LazerusKI wrote: »

Actually...No.
NB CANT deal more singletarget dps than any other class.
Because NB hast just 3!!! attacks.

Its all about combining skills and not about a single skill!
You should know if you VR 10 and should have figured this out long before ...

I said it in another post, i measured the dps of a full-class ability spam NB with nearly unlimited mana because of the siphoning strikes.
And know what? Shieldbash spam is nearly twice as strong.

Funny testing conditions. Don't get the sense behind it.

Of course shield bash is stronger and btw. its NOT a class skill ...
In other words all are able to use it!

And to be honest, if you are one of those siphoning spammers you are losing a lot of overall damage peaks. It makes no sense using siphoning as anytimer!

What the heck was the purpose of your test or weird measuring?

I have a NB at v10, and i had to get help from a friend a lot of times...

I bet you do.

Bromburak wrote: »

LazerusKI wrote: »

Actually...No.
NB CANT deal more singletarget dps than any other class.
Because NB hast just 3!!! attacks.

Its all about combining skills and not about a single skill!
You should know if you VR 10 and should have figured this out long before ...

I said it in another post, i measured the dps of a full-class ability spam NB with nearly unlimited mana because of the siphoning strikes.
And know what? Shieldbash spam is nearly twice as strong.

Funny testing conditions. Don't get the sense behind it.

Of course shield bash is stronger and btw. its NOT a class skill ...
In other words all are able to use it!

And to be honest, if you are one of those siphoning spammers you are losing a lot of overall damage peaks. It makes no sense using siphoning as anytimer!

What the heck was the purpose of your test or weird measuring?

I have a NB at v10, and i had to get help from a friend a lot of times...

I bet you do.

You said it yourself, Shield bash is NOT a class specific ability, everyone can use it.
So, NB as a class cant deal more damage with it than any other class.
So, the statement that NB deals the highest singletarget damage was wrong.
Also to the part that i highlighted: Of course? seriously? do you really think that this is intended? To deal more damage with a spammable hit that was meant to interrupt a target than with anything else?

NB skills loose a lot of damage against targets that are immune to stuns.

Even with Siphoning Strikes the NB can deal enough damage to "normal" targets to nuke them, but everyone else can do that too.
Let it be shieldbash, flamewhip, or the templer-stuff, there is no real difference.
Siphoning strikes just lets you use abilities longer than them, because you will never run out of mana.
look at the v10 public-dungeon for example. boss was not stun-immune.
80k HP? pff, laughable. Siphoning Strikes and stunlock, finished that guy without taking damage - solo.
So, against stunnable targets the NB is a beast.

The main problem is...NB is bugged as hell.
For example Reapers mark. 75% Armor ignore. sounds nice huh?
too bad that it doesnt work. let it be a bug with the effect or let it be the possibility that PVE enemies have no armor (im dealing the same damage against them all, in any zone)
Same goes for Surprise Attack.
What about our "special stat", Critical?
Too bad that all the passives and mundus stones connected to it are bugged too.
Thief Stone doesnt change the number, Shadow REDUCES Critical damage instead if INCREASING it.
Dual-wield dagger bonus? doesnt show up either, Pressure points? bugged.
Master Assassin? too bad that Assassins Blade wont stun and that its only usefull under certain conditions, where you spam it instead of cloak and hit with it.
also Veiled Strike is the better choice compared to teleport strike (cheaper and stronger)
what about our ultis?
Death Stroke? laughable, cheap but not really stronger than Veiled Strike.
Consuming Darkness? Interrupts our Cloak...very usefull indeed.
Soul Shred? never tried it.

do i need to go on with the bugs and problems we have?

Also to your last question:
It was not actually a test like i did with the mundus stones or pve-enemie armor, FTC had an update and implemented a dps-meter where i noticed the damage-difference between my v10 nightblade where i use cloak+veiled strike+heavy attacks against normal targets and a v7 DK who uses shieldbash.
Against bosses? yeah...what can i use there...stun doesnt work, bleed doesnt work...all i can do is spam veiled strike and regular attacks, because i have no other way to deal more damage. Dualwield-Melee attacks are not that good at all, long cast time for laughable damage OR status damage attacks that do not work...i take Siphoning + Veiled...faster, cheaper, more damage, better status-effects, and beyond 25% health of my target i can finally deal real damage with Killers Blade.
Too bad that a shieldbasher can do that all the time, with no need to worry about his stamina, with permanent interruption of the target, with more dps than most spells, and all while the basher himself is protected through his shield. jup, thats balanced and fair *sarcasm off*

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

Suck it up wow kiddies.

Ehehehe, there are 4 classes in this game. If 80% of the NB population quits due to such an issue you have you lose 20% overall population. Wonder how they will manage with content then. Not including those who simply quit due to other bugs.

But hey, you will surely enjoy your ESO f2p adventure when you have to pay for inventory space, bank space, crafting materials and other stuff such as game content.

Keep it up, you're doing great I for one already canceled due to several issues, this one included. Will see how the game turns out to be in 6 months. That's at least the amount of time to fix the major bugs.

So if the problem is nightblades suck they should nerf content? get a grip.

This just shows how soft the mmo crowd has become, this game is no where near hardcore (even for you poor nightblades) yet people are screaming for nerfs.

And yes I play a dk and can someone explain to me why its op? someone earlier mentioned the dk aoe cc, lol why would anyone need to even use that in veteran solo content? I know I don't. (Tip) If youre charging into a pack of three vet mobs without a shield youre probably going to die no matter what class you are.

You play a DK, so shut up. Play a NB. Not to just 50 but into vet content, at least vet3 areas. then we will talk again. Oh and please try to keep your DK playstyle by so that you can compare.

jup, DK with all his WORKING shields, all his WORKING attacks, all his WORKING buffs and debuffs...
What was the difference to NB again...OH NB is mostly NOT working, i almost forgot about that. Most passives are bugged, most attacks are bugged, msot things after death are bugged...yeah...hard to remember all the things that are bugged.

I play a NB and I'm a pretty crappy player... and I'm not having an issue with VR content. I've never even respecced. I DW daggers, almost never switch to my second weapon load out (bow). Here's what's on my bar and what I use 95% of the time:

Whirling blades for AoE
Rapid strikes for straight DPS
Flying blade for ranged
Ambush (I usually open with this from sneak... which can one-shots casters)
Invigorating drain for health and stamina regen
Devouring swarm... everyone's favorite ultimate (I don't PVP, don't hate me)

Sneak a lot. Assess each encounter. Sneak attack from the rear. Take out casters first. Use a healing ability when running low on health (I realize you may not be a vampire, but there are other abilities). Block.

If I can manage VR content, it doesn't need to be nerfed. I really am not that great of a player.

LazerusKI wrote: »

You said it yourself, Shield bash is NOT a class specific ability, everyone can use it.
So, NB as a class cant deal more damage with it than any other class.
So, the statement that NB deals the highest singletarget damage was wrong.

This is getting silly now!

Because in your sample you were spamming siphoning and compared this to bash. No wonder that you are losing damage peaks because spamming siphoning makes no sense. You are responsible for timing your skills otherwise you are losing a lot of damage and will never reach your peaks.

You have actually proven in your postings that your rota and play style is responsible for the weak damage performance. As well you have ignored
the single target strength of NBs and obviously you have no clue how to play crit stacking builds and stealth synergies.

If you don't know its no problem, thats why we all L2P!
But you guys think you dont have to, well good luck with this attitude.

This is what I use when things get rough. >Link<

For two people I Prolonged Suffering the first guy, then I cast it on the second. I'll use Crippling Grasp on the first that is now free and Funnel Health. I then use charge attacks or spam light attacks if I need magicka for whatever reason since Siphoning Attacks will return magicka. I can usually kite the first one down with dodges and the slow from Crippling Grasp. Funnel, Ward, and Channel attack give me plenty of health back if they are ranged.

If it is three people I do the same thing while also kiting the third, once the first goes down I Prolong the third and kill the 2nd, after that it is all about cleaning up the last one. CC is your best friend and if you are using all magicka skills that leaves plenty of stamina to dodge.

danteafk wrote: »

As a VR10 NB in epic/leg gear I have to agree with the OP. In direct comparison to a DK and Sorc, the NB is just weak. If you had the choice, you would always take the DK/Sorc rather a NB. The class specific skills are just nonsense and need rework.

As someone already said, you can get along as NB just fine, but not that easy as other classes. For example, attacking a mob group of 3 VR10 you got to attack them out from stealth to have the big crit with ambush or suprise attack. Otherwise you will not win and can't sustain.

I just wanna know how all of this translates into needing to nerf sorc/DK?

Just fix the damned NB. Why is it when someone can't play their class (the way it was intended...either due to inability by bugs, etc...) that they immediately call for nerfs of all other classes.

BOO HOO BOO HOO. It get's old watching this dynamic.

vandefanel wrote: »

I cleared to v10 solo with the following NB bar: Draining Shot, Poison Injection, Silver Leash, Shadowy Disguise, Snipe/Siphoning Strikes. Although I do attribute alot of my success through veteran by a severe amount of kiting, with some of the boss quests taking up to 10 minutes of abusing LoS and staircases and other fun things.

So what you are saying is you were confined to a certain build in order to make it that far or that is something you wanted to play anyway....?

VR4 NB here,

Mobs are kinda iffy, it depends if there's a caster or healer in groups of 3+
If there is, it's pretty much game over unless I get really lucky. Not to mention I constantly have to switch between my DW and Bow in the fight and sometimes I can't change it fast enough cause it bugs out.

Mainly for mobs I just mark target, dark cloak, stun and then rapid strikes and see if the target's low enough for the impale. I always start of by marking the target and MOST of the time it won't even work. And just does the normal stealth + surprise attack damage and that's if surprise attack doesn't bug out either. Since most of the time I use dark cloak and my surpise attack which is 'instant' doesn't seem to be so instant.. and then it doesn't work until my invisibility is over giving me no extra damage..

Anyways if I fail to take out the first target with that combo, then I just switch to my bow, pray it actually switches and doesn't mess up and then proceed to use knockback and then siphon if I've taken any damage. Besides that it's just full charged bow shots and magnum + siphon with the ocassional posion arrow or scorched earth since I have to decide which one I want, as I always keep impale on my bar.

For bosses, I CAN'T stun, I CAN'T Knockback, bleeding effect's WON'T WORK, so my combos are near useless, I constantly use dark cloak for the defense it gives and for the normal criticals, After that I just alter my combos depending on the situation and the amount of damage the bosses are dealing. So I can use rapid strikes and then go invisible and surprise attack, then use rapid strikes again and move out unless I'm getting healed in a group dungeon. But the bosses, I'm forced to solo in quests that have massive health 15K+ and that I can't stun, bleed or knockback it's just a siphoning struggle with bow and praying they use AOE with the circle so I can jump out the way and siphon some more. Yeah I can use rapid strikes plus the normal combos aside from the stun, but if I get real close they'll deal massive damage and I'll die quickly. I mean 2-3 hits and I'm on the brink of death and with brand new armor too. Not only that but the decay thing is so broken after a few tries my armor is completely broken.

I definitely agree that there has to be some balancing introduced for nightblades. Our AoE is near useless, we're forced to single target dps, which isn't enough fast enough to kill one target before another charges and knocks you on the ground. After that you're pretty much done for because another one is coming right as you get up or the mages are spamming while your on the ground. Meanwhile we have DKs it's somewhat understandable as most are tanks designed for mobs, but mainly sorcs just running through these mobs like they have 100 health or something. Constantly spamming Crystal shards.. and if they die no problem as some run naked and use that daedric thing that gives them massive defense.. so no worrying about repair costs..

Although I'm highly addicted, sometimes I just don't have the motivation to play because of these things and constantly question while I'll continue my sub or not. Like I said sometimes the mobs are doable, depending on whether there is a healer or sorcs, if it's all melee it's fine. The bosses are what constantly makes me frustrated because some I'm forced to solo and go through tons of repairs before I finally get lucky enough to beat them. This isn't always the case but it happens a lot. The quest bosses that are open for multiple people = me just waiting for others to pass by so I don't just waste my money on ridiculous repairs again.

This is basically how my experience has been in veteran. I really wish they do something about this or most of the NBs who don't resort to Shield + one hand or gonna end up leaving. I really don't want to be forced to have a certain playing style..

Vet 8 NB, almost Vet 9.

Soloed the whole game so far - never had a single issue. Could probably count on 1 hand the number of deaths Ive had. Have also cleared the Vet 5 dungeons in groups.

NB can solo most world bosses (Note: not ALL)

NB can so dungeons and Public Dungeons in minutes.

NB destroys herp-derps people in PvP.

NB is fine.


Oh, and I have never used Shield. Used Bow only (and NB skill lines)

Chirru wrote: »

Yes...to me NB is the most fun class to play despite its brokenness.
people are looking at the NB one shooting a single target and say Wow.
well, two targets are okay because we can cc one.
Three targets and the chance of winning is 50/50

In a dungeon the Solo-NB definitely is the weakest class unless one sneaks by anything more than two. Bosses...well.... hope you have plenty of gold to fix armor.

Last one, i promise (mostly because there seems to be 5 pages of bad players complaining about NBs).

This is so untrue its laughable.

If you cant take down 3 mobs as a NB, you're doing it wrong. Its not 50/50 unless you blindfold yourself first.

In dungeons, you can skip ALL the mobs and just grab the Skyshard + Kill the end-boss solo in about 1 minute (unless youre desperate to kill trash, which is easy).

NB with a Bow can solo most world bosses, as mentioned above.

Happy to demonstrate in-game if you want. I'll even do it with no armor on so people dont complain about the trivial repair costs.

I'd be interested to know what skills you guys have on your bars, and which morphs you chose.

Zaxq wrote: »

Chirru wrote: »

Yes...to me NB is the most fun class to play despite its brokenness.
people are looking at the NB one shooting a single target and say Wow.
well, two targets are okay because we can cc one.
Three targets and the chance of winning is 50/50

In a dungeon the Solo-NB definitely is the weakest class unless one sneaks by anything more than two. Bosses...well.... hope you have plenty of gold to fix armor.

NB with a Bow can solo most world bosses, as mentioned above.

It is not the class but the weapon ability that allows you to solo world bosses. Every class with proper bow skills can do it.

VR10 Nightblade here.

Honestly don't know how anyone can be struggling to get to VR10.
Here's my loadout:

1 - Surprise Attack (make sure you stealth behind for your opener, use Dark Cloak as well if you think you might get spotted)
2 - Swallow Soul (you can switch this out for another ability of your choice, but i like this for the heal)
3 - Killer's Blade (as soon as the enemy hits 24% health this is usually an insta-kill and also gives a nice heal as well)
4 - Leeching Strikes (health/mana/stam on every hit plus a chance of extra mana/stam to proc, this is a no-brainer for PvE and basically gives you an endless mana/stam pool)
5 - Dark Cloak (use this as often as you need to. mobs won't attack you while invisible and it also breaks their heavy attacks/casts)

Open with Surprise Attack from stealth, follow with heavy attack and 1st mob should be dead. Pop Dark Cloak and then Surprise Attack the next mob, followed by heavy attack to knock it down. Spam light attacks (to regen and get Leeching Strikes procs) until it gets back up and if it's not nearly dead just rinse and repeat. Same for the 3rd mob.
Any boss or world boss that can be stunned is an easy kill as you can keep it stun-locked.

The only tough fights are mobs that can't be stunned. On the up side, if they're melee mobs then you can keep them missing every attack with Heated Blades from the dual wield skill line (since you have an endless stam pool from Leeching Strikes)

Caster mobs like Harvesters are tough, but i find using line of sight and ranged abilities on them while they're casting is the best way to take them down.

If you're still struggling and dying too much, maybe you should just re-roll.

Bromburak wrote: »

LazerusKI wrote: »

You said it yourself, Shield bash is NOT a class specific ability, everyone can use it.
So, NB as a class cant deal more damage with it than any other class.
So, the statement that NB deals the highest singletarget damage was wrong.

This is getting silly now!

Because in your sample you were spamming siphoning and compared this to bash. No wonder that you are losing damage peaks because spamming siphoning makes no sense. You are responsible for timing your skills otherwise you are losing a lot of damage and will never reach your peaks.

You have actually proven in your postings that your rota and play style is responsible for the weak damage performance. As well you have ignored
the single target strength of NBs and obviously you have no clue how to play crit stacking builds and stealth synergies.

If you don't know its no problem, thats why we all L2P!
But you guys think you dont have to, well good luck with this attitude.

so...you have never played NB. do you?
Siphoning Strikes: Reduces Damage by 20%, each hit restores 4% Stam/Mag, 10% to restore 15% Stam/Mag.
Its nothing that you can spam, its an ability that is always active.
Sure, you deal 20% less damage, BUT you have infinite Magica or Stamina, so no gaps in fight, you can use abilitys over and over again.

Crit Stacking? What Crit Stacking?
Most of the Crit-Things are BUGGED!!!
Thief Stone does nothing, Shadow Stone Reduces instead of Increases, Dualwield Daggers does nothing, Assassination Passives do not count correctly.
I heard that Assassins Blade cant even Crit, and i think Strife cant either.
So what are you talking about?!

Stealth Synergies:
Yeah, because it works against bosses? oh wait...it DOES NOT!
There is no Stealth-Attack bonus when you are allready infight. Veiled Strike CAN stun from stealth...but guess what...bosses are immune.
Assassins abilities deal more crit-damage from stealth...so...Assassins Blade and Teleport Strike? First is usefull in the late stages of a fight, and there you spam it isntead of cloak and crit. Teleport Strike? Waste of Magica and Time.

Another Point: Armor Reduction
Doesnt work in PVE (if it works at all). So the 40% From Veiled Strike and the 75% from Mark Target do NOTHING.

Weapon Abilities:
Let me tell you the damage numbers of these attacks.
Flurry: 75x5 + 189 = 564dmg over 1.3s
Same time i can use Veiled Strike two or three times, each hit deals 353dmg, so 706-1059 in the same time you cast ONE Flurry with 564 Damage.
Not to mention that Flurry can STILL break the animation, had it right now TWICE in one fight that my attacks were locked.
Twin Slashes: 84dmg with 355bleed over 9s. too bad that most bosses are immune to bleed, not to mention that it deals less damage in 9s than veiled strike in one hit.
Assassins Blade: 178dmg, +300% (so 712) against <25% health. yeah, only usefull in the late phase of a fight.
Teleport Strike: 283dmg - less damage than Veiled Strike, cant stun bosses either, costs more, takes longer to cast.
Strife: 306 dmg, health restore cant stack it seems.
you see? Veiled Strike > Rest

as a NB in a boss fight you DONT HAVE a real Rota.
You cant cloak, you cant stun, you cant apply bleed, you cant reduce armor. The best thing to do...tadaa...spam veiled strike, hit a few times with light attacks to restore magica - start again.
There are only a few class-ablities to use besides of Veiled Strike in a bossfight.
Maybe summon the shadows for some extra damage and damage reduction on boss (if that even works).
Or as @feniks31_ESO said: Cripple works against bosses. That was completely new to me, some more damage to deal.
But a Rota with Dualwield abilities? why? they cant deal damage compared to Veiled Strike, not at all. With Siphoning Strikes Combo you laugh about them.

Veiled Strike is our version of Flamewhip or the Lightspear.

As @gsmcgowanb14_ESO said: against common mobs...stun.
You can sneak up from behind and onehit nearly everything, sure, or you just can permastun them with veiled strike + cloak + siphoning strike (leeching strikes is bugged btw). But both wont work agaisnt bosses.

Bromburak wrote: »

And the biggest strength of a NB is single target dps in the fastest time of all classes.

wat?
even templar can reach same dps as nb to solo target if no sneak attack follow first.
and I am pretty sure DK or Sorc can reach even more since they both have easy active spells which hardly increase their damage like surge and molten weapons.

as example - 40-50% crit chance melee/archery sorc can pretty tank packs coz crits for 200-400 will give very good HP sustain