Notes on the Quitting ESO epidemic.

VaranisArano · August 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

It seems logical that people doing easy content and complaining it is too easy should probably move up to doing the current harder content. My guess would be that those people who will now have 30% less damage and healing and can no longer kill river trolls will simply go back to killing wolves and complaining that they are too easy.

It's not the players doing easy content who are the ones complaining that it is too easy.

Ironically, yes, players like me who regularly do both quest overland content and normal/vet dungeons do complain that Quest content is too easy.

Varanis Arano has stood face to face with High Kinlord Rillis' many daedroth while her fellow Undaunted battled to subdue their master. Meanwhile, High Priest Vandacia was pretty easy, especially when you consider that ZOS gave her backup in the form of archers and the Ambitions.

Guess which one of them was supposed to be a major threat capable of ending the world?

Oh, and by the way, Varanis does like 10k DPS, max. I started questing on her because my Dark Brotherhood Silencer does about 18k DPS, and she was slaughtering quest minibosses before I could even see their mechanics. I'm already doing the "nerf thyself" method, and the last time I played a Chapter on a brand new, no CP character, Summerset was also pretty darned easy...

Sorry, but we're not all super-duper high DPS players making those complaints. I'd like the option to have quest content that has a difficulty commensurate with the threat described in the story. (And no, the other suggestion to move up to harder content doesn't really apply in my case, since I still want to do the quests for the story.)

UnabashedlyHonest · August 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

There absolutely IS an epidemic of people leaving ESO. Ask any trading guild GM. Ask any trial raid leader. Ask any PvP regular and they will tell you there absolutely IS a mass exodus of players leaving ESO.

I've been a member is a successful trading guild for quite awhile now and we had one member say they were unhappy with the changes. Except for an occasional member leaving, which happens in all guilds, the only ones we lost since the update were those who were purged for not meeting the weekly sales requirements, and they were quickly replaced.

I've been all over Tamriel and I see just as many other players as I always have going about business as usual.

What trading guild are you referring to and where is the trader located?

You've repeatedly posted that you don't do solo or group trials, don't do battlegrounds, that you don't PvP and that you don't participate in vet HM dungeons or the PTS. That means there is a whole heck of a lot of the game you have not taken part in.

The major trade guilds that pay tens of millions of gold/week to keep their prime traders are, in fact, losing so many members lately that they are seriously struggling to pay the rent now days. Sure, if your trader is in some obscure location and populated with a small number of casual players they're doing fine. But the major trade guilds certainly ARE NOT doing fine now days. They are struggling.

Not taking part in something doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. ......

Actually, not taking part in any given content literally does mean you know less about that content and what it takes to complete it than the people who do participate in and complete that content.

Someone who's never gone scuba diving knows much less about scuba diving than someone who's been diving for years. That's how experience works. Someone with first hand experience knows way more about any given activity than someone with no first hand experience doing that activity.

BahometZ · August 2022

All I'll say is after many years I've never seen so many people upset with the state of the game. I've seen more people leave, raid teams disband, guilds end, in this short spell since the u35 process began, than at any point. I've also noticed significant drops in sales at a prime trader. I still see a tonne of people in the game, so the population is there, but gotta wonder what they're doing and how much content they're engaged in, because challenging content is turning into a wasteland. If this game is just going to become a shallow overland romp with no skill required, milquetoast storylines, draped in fashion and housing all locked behind crown store purchase, gotta wonder how long people with substance will stick around.

mpicklesster · August 2022

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Y'all do realize that between the two statements "Among the players I know, there's a quitting epidemic" and "Among the players I know, there's not a quitting epidemic" can both be true statements, right? You're starting to circle quite a bit.

Good point. While Seam Charts does show a ~14% decline in players for the past 30 days vs. July but is not showing a notable change since the update launched. More importantly, comparing the past 30 days to August 2019, the last year not bloated by COVID's impact, there is little change.

While we may see players in our circle leaving the game due to this update, it is questionable that we are experiencing a mass exodus. Ofc, this is based on the only broad data source available. While limited, it is a better indicator of the game's health than the small circle of people any of us run with.

Also according to Steam Charts, ESO logins have gone down by about 20% since 8/22 (i.e., the release of U35).

On 8/22, logins peaked at about 24,309:

Today, 8/26, logins peaked at about 18,991:

(the difference between the 2 peaks is technically 21.8%, but I just said 20% for the sake of brevity).

P.S. The up-and-down, sinusoidal nature of login activity is probably just due to daytime versus nighttime differences in login activity. For sinusoidal data like that, you just have to make sure you analyze only the peaks or only the valleys if you want to measure rate of change without having to bring trigonometry into the mix. Hence why I just compared the two peaks from 8/22 and today.

I also looked up last year's data from Steam Charts, and it was just a line:

So things were either entirely different back then or they don't store day-to-day data that far back (or a bit of both).

Anyway--I'd say a 20% drop in 4 days isn't...good? That's 1/5 of their player base (at least according to Steam).

SilverBride · August 2022

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not taking part in something doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. ......

Actually, not taking part in any given content literally does mean you know less about that content and what it takes to complete it than the people who do participate in and complete that content.

Someone who's never gone scuba diving knows much less about scuba diving than someone who's been diving for years. That's how experience works. Someone with first hand experience knows way more about any given activity than someone with no first hand experience doing that activity.

This is what I said in it's entirety:

Not taking part in something doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. I was an avid raider in other MMOS and know what it takes to succeed at end game. I just have no desire to do it any more. I've also done a lot of PvP in the past.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

All I can say is I've never had trouble selling in my guild trader. Ita one of the bigger ones and in a major city and my sales have plummeted. Especially for items related to Golding equipment and end game food items/alchemy. That tells me people aren't raiding. 3 of my raid guilds have shuttered. All progs are dead in the water and many of my friends and guildies have left. I just find myself wondering around farming mats because I can't find vet trials anymore. The log in numbers even for my trading guild which had a wait list is way down. I won't say their all quiting but people are certainly depressed and not logging in as much or for as long. I'm definitely not either.

sbr32 · August 2022

BahometZ wrote: »

All I'll say is after many years I've never seen so many people upset with the state of the game. I've seen more people leave, raid teams disband, guilds end, in this short spell since the u35 process began, than at any point. I've also noticed significant drops in sales at a prime trader. I still see a tonne of people in the game, so the population is there, but gotta wonder what they're doing and how much content they're engaged in, because challenging content is turning into a wasteland. If this game is just going to become a shallow overland romp with no skill required, milquetoast storylines, draped in fashion and housing all locked behind crown store purchase, gotta wonder how long people with substance will stick around.

Again in game population numbers mean very little due to the way instances/shards work in the meta-server

sbr32 · August 2022

I will repost this, that I posted in the PTS forum on July 19 ( https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7663239/#Comment_7663239 )

I can only speak for myself, but I have seen a bunch of other people share similar thoughts here and on other platforms. For the record I think I am a mid-tier, maybe high end of mid-tier, PvE end game player. I have can hit 100k on a perfect parse; I have completed vKA HM, the first 2 SS Dragons on HM, Oax on HM but I haven't pushed any of those further and I have known for a while that vet DLC trifectas are not a reasonable goal for me.

I am not quitting because of any specific thing that was introduced last week. I agree with a lot of the mission statements that came with the 8.1.0 notes.

I am quitting because I will not spend any more time, money or energy on a game where a main part of the dev team appears to have no clue what they are doing, both short term and long term. I am not, and have never been, a software developer but I cannot imagine how anyone, much less a team of people, can think what was proposed on the 11th was a good idea much less would actually solve the problems they think need solved. It hurts the wrong people, it makes the game significantly less fun and continues a run of insane up-and-down back-and-forth yo-yo dev decisions on combat over the last handful of years. I don't know (and don't care at this point) if it was the same combat team but I will never forget a series of "balance" patches from a few years ago where they buffed MagDK with a dev comment that MagDK had historically underperformed. 3 months later, in the very next "balance" patch they nerfed MagDK so hard that they were worse than they ever were when they were "historically underperforming". To be clear I have played MagDK enough to have 1 at max level but have less than 30 hours on the character, so this is not me being mad at them nerfing my favorite toon.

I have no idea how an 8 year old game can be making 40%+ adjustments to core skills that have been in the game since launch. How can anyone support a game that is so direction-less and vision-less that core skills that have been in the game for 8 years can be in a state that they need buffed or nerfed by 40%? How can I trust a game where the senior creative leadership team is not only out of touch with their player base, but openly and publicly antagonistic towards them?

The numbers and classes and specific details of this PTS patch are irrelevant, except that they show that the senior creative leadership and the combat team are not up to the job of running and maintaining a game I want to play and support.

spartaxoxo · August 2022

mpicklesster wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Y'all do realize that between the two statements "Among the players I know, there's a quitting epidemic" and "Among the players I know, there's not a quitting epidemic" can both be true statements, right? You're starting to circle quite a bit.

Good point. While Seam Charts does show a ~14% decline in players for the past 30 days vs. July but is not showing a notable change since the update launched. More importantly, comparing the past 30 days to August 2019, the last year not bloated by COVID's impact, there is little change.

While we may see players in our circle leaving the game due to this update, it is questionable that we are experiencing a mass exodus. Ofc, this is based on the only broad data source available. While limited, it is a better indicator of the game's health than the small circle of people any of us run with.

Also according to Steam Charts, ESO logins have gone down by about 20% since 8/22 (i.e., the release of U35).

On 8/22, logins peaked at about 24,309:

Today, 8/26, logins peaked at about 18,991:

(the difference between the 2 peaks is technically 21.8%, but I just said 20% for the sake of brevity).

P.S. The up-and-down, sinusoidal nature of login activity is probably just due to daytime versus nighttime differences in login activity. For sinusoidal data like that, you just have to make sure you analyze only the peaks or only the valleys if you want to measure rate of change without having to bring trigonometry into the mix. Hence why I just compared the two peaks from 8/22 and today.

I also looked up last year's data from Steam Charts, and it was just a line:

So things were either entirely different back then or they don't store day-to-day data that far back (or a bit of both).

Anyway--I'd say a 20% drop in 4 days isn't...good? That's 1/5 of their player base (at least according to Steam).

A lot of times with these unpopular updates, people come back after the next update. This game is more susceptible to people just leaving and coming back than others i have seen. I will say those early numbers definitely don't look good. We'll see how many people we have permanently lose versus just taking a break while U35 is over, but that's not a great look.

U35 didn't just make a lot of high end raiders leave, it made a lot of people who are on the high end of middle tier leave too. That 60k dps who can't weave well that just had all their progress reset, that 35k DPS that had just started feeling comfortable in low end vet content and has been knocked back into overland, those people who finally got to 25k dps with Oakensoul because they found something that worked despite their bad ping or age or whatever? Those guys are gone now. It's not a great look for ZOS to tout an accessibility patch and then nerf everything that made the game more accessible.

ElvenOverlord · August 2022

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

So much melodrama in this thread. People burn out all the time and an update that forces yet another meta change is a great time to take a break from the grind. The dev team being very uncommunicative made things worse.

Cyrodiil seems as busy as ever with a lot more open field mass battles. Probably since everyone feels tankier so they don't have to hide in keeps. It's a lot of fun.

The two new dungeons are superb and brilliantly designed.

The new meta has put new life into theorycrafting. New rotations, new builds, new gear combinations. The hybridization of stats also contributes to this, opening up so many new off-meta combinations.

At the end of the day there is more to ESO than pumping out the highest DPS and running trifectas. The majority of players want to have fun running dungeons with off-meta gear, questing, exploring, decorating, roleplaying, trading, achievement hunting, collecting, etc. None of that has been negatively affected by U35 at all.

You do realize a lot of content creators steer away from theorycrafting because within 3 months your video is basically worth nothing anymore? The pace of change is actually bad for theorycrafting, not good. You can spend a good month getting your build and sets put together just to have 2 months left to actually play and enjoy the build you created.

I appreciate that the game is good for you. Your point is basically that since it doesnt effect you it doesnt exist. Cool. Glad your having fun, thats the main point of the game. I salute you.

Thats not really the target audience of this thread id think though. People happily playing the game arent thinking about quitting or already quit like many people that have posted here. There seems to be a general trend and theme to why people are leaving as well; changes are too drastic, too much at once, and implemented too quickly.

I think a lot of people that quit also are burnt out like myself from participating in PTS week 1-5 giving ideas for how to make u35 better because we all knew it wasnt going to be good. There was a lack of communication and especially respect towards the playerbase. Week 1 PTS forums were popping. There was hope all the way until week 5 then forums just died down along with hope for the future.

Its not just u35. Its all of it taken together that has burned many players.

Exactly. His comment definitely reads like "me and mine are good so the rest of y'all complaining just to complain and overreacting"

alternatelder · August 2022

Pevey wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

This is wishful thinking. I rarely visit these forums anymore. Because I was part of the quitting ESO epidemic. (About 6 weeks sober from destructive ESO addiction, to be specific).

The reason for me was lots of little things that added up to one big realization when the u35 preview hit: When you start feeling mostly negative things in relation to something you are supposedly doing for fun, it’s time to part ways.

I was curious to see how people have responded now that the update has gone live. It’s about as we predicted.

The only wishful thinking is the loud minority claiming the playerbase is being emptied and that it will make Zos shift to reverse.

alternatelder · August 2022

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Extreme casual here, and I just want to ask one question to the devs...

What was so wrong with pre 35 that you needed to gut 99% of my enjoyment from the game?

I have enjoyed your game for a couple years, but taking twice as long to kill trash now is the reason I left other games!

Extreme casual with 2500 forum visits...90% of the content is pretty relaxing gameplay. I'm barely seeing a difference, if any, in my solo play. I'm seeing the same result from many others. How did this update kill 99% of your enjoyment?

Amottica · August 2022

mpicklesster wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Y'all do realize that between the two statements "Among the players I know, there's a quitting epidemic" and "Among the players I know, there's not a quitting epidemic" can both be true statements, right? You're starting to circle quite a bit.

Good point. While Seam Charts does show a ~14% decline in players for the past 30 days vs. July but is not showing a notable change since the update launched. More importantly, comparing the past 30 days to August 2019, the last year not bloated by COVID's impact, there is little change.

While we may see players in our circle leaving the game due to this update, it is questionable that we are experiencing a mass exodus. Ofc, this is based on the only broad data source available. While limited, it is a better indicator of the game's health than the small circle of people any of us run with.

Also according to Steam Charts, ESO logins have gone down by about 20% since 8/22 (i.e., the release of U35).

On 8/22, logins peaked at about 24,309:

Today, 8/26, logins peaked at about 18,991:

(the difference between the 2 peaks is technically 21.8%, but I just said 20% for the sake of brevity).

P.S. The up-and-down, sinusoidal nature of login activity is probably just due to daytime versus nighttime differences in login activity. For sinusoidal data like that, you just have to make sure you analyze only the peaks or only the valleys if you want to measure rate of change without having to bring trigonometry into the mix. Hence why I just compared the two peaks from 8/22 and today.

I also looked up last year's data from Steam Charts, and it was just a line:

So things were either entirely different back then or they don't store day-to-day data that far back (or a bit of both).

Anyway--I'd say a 20% drop in 4 days isn't...good? That's 1/5 of their player base (at least according to Steam).

You are looking at peak, not average, players for the day. The peak can more easily be skewed as it is a very short-term measurement.

Also, the more worthy comparison is comparing the same month across years as it eliminates seasonal fluctuations. That is how business people and analysts look at such information. Even then, I go back to 2019 to eliminate the peak that came with COVID since we expected a decline over time as things got back to a new normal. That puts ESO on an even keel which, while not bad, does not have the growth they were dealing with. Also, while less of a drop, ESO did see a drop in August 2019 numbers from the previous month of July, though not as big.

renne · August 2022

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

They are afraid to do just that!

If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

* Story? ( Most players play the game without even bothering about the said lore/story)
* Gear? ( Yes, players would love new gear but they want something more of what ESO patches are known for )
*New dungeons? ( Not all players do PvE content, most play ESO solely for PvP and I am one of those player.)

Lastly, Natch Potes! Will lose its excitement and it's value.( Most of players, just scroll directly to the gameplay/combat changes)

You find patch notes and patch cycles exciting? Ive come to associate patch notes over 4 years playing as anxiety inducing and terrifying. Been awhile since patch notes had me excited. Most games I get excited. Not ESO.

This is an absolute mood.

In contrast there was a devstream today from the crew of a F2P looter shooter game and the players are all a-buzz with excitement over their announcements, some to fix definite problems with gameplay, some improvements, etc. That the new creative director also proper plays the game doesn't hurt, it makes it feel like she actually knows what she's talking about and what the players want out of the game, and I never feel like she's going to make a tweet basically insulting the playerbase for being able to interpret and read between the lines for combat updates. Also reminds me how at their game's convention they shifted an update about something the community really wanted to know more info about to the start of the show instead of *checks notes* banning people from chat for even mentioning a topic, like ESO does.

I know it's oviously not a 1:1 situation because looter shooters and MMORPGs are vastly different kinds of games but my god, how good it feels to play a game with dev updates and patch notes/etc that you don't straight up dread.

Tsilara · August 2022

.

renne wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

They are afraid to do just that!

If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

* Story? ( Most players play the game without even bothering about the said lore/story)
* Gear? ( Yes, players would love new gear but they want something more of what ESO patches are known for )
*New dungeons? ( Not all players do PvE content, most play ESO solely for PvP and I am one of those player.)

Lastly, Natch Potes! Will lose its excitement and it's value.( Most of players, just scroll directly to the gameplay/combat changes)

You find patch notes and patch cycles exciting? Ive come to associate patch notes over 4 years playing as anxiety inducing and terrifying. Been awhile since patch notes had me excited. Most games I get excited. Not ESO.

This is an absolute mood.

In contrast there was a devstream today from the crew of a F2P looter shooter game and the players are all a-buzz with excitement over their announcements, some to fix definite problems with gameplay, some improvements, etc. That the new creative director also proper plays the game doesn't hurt, it makes it feel like she actually knows what she's talking about and what the players want out of the game, and I never feel like she's going to make a tweet basically insulting the playerbase for being able to interpret and read between the lines for combat updates. Also reminds me how at their game's convention they shifted an update about something the community really wanted to know more info about to the start of the show instead of *checks notes* banning people from chat for even mentioning a topic, like ESO does.

I know it's oviously not a 1:1 situation because looter shooters and MMORPGs are vastly different kinds of games but my god, how good it feels to play a game with dev updates and patch notes/etc that you don't straight up dread.

As a former microsoft game dev, engineer, and architect myself, having been a part of some pretty big and successful projects in the past, that's how a good developer interacts with a community.

They actually play their games and more than just one aspect of it. They don't just impose their vision in a project like this. They don't break what works. In some rare cases you nerf, in most cases, you buff for balance, so you are not taking away from people, you are giving where its needed. This creates creep, that creep in power is very manage-able if done right.

They also listen objectively and its really astounding how with all the feedback they were given they went forward with u35, I assume someone's bonus's we're the driving factor. They don't let marketing steer the ship, and there should be a clear disconnect between the people who market and the development staff.

[snip]

Its community that generates the money for their paychecks. While aspects of a community often ask for unrealistic changes, or gripe and moan about changes, the volume has gone way up, and if this pattern continues will trend to 11. This is more than just an oops. messed up the merge.

From what I have seen there really does appear to be a disconnect between the developers and the community, and its been going on for a few years. It was quite amazing seeing how fast threads were shut down or simply deleted, when the changes first hit. You be reading one, then hit page 2 and the thread was gone. Or you refreshed the page and the thread was completely gone. Its their forum, their rules, they can censor however they want, but people are not blind and when people feel left out they do move on.

I feel that those staffing shifts during Covid, and when the company was purchased by Microsoft are part of the problem, new people with new ideas are in charge of somethings they don't fully understand, but are trying to change the code and backend into something they do.

Initially the changes were not very sweeping, the first dlc after those changes was pretty small compared to some of the others in the past, but now a year out, the impact of those changes shows in the quality of the latest updates, the impact of the changes. They did the exact opposite of what they intended if accessibility was the goal. How they cannot see that means, they lack perspective and understanding. They are stuck in reactionary changes without an apparent vision and there doesn't really appear to be any real direction other than monetize.

[edited for bashing]

Pelanora · August 2022

Microsoft has a head of gaming reporting direct to the CEO of Microsoft. I imagine games don't lose large volumes of players under his watch, without intervention (if indeed that is happening).

So I imagine if the roadmap implementation for 2022 and first half of 2023 doesn't look to be turning things around on numbers (if indeed that is needed) there will be questions asked.

alanmatillab16_ESO · August 2022

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Exactly. His comment definitely reads like "me and mine are good so the rest of y'all complaining just to complain and overreacting"

A bit like "me and mine don't like U35 and don't play so the game is dying"

Idinuse · August 2022

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Exactly. His comment definitely reads like "me and mine are good so the rest of y'all complaining just to complain and overreacting"

A bit like "me and mine don't like U35 and don't play so the game is dying"

For gods sake, people do have guilds and friends list that tell it as it is.

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO · August 2022

renne wrote: »

I know it's oviously not a 1:1 situation because looter shooters and MMORPGs are vastly different kinds of games but my god, how good it feels to play a game with dev updates and patch notes/etc that you don't straight up dread.

Ain’t that the truth!

U35 going live and that looter’s transition stream were the same day. Starkest contrast I ever did see

I_killed_Vivec · August 2022

Amottica wrote: »

You are looking at peak, not average, players for the day. The peak can more easily be skewed as it is a very short-term measurement.

Also, the more worthy comparison is comparing the same month across years as it eliminates seasonal fluctuations. That is how business people and analysts look at such information. Even then, I go back to 2019 to eliminate the peak that came with COVID since we expected a decline over time as things got back to a new normal. That puts ESO on an even keel which, while not bad, does not have the growth they were dealing with. Also, while less of a drop, ESO did see a drop in August 2019 numbers from the previous month of July, though not as big.

In addition, the comparison is between a Monday and a Friday, maybe ESO players DO have a life and tend to go out on Fridays? What were the numbers like the previous Friday?

And it's August, people will be going on holiday... and not everyone sees a holiday as a chance to play the game 24/7.

There could be all kinds of reasons for variations, not least the time it takes for people to download the update and the fact that many people choose not to go into the game immediately following an update because the game can be a little flaky.

keto3000 · August 2022

AUGUST is a major vacation month.

It's been a tough few years for many people irl.

Inflation, supply chain, economic income flux, game change fatigue...
no quick or easy answers to these fluctuations. It's a combination of factors.

Many new mmos that were on the shelf due to COVID are coming out this year-- people are excited to try new games.

Pre-Covid when everyone thought Ashes was about to come out, then... postponed, etc, etc, etc.

Remember the rush to NEW WORLD? ELDEN RING? Classic WoW? Now FFIV 6???

A lot of prominent content creators-influencers using high-octane fear/negative vibe clickbait titles also further fuel the community angst. Online negativity gets higher ratings & $$.

Many of them get paid to steer/push people who might be undecidely on their time/$$ comitment to ESO atm to invest in the other games in which those streamers/content creators plan to invest their time.

That's their $$ reality--that's their right.

I still see alot of players in zones, in Craglorn forming pug trial groups. Faction capital cities are busy. Friends are doing new vet content. Some are off on irl vacations, etc. but are still vested in the game.

A lot of the end game gear HAS NOT CHANGED THAT MUCH.

I see many prominent content creators/streamers still out there making new builds for PvE endgame with 100+ DPS, etc.
using many of the same pre-Update 35 'meta' sets they used in Update 34...

My guilds are about the same level of activity as last year August & in previous years. PC/NA server runs decent now re lag, fps for many of us.

Yes, yes.. I know, the same round of problem areas need to be addressed but, performance is most definitely improved in Cyrodiil.

Many well known content creators have voiced their legitimate concerns both pro and con re UPDATE 35 on PTS when it was most needed!

ZOS listened and made adjustments.

Update 35, as it is now, on LIVE PC/Mac is mostly a good patch in in its current state.

Many content creators have been working hard on solid build updates and streaming quality content since the U35 dropped on Monday, all whilst maintaining a positive, yet, realistic vibe.

Here is a partial list of some of the ESO's content creators & their recent streams/builds that I've enjoyed & shared with guild mates and friends:

Alcast
CURSE- Powerful Magicka Necromancer Build for ESO – Damage Dealer DPS
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-necromancer-build-pve/

Arzyel Gaming
Magicka Hybrid Dragonknight DPS PVE Build - Fireblade - Lost Depths
https://youtu.be/XLwJzNFT5MM

Charles
Magicka Templar | 128k+ DPS PvE build | ESO - Lost Depth
https://youtu.be/qKSzDI2YItg

Deltia's Gaming
Day 1 of Lost Depths PvE and PvP for ESO
https://youtu.be/VgPz47_IbhQ

Dottzgaming (&Pelle412)
MAGICKA TEMPLAR PVE BUILD ESO – RADIANT JUSTICE
https://dottzgaming.com/build/radiant-justice-magicka-templar-pve-build/

Eigh1 Puppies
125K Stamina Necromancer ESO | Lost Depths | Comprehensive Guide for PvE
https://youtu.be/Wl-RikYX5Pk

Hack The Minotaur
Werewolf Is Actually GOOD Again?! The BIG Buff Coming In ESO Update 35!
https://youtu.be/3sWzpdr0Fvk

Jedi Council
Veteran Dreadsail Reef vDSR (U35) ESO Jedi Council Random Run Stamcro DPS Perspective Solo Portalhttps://youtu.be/Z7EiqC_T2CY

JHartEllis
ESO !drops | Thursday: Dungeons, Tribute, and Dailies
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1573513007

Lucky Ghost
https://eso.justlootit.com

Maty Gon
Tipsy Trials Thursday
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572683730

Ninja614
12 Hour Subathon Marathon WHEEE
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572445258

OfficiallyIffy
Jet + Van.... That is all.... as you were!
https://www.twitch.tv/officiallyiffy

Skinny Cheeks
New Dungeons on HM w/ my Oakensoul Magicka Sorcerer| Crown + High Isle Giveaways! | https://www.twitch.tv/skinnycheeks/video/1569301374

Unfading Silence
ESO Magicka NightBlade Bomber - Update 35 - Lost Depths - PvP
https://youtu.be/-QmBOu5TdiY

Unified_Gaming
1 Bar PVP Magicka Sorcerer is nuts! High Isle
https://youtu.be/cPSY_VlLmCo

XYnode
ESO - The EASY SORC PVE Sorcerer build is BACK to it's ROOTS! - The Lost Depths Update!
https://youtu.be/3jPk6VTQNzU

Whether you decide to take a break, play other games as well, leave the game,

OR decide to stay in ESO, play hard, help rebuild our community in a more positive direction—welcome & mentor our newer/returning players…

I hope you have fun. I wish you all PEACE!

Enjoy your summer, keto

LikiLoki · August 2022

Pelanora wrote: »

Microsoft has a head of gaming reporting direct to the CEO of Microsoft. I imagine games don't lose large volumes of players under his watch, without intervention (if indeed that is happening).

So I imagine if the roadmap implementation for 2022 and first half of 2023 doesn't look to be turning things around on numbers (if indeed that is needed) there will be questions asked.

The problems with the game began to accumulate only because Microsoft bought it. When the new owner began to introduce his own standards and management scheme, breaking the good traditions that we recall from a series of games of the elder scrolls

Lady_Galadhiel · August 2022

The threads of the unhappy community and the people begging for communication is turning away new players who inform themselfs before buying the game. This update is in no way, healthy for the game.

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO · August 2022

LikiLoki wrote: »

The problems with the game began to accumulate only because Microsoft bought it. When the new owner began to introduce his own standards and management scheme, breaking the good traditions that we recall from a series of games of the elder scrolls

This is a wild revisionist history considering the current outrage has been consistently building for several years and arguably began before any of us even knew the MS acquisition was a thing.

Xenite · August 2022

Most of my toons are fairly broken at the moment and I just can't seem to find the interest in fixing them.

I had two light attack build toons with molag kena/blood moon. Was fun as heck to play and now they are just ruined and need to be completely reequipped with new specs.

I had a DoT magic DK with deadly and elf bane. His damage output is disgustingly low now so he has to be completely reconfigured as well.

All I can think is why bother? Waste the time, gold and transmute stones to fix toons that will have the skills reworked AGAIN in a few months. Just starting to not care anymore.

Out of 10 characters I have ONE left that doesn't feel like it has to be completely reworked. So yeah... thanks Zenimax.

AMAI460 · August 2022

Well said my friend!

ThirdEye_PULSE · August 2022

LikiLoki wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Microsoft has a head of gaming reporting direct to the CEO of Microsoft. I imagine games don't lose large volumes of players under his watch, without intervention (if indeed that is happening).

So I imagine if the roadmap implementation for 2022 and first half of 2023 doesn't look to be turning things around on numbers (if indeed that is needed) there will be questions asked.

The problems with the game began to accumulate only because Microsoft bought it. When the new owner began to introduce his own standards and management scheme, breaking the good traditions that we recall from a series of games of the elder scrolls

Nah. From where i stand the main problem is drastic changes every 3 months. That has been an issue for as long as I can remember. Its so ingrained in ZOS culture that even when they say they will stop or slow down they couldnt help themselves. Thats what you call an unconscious habit. Which aptly seems to sum up U35: unconscious.

Harry_Toes · August 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

This is wishful thinking. I rarely visit these forums anymore. Because I was part of the quitting ESO epidemic. (About 6 weeks sober from destructive ESO addiction, to be specific).

The reason for me was lots of little things that added up to one big realization when the u35 preview hit: When you start feeling mostly negative things in relation to something you are supposedly doing for fun, it’s time to part ways.

I was curious to see how people have responded now that the update has gone live. It’s about as we predicted.

A small percentage of players quitting isn't an epidemic. I've seen just as many players in game as always and only heard one player even mention the update.

Speaking as a purely casual long time player - the changes don't really bother me.

I do feel for the hardcore end game player who invests a lot of time and energy into trials, PVP achievements and vet dungeons - I'd be upset too if I was in that group.

But I'm not.

ESO for me has the least aggressive rate of change in base game mechanics for the casual player, as compared with other MMOs I've played (Neverwnter, SWTOR, Star Trek, WoW). That's why it's my favorite, and the one I've stuck with through almost 7 years of subscriptions.

danno8 · August 2022

Amottica wrote: »

mpicklesster wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Y'all do realize that between the two statements "Among the players I know, there's a quitting epidemic" and "Among the players I know, there's not a quitting epidemic" can both be true statements, right? You're starting to circle quite a bit.

Good point. While Seam Charts does show a ~14% decline in players for the past 30 days vs. July but is not showing a notable change since the update launched. More importantly, comparing the past 30 days to August 2019, the last year not bloated by COVID's impact, there is little change.

While we may see players in our circle leaving the game due to this update, it is questionable that we are experiencing a mass exodus. Ofc, this is based on the only broad data source available. While limited, it is a better indicator of the game's health than the small circle of people any of us run with.

Also according to Steam Charts, ESO logins have gone down by about 20% since 8/22 (i.e., the release of U35).

On 8/22, logins peaked at about 24,309:

Today, 8/26, logins peaked at about 18,991:

(the difference between the 2 peaks is technically 21.8%, but I just said 20% for the sake of brevity).

P.S. The up-and-down, sinusoidal nature of login activity is probably just due to daytime versus nighttime differences in login activity. For sinusoidal data like that, you just have to make sure you analyze only the peaks or only the valleys if you want to measure rate of change without having to bring trigonometry into the mix. Hence why I just compared the two peaks from 8/22 and today.

I also looked up last year's data from Steam Charts, and it was just a line:

So things were either entirely different back then or they don't store day-to-day data that far back (or a bit of both).

Anyway--I'd say a 20% drop in 4 days isn't...good? That's 1/5 of their player base (at least according to Steam).

You are looking at peak, not average, players for the day. The peak can more easily be skewed as it is a very short-term measurement.

Also, the more worthy comparison is comparing the same month across years as it eliminates seasonal fluctuations. That is how business people and analysts look at such information. Even then, I go back to 2019 to eliminate the peak that came with COVID since we expected a decline over time as things got back to a new normal. That puts ESO on an even keel which, while not bad, does not have the growth they were dealing with. Also, while less of a drop, ESO did see a drop in August 2019 numbers from the previous month of July, though not as big.

Exactly. I mean if I look at the steamchart right now at 7:00AM this Saturday, it has a higher log-in count than any other 7:00am Saturday in August. So game must be doing great right? Wrong. Trends are meant to be longer term measurements.

I thoroughly believe U35 is going to cause a loss of players, but it will not be noticeable for a few weeks at least.

Ragnarok0130 · August 2022

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

[As I understand it, those extremely vocal players basically insisted that ZOS must promise them that no META gear items or things of that nature must ever be "gated" behind the card game, since they absolutely refused to ever play it. In fact, some of those players are so livid over the card game that they will not even interact with the quest giver and accept her quest, merely to shut her up, the way players must do with so many other quest givers in the game.
.

I'm the exact type of player you describe I want to play an MMO not Yugioh and haven't even interacted with the quest giver and never will and think ZoS made the correct decision not to hide any gear relevant to end game behind this mode. With U35 I'm extremely critical of ZoS but I give credit where credit is due with this decision in U34. I just wish I could hide quest markers for missions like this.

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

It seems logical that people doing easy content and complaining it is too easy should probably move up to doing the current harder content. My guess would be that those people who will now have 30% less damage and healing and can no longer kill river trolls will simply go back to killing wolves and complaining that they are too easy.

It's not the players doing easy content who are the ones complaining that it is too easy.

End game players don't care about overland and normal dungeon difficulty because overland will never be challenging after running content like Rockgrove and if it was challenging to us then the casual player base would evaporate if it wasn't an optional difficulty. The combat changes were not due to end game players saying anything needs to be more difficult because we get our difficulty in vet trials. Frankly with how U35 nerfed the very people ZoS claimed over and over that they were helping access harder content I not convinced the devs actually know why their decisions nerfed players in general in U35.