for both vet/normal trials

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

I agree. And in my experience games that added raids to GF had to nerf the normal raids so GF groups had a chance to clear it. However, most failed because most did not know what to do.

In the end, people formed the raids before using the GF because of how failed GF groups were. That is exactly what is happening here already. As such it does not seem to be a good business move for Zenimax to develop something so bad for the game.

Amerises

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

tonyblack wrote: »

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

Normal trials and craglorn vets barely require any communication, most of mechanics could be easily done by random groups. No harm in adding more convenient option as opposed to standing in craglorn and spamming in chat.

2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 dds is fine for all but certain hm dlc trials, which you won’t do through finder so this point is irrelevant.

All mechanics could be quickly explained through communication within the group if it’s even necessary, same for assigning specific roles for each players. Craglorn pugs essentially have the same tools as group finder ones and clearing all trials on normal with no troubles, occasionally even getting them done on vet.

Don’t like it, don’t use it.

Love this, except we need a consistent working voice chat, lol.

WuffyCerulei

Yes - for normal trials only

I'm fine with a group finder for normal trials, as they aren't that hard and mechanics can be ignored. However, vet trials are a different animal. They require communication most of the time, as well as there being DPS checks. Say a group used Group Finder to do vMaw of Lorkhaj or vDreadsail Reef, and they're on the twin bosses in either. If one boss dies before the other, and the second boss isn't burned fast enough, the group will wipe. Not to mention many mechanics that require people to step away and not be parse monkeys, such as Reef Guardian, tombs on Lokkestiz, any portal mechanic, the last boss in vHoF, and more. I understand that finding PUG groups for vet trials outside of Craglorn ones can be annoying. However, there's options such as joining discords/guilds that do regular vet clears or progs of said trials. I speak from personal experience that pugging vet trials is very tedious, as you never know the skill level of someone, nor their willingness to cooperate with the raid lead or group.

CrashTest

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

Yes. I say this as someone who starts pug raids every day through Craglorn. I often have to hop zones to fill, so this would be a huge timesaver.

If your reason against it is you're afraid of horrible pugs, just don't use it and stick to guilds and making your own raids through zone chat with your own requirements.

CrashTest

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

colossalvoids wrote: »

The only way I can imagine it in eso is some kind of open cross-zones board / chat for that matter, not an actual "finder".

This would be a good option as well.

Hapexamendios

No - for both vet/normal trials

I wouldn't use it. Prefer to go with guild mates.

AvalonRanger

No - for both vet/normal trials

Once I thought that trial group finder is good idea. But now, I don't think so.

I usually play random normal dungeon running for gear collection. And I'm tank mainly.
Sadly, 80% DPS and fake healer who I met in random grouping are brain dead players.
They ignore "common gimmick" mostly, and let the people die. So sometimes,
I must do solo boss fighting. Need extremely long time without decent team mate.
Or, wiped everyone, because people too much ignore lethal mechanism.

(common gimmick=>>)
>avoiding deadly AoE
>DPS must take down deadly totem which fire projectile.
>bashing sign to avoid unwelcome situation
>forget press "X" in certain situation or on the green circle
>nonsense fake tank or healer

Some cheating faker is out of problem. But actually say, there're not much mechanic
training ground in the ESO. Mixing extremely unexperienced player with trained player
will be huge problem mostly.

Moreover, trial is not so major contents in the ESO. It's a just optional.
Not everybody want to play those contents also.

So, i think trial grouping tool is not so important. We don't need it.
Just do it with your friendly mate.

stevenyaub16_ESO

Yes - for normal trials only

Sure, why not.

Even though the vet version would end up being unusable due to failing most of the time.

Malthorne

Yes - for normal trials only

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

A trial finder/raid finder works just fine in every other mmo that has one. Don’t see why it would be any different for ESO.

Caligamy_ESO

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

Malthorne wrote: »

aaisoaho wrote: »

By my experience, trials require way too much organisation to really be viable for a group finder.

1. Group composition
The required group composition varies from trial to trial, and sometimes even on what you are aiming for. Usually it is 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 damage dealers, but Asylum Sanctorium you might opt for 1 tank instead. In Cloudrest, on normal you might be fine with 1 tank, but on vet you need 2 or 3 tanks depending on how many bosses you fight at once.

2. Portal Mechanics
Most of the trials have portal mechanics, that requires 1-4 players to enter a portal and kill something in there, or else the group wipes. With finder group, these would be destined to fail, because understandably not all want to carry the weight of "pass or fail the whole group". Sometimes even with normal Cloudrest +0 zone chat groups the groups don't have willing people for the portal mechanic (and too low of a group dps to skip it) making the trial impossible - it'd be a disaster on finder.

3. Specialised roles in tactics
Without organising, how could the finder groups decide on which healer is the tomb healer, the kite healer, the group healer, the main tank, the off tank and so on and so forth? Some fights requires some specialisation in the role rendering generic roling near impossible. Like for example, in Lokkestiiz fight in Sunspire, you want to assign one healer to be the tomb healer whose purpose is to heal players entering the frozen tombs mechanic to prevent group wipes while the other healer heals the group and looks after the tank(s). The tomb healer needs to pump out strong healing, and it'd be waste for all the healers heading to sunspire to spec to be a tomb healer, but if no one specs for it the tombs have a high chance of failing and thus a high chance of wiping the group over and over.

I just do not see how a group finder for trials would not end up in a disaster. Taking organisation away from the content requiring organisation does not sound a recipe for success, and thus I'm not rooting for it.

A trial finder/raid finder works just fine in every other mmo that has one. Don’t see why it would be any different for ESO.

Same sentiment, though when I read what you said my brain flashed a bunch of images of fake tanks and I kinda went *sucks air in through teeth* Don't really experience 'role selection problems' this game has in its group finder on other mmo's lol.

I can't really realistically see there being a reason why a group finder for those who just want to experience it would be a bad idea, people who don't like it don't have to use it.. like we already do for vet dungeons as it is. I see absolutely no difference between groups that form from random zone chats, and a person who clicks on a trial finder menu, they're still pugs.

Drammanoth

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

Yes.

The group's leader, or a person knowledgeable in the mechanics can tell people what's what. Should someone not be smart enough to heed the advice, they can be removed.

Agenericname

Drammanoth wrote: »

Yes.

The group's leader, or a person knowledgeable in the mechanics can tell people what's what. Should someone not be smart enough to heed the advice, they can be removed.

How would they be removed? In the dungeon finder it takes 3 votes, which is a super majority, at least by US standards. I would guess that if they transposed that to trials it would be either 66% or 75% meaning either 8 or 9 votes were required to kick someone.

12 people being on the same page for the same strat without comms could easily be an exercise in herding cats, on vet anyway.

radiostar

Yes - for both vet/normal trials

Accessibility for those who want to use it