Warden Feedback (Update 35. Weeks 1 and 2)

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Enough can be said about all of the standardised changes. I feel the same way as everyone else, but i'm really starting to get fatigued by constant hysteria, however deserved.

this post is for the developers and will be straight to the point, i don't have the mental energy this patch to keep making incredibly detailed posts.

Arctic Blast Changes:
Positives:
- This skill is now like other damage over time skills, so if maintained, it can keep up. however, other dots including winter's revenge are extremely weak and this is a little worse than them.
- while i wouldn't have selected arctic blast to be another max stat scaling heal, it's at least able to provide our burst healing needs.

Negative:

-This skill is incredibly expensive so it is insanely hard to keep solid uptimes on it without running out of resources. we need better sustain in the class and a solid increase to the damage of each tick, or, simply, to match other dots standardised duration. At this current point, that would mean an increase to 20 seconds of duration.
-we still have the delayed nature of the stun when we still need an on-demand one.

EDIT: See: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/612944/week-3-of-pts-frost-warden-perspective/p1?new=1

Advanced Species Changes
Postives

Makes it easier to kill tankier players in pvp

Negatives

Completely cripples any damage output this passive has in pve. this change makes no sense when it was already acknowledged that magicka warden struggles compared to other classes. this change was made... for what reason?

Scorch Changes
Postitives

The idea of increasing the duration at base is fine, it gives deep fissure reason to be used in pve by dps which is something we've desired for a while

Negatives

The removal of the 3 second timer feels awful for wardens who have been playing it for 5 years. we like the 3 second timer, so please limit it to intervals of 3 (6 or 9)
subterranean assault feels a bit underpowered compared to deep fissure. it perhaps could be given an additional effect unrelated to a damage increase in order to have both morphs see use in pvp or pve, this morph could even be reworked into a different skill entirely allowing different build types.

Winter's Revenge Changes
Postives:

N/A

Negatives:

Not only was the damage halved because it only ticks every 2 seconds, but the damage per tick was also reduced severely by 33%. is there any reason why such a severe nerf was implemented when, again, warden was already mentioned as being underperforming?
the cost increase does not help the class's poor sustain situation.

Feral Guardian Changes
Positives:

the change to eternal guardian seems well intentioned and i like the general idea behind it, however increasing the damage of the attack during execute by 50% really isn't that impactful because it is effectively 1 extra cast of the skill per 2 casts during execute.
wild guardian never needed guarenteed hemorraging proc. so it's good that it was brought back a bit.

Negatives:

It generally doesn't matter how interesting the effect is. whatever deals more damage will always be taken if both morphs are focused on increasing the damage. in the case between eternal and wild guardian, these changes don't do anything to change whatever morph is more effective. wild will still be taken all the time.

Dive Changes:
Positives:

removing the awful design of the stacking bleed based on off balance is nice
removal of the obnoxious range-based damage bonus is great to see especially when it's replaced with a more helpful buff like weapon/spell damage on cast.

Negatives:

Cutting dive's change kills the damage potential of the skill. sustain isn't helpful in pve situations when groups already provide it.
the off balance proc condition remains the same and is incredibly awkward
the speed of the skill still remains very slow

I also think that the change to falcon's swiftness is great as it's been suggested for a long time.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

if our warden feedback gets ignored again, i'm probably going to give this game a miss for a while and play WoW Dragonflight instead once that comes out. or any other game. i'm really losing my patience with this development team, as entitled as that sounds.

Klingenlied · July 2022

I agree on a lot you just said here. I think the overall thought process is incredibly interesting and I am happy they are brave enough for those changes. However, in detail, they are lackluster.

#1 Sustain problem stays. We got a passive that helps us sustain whenever we do heal an ally. That one should be tweaked / changed to "heal anything" and possibly even get a numerical adjustment.

#2 Magica DPS. Advanced species change can't go live it it cripples mag dps in its current form. I personally assume they intend to let it increase physical and spell penetration? I mean 2% damage is roughly equal to 1000 penetration. But you can't take away the damage from mag. In a worst case scenario, mag just looses out on 12% dps just from this oversight! That is is EXTREME.

#3 Scorch - here I think I could live with a new timing. However, burst is important. So any form of dps nerf for this skill is not ok. Overall though I am behind the change and would happily play with the magica morph now, provided he still provides major and minor breach.

# 4 Feral Guardian: I love the idea with the execute scaling. Dunno how far behind mag morph will be - if at all - but if it is, just change some more numbers.

#5 Dive: Not perfekt, but waaay better then before. I guess it is the weakest class spamable though right now.

#6 Winters Revenge: Come on, that is just a mistake? Those numbers can't be real? Its a relatively small AE. Nerfing this one so hard .. we won't be taking it without any further beneficial effects.

Whiskey_JG · July 2022

I admire your motivation to be constructive in the midst of such changes @ESO_Nightingale

One might understand the damage nerf to shalks.......but the increase in cost of that skill and winters revenge is simply devoid of logic.

The changes to dive (whilst i have to acknowledge that Screaming Cliff racer morph is a decent change) have made this skill unusable. Stamina Wardens will opt to use silver shards or other weapon skill spammables as they do wayyyy more damage.

in my opinion, class identity has been lost here.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Man I take one little break and things fall apart even more somehow.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Starting off just looking at tool tips. Arctic Blast and Winter's Revenge are doing Comparable Damage, but in a Parse, Arctic Blast Costs more than twice as much. The Crazy thing is that Winter's Revenge is currently doing less damage than Deadly Cloak. Winter's Revenge is supposed to be Warden's big Bad AoE but they just completely massacred it, reduced it's damage by 33%. A lot of the Ground AoEs had their Damage Increased:

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Now I don't play the other classes a ton, but this Nerf on top of Advanced Species switching from a Damage Buff to a Pen Buff? Warden's Damage Output feels Gutted. I mean C'mon.

Aldoss · July 2022

It's clear that they listen to some feedback because we finally got snare immunity added to Falcon's Swiftness, but it makes it really disheartening to take the time it takes to properly articulate everything that is wrong with these notes.

It's amazing to me that they clearly pit this responsibility on the players. I'm so confused as to what, if any, alpha testing goes on at ZOS headquarters before they push pts notes like this.

Oakensoul proved that they fly by the seat of their pants. Last minute changes in the final stage of a pts cycle despite MASSIVE negative feedback that ultimately went live anyway and caused the terrible meta we have now.

There's so much wrong with this patch. Seeing as they never answer any of us, it makes me question whether or not it's worth my time to write a several page long reply detailing everything...

haelene · July 2022

Jesus. Again? My poor warden is dead.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Aldoss wrote: »

It's clear that they listen to some feedback because we finally got snare immunity added to Falcon's Swiftness, but it makes it really disheartening to take the time it takes to properly articulate everything that is wrong with these notes.

It's amazing to me that they clearly pit this responsibility on the players. I'm so confused as to what, if any, alpha testing goes on at ZOS headquarters before they push pts notes like this.

Oakensoul proved that they fly by the seat of their pants. Last minute changes in the final stage of a pts cycle despite MASSIVE negative feedback that ultimately went live anyway and caused the terrible meta we have now.

There's so much wrong with this patch. Seeing as they never answer any of us, it makes me question whether or not it's worth my time to write a several page long reply detailing everything...

And that's fair, we did get our Root Immunity

MashmalloMan · July 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Starting off just looking at tool tips. Arctic Blast and Winter's Revenge are doing Comparable Damage, but in a Parse, Arctic Blast Costs more than twice as much. The Crazy thing is that Winter's Revenge is currently doing less damage than Deadly Cloak. Winter's Revenge is supposed to be Warden's big Bad AoE but they just completely massacred it, reduced it's damage by 33%. A lot of the Ground AoEs had their Damage Increased:

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Now I don't play the other classes a ton, but this Nerf on top of Advanced Species switching from a Damage Buff to a Pen Buff? Warden's Damage Output feels Gutted. I mean C'mon.

I think it's doing an injustice to throw around the buff numbers without looking at the skills with the proper context. It is a fact that Winter's Revenge was the cheapest and hardest hitting of all the Class AoE dots available, designed to be so strong in a time without such standards as a way to prop the mag warden's DPS numbers higher, so it's understandable that it was brought in line in a patch where they applied a strict ruleset to pretty much every dot in the game.

20s aoe dot = 2x damage of spammable = 3780 cost.

The auxillary effects are what decide the differences between them now, Winters Revenge has increased status effect chance (testing showed about 4x to 5x) and a snare. Very utility focussed while skills like Graveyard or Lightning Splash are primarily damage focussed via their Synergys.

So in that sense, I think this is the 1 area that I'm fine with because it effects every class equally. If a class like Warden falls behind pve dps wise now, it's all the more reason to look at other area's of their kit instead of front loading so much of it in 1 skill.

That being said, the 2s tick interval on all these aoe dots blows. It's awful. Hate it.

In regards to Deadly Cloak, the skills morph effect increases in damage done. That makes the damage difference warranted per tick. I think the duration should increase to 20s if they're going to be using standards though, I think they were conflicted because it falls into the heal and damage camps. Hots were noticably capped at 10s, not 20s.. so that is where they drew the line, this skill starts out as a heal and gets the dot as an auxillary effect.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Starting off just looking at tool tips. Arctic Blast and Winter's Revenge are doing Comparable Damage, but in a Parse, Arctic Blast Costs more than twice as much. The Crazy thing is that Winter's Revenge is currently doing less damage than Deadly Cloak. Winter's Revenge is supposed to be Warden's big Bad AoE but they just completely massacred it, reduced it's damage by 33%. A lot of the Ground AoEs had their Damage Increased:

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Now I don't play the other classes a ton, but this Nerf on top of Advanced Species switching from a Damage Buff to a Pen Buff? Warden's Damage Output feels Gutted. I mean C'mon.

I think it's doing an injustice to throw around the buff numbers without looking at the skills with the proper context. It is a fact that Winter's Revenge was the cheapest and hardest hitting of all the Class AoE dots available, designed to be so strong in a time without such standards as a way to prop the mag warden's DPS numbers higher, so it's understandable that it was brought in line in a patch where they applied a strict ruleset to pretty much every dot in the game.

20s aoe dot = 2x damage of spammable = 3780 cost.

The auxillary effects are what decide the differences between them now, Winters Revenge has increased status effect chance (testing showed about 4x to 5x) and a snare. Very utility focussed while skills like Graveyard or Lightning Splash are primarily damage focussed via their Synergys.

So in that sense, I think this is the 1 area that I'm fine with because it effects every class equally. If a class like Warden falls behind pve dps wise now, it's all the more reason to look at other area's of their kit instead of front loading so much of it in 1 skill.

That being said, the 2s tick interval on all these aoe dots blows. It's awful. Hate it.

In regards to Deadly Cloak, the skills morph effect increases in damage done. That makes the damage difference warranted per tick. I think the duration should increase to 20s if they're going to be using standards though, I think they were conflicted because it falls into the heal and damage camps. Hots were noticably capped at 10s, not 20s.. so that is where they drew the line, this skill starts out as a heal and gets the dot as an auxillary effect.

I think a large part of the issue of why Winter's Revenge hit so hard was due to the Piercing Cold Passive increasing Frost & Magic Damage by 10%. But your point is definitely valid and I can't speak to the other classes in where those buffs and nerfs make them land. But I can say the 33% Nerf on top of the Loss of Advanced Species Damage Buff just shredded Warden's DPS and I think that the other portions of Warden's kit do not make up the difference, from my point of view anyways.

YandereGirlfriend · July 2022

I'm here to agree with basically all that was written but to especially call out the unnecessary tinkering with the previously 3-second countdown on Shalks.

Any MagDen main has the 3-second countdown ingrained in them as part of their core muscle memory for playing the class. It is WAY too late in the development of the class to go about messing with this. Nobody asked for this and nobody that I know wants this. PLEASE revert the countdown changes or the already vanishingly small number of MagDen mains will have an even greater reason to give up on the class.

unassigned · July 2022

Shalks and bird are core to warden - they are the classes identity as a DPS. Shalks should not be touched just as blastbones was not touched. Birds, although the bleed was a bit annoying to me it also formed part of the core class skills - you could use a decent spammable, or use birds with the off-balance rotation (a bit more skilled). The difference is 120k vs. 130k which is enough to make it worthwhile but not enough to make it needed.

How many people really main magden/stamden? I've been playing stamden since I started playing and trying to show people that it can be used in vet trials well, but now there is literally no benefits to do so.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

unassigned wrote: »

Shalks and bird are core to warden - they are the classes identity as a DPS. Shalks should not be touched just as blastbones was not touched. Birds, although the bleed was a bit annoying to me it also formed part of the core class skills - you could use a decent spammable, or use birds with the off-balance rotation (a bit more skilled). The difference is 120k vs. 130k which is enough to make it worthwhile but not enough to make it needed.

How many people really main magden/stamden? I've been playing stamden since I started playing and trying to show people that it can be used in vet trials well, but now there is literally no benefits to do so.

I've mained Warden since release. In fact, here's an amusing screencap of me DMing Gina directly at a time when I was literally the only Stamden with vSS HM clears for basically an entire patch cycle. Sent her the Stamden log page to show it.

Having said that, I think birds is a core skill but needs a complete overhaul. Stam version should be a melee spammable. A claw/rending effect where bleed makes sense. Make the mag birds something else, whatever, don't care. To me, bear and shalks are the "core" foundation skills for Warden, and both just got trampled on. Couple that with the monstrous nerf to the passive that kept us competitive, and this entire patch is just a huge yikes.

Tannus15 · July 2022

winters revenge and twisting path got nerfed down to comparable damage with other class ground based AOE's
for some reason they are ignoring the fact that other classes don't use their AOE's because the damage just isn't worth while.

the Advanced Species Change is the dumbest thing i've ever seen. some extra pen vs % raw damage. This is not even close to comparable. They literally just ripped 6% to 10% depending on your skills away from the warden.

the scorch nerf is really just salt in the wound. Why? To what end? Yes, shalks are probably doing too much damage, but if that's the case then warden should get something buffed to shift the dps from shalks to something else. Instead they just nerfed all the high damage skills as well as their overall damage.

I'm really having a hard time working out who got screwed more this patch, sorc or warden, but both classes are in the dumpster.

Pevey · July 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

winters revenge and twisting path got nerfed down to comparable damage with other class ground based AOE's
for some reason they are ignoring the fact that other classes don't use their AOE's because the damage just isn't worth while.

the Advanced Species Change is the dumbest thing i've ever seen. some extra pen vs % raw damage. This is not even close to comparable. They literally just ripped 6% to 10% depending on your skills away from the warden.

the scorch nerf is really just salt in the wound. Why? To what end? Yes, shalks are probably doing too much damage, but if that's the case then warden should get something buffed to shift the dps from shalks to something else. Instead they just nerfed all the high damage skills as well as their overall damage.

I'm really having a hard time working out who got screwed more this patch, sorc or warden, but both classes are in the dumpster.

All of this, exactly. The change to shalks is like taking whip away from DK or stealth away from NB or blastbones away from necro. The timing of shalks defines the warden class.

Janni · July 2022

Someone told me about the upcoming changes to Warden and it really scared me since that is my favorite class and I play it more than anything. After quickly running home to test it out on the pts I can concur that they are just dreadful to me!

@ESO_Nightingale I really agree with a lot of your points, especially the one about the timing of Sub-Assault/Deep Fissure! Please please don't change this skill ZoS! The timing is just too weird and it no longer works with the rest of the abilities that I have spent ages perfecting and honing! Also the loss of damage is pretty significant too since that the main source of our damage and having a 3 second delay (or more in this case) really makes it noticeable when you are fighting really tanky players!

Buuuuut I disagree about Cutting Dive though. I use this skill all the time in PvP. I'm entirely melee so this lets me attack others that are running away. The delay is really good because you can line it up with deep fissure and still have to time to land that heavy attack and spin-to-win or a dawnbreaker. I know that all sounds like a lot but trust me when I say that I need every ounce of damage i can squeeze out of it just to hope to get anyone. The stacking bleed it really important to me to since it's THE ONLY answer i have to alot of those perma-block tanks that just jump around and burn siege all the time.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

Janni wrote: »

Buuuuut I disagree about Cutting Dive though. I use this skill all the time in PvP. I'm entirely melee so this lets me attack others that are running away. The delay is really good because you can line it up with deep fissure and still have to time to land that heavy attack and spin-to-win or a dawnbreaker. I know that all sounds like a lot but trust me when I say that I need every ounce of damage i can squeeze out of it just to hope to get anyone. The stacking bleed it really important to me to since it's THE ONLY answer i have to alot of those perma-block tanks that just jump around and burn siege all the time.

You realize they removed the stacking bleed, right?

merpins · July 2022

Keep instinctively hitting scorch 2 seconds before it's ready to recast in the PTS. It's pretty awkward.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Janni wrote: »

Someone told me about the upcoming changes to Warden and it really scared me since that is my favorite class and I play it more than anything. After quickly running home to test it out on the pts I can concur that they are just dreadful to me!

@ESO_Nightingale I really agree with a lot of your points, especially the one about the timing of Sub-Assault/Deep Fissure! Please please don't change this skill ZoS! The timing is just too weird and it no longer works with the rest of the abilities that I have spent ages perfecting and honing! Also the loss of damage is pretty significant too since that the main source of our damage and having a 3 second delay (or more in this case) really makes it noticeable when you are fighting really tanky players!

Buuuuut I disagree about Cutting Dive though. I use this skill all the time in PvP. I'm entirely melee so this lets me attack others that are running away. The delay is really good because you can line it up with deep fissure and still have to time to land that heavy attack and spin-to-win or a dawnbreaker. I know that all sounds like a lot but trust me when I say that I need every ounce of damage i can squeeze out of it just to hope to get anyone. The stacking bleed it really important to me to since it's THE ONLY answer i have to alot of those perma-block tanks that just jump around and burn siege all the time.

My issue with Birds will and always will be the Special thing being tied to both Off-balance and range. I'm sick of hoops to jump through. I feel like it's bad design, you can make something mechanically interesting without making it annoying to use.

In PvP 90% of time people are on top of you, having an ability that has it's special thing locked behind when people are running away is just a bit annoying.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

winters revenge and twisting path got nerfed down to comparable damage with other class ground based AOE's
for some reason they are ignoring the fact that other classes don't use their AOE's because the damage just isn't worth while.

the Advanced Species Change is the dumbest thing i've ever seen. some extra pen vs % raw damage. This is not even close to comparable. They literally just ripped 6% to 10% depending on your skills away from the warden.

the scorch nerf is really just salt in the wound. Why? To what end? Yes, shalks are probably doing too much damage, but if that's the case then warden should get something buffed to shift the dps from shalks to something else. Instead they just nerfed all the high damage skills as well as their overall damage.

I'm really having a hard time working out who got screwed more this patch, sorc or warden, but both classes are in the dumpster.

Huge agree

Janni · July 2022

@Skjaldbjorn Holy! No I didn't! I haven't been keeping up to date as much since it's summer where I live. T_T

@ESO_Nightingale Oh yeah, I can totally agree about the mag morph of that skill. Like, it's probably pretty good in pve or something but yeah, all these abilities and sets with when you apply this or attacking adds a stack of that get really old to me after a while and I just can't keep it all in my head. Like I just want a skill that is just a straight forward hardhitting attack that I can rely on over and over.... and I want my 3 second timer for my bugs!

MindOfTheSwarm · July 2022

I hate this standardisation of classes. Making all ground dots deal the same damage and have the same duration is dull. Basically, every class is now the same aside from visual differences. Other games understand this is a bad idea, I don’t know why ZoS is doing this.

Also, I play a pure Frost Warden always have done. This means I don’t use Fissure or Birds. I am DoT focused as DoT builds in most games is what I prefer to play. With this patch DoT builds are gone from the game. And so am I.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm here to agree with basically all that was written but to especially call out the unnecessary tinkering with the previously 3-second countdown on Shalks.

Any MagDen main has the 3-second countdown ingrained in them as part of their core muscle memory for playing the class. It is WAY too late in the development of the class to go about messing with this. Nobody asked for this and nobody that I know wants this. PLEASE revert the countdown changes or the already vanishingly small number of MagDen mains will have an even greater reason to give up on the class.

even if they change that we'd need some substantial help to our other skills. by gutting winter's revenge, advanced species and bear they've cut most of our damage away. it's not like arctic blast kinda being a dps skill makes up for it, because it's not stronger than any other dot, is extremely expensive and doesn't even match the duration of them.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Starting off just looking at tool tips. Arctic Blast and Winter's Revenge are doing Comparable Damage, but in a Parse, Arctic Blast Costs more than twice as much. The Crazy thing is that Winter's Revenge is currently doing less damage than Deadly Cloak. Winter's Revenge is supposed to be Warden's big Bad AoE but they just completely massacred it, reduced it's damage by 33%. A lot of the Ground AoEs had their Damage Increased:

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Now I don't play the other classes a ton, but this Nerf on top of Advanced Species switching from a Damage Buff to a Pen Buff? Warden's Damage Output feels Gutted. I mean C'mon.

Lets cut out the pillars that hold warden dps up! I'm sure that'll do wonders to help new players!

stevenyaub16_ESO · July 2022

From what i've tested only parsing wise. Winter's revenge is overnerfed, it used to be one of the standout aoes, now it does less damage than mystic orb.

The Shalks delay wont be noticable in trials (longer fights) but in any other application it is terrible. Just testing it in overland feels useless with such a long delay, I imagine in dungeons it will feel this way too.

I'd much prefer another nerf to damage on the stamina one and see it proc 3x at 3 secs each. The magicka can do 2x at 4 seconds each.

Cutting dive by removing the offbalance bleed thing is a step in the right direction but it is very weak right now dealing less damage than every other non-class spammable. The hemorrhaging bonus is negligible adding just a 10% increase (4400dps instead of 4000dps without at the same crit rate). In it's current state it is not going to be used.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

From what i've tested only parsing wise. Winter's revenge is overnerfed, it used to be one of the standout aoes, now it does less damage than mystic orb.

The Shalks delay wont be noticable in trials (longer fights) but in any other application it is terrible. Just testing it in overland feels useless with such a long delay, I imagine in dungeons it will feel this way too.

I'd much prefer another nerf to damage on the stamina one and see it proc 3x at 3 secs each. The magicka can do 2x at 4 seconds each.

Cutting dive by removing the offbalance bleed thing is a step in the right direction but it is very weak right now dealing less damage than every other non-class spammable. The hemorrhaging bonus is negligible adding just a 10% increase (4400dps instead of 4000dps without at the same crit rate). In it's current state it is not going to be used.

I agree. I mean they could even rework sub assault to something entirely different to create different playstyles.

Faded · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

if our warden feedback gets ignored again, i'm probably going to give this game a miss for a while and play WoW Dragonflight instead once that comes out. or any other game. i'm really losing my patience with this development team, as entitled as that sounds.

Nobody could blame you, man.

Tannus15 wrote: »

I'm really having a hard time working out who got screwed more this patch, sorc or warden, but both classes are in the dumpster.

Warden, by a lot.

Whiskey_JG · July 2022

Yesterday I did a lot of testing on the PTS.

Both morphs of Birds consistently did lower dps than other spammables such as rapid strikes or silver shards. I was seeing around 6k difference just by changing to a non-class spammable, which is a bit sad as it erodes the class identity. Best I got so far was 95k, I can probably push it to 102k with some changes.

Unfortunately a fully fledged frost setup performed a lot worse, 82k.

My main worry is not the DPS numbers honestly, dedicated players will find ways to squeeze out a bit more. My main worry is how boring the rotation has become. Apart from keeping up shalks, the only thing you're doing is just spammables. At one point I counted 14 Frost reaches in a row, very repetitive.

Other classes are a bit worse, on DK I'm spamming whip around 110 times in a parse

Whiskey_JG · July 2022

The timing of sub assault is weird but not impossible to overcome, you have to adjust your rotation a bit.
I tweaked the settings of Action duration reminder so timer is more accurate and it helped. However 8% dmg nerf is kinda a lot for a stample skill.

I am considering switching to Deep Fissure, just to spice up my rotation a bit and introduce variety.

flizomica · July 2022

Please give Deep Fissure back its 3 second timer. The rotation that normally had a very satisfying and unique rhythm to it now feels incredibly clunky and weird. I'm finding that I have to spend way more time staring at my skill bar because the DoT and Deep Fissure timers don't line up in a way that feels intuitive.