Warden Feedback (Update 35. Weeks 1 and 2)

Necrotech_Master

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Starting off just looking at tool tips. Arctic Blast and Winter's Revenge are doing Comparable Damage, but in a Parse, Arctic Blast Costs more than twice as much. The Crazy thing is that Winter's Revenge is currently doing less damage than Deadly Cloak. Winter's Revenge is supposed to be Warden's big Bad AoE but they just completely massacred it, reduced it's damage by 33%. A lot of the Ground AoEs had their Damage Increased:

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Now I don't play the other classes a ton, but this Nerf on top of Advanced Species switching from a Damage Buff to a Pen Buff? Warden's Damage Output feels Gutted. I mean C'mon.

@Mr_Stach i was doing some number comparisons related to this

the number you have on dagger cloak im assuming is for a dps spec

on live this number is about the same as dagger cloak for my higher dmg tank, so dagger cloak really didnt change all too much

but i never really used it before because it was so weak and limited in range

but if these numbers for other dots stay as is, its going to make more sense to just use blackrose duel wield with dagger cloak (higher dot numbers, dot follows you, and blackrose proc makes it so when it deals dmg it gives you +6% dmg done and -6% dmg taken, in addition to the evasion buff from dagger cloak)

this is something im already considering with my templar depending on how the numbers for maelstrom 2h and stampede look

Mr_Stach

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Starting off just looking at tool tips. Arctic Blast and Winter's Revenge are doing Comparable Damage, but in a Parse, Arctic Blast Costs more than twice as much. The Crazy thing is that Winter's Revenge is currently doing less damage than Deadly Cloak. Winter's Revenge is supposed to be Warden's big Bad AoE but they just completely massacred it, reduced it's damage by 33%. A lot of the Ground AoEs had their Damage Increased:

Cinder Storm: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 7%.
Boneyard: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Lightning Splash: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 21%.
Spear Shards: Increased the damage per tick by approximately 33%.

WInter's Revenge: Decreased the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 33%.
Twisting Path: Reduced the damage per tick of this morph by approximately 29%.

Now I don't play the other classes a ton, but this Nerf on top of Advanced Species switching from a Damage Buff to a Pen Buff? Warden's Damage Output feels Gutted. I mean C'mon.

@Mr_Stach i was doing some number comparisons related to this

the number you have on dagger cloak im assuming is for a dps spec

on live this number is about the same as dagger cloak for my higher dmg tank, so dagger cloak really didnt change all too much

but i never really used it before because it was so weak and limited in range

but if these numbers for other dots stay as is, its going to make more sense to just use blackrose duel wield with dagger cloak (higher dot numbers, dot follows you, and blackrose proc makes it so when it deals dmg it gives you +6% dmg done and -6% dmg taken, in addition to the evasion buff from dagger cloak)

this is something im already considering with my templar depending on how the numbers for maelstrom 2h and stampede look

Yeah go look at my other post I put up, I posted all the AoE charts from Skinny Cheeks Video comparing DoTs Dagger Cloak is insane

prof_doom

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Yeah go look at my other post I put up, I posted all the AoE charts from Skinny Cheeks Video comparing DoTs Dagger Cloak is insane

Shh, they might hear you. You know they're more likely to nerf deadly cloak than increase the damage on the other skills.
Though even if they did, if they're all equally bad, might as well run BRP and get the 5% bonuses and the evasion.

Matteo11

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

if our warden feedback gets ignored again, i'm probably going to give this game a miss for a while and play WoW Dragonflight instead once that comes out. or any other game. i'm really losing my patience with this development team, as entitled as that sounds.

I don't think you sound entitled at all.

I think its valid to be passionate and outspoken when such drastic, destructive changes are made to something you've obviously spent alot of time (and probably alot of money) investing in.

The Warden changes are crazy bad, and an antithesis of fun. I just returned to ESO to lvl a Warden as I show my friend the game, and these downgrades you cite will put me off the class too.

Mr_Stach

So got some interesting stuff here.
This is the Table of current DoTs for Warden courtesy of Skinnycheeks:

Here's some a snip of some Data he was able to Send me from U33:


The difference in DoT damage between U33 and U34 is negligible but it does highlight just how much Damage we lost and it's actually insane.

TheTuSiK

I rarely visit the forum but I was really curious what's going on after release of U35. I'll be speaking purely from pve pov. I really enjoyed warden in u34. Good aoe dmg, nice skills and buffs/debuffs they provide. I don't really get some changes. Beat ulti change is ok, Wild Guardian is still better but if you go with Eternal you don't lose that much. What I don't get is change of the passive from dmg done to penetration. Sorc has 2% weapon and spell dmg for each sorc skill, even fighters guild gives you 3% and warden's 2% was too much? Dive is weird. U34 stam morph is way better, in u35 the mag morph takes over. Keep the bleed that it could proc just remove the stacks and change it to duration for example since we're going there anyway. And Scroch just feels weird. It changed from a skill like Blastbones to a skill like Haunting Curse. For me, so pve pov to be clear, Scorch was actually a better working Blastbones, always hitting on every 3 GCD while BB differs on a distance and other stuff. Also sending BB meant a fight start. Question to other pve players, mostly raiders. How many times there was a countdown, necro sent bb on 2 and someone yells "wait, don't pull". No issue like that with Scorch, just look away. My solution would be an even split. Deep Fissure hits 2 times over 10s: after 4s and 6s. Make it 5 and 5. And for Sub Assault go from 3 and 5 to 4 and 4. The other thing Warden is known for is Winter's Revenge. To be exact, it's known to be the strongest class aoe skill. Well, not anymore. The other changes don't bother me that much, I'm a filthy damage dealer, but those changes kinda kill Warden as a competetive dps class in U35. It'll be again a healer class, maybe a few tanks will play it too but probably mostly in BRP. I'd love to keep playing Warden in U35 without a feeling that I have to beat the class first so I can clear the content.

ESO_Nightingale

TheTuSiK wrote: »

I rarely visit the forum but I was really curious what's going on after release of U35. I'll be speaking purely from pve pov. I really enjoyed warden in u34. Good aoe dmg, nice skills and buffs/debuffs they provide. I don't really get some changes. Beat ulti change is ok, Wild Guardian is still better but if you go with Eternal you don't lose that much. What I don't get is change of the passive from dmg done to penetration. Sorc has 2% weapon and spell dmg for each sorc skill, even fighters guild gives you 3% and warden's 2% was too much? Dive is weird. U34 stam morph is way better, in u35 the mag morph takes over. Keep the bleed that it could proc just remove the stacks and change it to duration for example since we're going there anyway. And Scroch just feels weird. It changed from a skill like Blastbones to a skill like Haunting Curse. For me, so pve pov to be clear, Scorch was actually a better working Blastbones, always hitting on every 3 GCD while BB differs on a distance and other stuff. Also sending BB meant a fight start. Question to other pve players, mostly raiders. How many times there was a countdown, necro sent bb on 2 and someone yells "wait, don't pull". No issue like that with Scorch, just look away. My solution would be an even split. Deep Fissure hits 2 times over 10s: after 4s and 6s. Make it 5 and 5. And for Sub Assault go from 3 and 5 to 4 and 4. The other thing Warden is known for is Winter's Revenge. To be exact, it's known to be the strongest class aoe skill. Well, not anymore. The other changes don't bother me that much, I'm a filthy damage dealer, but those changes kinda kill Warden as a competetive dps class in U35. It'll be again a healer class, maybe a few tanks will play it too but probably mostly in BRP. I'd love to keep playing Warden in U35 without a feeling that I have to beat the class first so I can clear the content.

I don't see any reason to play dps warden going forward in pve.

Lughlongarm

I don't do parses at all so I'm just wondering, Wardens using now cliff racer as a spammable for the very high up time of 300 WD/SD? Also, is double pressing fetcher to always get he extra 60% damage buff for 20 sec is part of a rotation?

Mr_Stach

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I don't do parses at all so I'm just wondering, Wardens using now cliff racer as a spammable for the very high up time of 300 WD/SD? Also, is double pressing fetcher to always get he extra 60% damage buff for 20 sec is part of a rotation?

So some things to know about cliff racer, you get 100 wd/sd normally then if the target is Off-balance it jumps to 200 wd/sd. Off-balance only lasts for 7 seconds on a target then Off-balance goes on cd for 17 seconds. So you only get that boosted wd/sd for a small window.

Double pressing fetcher would give you the 60% increased damage better uptime but it would shred your sustain.

Lughlongarm

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I don't do parses at all so I'm just wondering, Wardens using now cliff racer as a spammable for the very high up time of 300 WD/SD? Also, is double pressing fetcher to always get he extra 60% damage buff for 20 sec is part of a rotation?

So some things to know about cliff racer, you get 100 wd/sd normally then if the target is Off-balance it jumps to 200 wd/sd. Off-balance only lasts for 7 seconds on a target then Off-balance goes on cd for 17 seconds. So you only get that boosted wd/sd for a small window.

Double pressing fetcher would give you the 60% increased damage better uptime but it would shred your sustain.

I guess you have not tested the skill on PTS because this is not how the skill works.

-Any damage you do with cliff racer will proc a 10 sec buff of 100 WD/SD regardless to distance or the off-balance status. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer.

-If the target is off-balance, any damage with cliff racer will proc a second 10 sec buff for 200 WD/SD. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer while the target is off-balance.

-If you hit a target from more than 7 distance away while the target can be off-balanced, both buffs will proc at the same time(you don't need to hit the target twice).

So theoretically, if Off-balance only lasts for 7 with 17 CD, you can maintain both buffs on a considerable uptime if you hit the target with cliff racer on the last second of the off-balance debuff.

Regarding fetcher, why should it shred you sustain? There is no cost difference compared to live and the duration is double. If you double tap this skill every 20 sec, it is exactly the same cost as pressing the skill once every 10 sec.

Mr_Stach

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I don't do parses at all so I'm just wondering, Wardens using now cliff racer as a spammable for the very high up time of 300 WD/SD? Also, is double pressing fetcher to always get he extra 60% damage buff for 20 sec is part of a rotation?

So some things to know about cliff racer, you get 100 wd/sd normally then if the target is Off-balance it jumps to 200 wd/sd. Off-balance only lasts for 7 seconds on a target then Off-balance goes on cd for 17 seconds. So you only get that boosted wd/sd for a small window.

Double pressing fetcher would give you the 60% increased damage better uptime but it would shred your sustain.

I guess you have not tested the skill on PTS because this is not how the skill works.

-Any damage you do with cliff racer will proc a 10 sec buff of 100 WD/SD regardless to distance or the off-balance status. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer.

-If the target is off-balance, any damage with cliff racer will proc a second 10 sec buff for 200 WD/SD. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer while the target is off-balance.

-If you hit a target from more than 7 distance away while the target can be off-balanced, both buffs will proc at the same time(you don't need to hit the target twice).

So theoretically, if Off-balance only lasts for 7 with 17 CD, you can maintain both buffs on 100% uptime if you hit the target with cliff racer on thķe last second of the off-balance debuff.

Regarding fetcher, why should it shred you sustain? There is no cost difference compared to live and the duration is double. If you double tap this skill every 20 sec, it is exactly the same cost as pressing the skill once every 10 sec.

Yeah I've tested it. Potentially 100% uptime but. In the swing of things that's going to not probably happen.

I explained it poorly, but yeah I just really dislike cliff racer and the whole off-balance thing. Cliff racer could do my taxes and I would still probably not use it.

As far as fetcher is concerned, double casting every 20 seconds vs once every 10 seconds on live comes down to damage, it's the same cost sure.
If you have no problem sustaining it, go for it. Longer fights though I think it's just better to let it do it's thing.

Lughlongarm

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I don't do parses at all so I'm just wondering, Wardens using now cliff racer as a spammable for the very high up time of 300 WD/SD? Also, is double pressing fetcher to always get he extra 60% damage buff for 20 sec is part of a rotation?

So some things to know about cliff racer, you get 100 wd/sd normally then if the target is Off-balance it jumps to 200 wd/sd. Off-balance only lasts for 7 seconds on a target then Off-balance goes on cd for 17 seconds. So you only get that boosted wd/sd for a small window.

Double pressing fetcher would give you the 60% increased damage better uptime but it would shred your sustain.

I guess you have not tested the skill on PTS because this is not how the skill works.

-Any damage you do with cliff racer will proc a 10 sec buff of 100 WD/SD regardless to distance or the off-balance status. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer.

-If the target is off-balance, any damage with cliff racer will proc a second 10 sec buff for 200 WD/SD. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer while the target is off-balance.

-If you hit a target from more than 7 distance away while the target can be off-balanced, both buffs will proc at the same time(you don't need to hit the target twice).

So theoretically, if Off-balance only lasts for 7 with 17 CD, you can maintain both buffs on 100% uptime if you hit the target with cliff racer on thķe last second of the off-balance debuff.

Regarding fetcher, why should it shred you sustain? There is no cost difference compared to live and the duration is double. If you double tap this skill every 20 sec, it is exactly the same cost as pressing the skill once every 10 sec.

Yeah I've tested it. Potentially 100% uptime but. In the swing of things that's going to not probably happen.

I explained it poorly, but yeah I just really dislike cliff racer and the whole off-balance thing. Cliff racer could do my taxes and I would still probably not use it.

As far as fetcher is concerned, double casting every 20 seconds vs once every 10 seconds on live comes down to damage, it's the same cost sure.
If you have no problem sustaining it, go for it. Longer fights though I think it's just better to let it do it's thing.

From what I understand the problem right now is the celling potential for DPS, not sustain. With the upcoming patch sustain is probably going to be a non issue for the upcoming patch. Sure, regardless you will do more DPS on live compared to PTS, this is by design. I just wonder if ppl tried to adjust rotation and use double fetcher to maximize DPS and does it even worth it?

kringled_1

There was some back and forth in my one discord and where it ended up is that it's not worth while overall (always double casting fetcher),when you consider the loss of a GCD for a spammable, and that a single cast rotation will still get the enhanced damage every other rotation without the spammable cost. It gets ahead in the first cycle but falls behind after.

Mr_Stach

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I don't do parses at all so I'm just wondering, Wardens using now cliff racer as a spammable for the very high up time of 300 WD/SD? Also, is double pressing fetcher to always get he extra 60% damage buff for 20 sec is part of a rotation?

So some things to know about cliff racer, you get 100 wd/sd normally then if the target is Off-balance it jumps to 200 wd/sd. Off-balance only lasts for 7 seconds on a target then Off-balance goes on cd for 17 seconds. So you only get that boosted wd/sd for a small window.

Double pressing fetcher would give you the 60% increased damage better uptime but it would shred your sustain.

I guess you have not tested the skill on PTS because this is not how the skill works.

-Any damage you do with cliff racer will proc a 10 sec buff of 100 WD/SD regardless to distance or the off-balance status. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer.

-If the target is off-balance, any damage with cliff racer will proc a second 10 sec buff for 200 WD/SD. The buff will renew itself to 10 sec any time you do damage with cliff facer while the target is off-balance.

-If you hit a target from more than 7 distance away while the target can be off-balanced, both buffs will proc at the same time(you don't need to hit the target twice).

So theoretically, if Off-balance only lasts for 7 with 17 CD, you can maintain both buffs on 100% uptime if you hit the target with cliff racer on thķe last second of the off-balance debuff.

Regarding fetcher, why should it shred you sustain? There is no cost difference compared to live and the duration is double. If you double tap this skill every 20 sec, it is exactly the same cost as pressing the skill once every 10 sec.

Yeah I've tested it. Potentially 100% uptime but. In the swing of things that's going to not probably happen.

I explained it poorly, but yeah I just really dislike cliff racer and the whole off-balance thing. Cliff racer could do my taxes and I would still probably not use it.

As far as fetcher is concerned, double casting every 20 seconds vs once every 10 seconds on live comes down to damage, it's the same cost sure.
If you have no problem sustaining it, go for it. Longer fights though I think it's just better to let it do it's thing.

From what I understand the problem right now is the celling potential for DPS, not sustain. With the upcoming patch sustain is probably going to be a non issue for the upcoming patch. Sure, regardless you will do more DPS on live compared to PTS, this is by design. I just wonder if ppl tried to adjust rotation and use double fetcher to maximize DPS and does it even worth it?

Right now the more dps will be relying on less DoTs maybe cycle Birds and Crushing weapon. I think we'll see what they have to say next week and depending on that will determine if it's even worth testing.

Zodiarkslayer

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

Brahma_Br wrote: »

I can't understand the reason for the shalks nerf, totally unfair. Also, there's no reason to nerf Nature Grasp. Skill that has been nerfed in the past and is now practically useless

It really is mind boggling. Magden is objectively one of the worst classes in pvp currently and this change hobbles us even more. Those of us who have stuck with our magdens have mostly succeeded because we know the class inside and out. Now we don't even have that.

tbh i'm so done i just want to see how bad it gets. i want to be able to come back at some point, but i've needed a long break for a while. might remain active on forums occasionally after this patch goes through though.

I am going to miss you and your level headed input. 😥 ESO needs community leaders, that have more influence on the direction, that the game flows. I always felt you know more than anyone else about the Warden class. 👀 Including devs. 😉

ESO_Nightingale

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

Brahma_Br wrote: »

I can't understand the reason for the shalks nerf, totally unfair. Also, there's no reason to nerf Nature Grasp. Skill that has been nerfed in the past and is now practically useless

It really is mind boggling. Magden is objectively one of the worst classes in pvp currently and this change hobbles us even more. Those of us who have stuck with our magdens have mostly succeeded because we know the class inside and out. Now we don't even have that.

tbh i'm so done i just want to see how bad it gets. i want to be able to come back at some point, but i've needed a long break for a while. might remain active on forums occasionally after this patch goes through though.

I am going to miss you and your level headed input. 😥 ESO needs community leaders, that have more influence on the direction, that the game flows. I always felt you know more than anyone else about the Warden class. 👀 Including devs. 😉

I'm too invested in the game and the forums at this point to fully leave. But i really don't have any interest in trials if all of this garbage goes forward with the DoT changes. Regardless of if this is entirely reverted or not, i still need the break from the game and I've been enjoying World of Warcraft lately. Very much looking forward to Dragonflight too because of the talent tree changes. I can make some fantastic frost death knight builds next patch.

ESO_Nightingale

Lets see how much the situation further deteriorates next incremental.

MacRibs

Week 3 is some days away and its going to be it, usually most of week 3 changes are whats going to the live server.
The feedback from the community has been clear, the word trust has been thrown around a lot this PTS cycle, now they either show they hear/read the input people give or they don't, not saying all feedback given is amazing but there's very good and thorough work done, the least they can do is adjust some of changes they intend to implement otherwise its best they don't ever go around asking players to waste their time testing on the PTS submitting tickets and posting data on the forum.

Want us to test bugs? No problem, but don't ask us to give feedback on combat changes if you wont even even acknowledge that it has been given.

Also it would really be appreciated and a communication improvement that when they do change anything because of player feedback they actually mention in the notes of said change that it was due to player feedback.

Aldoss

Klingenlied wrote: »

Tendoshii wrote: »

Just for clarification, this patch hurts Wardens in PvP just as much as PvE.

Can you elaborate? Did you test it out? Why do you think so?

I've already posted numerous times, but to answer your question, yes I have tested on the pts and did not like what they did to us.

Deep Fissure was critting for 6k against a target with only 25k armor and with me having 20k pen, 4500 dmg, and 115% crit dmg. That's pretty pathetic considering we have to wait 4seconds before it fires and then 6 seconds after. For reference, Sagetoad was hitting me for 6k SAs nearly every second and sometimes more when he was able to get Grave Inevitability up.

This change is the most egregious to me because it transcends into a territory that should never be possible for a game. They didn't just tweak dmg, they also changed the timing. They increased the delay by 33%. Imagine if Backlash suddenly fired every 8 seconds instead of 6. Imagine if Grim Focus suddenly required 7 light attacks before the proc was met.

The Scorch change is multiplicative in its nerfs. They nerfed Advanced Species, then they nerfed the raw damage, then they nerfed the timing. It doesn't deserve that AT ALL. It's a challenging skill to use, misses rather frequently, especially if you play at mid-range, can be mitigated 20% via Major Evasion, and costs more than Molten Whip, Backlash, Grim Focus, Blast Bones, and Haunting Curse... that's literally the most expensive delayed burst skill in the game. Why does it deserve this?

The second cast is nonsense with it being 6 seconds later. It turns warden into a random dice roller which has no place in PvP situations where you specifically work to line up a burst window and dish out a combo.

Cliff Racer is still not worth the slot because getting a competent opponent off balance is extremely difficult. I dueled SageToad probably 4-5 times and only managed off-balance 2-3 times across all of them.

The Arctic Blast stun is better, but still misses the mark. The proc being 2 seconds after the cast means it's still very likely that I miss the stun by accidentally moving away, the target misses the stun by moving away, or the target misses the stun because they were instinctively blocking my attack anyway.

The Falcon's Swiftness buff might be the only change I appreciate this patch.

I'm disappointed to say the least. I've already found another game and am enjoying learning it and playing it. I still log on ESO, but the direction the devs appear to be taking this game doesn't leave me with any joy about playing through the journey. I really hope they do something amazing on Monday, but I'm not holding my breath.

ESO_Nightingale

Aldoss wrote: »

Klingenlied wrote: »

Tendoshii wrote: »

Just for clarification, this patch hurts Wardens in PvP just as much as PvE.

Can you elaborate? Did you test it out? Why do you think so?

I've already posted numerous times, but to answer your question, yes I have tested on the pts and did not like what they did to us.

Deep Fissure was critting for 6k against a target with only 25k armor and with me having 20k pen, 4500 dmg, and 115% crit dmg. That's pretty pathetic considering we have to wait 4seconds before it fires and then 6 seconds after. For reference, Sagetoad was hitting me for 6k SAs nearly every second and sometimes more when he was able to get Grave Inevitability up.

This change is the most egregious to me because it transcends into a territory that should never be possible for a game. They didn't just tweak dmg, they also changed the timing. They increased the delay by 33%. Imagine if Backlash suddenly fired every 8 seconds instead of 6. Imagine if Grim Focus suddenly required 7 light attacks before the proc was met.

The Scorch change is multiplicative in its nerfs. They nerfed Advanced Species, then they nerfed the raw damage, then they nerfed the timing. It doesn't deserve that AT ALL. It's a challenging skill to use, misses rather frequently, especially if you play at mid-range, can be mitigated 20% via Major Evasion, and costs more than Molten Whip, Backlash, Grim Focus, Blast Bones, and Haunting Curse... that's literally the most expensive delayed burst skill in the game. Why does it deserve this?

The second cast is nonsense with it being 6 seconds later. It turns warden into a random dice roller which has no place in PvP situations where you specifically work to line up a burst window and dish out a combo.

Cliff Racer is still not worth the slot because getting a competent opponent off balance is extremely difficult. I dueled SageToad probably 4-5 times and only managed off-balance 2-3 times across all of them.

The Arctic Blast stun is better, but still misses the mark. The proc being 2 seconds after the cast means it's still very likely that I miss the stun by accidentally moving away, the target misses the stun by moving away, or the target misses the stun because they were instinctively blocking my attack anyway.

The Falcon's Swiftness buff might be the only change I appreciate this patch.

I'm disappointed to say the least. I've already found another game and am enjoying learning it and playing it. I still log on ESO, but the direction the devs appear to be taking this game doesn't leave me with any joy about playing through the journey. I really hope they do something amazing on Monday, but I'm not holding my breath.

agreed. better to not hold your breath.

pikHz

From Gilliam:

Note that we are already planning some additional changes for the Sorcerer and Warden, based on your feedback, that will go on the PTS before Update 35 launches.

Just to level-set: They're looking at Warden but it's looking like Monday will not have all the changes they're planning to implement.

ESO_Nightingale

pikHz wrote: »

From Gilliam:

Note that we are already planning some additional changes for the Sorcerer and Warden, based on your feedback, that will go on the PTS before Update 35 launches.

Just to level-set: They're looking at Warden but it's looking like Monday will not have all the changes they're planning to implement.

The problem is that they made awful changes in the first place this patch. I will admit that some of the warden ones seem to have come from a place of wanting to fulfill player needs and wants. But then there are changes such as advanced species or winter's revenge that no-one asked for.

If they want to fufil warden player wants that i have seen over many years they might want to do these things:

Passives:
Revert Advanced species
Change the icy aura passive entirely
Grant a bleed and/or hemorrhaging bonus

Arctic Blast:
They really need to consider arctic blast as one of our damage skills and allow it's damage to be worth the cast

the stun from arctic blast should be shifted to an on demand class skill.

Scorch and Morphs:
They need to revert timing changes to deep fissure and sub assault so that they fall within the 3 second timing window, but also allow both morphs to become viable in pve.

Deep Fissure should have it's damage type changed to frost damage

Dive:
rework the proc condition for off balance to make it work better with our kit and not be so awkward.

Make the projectile hit it's target faster. Especially in melee range.

Northern Storm:
Buff this morph so that it could be used in pve as an option over bear. Maybe it could passively make chilled execute while slotted, or give major brittle instead of protection for example.

Bear:
We want a morph for bear that is able to be seperate from a pet. And thus is single-barrable so we don't have to always use dawnbreaker for burst.

General Frost Dps wants:
More frost damage skills in general. Especially in warden.
Some form of execute. Chilled damage execute is a way to do it that naturally works well to incentivise more frost damage skill stacking while also allowing us to do our job of applying brittle.

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Arctic Blast:
They really need to consider arctic blast as one of our damage skills and allow it's damage to be worth the cast

the stun from arctic blast should be shifted to an on demand class skill.

I still think that Zos just needs to Commit to the something. they are still pulling this skill in 3 opposite directions. I think having a Burst Heal tied to something that you want running as Long as possible for the damage is problematic.

I still think that having a strong self heal in the Green Balance tree is the missing piece, then removing the Heal Completely from Arctic Blast wouldn't be so bad. Also then the self healing kit could proc all those green Balance passives as well.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Arctic Blast:
They really need to consider arctic blast as one of our damage skills and allow it's damage to be worth the cast

the stun from arctic blast should be shifted to an on demand class skill.

I still think that Zos just needs to Commit to the something. they are still pulling this skill in 3 opposite directions. I think having a Burst Heal tied to something that you want running as Long as possible for the damage is problematic.

I still think that having a strong self heal in the Green Balance tree is the missing piece, then removing the Heal Completely from Arctic Blast wouldn't be so bad. Also then the self healing kit could proc all those green Balance passives as well.

I agree. The skill really doesn't need to heal or stun. At least it shouldn't be a delayed stun. Shrooms really just should heal the caster more.

MacRibs

Artic Blast is a tragic story of an ability that's confused for years, trying to be 3 different things at the same time and when it seems to finally decide what it wants to be the entire game changes to 2 sec DoTs.

Since they insist on standardization so much then Artic Blast should work similarly to Deep Breath and Sap Essence 2 two skills that heal and also do damage and have some other sort of utility attach to them..

It should keep the instant heal, deal instant damage maybe after a 1 second delay after cast and keep the stun. This is a very expensive skill, as it stands you could not multi cast it for the healing without losing the offensive part of the skill.

If you were in a tight situation where you would need cast it 2 consecutive times to get some instant healing it would only deal the first DoT tick each time, a laughable amount of damage, for a whooping 8100 magicka cost.

As it stands the stun is more reliable then it was, the heal is good but not amazingly good and the damage has been stretched out over a longer period making it harder to hit moving targets this together with a high cost makes for a underwhelming ability.

ESO_Nightingale

MacRibs wrote: »

Artic Blast is a tragic story of an ability that's confused for years, trying to be 3 different things at the same time and when it seems to finally decide what it wants to be the entire game changes to 2 sec DoTs.

Since they insist on standardization so much then Artic Blast should work similarly to Deep Breath and Sap Essence 2 two skills that heal and also do damage and have some other sort of utility attach to them..

It should keep the instant heal, deal instant damage maybe after a 1 second delay after cast and keep the stun. This is a very expensive skill, as it stands you could not multi cast it for the healing without losing the offensive part of the skill.

If you were in a tight situation where you would need cast it 2 consecutive times to get some instant healing it would only deal the first DoT tick each time, a laughable amount of damage, for a whooping 8100 magicka cost.

As it stands the stun is more reliable then it was, the heal is good but not amazingly good and the damage has been stretched out over a longer period making it harder to hit moving targets this together with a high cost makes for a underwhelming ability.

i don't agree it needs an entire rework to move away from being a DoT. being a DoT is fine, but they need to move the stun to something else in the kit. one thing they could do to fix the entire stun problem is to change swarm to have growing swarm's effect at base, and change growing's effect to tick a lot faster, or harder for less duration, and to stun on cast. and make fetcher infection stamina costing and bleed damage. then growing can be made magic and magicka costing.

Freelancer_ESO

Polar Wind seems to possibly be somewhat over-performing.

Here's an extreme example of it with hp rather stacked:

Aldoss

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Polar Wind seems to possibly be somewhat over-performing.

Here's an extreme example of it with hp rather stacked:

The cost of that is insane though. You could probably do 3 and be left with nothing and likely a regen less than 1000.

Freelancer_ESO

Aldoss wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Polar Wind seems to possibly be somewhat over-performing.

Here's an extreme example of it with hp rather stacked:

The cost of that is insane though. You could probably do 3 and be left with nothing and likely a regen less than 1000.

The cost is comparable to the Blessing of Protection series of skills and the Fungal Growth series of skills while also offering more burst healing than both in many circumstances.

It does hit less targets, has a smaller range, and it doesn't share their secondary effects but, it also has one of the best hots in U35.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

pikHz wrote: »

From Gilliam:

Note that we are already planning some additional changes for the Sorcerer and Warden, based on your feedback, that will go on the PTS before Update 35 launches.

Just to level-set: They're looking at Warden but it's looking like Monday will not have all the changes they're planning to implement.

The problem is that they made awful changes in the first place this patch. I will admit that some of the warden ones seem to have come from a place of wanting to fulfill player needs and wants. But then there are changes such as advanced species or winter's revenge that no-one asked for.

If they want to fufil warden player wants that i have seen over many years they might want to do these things:

Passives:
Revert Advanced species
Change the icy aura passive entirely
Grant a bleed and/or hemorrhaging bonus

Arctic Blast:
They really need to consider arctic blast as one of our damage skills and allow it's damage to be worth the cast

the stun from arctic blast should be shifted to an on demand class skill.

Scorch and Morphs:
They need to revert timing changes to deep fissure and sub assault so that they fall within the 3 second timing window, but also allow both morphs to become viable in pve.

Deep Fissure should have it's damage type changed to frost damage

Dive:
rework the proc condition for off balance to make it work better with our kit and not be so awkward.

Make the projectile hit it's target faster. Especially in melee range.

Northern Storm:
Buff this morph so that it could be used in pve as an option over bear. Maybe it could passively make chilled execute while slotted, or give major brittle instead of protection for example.

Bear:
We want a morph for bear that is able to be seperate from a pet. And thus is single-barrable so we don't have to always use dawnbreaker for burst.

General Frost Dps wants:
More frost damage skills in general. Especially in warden.
Some form of execute. Chilled damage execute is a way to do it that naturally works well to incentivise more frost damage skill stacking while also allowing us to do our job of applying brittle.

Like always i love your feedback

I agree on everything but i really hope we can get a new bear ultimate for pvp, i like to use DB but sometimes i hope i could use some warden ultimate in pvp because bear isn't a real option and nother storm isn't good enough to compete with all the cross healing.

With dive I don't have any problem if they make the skill faster and change the 7m to proc off balance to when the skill hits you proc off balance and change the effect to work without off balance, zos need to increase a little bit the dmg of the skill because right now doesn't have enough damage.

I also really like the changes to frost dps and I think the change to chilled acting like a execution is fine because frost damage isn't dealing high damage without a specific build and that specific build isn't really viable for pvp, also that way mag warden get a nice buff.

Passives and the artic blast: i just agree, those are on point.

And finally the change to the timers in the scorch skill just sucks, I don't have any problem with the skill getting 2 procs but at 3 and 6 seconds.