To the Devs: Why are there boss fights and sky shards that can only be done/collected with a group?

BoraBora · July 2022

Hello!

First of all: Don't get me wrong. ESO is a MMORPG which means playing in a group is encouraged.
But we also know that ESO made the move towards story content for Single players, MAYBE because the developers realized that a big chunk of their customers are fans of the single player Elder Scroll games, so they might like ESO more if it plays and feels a bit more like those games.
And yes, I am one of them. And I just play ESO to have some Elder Scroll content till I wait for the next Solo player Elder Scroll game.
And yes I play ESO with friends, if possible. But as everyone of us has a job and some have a family and kids, it happens that we end up playing ESO solo.

So while playing solo, I experienced that there is certain content that is simply undoable without playing in a group. And I especially mean those bosses that have a game mechanic that makes them only beatable if you play in a group. That Undead Pirate Captain would be one example.
Then I don' understand why some Sky Shards in Cyrodiil are placed in parts of the map that are close to impossible to reach for solo players.
I have especially 2 in mind that are on the territory of the Ebonheart Pact. The only way you could reach them is if the last 2 gates before their "home bases" would be open. And that might be barely the case and would required pretty much a 24/7 observation, to be there at the right moment.
I mean playing solo already has it's "penalties" like you never get through a dungeon as fast as with a group. And using trading guilds is still the fastest way to make some big piles of gold in a short time.
So I would really appreciate it if any content would be doable solo. It would still not take any benefits away from group play!

Sorry if this sounds saur or I issued an unpopular opinion. So don't troll or bash me to hard, ok? ;-)

Snamyap · July 2022

I got all cyrodill skyshards solo, takes a bit of patience and checking the map regularly. And the pirate boss can be killed by going werewolf, it will block the skeleton illusion.
I'm a dedicated solo player as well but group dungeons are content designed for groups. I just accept that I won't be getting past some encounters or obstacles.

renne · July 2022

I've gotten the Cyrodiil skyshards solo with multiple toons, different classes. It's actually pretty easy during MYM when there's a lot of extra campaigns to look between them for ones where one faction is dominating, or if you set a campaign as your home campaign and set it to give you AvA notifications, you can easily find out when the gates have been opened while you're off doing overland things in game, which is what I did.

Caupo · July 2022

Just make a new level10 ebonheart pact character, collect all Cyrodil skyshards in ebonheart pact side, and unlock them via crown store for main character. easiest way and not that expensive crown-wise

M0ntie · July 2022

A tip for getting the skyshards behind the enemy alliance gates. You can collect the skyshards in any campaign. So check the other campaigns too, especially the low population ones.
I completed the Cyro skyshards achievement by riding the entire length of Cyro from the AD base to get the red skyshard when blue owned the map. The sense of achievement was amazing!

FlopsyPrince · July 2022

renne wrote: »

I've gotten the Cyrodiil skyshards solo with multiple toons, different classes. It's actually pretty easy during MYM when there's a lot of extra campaigns to look between them for ones where one faction is dominating, or if you set a campaign as your home campaign and set it to give you AvA notifications, you can easily find out when the gates have been opened while you're off doing overland things in game, which is what I did.

I would agree. A bit nerve-wracking, but I suck at PvP but have snuck through the gates on several characters.

You just have to find a time when no human players are there and ride in and keep running until you get away.

I wish you could go from one "home area" to another without going back out though.

SeaGtGruff · July 2022

As far as the four Cyrodiil skyshards which are in the enemy bases, your alliance doesn't need to be the one that's opened the enemy's gate. So if you notice that an enemy gate is open, head there quickly and try to get inside past the gate guards even if it's the other alliance who opened the gate. Sneak as much as necessary so you can get to the skyshard, although you won't be able to sneak your way past the gate guards. If you're on a mount then you might be able to quickly ride past the guards, then dismount and start sneaking once you're far enough away from them. Once you've collected the skyshard that's behind that gate, either queue for Imperial City for a fast escape, or just ride past the guards again to get out. You can also climb the stairs and jump over the gate if you're having trouble with the guards.

DinoZavr · July 2022

@BoraBora, sorry to point that out, but you are wrong.
All overland skyshards are collectible solo, at Craglorn group delves you might need a self-heal and fetch tris-stats in a quickslot.
All Cyro skyshards are collectable, you just need to select a proper campaign and wait till enemy's gates are open.
I am also a solo player.
Some "seemingly" impossible 4-man can be done. I used werewolf form vesrus last boss in Blackheart Haven, it was easy
i used Psijic Ulti to return back in time for 4 seconds in CoH2 versus cocoon and Ebony Blade.
It is doable. Of course, there are several dungeons with levers and pressure plates (like Direfrost Keep) which cannot be soloed, but these are few.

VaranisArano · July 2022

The reason why skyshards are placed in the Cyrodiil bases is because it's an extra incentive for the alliance to push for scrolls and open the gates.

While you can slip in the open gates and get the skyshard solo, I think it's worth noting that the Alliance War is not a solo activity. It's a faction-based PVP mode originally designed for groups of 8 to 24 players. You can play some aspects of Cyrodiil as a solo player quite effectively, but naturally there are going to be parts of it that require your faction to cooperate, like capturing the keeps to open the gates. Or Emperorship, or running a ram, etc.

Snamyap · July 2022

DinoZavr wrote: »

Of course, there are several dungeons with levers and pressure plates (like Direfrost Keep) which cannot be soloed, but these are few.

You can attract the attention of the troll behind the locked gate with a light or heavy attack. Usually takes quite a few tries, and last time it seemed only a heavy attack worked. And when it's close enough as a Nightblade I can use teleport strike to get through the gate. Other people claim any gap closer works but I haven't tried that yet, since my main is a Nightblade.

Danikat · July 2022

One of the nice things about ESO is you're not limited to playing with a pre-established friendship group or solo, you can play together with anyone who happens to be around, often without even needing to group up.

If I come across a world boss I can't defeat solo on that character I often just wait until another player shows up, then do it at the same time they are, or if that seems to be taking too long I'll ask in zone chat or in my guilds if anyone wants to do it with me and there's usually someone willing to help. (A few times it's been someone who gave up on the boss just before I arrived because they also couldn't do it solo.)

peacenote · July 2022

The other thing is, with each new section of content, more skyshards are added. For most people, there are way more than you'd ever need for skill points. Only my main has all of them, and she doesn't need them.

This is my opinion but it seems like ZOS did not design ESO in a way that you need to get all the skyshards to have a viable build and decent experience in Tamriel. You can pick what content you'd like to get the skill points you need.

I know if you're a "collect them all" type of person that point is irrelevant, but generally speaking ESO is a "something-for-everyone" approach, as opposed to an "everything-can-be-done-with-one-playstyle" approach.

I don't know if the devs will answer but that is probably the "why" you are looking for. There are many people who never step foot in PvP who probably don't know that you can get a bunch of skill points by ranking up. But you can also get them by questing as a solo player and finishing dungeon quests and hunting skyshards so... if you like all the content, you'll get everything. If not, you'll only get the rewards in the content you want to do.

Living_Tribunal · July 2022

I got all cyrodil shards on a non pvp toon over several days. Also found the war tort recipe while doing it! I only died when trying to run through enemy gates. Imperial city shards are even easier. I've still got the sewer ones to do though....just go in when there's less people on.

Narvuntien · July 2022

There is more than enough skyshards to get in single player area's for any build you might want to do.

You can run around cryodil alone, go find an empty campaign.

CaptainVenom · July 2022

Collected all my shards alone. It takes skill (of course enemies will find you travelling Cyrodiil) and luck/a little help from your alliance mates to open the gates.

As for bosses, World and Dungeon (not delves) bosses are meant to be beat by a group of players, even though you can solo them with enough skill, equipment and abilities, albeit with significant difficulty.

But yeah, like you said, MMORPG and stuff. Some group content can be work as solo, some can not.

DMuehlhausen · July 2022

Because this is an MMO and more stuff should be group forced. I believe somebody actually modded Skyrim to allow a friend in game, that seems to be what people want.

JARTHEGREY · July 2022

In terms of the Cyrodiil Skyshards - as one who has been struggling to get them for months and then this morning, managed to get them quite easily - I thought I'd add a bit of detail, since it seems I am not the only one struggling and I now realise I was under a misconception.

The advice has been (in these forums and on Google) to wait until your Alliance owns most of the map (keeps etc) and then you had to wait for a notification to say e.g. "Gates of Chim are open". My misunderstanding was that I thought the gate colour needed to change - it does not.

So I would go into the Campaign, I'd look at the map and see the gates themselves had not changed colour and "thought" the gates would be closed.

What DOES need to change alliance (colour) is the Keep next to the gate (So for Gates of Chim, the nearest Keep is Kingscrest Keep - so as long as that Keep is Blue or Yellow (i.e. not the alliance that owns it) then the gates will be OPEN.

The other bits of advice are all true - pick a time when it's quiet, sneak as much as you can and then just ride full pelt passed the guards. It also helps if you have a general idea where the Skyshards are.

Sorry to have somewhat hijacked the post - although I do agree with the OP. I really only want to do PvE and find it frustrating that I cannot complete some of the Group Dungeons.

Elsonso · July 2022

Danikat wrote: »

One of the nice things about ESO is you're not limited to playing with a pre-established friendship group or solo, you can play together with anyone who happens to be around, often without even needing to group up.

If I come across a world boss I can't defeat solo on that character I often just wait until another player shows up, then do it at the same time they are, or if that seems to be taking too long I'll ask in zone chat or in my guilds if anyone wants to do it with me and there's usually someone willing to help. (A few times it's been someone who gave up on the boss just before I arrived because they also couldn't do it solo.)

I have done this many times in public dungeons to complete the various achievements. Of course, this was back when characters mattered so I was doing the achievements more than once on different builds.

Caupo wrote: »

Just make a new level10 ebonheart pact character, collect all Cyrodil skyshards in ebonheart pact side, and unlock them via crown store for main character. easiest way and not that expensive crown-wise

Personally, I like this way better:

M0ntie wrote: »

A tip for getting the skyshards behind the enemy alliance gates. You can collect the skyshards in any campaign. So check the other campaigns too, especially the low population ones.
I completed the Cyro skyshards achievement by riding the entire length of Cyro from the AD base to get the red skyshard when blue owned the map. The sense of achievement was amazing!

drsalvation · July 2022

BoraBora wrote: »

Hello!

First of all: Don't get me wrong. ESO is a MMORPG which means playing in a group is encouraged.
But we also know that ESO made the move towards story content for Single players, MAYBE because the developers realized that a big chunk of their customers are fans of the single player Elder Scroll games, so they might like ESO more if it plays and feels a bit more like those games.
And yes, I am one of them. And I just play ESO to have some Elder Scroll content till I wait for the next Solo player Elder Scroll game.
And yes I play ESO with friends, if possible. But as everyone of us has a job and some have a family and kids, it happens that we end up playing ESO solo.

So while playing solo, I experienced that there is certain content that is simply undoable without playing in a group. And I especially mean those bosses that have a game mechanic that makes them only beatable if you play in a group. That Undead Pirate Captain would be one example.
Then I don' understand why some Sky Shards in Cyrodiil are placed in parts of the map that are close to impossible to reach for solo players.
I have especially 2 in mind that are on the territory of the Ebonheart Pact. The only way you could reach them is if the last 2 gates before their "home bases" would be open. And that might be barely the case and would required pretty much a 24/7 observation, to be there at the right moment.
I mean playing solo already has it's "penalties" like you never get through a dungeon as fast as with a group. And using trading guilds is still the fastest way to make some big piles of gold in a short time.
So I would really appreciate it if any content would be doable solo. It would still not take any benefits away from group play!

Sorry if this sounds saur or I issued an unpopular opinion. So don't troll or bash me to hard, ok? ;-)

I'm ok with group dungeons being for group content... they are group dungeons after all. But a story-only mode for the dungeon would be nice too.
My brother and I have been able to solo blackheart pirate dungeon as well as fungal grotto II with co-op mechanics, that's all we need.

As for PvP skyshards, I'm also cool with that. It might be annoying having to keep an eye out, but that's just part of the PvP experience. I absolutely hate PvP and farmed for whatever I needed to get out of there (pet lion, gladiator outfit and helm, centurion title and red dye from battlegrounds). I never ever want to go back out there... but if you remove the skyshards from bases, you're practically removing content from PvP, there would be no more incentives for you to try out a zerg in PvP, which is already in a poor dying state.
Otherwise, none of the PvE skyshards are inaccessible without a group, some may require you to take a quest, but it's all solo'able.

Danikat · July 2022

JARTHEGREY wrote: »

In terms of the Cyrodiil Skyshards - as one who has been struggling to get them for months and then this morning, managed to get them quite easily - I thought I'd add a bit of detail, since it seems I am not the only one struggling and I now realise I was under a misconception.

The advice has been (in these forums and on Google) to wait until your Alliance owns most of the map (keeps etc) and then you had to wait for a notification to say e.g. "Gates of Chim are open". My misunderstanding was that I thought the gate colour needed to change - it does not.

So I would go into the Campaign, I'd look at the map and see the gates themselves had not changed colour and "thought" the gates would be closed.

What DOES need to change alliance (colour) is the Keep next to the gate (So for Gates of Chim, the nearest Keep is Kingscrest Keep - so as long as that Keep is Blue or Yellow (i.e. not the alliance that owns it) then the gates will be OPEN.

The other bits of advice are all true - pick a time when it's quiet, sneak as much as you can and then just ride full pelt passed the guards. It also helps if you have a general idea where the Skyshards are.

Sorry to have somewhat hijacked the post - although I do agree with the OP. I really only want to do PvE and find it frustrating that I cannot complete some of the Group Dungeons.

I may be remembering it wrong, but I think the grille in the middle of the gate icon disappears when it's open. But yeah, the icon will never change colour because the gates can never be claimed and controlled by another Alliance, even if they're opened.

It's also worth keeping an eye on zone chat while you're in Cyrodiil because that may tell you what PvP groups in your Alliance are doing and give you an idea of whether they're likely to open the gates soon or not.

renne · July 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I've gotten the Cyrodiil skyshards solo with multiple toons, different classes. It's actually pretty easy during MYM when there's a lot of extra campaigns to look between them for ones where one faction is dominating, or if you set a campaign as your home campaign and set it to give you AvA notifications, you can easily find out when the gates have been opened while you're off doing overland things in game, which is what I did.

I would agree. A bit nerve-wracking, but I suck at PvP but have snuck through the gates on several characters.

You just have to find a time when no human players are there and ride in and keep running until you get away.

Exactly this. And when you get through the gate, I know the instinct is just to keep going forward, but don't, go directly left or right once you get through and stealth out ASAP - this means that if you're unlucky enough that a player is coming to the gate as you're going in, they're way less likely to see you.

I had that happen to me one time at the EP gate and got killed because PvE, but luckily we had the home keep so I didn't have that far to go to get back!

My other tip is more of an info thing, but for anyone worrying/wondering about this - in PvP when you stealth, providing that you're far enough away from players of the other alliance you are invisible to them.

I wish you could go from one "home area" to another without going back out though.

I usually either go to the gate or the temple and get the guards to kill me so then I can bloodport back to the wayshrine. That's generally what I do whenever I've gone somewhere for an objective (e.g. scouting missions during MYM for tickets) - if not guards, big bodies of water or rivers usually have slaughterfish. It's the quickest way back home!

Carcamongus · July 2022

Another incentive to get the Cyrodiil skyshards is that by collecting those and all the others from the base game, you can buy a skyshard furnishing from the achievement vendor. I had to wait a long time to get all gate-locked ones, but what a rush it was to at last get them all. I think the theme song from "Mission: Impossible" was playing in my head while I sneaked around. So, yeah, it can be done solo, though you do depend on what other people are doing to be able to accomplish that.

r3turn2s3nd3r · July 2022

JARTHEGREY wrote: »

What DOES need to change alliance (colour) is the Keep next to the gate (So for Gates of Chim, the nearest Keep is Kingscrest Keep - so as long as that Keep is Blue or Yellow (i.e. not the alliance that owns it) then the gates will be OPEN.

Actually 2 keeps need to be captured (doesn't have to be same alliance) to open 1 gate, 3 keeps to have both gates open simultaneously. Using your example not only do you need Kingscrest but either yellow or blue would need to have Arrius as well. Likewise to open Ghartok, you need Arrius and Farragut. Arrius is required to open either gate.

Kalithiur_Dragoni · July 2022

I collected all skyshards while running invisible as a vampire. Was actually a fun experience.

BoraBora · July 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

renne wrote: »

I've gotten the Cyrodiil skyshards solo with multiple toons, different classes. It's actually pretty easy during MYM when there's a lot of extra campaigns to look between them for ones where one faction is dominating, or if you set a campaign as your home campaign and set it to give you AvA notifications, you can easily find out when the gates have been opened while you're off doing overland things in game, which is what I did.

I would agree. A bit nerve-wracking, but I suck at PvP but have snuck through the gates on several characters.

You just have to find a time when no human players are there and ride in and keep running until you get away.

I wish you could go from one "home area" to another without going back out though.

One idea I had is why not be able to flag your char as "non PvP competing" that way you could pass gates to collect sky shards and maybe even do quests but you can't participate in any sort of PvP or conquer anything.

In regards to other comments in this topic:

I like to say thank you for the different suggestions how I could collect the skyshards. Unfortunatly some of the methods never appared to work for me, so far. Maybe I am just online at the wrong hours. IDK! LOL!
But from what I get out of your peoples suggestions, is that it still takes a certain amount of time to observe what's going on with the campaigns to know when the perfect time is to get to those sky shards. And I don't really have that time.

And the other issue I have is with those Dungeons you can't be complete because of bosses you can't kill solo.
And yes, I know you can search for party. But it happens more than once or twice that I was queued and waited for, IDK how long, without finding any party for the dungeon I liked to play. And that on evenings and weekends, when you think there should be the most player activity.
It also happened more than once or twice that after waiting a long time in such a queue, that I found a party BUT at some point someone disbanded and which leaded that others did too and so there was no party anymore. With no idea why because no one died and the group was making progress.

MasterSpatula · July 2022

Next Whitestrake's Mayhem, bounce around all the 7-day campaigns late at night when they're dead. Eventually, you will get those skyshards.

Amottica · July 2022

BoraBora wrote: »

But we also know that ESO made the move towards story content for Single players,

I understand that most of the content at launch was single-player story content. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong but I thought the entire base game except for Craglorn was in the game at launch and that the alliance-based zones were full of quests essentialy designed to be done as a solo player.

If this is correct then Zenimax has not made any move towards story content for single players.

As for Cyrodiil, I was able to get all the sky shards there going in solo. Regardless,. that is as base game design so any changes in perspective to the development of the game do not pertain there.

I will note that Zenimax has placed skill points, much more valuable than a single sky shard, behind group content. Granted, many dungeons can get done solo in story mode but that is not possible for all of them and some players find that difficult. Additionally, Zenimax locked 50 skill points behind doing PvP and that does not include the sky shards in Cyrodil. This is all by design and clearly intended.

So the point to that last paragraph is Zenimax does this for the specified purpose of encouraging experiencing varied gameplay. None of it is required as most players do not have every skill point or sky shard on every character. Heck, I expect many players who do not like PvP have avoided getting anything out of Cyrodiil or PvP and are able to play the game just fine.

BoraBora · July 2022

DinoZavr wrote: »

@BoraBora, sorry to point that out, but you are wrong.
All overland skyshards are collectible solo, at Craglorn group delves you might need a self-heal and fetch tris-stats in a quickslot.
All Cyro skyshards are collectable, you just need to select a proper campaign and wait till enemy's gates are open.
I am also a solo player.
Some "seemingly" impossible 4-man can be done. I used werewolf form vesrus last boss in Blackheart Haven, it was easy
i used Psijic Ulti to return back in time for 4 seconds in CoH2 versus cocoon and Ebony Blade.
It is doable. Of course, there are several dungeons with levers and pressure plates (like Direfrost Keep) which cannot be soloed, but these are few.

Maybe the Sky Shards are doable and I was just online at the wrong time.

But There are at least 3 bosses I can remember you (at least I couldn't) can't do solo.
One is that Undead Pirate Captain I mentioned.
Short after the fight begins it will transform you in a skeleton, no matter what you do. And at this point you are pretty much a sitting duck, if there is no one else to aid you to remove that spell.

The other one is a Deadra Monster in a Sewer Level 2 (sorry if I don't remember the Dungeons names!)
At a certain point it will hold you with a spell and there are some altairs where other players would have to interrupt that spell.
If not that char that got targeted dies. As you play solo you can't break it and your NPC companion has no idea what to do here. In other words you would get killed over and over again.
I red that there is some "mechanic" by hiding and using Pets. But other wrote that this "mechanic" doesn't work anymore.

Another Boss similar to the last I mentioned, is in one of the dungeons of the capital CIty. At a certain point it puts you in a the cage and the fight gets reseted. Which means you can't complete that dungeon solo.

I am not sure if that "Werewolf-psijic Ulti combo" works for all of them?
And even if, it still means that you would have to play the game certain way. So that "play the way you want it"-idea goes
straight out of the window.
And as you said: There are still dungeons youn can't complete, but because of levers and pressure plates.
Which still means playing in a party is rquired.
So there is still a "*** up"regarding the idea to be able to do everything solo.

At least it gave me an idea what I can try do beat some of the bosses. So thank you, for your feedback!

FlopsyPrince · July 2022

I just jumped into the red home base with my AD character on PC EU. AD had taken over most of the map. Someone ganked me after I picked up the first one, but that did me a favor since it let me respawn right near the other gate which I then nabbed.

One time I was glad to get ganked!

BoraBora · July 2022

Something else I like to mention:

I really like to say thank you to all of you and point out how adult and civilized you people reply even if diagreeing.
It's a rare thing on the internet and in forums, I think.
You guys even give possible solutions instead of trolling or bashing.

Having sad and shameful situations in mind, like how people reacted to Ron Gilbert the art style of the upcoming new Monkey Island game.
Just as a recent example what an ungly place internet forums can be.

So sorry for the little off topic. But I think credits where credits doe!

Snamyap · July 2022

BoraBora wrote: »

Another Boss similar to the last I mentioned, is in one of the dungeons of the capital CIty. At a certain point it puts you in a the cage and the fight gets reseted. Which means you can't complete that dungeon solo.

If you haven't yet work up your Legerdemain skill so you can reliably bash that lock quick. A sturdy companion should be able to survive while you get out. I can get out quick enough usually, sometimes it takes too long and it resets but it is doable.