The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
You need to rvert Surprise Attack changes.
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FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭
Each single press of the button has it's own equal chance.
correct, and because of that there is an equally weighted number of outcomes, so it's easy to see how often each of those hit...which is what i explained above.So if your crit chance is 50%, then each individual SA has 50% chance to crit.
yes,
and if you have a 100% guaranteed chance to crit every 4 seconds between those 50% chances...you have realized crit chance larger than 50%. all of the others are 50%, but that one is guaranteed that you can line up with a burst combination.So I can see why you might think that is helpful, but it's not.
for me this is extremely helpful. this is subjective though so if you disagree that's fine. like i said, the amount of realized crit you will get will depend on your build and how often you're not guaranteeing crit with other things. it's a buff for damage though.Even if I led with a heavy attack over SA, I had 50% chance to crit those two auto attacks anyway. I could have just as easily done as not, just as I could have easily crit all those SA's while in cooldown.
do you see how contradictory this is to your other statements(which are mostly right?). you have a 50% chance to land those crits currently. you have a 100% chance to land them next patch. you will crit more because 100 > 50Now the second part of this is I'm RARELY going to throw that many spammables. If I don't have the target in execute in 5 seconds I'm not killing them. For most targets this is what I'll do. (Not including LAs).
0 - Heavy Attack
1 - SA Auto Crit - Start CD
2 - SA - 50%
3 - Executioner or Whirling Blades
That isn't a major buff. It's minor at best because all you did was take away a 50% chance that I would've crit anyway on ONE SA. Meanwhile they removed a CC that was only taken away to justify the guaranteed flank crit.
If you made me weigh a CC that I know will help me stop a runner vs a flank crit with a CD that I don't need, I'll take the CC.
as i posted above, your outcomes with those two surprise attacks on live are:
25% no crit/no crit
50% one of the two surprise attacks crit
25% both of them crit.
On the pts it's:
50% just one of them crits
50% both of them crit
your chances of both of those critting have now increased, meaning more damage. just google a probability calculator or probability/punnett squares.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
That's not really true. The game no longer is black and white, Stam and mag. You can easily sustain concealed weapon by investing a little into mag and mixing your armor.
I haven't worn more than 4 medium since update 29.
The game is in a weird state right now. The hybridization is half way done. While they finished the offensive stats they didn't adjust sustain at all. It is really hard to sustain the secondary resource. Of course you can make it work but it will cripple you in the other areas.
I do believe too that the other morph is better then Surprise Attack now and the best option to run it is with a magica build.1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
Currently I'm Stam and Medium heavy, sure. But I've been down the Mag-Spammable on a stamchar route with another class before, so I'm reasonably confident I can make Concealed Weapon work. As a follow on it's, once again, the weaker morph.
What else?
NB needs tons of magica for utility. You simply wont have juice to sustain the magica morph if you want to heavily stack WD with medium armor. To make it work you will need to put some glyphs into magica reduction or recovery which normally they would be WD.
I believe that Concealed Weapon will cripple you down if you want to use it on a stam build and that Surprise Attack will be a better option (for PvP).1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
Currently I'm Stam and Medium heavy, sure. But I've been down the Mag-Spammable on a stamchar route with another class before, so I'm reasonably confident I can make Concealed Weapon work. As a follow on it's, once again, the weaker morph.
What else?
NB needs tons of magica for utility. You simply wont have juice to sustain the magica morph if you want to heavily stack WD with medium armor. To make it work you will need to put some glyphs into magica reduction or recovery which normally they would be WD.
I believe that Concealed Weapon will cripple you down if you want to use it on a stam build and that Surprise Attack will be a better option (for PvP).
Weapon or spell damage no longer matter. The only difference between medium and light see what passives you want.
I highly suggest everyone mix and match light and medium armor. Either 4 light for mag focused or 4 medium for Stam focused. This will give you better sustain with either type of skills. It will also give you more damage and crit damage from the medium line with more pen and crit % from the light line.
If you still want to be Stam focused with concealed, you just have to balance your attributes to accommodate the extra expenditure.
But with the buff to concealed, the mag melee gank damage will be closer to what Stam melee ganks can do on live right now.Edited by DrSlaughtr on August 16, 2022 5:29PMI drink and I stream things.
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Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
Currently I'm Stam and Medium heavy, sure. But I've been down the Mag-Spammable on a stamchar route with another class before, so I'm reasonably confident I can make Concealed Weapon work. As a follow on it's, once again, the weaker morph.
What else?
NB needs tons of magica for utility. You simply wont have juice to sustain the magica morph if you want to heavily stack WD with medium armor. To make it work you will need to put some glyphs into magica reduction or recovery which normally they would be WD.
I believe that Concealed Weapon will cripple you down if you want to use it on a stam build and that Surprise Attack will be a better option (for PvP).
Mate, if I managed it on a Dragon Knight, Nightblade is child's play.1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
Currently I'm Stam and Medium heavy, sure. But I've been down the Mag-Spammable on a stamchar route with another class before, so I'm reasonably confident I can make Concealed Weapon work. As a follow on it's, once again, the weaker morph.
What else?
NB needs tons of magica for utility. You simply wont have juice to sustain the magica morph if you want to heavily stack WD with medium armor. To make it work you will need to put some glyphs into magica reduction or recovery which normally they would be WD.
I believe that Concealed Weapon will cripple you down if you want to use it on a stam build and that Surprise Attack will be a better option (for PvP).
Mate, if I managed it on a Dragon Knight, Nightblade is child's play.
But imagine a stamina whip. Wouldn't that be easier to manage?
Well with nb you have both versions of the skill and Surprise Attack will work better with medium armor while Concealed Weapon will work better with light armor.
With medium armor it is easier to stack WD/SD thus I suspect that Surprise Attack will be the preferred skill in pvp.
1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
Currently I'm Stam and Medium heavy, sure. But I've been down the Mag-Spammable on a stamchar route with another class before, so I'm reasonably confident I can make Concealed Weapon work. As a follow on it's, once again, the weaker morph.
What else?
NB needs tons of magica for utility. You simply wont have juice to sustain the magica morph if you want to heavily stack WD with medium armor. To make it work you will need to put some glyphs into magica reduction or recovery which normally they would be WD.
I believe that Concealed Weapon will cripple you down if you want to use it on a stam build and that Surprise Attack will be a better option (for PvP).
Weapon or spell damage no longer matter. The only difference between medium and light see what passives you want.
I highly suggest everyone mix and match light and medium armor. Either 4 light for mag focused or 4 medium for Stam focused. This will give you better sustain with either type of skills. It will also give you more damage and crit damage from the medium line with more pen and crit % from the light line.
If you still want to be Stam focused with concealed, you just have to balance your attributes to accommodate the extra expenditure.
But with the buff to concealed, the mag melee gank damage will be closer to what Stam melee ganks can do on live right now.
Yes ik how hybridization works.
What I mean is NBs prefer medium armor passives in PVP because it helps stacking WD/SD really high and it buffs up crit damage. Also medium armor passive helps with stamina regeneration and stamina cost reduction.
So even if on paper Concealed Weapon is a stronger skill most NBs will prefer Surprise Attack.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please answer the question, @Vetixio. What CC is attached to Surprise Attack?
Surprise Attack: Cost: 2295
Stamina
.
Slash an enemy, dealing 3097 Physical Damage and applying the Sundered status effect. Attacking with Surprise Attack from the flank stuns the enemy for 3 seconds and sets them Off Balance.
My bad it has 2 CCs attached if you weave properly, there’s your answer lol.
We're talking about next patch. The Stun got removed. If by the second CC you mean Off Balance, ignoring how clunky it is, that is provided by the base ability Veiled Strike, and thus also by the other morph Concealed Weapon that is superior in every other way now.
So please, enlighten me.
Why would I use Surprise Attack?
Because you will wear medium armor and that is what you can sustain to spam. Also it is a very strong follow up skill when you open up with an ultimate. Cloak + Incap (crit)+ Surprise Attack (crit) + execute will be a strong combo. Then you can rinse and repeat.
Currently I'm Stam and Medium heavy, sure. But I've been down the Mag-Spammable on a stamchar route with another class before, so I'm reasonably confident I can make Concealed Weapon work. As a follow on it's, once again, the weaker morph.
What else?
NB needs tons of magica for utility. You simply wont have juice to sustain the magica morph if you want to heavily stack WD with medium armor. To make it work you will need to put some glyphs into magica reduction or recovery which normally they would be WD.
I believe that Concealed Weapon will cripple you down if you want to use it on a stam build and that Surprise Attack will be a better option (for PvP).
Weapon or spell damage no longer matter. The only difference between medium and light see what passives you want.
I highly suggest everyone mix and match light and medium armor. Either 4 light for mag focused or 4 medium for Stam focused. This will give you better sustain with either type of skills. It will also give you more damage and crit damage from the medium line with more pen and crit % from the light line.
If you still want to be Stam focused with concealed, you just have to balance your attributes to accommodate the extra expenditure.
But with the buff to concealed, the mag melee gank damage will be closer to what Stam melee ganks can do on live right now.
Yes ik how hybridization works.
What I mean is NBs prefer medium armor passives in PVP because it helps stacking WD/SD really high and it buffs up crit damage. Also medium armor passive helps with stamina regeneration and stamina cost reduction.
So even if on paper Concealed Weapon is a stronger skill most NBs will prefer Surprise Attack.
You're still thinking in the old mindset.
Light passives also contribute to damage via pen and, to a lesser degree, crit %.
If you mix your body armor weight you can get the best of both worlds and even on a "Stam focused" NB we use a LOT of mag. Getting cost reduction on both is very beneficial.
Stamina regeneration isn't very helpful when you're sneaking 90% of the time.
If you're running Caluurions, you can run that with any medium set, like deadlands, and mix your body with 3 light and downright murk people.
With 3 medium you miss or on 6% w damage. If your unbuffed damage is 4500, that translates to 270 damage, which is not a very big increase to tooltip. You'll get 2808 pen from those 3 pieces. That's a lot, and considering how much mitigation DKs, necros and templars have.
You do miss out on 6% crit damage but most people are pushing a LOT of crit damage anyway. Meanwhile you get over 50% crit chance fully buffed.
And considering shadowy disguise is the skill you hit most often, having that mag cost reduction is nice.I drink and I stream things.
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shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like my old mindset. I will continue to think with. I'll only be doing things that don't require combat for forseeable future.
Pool Noodle makes me sick to look at it.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭shadyjane62 wrote: »I like my old mindset. I will continue to think with. I'll only be doing things that don't require combat for forseeable future.
Pool Noodle makes me sick to look at it.
More power to you!I drink and I stream things.
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