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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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.Vorpedagel wrote: »Can I add a no vote to the auction house poll? Game doesn't need it and if you think it does, then you are bad. Simple. Just get good.
It's not a question of being bad and needing to get good. It's just certain play styles rely more heavily on player-generated economies than others.
Scavengers for example: who don't take their crafts too serious while leveling to 50 and rely more on looted gear probably won't miss an auction house. But serious crafters who like to keep their gear upgraded and optimized while leveling are going to be wishing for a healthy economy to help them out.Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 2:46AM3 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »Do people really want to compete with 250,000+ other players trying to sell the exact same item?
I sure do. Because that's 250,000+ more potential buyers.
As a quick example: you make more money selling something for 5 gold to 100 people than you do selling something for 100 gold to one person.
Cept that you need 100 of that 1 item to sell to 100 people versus just 1 for latter example. Supply.
Nice try though.
Everyone is clearing dungeons and getting the BOA loots. As more people go through them, more will be come available. I can sell my BOAs for 1k on the guild store but a public AH means 100 will be listed and everyone is undercutting them. Stop being a cheapskate
Edited by Makkir on May 2, 2014 2:55AM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Except the market is not competitive. Is this really so hard to grasp? Did you really read my entire post there? Did you actually go out and check pricing elsewhere in AH's? Because I did, and what I've stated earlier is all based on actual practice. But to each his own, right.
Free markets only work well when supply and demand are balanced, and in MMO's they are NEVER balanced by the very nature of an MMO's loot tables. Everyone wants to have the rare stuff, and only few people find it. You tell me by what logic this principle would ever cause prices to decrease.
@Sandhya just give up on Jeremy. I have played the WoW AH for years. I have banked well over 1 mill gold. I know EXACTLY what AH's do to a game. He is just lazy and doesn't want to work for a buck. He probably shops grocery stores at 2am looking for expired meats for the 3.00 discount as well.
We have opportunity to get more buck for our items without an AH, I dont care if his view point is that we're "ripping" people off. If someone is willing to pay 3k for an item I have, then it's worth 3k to that person. All the AH does is promote undercutting.
So let me get this straight - because I want to see an auction house I am lazy and shop at grocery stores at 2am?
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭You'd probably be in favor of a mobile app to like WoW where you can list auctions and browse....
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭MMO's are supposed to take time and progress, you shouldn't able to reach end game in the first week. Things shouldn't be convenient or easy, but rewarding.Edited by Makkir on May 2, 2014 3:50AM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You'd probably be in favor of a mobile app to like WoW where you can list auctions and browse....MMO's are supposed to take time and progress, you shouldn't able to reach end game in the first week. Things should be convenient or easy, but rewarding.
Makkir, you are talking to a guy who takes the time to gather enough materials to craft a full set of green/blue gear every 2 levels. I'm only level 20 - and the last thing I am doing is rushing to end game in the first week. I did every quest but 1 in Stonefalls. Found every Skyshard. Did every dungeon and world boss (cept matron's because the damn thing would not spawn). I did the same in Bleakrock and Bal Foyen. I plan to do the same in Deshaan.
So please stop generalizing me as someone who wants things easy to rush to the end just because I would like to seen an auction house.Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 3:46AM3 -
methjester✭✭✭MMO's are supposed to take time and progress, you shouldn't able to reach end game in the first week. Things shouldn't be convenient or easy, but rewarding.
I'm glad you think this way... the time thing. When you start hitting vet ranks finding ANY gear or mats of value becomes hellish at best. You'll probably spend more time /zone shouting looking for something than you do out in the world. There is no economy in this game right now. The future economy is only going to be for the richest guilds who can buy kiosks.
I've maxxed 2 professions, and I have nowhere to sell except to pick a random zone and hope someone bites, then take my chance on COD. I'm still looking for these mythic all inclusive guild stores. fun fun fun.
I don't know what game you played to make you think a global/faction auction destroys a market, but I feel sorry for that game. It must be bad.
I'd rather take my chance posting an auction than spend hours on end shouting that I want to buy or sell something. I paid my dues in the East Commons tunnels back in Everquest and I do not wish to ever revisit that nightmare.
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know if the duped gold was removed from the economy, and if it was probably not all of it. That's a huge problem but putting that aside...the 'value' of your gold is going to decrease as more and more gold is brought in to the game. Not making the items easily accessible to players by means of a global/faction AH is going to keep the prices, in the meantime, in the range of a "sellers market." As soon as these separate guild stores become one global faction AH, all those items will be sorted in one giant price list. People generally want a "fast buy" so they list their item just 1 coin cheaper than the next guy so it's the first item seen in a search result and obviously the cheaper item is purchased first. This is EXACTLY how the WoW Auction House is.
The money sinks are great because it keeps a good chunk of the coins OUT of the game.
If your argument has to do with the ease of selling and obtaining items, well then maybe there is a different approach than a global Auction House. Maybe an easier way to access your bank/guild store is better. Or, as already been suggested, a trade district/zone that is engaging, fun, hang out place, and gives the opportunity to trade with each other (maybe even cross faction) with even possibly lower fees or something.
It also sounds like, from your post, that in the VR ranks you don't exactly have a city "hub" to hang around. I guess in comparison I mean you don't have a Stormwind or Orgimaar? I haven't gotten near that point in the game yet.
Again, I think it'd be cool to have a trade zone (Quests, hang out Hub for players to chat, find groups, and trade. Maybe offer Kiosks with lower fees)
Edited by Makkir on May 2, 2014 5:33AM2 -
Krayor✭✭✭MMO's are supposed to take time and progress, you shouldn't able to reach end game in the first week. Things shouldn't be convenient or easy, but rewarding.
Nice strawman, dude. Totally invalid. If you can't argue about the topic, you should just leave it.Edited by Krayor on May 2, 2014 8:09PMThe ESO Economy screams, "major afterthought with little effort put into it!"4 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
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Read all 18 pages before you decide to comment.
Edited by Makkir on May 2, 2014 5:59AM1 -
methjester✭✭✭
If your argument has to do with the ease of selling and obtaining items, well then maybe there is a different approach than a global Auction House. Maybe an easier way to access your bank/guild store is better. Or, as already been suggested, a trade district/zone that is engaging, fun, hang out place, and gives the opportunity to trade with each other (maybe even cross faction) with even possibly lower fees or something.
It also sounds like, from your post, that in the VR ranks you don't exactly have a city "hub" to hang around. I guess in comparison I mean you don't have a Stormwind or Orgimaar? I haven't gotten near that point in the game yet.
Again, I think it'd be cool to have a trade zone (Quests, hang out Hub for players to chat, find groups, and trade. Maybe offer Kiosks with lower fees)
There is no central hub, nor is there one possible. There are only so many people allowed in each splinter of a zone at a time. My shouts are only reaching maybe a hundred to two hundred people at a time. Couple that with the joke that is the current state of guild stores and you have a serious problem. Am I ahead of the level curve probably, but I can at least see how the distribution of spoils will take place down the road.
Factor in that only guilds rich or splurgy enough to buy out a kiosk to fix prices are going to succeed. What if I'm in that guild and someone else wants to sell the same thing? That's a conflict. Someone has to go now, people won't be able to play nice. Good luck getting in a guild on the second wave to outsell someone who already has their place.
I'm sure in popular MMO's (I doubt they exist) without auction houses they don't have highly fractured populations, with no central city, with only the prospect of a "trade guild" saving the day with their market. Factor in those three things and tell me how you are going to feel 5 months from now being forced to buy and sell everything with a shout. It's going to get really old, really fast.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Read all 18 pages before you decide to comment.
He doesn't have to read all 18 pages to see the Straw Man you're trying to build here Makkir. Because you're assuming everyone who wants an auction house are just lazy players who want an easy way to rush to the end of the game. And that's just not accurate.
Many of us want an auction house because it would allow us to enjoy the game more. It has absolutely nothing to do with being lazy or wanting to reach the endgame in a week. So you're bringing a false context to this debate - and that's basically what a Straw Man Argument is.
As I've said before many times, I would argue the current economy actually encourages people to rush to the end. Because it makes finding the materials you need so difficult a lot of people just say to hell with it and don't take their character and crafts as seriously as they would like to until reaching level 50.
So if you really do want players to take their time and enjoy leveling up their characters without feeling rushed - you should really consider supporting an auction house. Because that's exactly the effect one would have on many players, including myself.
Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 10:01AM3 -
CyberAuthorSoul ShrivenPerhaps they could give a guildmaster the option to invite 4 other guildmasters to link their guild stores together? Just a thought.0
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Except the type of cheating I'm referring to is only possible and enabled via a global auction house, making your little opinion pretty moot.
Regardless, ZOS is smarter than the "I WANT IT NOW" kids, and understands that a global auction house is garbage and will just give carte blanche to cheaters to ruin the economy. Too bad, so sad, suck it up.
Sensationalist hyperbole. I've played multiple MMO's extensively, and there are very, very few that do not have auction houses. I have never seen the economy "ruined" or "controlled", because of an AH ever. Not once. Been doing this since 1999. I've seen the economy ruined by dupes and exploits, but not because of an auction house.3 -
Khandi✭✭✭Where people are blind is the fact that this will help gold sellers. heck i want to bring one market that was ruined due to gold sellers..FFXI remember that 32k for a lvl 5 weapon. yea..gold sellers will eventually win the pricing war and players will be forced to buy from them. The AH is a great way to help them out, and i personally do not want the AH. Kiosks perhaps but not a AH.
Wrong. The ESO game itself has the issue with gold sellers and they are working on it as we speak.
TERA has had a Trade Broker from day one and there are zero **ZERO** (for those that didn't get it the first time) gold sellers in TERA. So either your thinking is faulty and/or you are simply trying to stir up controversy.
One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde3 -
Khandi✭✭✭
[/quote]
You are missing my point.
When you increase the amount of people in the market than means there are more potential customers. It doesn't just increase the amount of suppliers.
That's why you can make more money in a larger market even though there is more competition.[/quote]
"When you increase the amount of people in the market than means there are more potential customers. It doesn't just increase the amount of suppliers."
That statement describes me to a T. I often buy from a auction house but only post a select few items. So I am the person that proves Jeremy's point.
One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde3 -
NukaCola✭✭✭NO to auction house. It will create endless problems and complains everywhere. Abusers and botters will celebrate. YES to trade chat. Trade guilds are fine for the auction house needs.1
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tylarthb16_ESO✭✭✭NO to auction house. It will create endless problems and complains everywhere. Abusers and botters will celebrate. YES to trade chat. Trade guilds are fine for the auction house needs.
It will solve so many supply problems and basic shopping. if there are players wanting to abuse a system or botters, well heck their activity will be plain to see for those to check, and damn sight easier to police. But best of all it will give a hell of alot of players access to an economy. It is no accident that mmos use global Ah mechanics, its called progress.3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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You are missing my point.
When you increase the amount of people in the market than means there are more potential customers. It doesn't just increase the amount of suppliers.
That's why you can make more money in a larger market even though there is more competition.[/quote]
"When you increase the amount of people in the market than means there are more potential customers. It doesn't just increase the amount of suppliers."
That statement describes me to a T. I often buy from a auction house but only post a select few items. So I am the person that proves Jeremy's point.
[/quote]
You are right you get an larger marked, more buyers and sellers.
However an MMO is an weird economy, most items come from random loot and and nodes and most players is interested in fast and sure money for their loot, unless its something serious rare and expensive.
You will however sell anything on AH if the AH give better profit than the NPC vendors.
If you have lots of items is an AH most players will simply underbid the other with a gold. I have done this myself a lot in WOW.
ESO is not WOW, it has far more loot than WOW, most is unbound or BOE and anybody can harvest any node.
Far more players are questing and grinding than crafting.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Except the type of cheating I'm referring to is only possible and enabled via a global auction house, making your little opinion pretty moot.
Regardless, ZOS is smarter than the "I WANT IT NOW" kids, and understands that a global auction house is garbage and will just give carte blanche to cheaters to ruin the economy. Too bad, so sad, suck it up.
Sensationalist hyperbole. I've played multiple MMO's extensively, and there are very, very few that do not have auction houses. I have never seen the economy "ruined" or "controlled", because of an AH ever. Not once. Been doing this since 1999. I've seen the economy ruined by dupes and exploits, but not because of an auction house.
You apparently are blind and deaf then, since it happens in literally every MMO with a global auction house.
You can keep claiming it doesn't, but you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about at all, which does not surprise me.
The people clamoring for a crap global AH don't understand even the first thing about how they affect games or their MASSIVE vulnerabilities to abuse and manipulation.
Your IGNORANCE does not change reality - global AHs are a free pass for cheaters to skullhump the economy.
Luckily, ZOS actually has smart designers and does understand this, and that's why they won't be adding a global AH, regardless of how many AH cheaters whine about the lack of it.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 2, 2014 3:45PM2 -
methjester✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Except the type of cheating I'm referring to is only possible and enabled via a global auction house, making your little opinion pretty moot.
Regardless, ZOS is smarter than the "I WANT IT NOW" kids, and understands that a global auction house is garbage and will just give carte blanche to cheaters to ruin the economy. Too bad, so sad, suck it up.
Sensationalist hyperbole. I've played multiple MMO's extensively, and there are very, very few that do not have auction houses. I have never seen the economy "ruined" or "controlled", because of an AH ever. Not once. Been doing this since 1999. I've seen the economy ruined by dupes and exploits, but not because of an auction house.
You apparently are blind and deaf then, since it happens in literally every MMO with a global auction house.
You can keep claiming it doesn't, but you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about at all, which does not surprise me.
The people clamoring for a crap global AH don't understand even the first thing about how they affect games or their MASSIVE vulnerabilities to abuse and manipulation.
Your IGNORANCE does not change reality - global AHs are a free pass for cheaters to skullhump the economy.
Luckily, ZOS actually has smart designers and does understand this, and that's why they won't be adding a global AH, regardless of how many AH cheaters whine about the lack of it.
Auction houses are also an avenue for the regular player to make quick and easy cash. You get out of it what you put into it. The naysayers always act like the only ones who will gain anything will be the super auctioneers and the goldsellers. They will be here making gold and breaking rules no matter what. An auction house will be good for everyone. There is no proof anywhere that an auction house has crippled, brought down, or diminished the value of a game.
Prove me wrong. Show me that game where they added an auction house to an existing game and it died and I'll shut up go home and I'll even give you my stuff.
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »ChairGraveyard wrote: »Except the type of cheating I'm referring to is only possible and enabled via a global auction house, making your little opinion pretty moot.
Regardless, ZOS is smarter than the "I WANT IT NOW" kids, and understands that a global auction house is garbage and will just give carte blanche to cheaters to ruin the economy. Too bad, so sad, suck it up.
Sensationalist hyperbole. I've played multiple MMO's extensively, and there are very, very few that do not have auction houses. I have never seen the economy "ruined" or "controlled", because of an AH ever. Not once. Been doing this since 1999. I've seen the economy ruined by dupes and exploits, but not because of an auction house.
You apparently are blind and deaf then, since it happens in literally every MMO with a global auction house.
You can keep claiming it doesn't, but you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about at all, which does not surprise me.
The people clamoring for a crap global AH don't understand even the first thing about how they affect games or their MASSIVE vulnerabilities to abuse and manipulation.
Your IGNORANCE does not change reality - global AHs are a free pass for cheaters to skullhump the economy.
Luckily, ZOS actually has smart designers and does understand this, and that's why they won't be adding a global AH, regardless of how many AH cheaters whine about the lack of it.
It does not happen, never has. You can't provide a single example, because one does not exist. And don't try to use D3 as your example, RMT want's a word with you.
I've played EQ, EQ2, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, AoC, Tera, and they all have successful economies where people can buy and sell freely on a serverwide market. Not one of those games has had their economy ruined or "skullhumped" by cheaters due to an auction house. In all of these games I can buy what I need, and sell what I don't. There is no limitation. Rare items are expensive, just like in the real world, common items are not, just like in the real world.Edited by Drachenfier on May 2, 2014 4:16PM5 -
LordNowe✭✭If we were to take this into real-world perspectives, a global auction house system would be like the global market. Prices would more or less balance out (supply and demand pending, of course), and stabalize over time. Yes, there may be some items that fluctuate, but overall prices would become steady. Global Economy is something that we see every day in the real world - that coffee you buy isn't produced locally, I can almost guarantee it (note, I said almost).
I can see both sides of the argument. There are things to be said about the "Mom and Pop" stores fighting the massive supergiant conglomerates that we now have (*cough, Walmart, cough*).
And now, with "Guild Kiosks" coming, it's going to push these "mom and pop" guilds out of the way because they won't be able to compete with the massive trading guilds that already exist. Is it important? Probably. All it means is that the "Mom and Pop" guilds will have to work a bit harder to earn their gold.
Granted, I'm not going to assume that "most people" (*wink wink, cough cough: buzzword*) are already in a trading guild, but these guilds generally tend to go one of two ways:
1. Tons of items on the guild store, decent prices because supply generally tends to exceed demand.
2. Not enough items on the guild store, poor to ludicrous prices because apparent supply is lower than demand.
I've been a member of a few of the guilds that fall in category 2 (2,000g for a level 18 green item? I think not). In situation 1, you have people actually using the trade guild for its intended purpose: trading. That doesn't involve just selling an item, as someone earlier in the thread implied (no, I won't call anyone out past that). If I'm looking for a specific item, I don't use /z first and foremost, I check the guild store. Barring that: ask the guild. Generally someone has the item I'm looking for at a decent price, or are willing to negotiate.
Scenario 2, unfortunately, is far more common. These are what I would term the "faux" trading guilds with substandard quality of their small economy. Is that the guild's fault? Probably not, its just that people are using the guild as a text-based trading guild and either ignoring, or ignorant, about the fact that the guild has a store.
Keep in mind, those are only two possibilities that I have happened to see in-game, as it currently stands. Are there more? Certainly. Would an in-game, Faction or World-wide auction house solve all of the problems? Almost certainly not. Fixing the guild store UI first would go a long way to fixing the perceived problems with the "broken" economy.
...This went on far longer than I thought it would...
/gets off crate.2 -
methjester✭✭✭The bad thing is, most of us have been playing MMO's for a long time, and know the current system and the upcoming kiosk system will fail. It will. I don't know what they are trying to prevent from happening, but stifling the economy is going to drive people away. With Wildstar looming, and a WOW expansion coming... yeah, lets alienate people from a major aspect of an MMO.7
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NukaCola✭✭✭What's the point of even playing if you can buy everything off the auction house? Auction houses are the worst and laziest thing ever created in videogames. At least in this game you can do that only with ''friends'' (guild members). Is it rewarding to buy gear from some random name in a shopping window? At least draw the line to only crafting materials,potions and glyphs. Even if it was like that i expect to see the market flooded with goods sold by aijghue or opahhpc.2
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭You want an EZ-mode AH game - go play WoW. Nuff said.
For my part, I'm glad that the AH cheaters have no way to screw this game up - and the people whining here that want to just game an AH with auto-buy/sell orders and external automation tools can suck it up.
Too bad, you don't get to cheat the economy. Booo freaking hoo.Edited by ChairGraveyard on May 2, 2014 5:26PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is it rewarding to buy gear from some random name in a shopping window?
Why is it any more rewarding to buy gear from some random name on the trade channel or a Guild Store listing?
I'm not understanding your point.
Friends can still help friends out. Having an Auction House would not prevent this.Edited by Jeremy on May 2, 2014 5:29PM5
This discussion has been closed.