Really need to fix NB or tone down some of the Vet Content

astroff999_ESO · May 2014

Gelston wrote: »

Many didn't solo it huh? I guess I am on of the few 10s that did.

Me too and I am a vr 10 nb. However, if I read this forum that should not have happened.

Yes, there are bugs and skills are not as optimal as I would like. For example, sneak with concealed blades does 1600+ average for me. If I use shadow and concealed it does about 500. You still get the stun so it thinks you are stealthed it should still have a chance for that big hit, you are invis after all.

I solo lion's den, vr10 group public dungeon for me since I went DC to start. It takes a while to take down a 5 pack but I can do it, 1 to 1 1/2 minutes. I use my dark shades, you get two shades with that morph, to get agro at first. The mobs go after them not you, but you have to wait a two count or so to make sure they have agro before you jump in. I use prolonged suffering on any mob that does leave the shades once I move in if more than two come at me. I can kill the mobs one at a time then and move on. I can solo the mini bosses in there. These are the only fights that take me 3-5 minutes. It goes magnum shot auto bow attack, until i am down to about 20% sta. Then I go to shadow conceal weapons stun combo vary some weapon attacks in use incapacitating strike usually after the first stun wears off to get the extra magic sta regen while I atk. I then go back to the shadow/concealed weapon combo for stuns. I will follow my shadow/concealed weapons/ incapacitating strike rotation until my mana is going low and my sta is back up. I then switch back to bow rinse repeat until mini boss is dead. If something goes wrong I always leave a little magic for a prolong suffering to stun the boss giving me 12 seconds to regen up some, pop a pot whatever the situation calls for. This cannot be used on every mob in the game but just one example how as a nb I can even solo group vr content.

Maotti · May 2014

I'm a Heavy Armor sorcerer and i also find the game to be quite difficult in veteran mode.

Bromburak · May 2014

Idrinkwhatibrew wrote: »

You say it is a "Play as you want" game. Well I'm sure there will be many people on here saying "learn to play your class", "learn to play". blah blah blah.

You might don't like it but learning how to deal with tough content and having challenges should be part of any game.

A fact, you have tried certain things with your class but you have not been succesful. Other players are successful during their trying out learning process in TESO so all i can see is that you call their way blah blah.

Well, good luck!

zeuseason · May 2014

I've parked my VR1 NB for a bit and have been working on alts. And you are right, unless you get the jump on a mob(s), you are pretty done for. I can't count how many times I've walked around a corner or tree to stumble upon a mob or two and get [snip].

Seras · May 2014

I'm only V2 but I'm already finding some of the mob packs obnoxious... especially the groups of three or more with healers. You knock the healer down only to have all it's buddies aoe you... dodge out of the way, fine, but the healer is already up spamming heals again... and they whittle you down to nothing. It might be my high latency messing with my responses, but it's pretty annoying.
I like challenge in a game and don't mind getting defeated, changing my strategy and going back again to take them down, but the huge repair bills and time sink kind of diminish that enjoyment, especially when there is so much content to wade through.

Bromburak · May 2014

Seras wrote: »

I like challenge in a game and don't mind getting defeated, changing my strategy and going back again to take them down, but the huge repair bills and time sink kind of diminish that enjoyment, especially when there is so much content to wade through.

At least you are talking about "changing my strategy". Many others dont!

Basically you are doing well with Vet content because you have been adjusting your game play to any kind of situation and actually learn every day to play your class succesfully. However you actually do something for getting better and figuring out weakness of enemy and your self, thats why you have no problem with the vet content. You just claim a better balancing for armor decay and thats a different story.

gunsofdeschain · May 2014

As a fellow NB who has spent over 70k in re-specs and still unable to get that successful PvE solo build, I feel your pain.

paradoxorganisationb16_ESO · May 2014

I know if anyone cared to follow listed that i haven't played a NB. But my GF plays one and i made spec for both her and a friend of mine that also plays NB and they have np with VR content.

For clarifycation my GF plays a healer/drain type on one bar with single target burst spec on the other. For my friend i gave him the same single target but a warlocky type with destro staff for aoe and he can easy solo and aoe down 4+ mobs as many of you listed as impossible. Basicly as many as aoe cap allows and come off full hp due to NB siphonings inherit healing/drain nature.

ZakyUchiha · May 2014

If you're a vamp, use the Midnight Drain as it heals you a lot. 2xx x 4 in daylight, double that at midnight.

As for NB, one of my friends are a NB and we quested VR5-VR10. And I was almost always behind, since NB can just pop invisible literally in front of a mob and just run to the end of the dungeons or past a lot of mobs to kill a certain one. He was a ranged NB and it seems it works pretty well. Of course he would kill the mobs with me though or wait.
For the other classes, you have to pretty much kill every single mob, that stands in your way and they do not give you a lot of VP.

Tavore1138 · May 2014

Gotta say at VR4 it's a real mix - as a NB I find half the time my abilities don't work at which point I am stranded and die fast against groups of 3 or more, that is a much reported (and much ignored by ZOS) bug issue that really needs to be fixed as if you can't rely on dealing fast heavy damage out of stealth the class becomes much less viable than the more tanky builds.

But when the abilities fire as expected they do work nicely.

Playing stealth seems harder than in my first area (DC), I am now in AD and there seems to be a lot less room to slip between mobs of things when you don't want to fight everything - I don't know if that is the area itself or something they have changed for VR mode but again, if you want to play stealth rather than tank through mob after mob it becomes a little soul destroying at times.

The other thing is that there have been one or two bosses that seem an order of magnitude harder than the already tough level of most VR bosses.

I guess it's a matter of taste, I like a challenge but equally it's a game so when it starts to give the same feeling of frustration as a bad day in a grim job... well...

So I'm in the middle here - I think most of it is fine, I think there are areas that need a little space opened up for the stealthers, possibly a slight reduction in mob size or strength/HP... but I also get that what I find tough some find impossible and others find easy.

If only there was a way we could all be satisfied

Jade1986 · May 2014

Juponen wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Then they need to buff the 2 handed line. 2 handed weapons should do double damage of 1 handed.

You should study why there historically were 2H weapons. It was not because they did 2*dmg which they did not.

You are really bringing history into this? This is a game, and balance is required. If my attacks take twice the time to attack, they need to be more powerful. Also, the force you can exert when swinging a weapon with two hands is in fact more than double than that of one hand.

HandofBane · May 2014

As a v3 nightblade, relying on a siphon/resto stick, with a dual wield siphon/assassination backup, I get my ass kicked regularly. Single mobs I can usually take without much problem (once I picked up teleport strike, life got much easier). Two mobs? I have the long stun with the stupidly long cast timer to help buy enough time to burn the first mob down. Three? If my ultimate (shadow morphed for damage) is not up, I can generally kiss my ass goodbye about 75% of the time. If any of those mobs is a healer, or 2h wielder, the odds increase for me waiting on the revive to kick in - throw both a healer and a 2her, or a pair of maul wielding NPCs, and I may as well give up and go elsewhere. My only AoE power comes from Refreshing Path, which doesn't work half the time because the ground isn't flat, and my ultimate. Technically you can count the 3-target Silver Bolts, but that is really limited in who it's useful against.

I don't mind a challenge, but when the solution is "carry around a completely different set of armor, and a sword/shield combo" - in other words play another class - something is inherently wrong with how things function. For the record, at v3, I am wearing a full v3 set of crafted leather (the 3piece increased healing set, and Death's Wind because my hp gets that low a LOT on those 3-mob fights). My weapons are also crafted, though the swords are slightly behind due to not being able to find an enchanter for properly upgraded ones. Every piece of gear is upgraded to blue tier, and all armor is enchanted with health so I don't drop as fast.

Something I think many people are leaving out/ignoring - the "tells" for many attacks are not that visible on low/medium settings, and with three mobs running in at once, forget keeping track of all of them at once to tell when they are stacking back-to-back Uppercuts (which, by the way, it's stupid as hell that moving far out of melee range when you DO see it coming still gets you hit, should one be out of stamina and unable to dodge/roll). If this content really is intended for groups, and not to be done solo, then there needs to be a very clear warning when Cadwell dumps it on you, and there sure as *** needs to be something else to do ingame for players stuck running solo or unable to PvP for whatever reason (my home campaign keeps flipping between AD and DC, as the vampire DK swarms dominate, most of my faction has given up even bothering anymore).

Ulvich · May 2014

I'm gonna have to agree with his thread. Some of the VR content is a bit much for doing solo. And having to respec or regear for every boss just isn't going to happen. I have my character tuned just as I want it right now, and I'm not about to spend another 15k to respec just to beat one or two bosses.

Osi · May 2014

People need to realize what this thread is about, It's not that VR content is too hard and should be decreased in difficulty. It is specifically about the serious discrepancy between a Nightblade doing VR content and every other class, primarily Sorcerer and Dragon Knight and less so Templar. And it shows that the first 5 people that respond with how they are having no trouble with VR talk about their Dragon Knight, typical trolls.

Nightblade doesn't have the AOE CC and generally the AOE that the other classes have. And the AOE it does have is weak and close range. Getting to Cold Harbour where you lose the overleveled benefit you had in every other zone, I am really feeling how squishy a Nightblade is. Either I have to kite with a bow or I better be a vampire and using the drain ability to manage groups. Havestors are nigh impossible to kill. I do intend to do VR content regardless of difficulty, but I really do not want to be forced to go to Destruction Staff and be another impulse spammer just to get by.

Idrinkwhatibrew · May 2014

Evergreen wrote: »

Idrinkwhatibrew wrote: »

Tell me how is a NB suppose to beat the VR content unless I got a buddy with me? Seriously.

A good start would be fixing our class skills. Right now we cannot even know the possibilities of our class with so many broken/bugged abilities.

Assassination:

Death Stroke <Incapacitating Strike> and <Soul Harvest> On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered.

Assassin’s Blade <Killer’s Blade> and <Impale> – On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered. These abilities are also bugged in that they cannot crit. This may be fixed in 1.1

Haste <Focused Attacks> and <Incapacitate> – The attack speed increase of 30% doesn’t affect bow weapons.

Mark Target <Reaper’s Mark> – The gain damage bonus effect does not appear to work.

Mark Target <Piercing Mark> – Allows you to see and attack targets who are sneaking however not targets that are invisible currently.

Teleport Strike <Ambush> – On occasion the animation will happen however the ability is not actually triggered.
Shadow:

Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> – Approximately 25% of the time this ability does not trigger any of its effects.

Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> and <Dark Cloak> – On occasion you wont visually be invisible but you are to the mobs.

Shadow Cloak <Shadowy Disguise> and <Dark Cloak> – Your character becomes invisible however enemy players can see particle effects and thus be able to locate your player.

Veiled Strike <Concealed Weapon> – The 22% movement speed in stealth while slotted effect appears to suffer the dreaded “Once you’ve died you need to re-log or zone to rectify the issue”. Workaround: If you re-log or change zones it will force the passive effect to work again.

Veiled Strike <Surprise Attack> and <Concealed Weapon> – Often the animation and stun effect will occur but no damage is done to the enemy.

Path of Darkness <Twisting Path> and <Refreshing Path> – This ability appears to be affected by terrain, the magicka cost is spent however the ability does not trigger.

Aspect of Terror <Mass Hysteria> and <Manifestation of Terror> – The base fear effect of 2 nearby enemies doesn’t appear to last the suggested 4 seconds all the time. It is often between 1.5 – 4 seconds.

Siphoning:

Strife <Funnel Health> – On occasion it doesn’t apply to anyone.

Strife <Funnel Health> – Doesn’t appear to be healing allies for the actual amount it should be, inconsistent heal effects.

Cripple <Debilitate> and <Crippling Grasp> – The dot effect of this ability does not work on mobs that are immune to snare effects.

Siphoning Strikes <Leeching Strike> – Only gives an extra 2.4% health instead of the expected 4%. This I've confirmed myself.

Drain Power <Sap Essence> – Is unable to perform a critical strike for both the damage and healing component of this ability.

Drain Power <Sap Essence> – Will not cast the heal effect unless the enemy is being damaged.

Drain Power <Sap Essence> – Heals only for the base amount, and the +20% heal per target hit is never applied.

Yes, I know how broke the class is, I haven't gone out of my way to make a list like this but I can confirm at least 3/4 of what you are saying. I was holding out hoping they would fix some of these issues. I guess we'll see. I'm glad I'm not the only one that is noticing these. One I didn't see on your list is the duel wield passive Twin Blade and Blunt. I equip daggers, and guess what, doesn't do anything to my weapon crit. Maybe it does but it doesn't update on my character sheet. This list is pretty well put together.

Squishy · May 2014

Well, I rolled a new toon. VR is too damn hard. Being 2 or 3 shotted by standard mobs is just not challenging, but plain annoying.

If I want to be killed all the time, and spend a lot of money on repairs, I'll just head back to eve online

.

Right now, I'm playing a DK 1H/shield, and I sure am having a lot more fun not dying every 3 minutes. A challenge is fine, constant slaughter is not fun. AT VR7, nearly 8, soloed most of it, somehow, It just ends up being stressful and boring to have to retry the same thing over and over again, until you somehow manages it, or simply stock on shards, and rez/move forward...

I noticed as each VR zone gets higher, less and less people are around, to the point where meeting another player is nearly a miracle... The dungeons are virtually empty all the time, zone chat is virtually dead... it's been a month, more people should be in those zones, but I'm guessing a lot simply rolled an alt, as you actually have a character progression, and people are around if things get a little tough...

Last time I tried a world boss in a RK8 zone, it took over 20 minutes for 4 people to show up, and we got completly slaughtered... how is that fun?

The idea of one toon for all the story is fine, and well done storywise, but it serves absolutely no purpose on character progression, and with such a massive difficulty raise, will only catter for the elite hardcore players, but the vast majority I reckon, will simply cancel the sub, or roll an alt... just my opinion on the matter of course

Idrinkwhatibrew · May 2014

Osi wrote: »

People need to realize what this thread is about, It's not that VR content is too hard and should be decreased in difficulty. It is specifically about the serious discrepancy between a Nightblade doing VR content and every other class, primarily Sorcerer and Dragon Knight and less so Templar. And it shows that the first 5 people that respond with how they are having no trouble with VR talk about their Dragon Knight, typical trolls.

Nightblade doesn't have the AOE CC and generally the AOE that the other classes have. And the AOE it does have is weak and close range. Getting to Cold Harbour where you lose the overleveled benefit you had in every other zone, I am really feeling how squishy a Nightblade is. Either I have to kite with a bow or I better be a vampire and using the drain ability to manage groups. Havestors are nigh impossible to kill. I do intend to do VR content regardless of difficulty, but I really do not want to be forced to go to Destruction Staff and be another impulse spammer just to get by.

Thanks Osi, I thought I made it clear what I was talking about, even said it upfront. Whatever, some folks just can't read I guess. Thanks for the comments just the same. And yes you are absolutely right in what you say. I even tried Destro staff at one point, the "BloodMage" BS build or whatever they are calling it.

neocomab16_ESO · May 2014

The problem with Vet content is not its difficulty per se. It's more a class problem.
Let me give you some examples. Sorcs have heavy hitting magicka abilities, so do DK and Templars have. NBs however have almost none if it.
We have assassins blade ...which doesnt deal any significant dmg unless the target is in execute range. We have surprise attacks which is really good if you sneak upon your target. It hits like a truck. It is great. In combat though it sucks. Does nothing. Rest of our abilities, magicka based, is utility stuff. Drain health, deal little dmg. Deal dmg and dot, increase weapon dmg. Slow target, deal *** poor dot dmg. Basically we have strong openers and finishers. There is however nothing in between. Plus a lot of our passives dont work. Theres one assassination passve that should increase crit chance depending on the number of assassination skills slotted. It does nothing though. And I believe this is simply a wording problem in the code as it clearly states crit chance but crit in this game is divided in weapon and spell crit. So how could you increase a stat that is not in the game? You cant. Same goes for the dual wield dagger passive. Same wording, no effect.

So how do I play as a simple rogue NB with bow on his second bar and being a Vamp? I skip packs completely. I'm in riverspire or whatever it is called and when I faced 12k hp gargoyles I sneaked around them. I skip packs of 3 enemies completely unless I have to fight them. IF I have to I hope for my batswarm ult to be up and flurry them down single target bursty. Other than that there is nothing I can really do.

It is a class problem and although we have nice burst options, we are pretty limited. Because compared to other classes we cannot sustain dmg. We either burst or utilize. DKs spam burning ember and do fine. Templars spam spears or other stuff and do fine. Mages spam magy stuff. We do one opener, burn our magicka on utility stuff instead of dmg and burn our stamina on weapon stuff although it is already known that magicka abilities in general outperform stamina based stuff all the time.

Other classes can empty both bars and deal great dmg. We empty both bars for utility and dmg.

There is a big misconception problem with the NB class plus a lot of bugs.

Marked for death should decrease both, the target's and my resistances and armor. Yet when I cast it and check on my charsheet nothing happens. Thus I refuse to believe this ability works because right now I simply depend on charsheet feedback. If it is not there, stuff wont work. Simple. because I dont see differences. This is probably why when I switch to bow, my crit increases by 10 % while my actual bursty dmg bar, that is assa/shadow/dual wield, shows only 21% crit.

It is a sad state for NBs compared to other classes no matter if some of you managed to reach v10. You have to admit, compared to others we simpl have it harder and that is kind of a big deal to me at least.

Idrinkwhatibrew · May 2014

Just want to thank all the NBs out there chiming in. I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing these issues. It just seems that everyday I log in I'm trying a different build, or different armor, or different skills and trying to make it work, without doing any of the cookie cutter BS. As for the comments on L2P, whatever, I've been playing MMOs since EQ, I'm not going to list everything I've done because really I don't feel like wasting my time. Bottom line, NB needs some love.

LonePirate · May 2014

The amount of elitism in this thread is depressing. The optional content that is designed specifically for groups - the dolmens, the skull bosses and the group dungeons - should remain that way. The rest of the content, especially the required quests for Cadwell's Almanac, should not be group-oriented and a player should not be required to be within a group in order to complete it. This content can be challenging; but when it turns out to be a wall which numerous players cannot surmount, then the problem is with the content, not with the players. This is not a L2P situation. It's a problematic game design situation.

Congrats to those of you who claim to be sleepwalking through the Veteran content. There apppears to be far more people having trouble with it, though, and the game should not frustrate those people to the point that they quit. Content that is too difficult for the average player merely drives them away. Content that is slightly challenging without being impossible for all but a few is what keeps people playing this game. Right now, the VR quests and mobs need to be nerfed. The VR group bosses, dolmens and four-player group dungeons should have their difficulty increased to compensate. Everybody wins if those things happen.

Xexpo · May 2014

I love how all these DK's are just saying L2p... life is easy when you have aoe cc.

I think the bump in difficulty for VR zones is needlessly high. Why should a group of four trash mobs invoke the fear of god in you, if you are solo? They are trash mobs... trash... not mini bosses.
It all leads to relying heavily on your classes "best" skills; no experimenting or leveling up those other skills.
It is tedious, boring as hell, and highly unrewarding. (6gp thx!)
I am always looking for ways to skip fights, when I used to want to engage everything.

Getorix · May 2014

Suck it up wow kiddies.

pmn100b16_ESO · May 2014

Its only DKs and Sorcs saying there isn't a problem. The biggest problem for NBs is lack of AoE damage. We have to take targets down one by one, and it takes a lot of figuring out. Its frustrating when you stand looking at a group of 3/4 mobs figuring out what skill combo to use in what order, then a sorc comes along and runs into the middle of em and spams impulse. So if you're a sorc or DK, no you're not going to have a problem with vet content (or you really shouldn't anyway), cause tbh, there's no skill needed with the class when you can kill 4/5+ mobs by pressing 1 button over and over.

So yeah the title of this thread is wrong, this is a NB issue, not a Vet content issue.

Tavore1138 · May 2014

Getorix wrote: »

Suck it up wow kiddies.

Forest or frost troll?

neocomab16_ESO · May 2014

Getorix wrote: »

Suck it up wow kiddies.

Ehehehe, there are 4 classes in this game. If 80% of the NB population quits due to such an issue you have you lose 20% overall population. Wonder how they will manage with content then. Not including those who simply quit due to other bugs.

But hey, you will surely enjoy your ESO f2p adventure when you have to pay for inventory space, bank space, crafting materials and other stuff such as game content.

Keep it up, you're doing great

I for one already canceled due to several issues, this one included. Will see how the game turns out to be in 6 months. That's at least the amount of time to fix the major bugs.

PharmaChief · May 2014

I have yet to reach veteran content but i do hope it is far harder to solo play than 1-50 content. Until now the game is just too easy and i look forward for the extra challenge... For me challenging gameplay is far more worthy than fast leveling progress. So no, i hope they do not tone down veteran content...

Xexpo · May 2014

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

Suck it up wow kiddies.

Forest or frost troll?

SweeTroll?

Tavore1138 · May 2014

Of course as my (sorcerer) wife just pointed out - when they do fix the NB abilities we'll all have become used to having to play better to succeed than the 'easier' classes to manage without them and we're going to be having a sweet time of it

Getorix · May 2014

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

Suck it up wow kiddies.

Ehehehe, there are 4 classes in this game. If 80% of the NB population quits due to such an issue you have you lose 20% overall population. Wonder how they will manage with content then. Not including those who simply quit due to other bugs.

But hey, you will surely enjoy your ESO f2p adventure when you have to pay for inventory space, bank space, crafting materials and other stuff such as game content.

Keep it up, you're doing great I for one already canceled due to several issues, this one included. Will see how the game turns out to be in 6 months. That's at least the amount of time to fix the major bugs.

So if the problem is nightblades suck they should nerf content? get a grip.

This just shows how soft the mmo crowd has become, this game is no where near hardcore (even for you poor nightblades) yet people are screaming for nerfs.

And yes I play a dk and can someone explain to me why its op? someone earlier mentioned the dk aoe cc, lol why would anyone need to even use that in veteran solo content? I know I don't. (Tip) If youre charging into a pack of three vet mobs without a shield youre probably going to die no matter what class you are.

Getorix · May 2014

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

Suck it up wow kiddies.

Forest or frost troll?

Do you even know what a troll is?

We finally have an mmo that has a small degree of difficulty outside of raiding and the wow kiddies are already screaming nerfs, and its only going to get worse as more and more of them enter the horrible NIGHTMARE! that is vet levels.