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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »Why not hold fire on the AH demands until we see how the Kiosks pan out ?
ZoE seem to be addressing many concerns in their own way.
I've been trying to use the current economic system for almost 4 weeks now. To me, that is time enough to decide it's just not for me.
Now if they were to make some significant changes I would be willing to give it a fresh perspective. But as things are now, I really don't see how these Guild Stores will ever work efficiently unless some very dramatic alterations are made.Edited by Jeremy on May 1, 2014 4:58PM3 -
Sandhya✭✭✭So far I am loving the fact there is no AH with inflated pricing that has its effect on the actual prices people ask for items.
The AH introduces capitalist-styled trading instead of just trading an item because 'you can't use it'. There will also be players that will try to monopolize certain rare goods - just take a look at GW2's TP for a good example of that.
I didn't start playing MMO's to be worrying about the 'going rate' of any item at any time - if I want to do that, I'll start trading stock, not playing a game. To think one 'would need this' is utter nonsense, especially because apart from a few top-tier rarities (ie rare motifs and legendary resins/tannins etc.) there is honestly NOTHING in the game that would warrant the need for an AH. If you really want to trade you set it up yourself through trading guilds and this a great way of doing it, because it does not directly affect the entire playerbase. If you feel trading is important, you can make it as elaborate as you could possibly want through guilds - if you don't, you can stay away from it. Perfect.
Last but not least, the absence of an AH really does add to the feeling of Tamriel as a 'divided' and large world, a setting that fits the game far better than one where some magical World Trading Center is available that also magically gathers and moves goods around and allows us to trade from all across the world. It does not fit the world, the game mechanics, the game economy, and is certainly not a requirement to be successful in the game - at best it is a way to dump useless items or destroy the game economy by prices that never stop suffering from inflation.Edited by Sandhya on May 1, 2014 4:59PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So far I am loving the fact there is no AH with inflated pricing that has its effect on the actual prices people ask for items.
An auction house would lower prices. It wouldn't inflate them.
If anything causes prices to be higher, it is an economy like this one - where the market selection is so poor and difficult to access people will pay almost anything out of desperation when they actually find what they are looking for.
So if you want more reasonable prices, I would ask you to reconsider your position and get on the Auction House bandwagon
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Morrawind✭✭✭The strength of good mmos that survive for many many years is the freedom people have to do what they like in that game. Teso tries to force people into a direction the devs think its the only good way to play a game. Teso will not survive.
give us the tools to enjoy the game. Give us an auction house!2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO AUCTION HOUSE PLEASE!!!!!
I think the trading works really good. People have to trade a real way, from person to person, or use the trade guilds....though the trade-guilds can use some tweaking.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"2 -
Khandi✭✭✭Does anyone know how the Kiosks will work?
Because the most basic idea of it in my mind is that if I cannot add to it (as opposed to purchasing items) it will not solve my issues of not having a basic AH.One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde1 -
lecarcajou_ESO✭✭✭✭This and the inventory issues finally tipped the scales for me. I unsubscribed this morning. I love playing this game but I've gotten so frustrated with the time sinks that I don't even want to log on anymore.
I'll keep an eye on it and check for changes in the next few months and hopefully be back. I still have high hopes for this game.
I have to say, once the "new game smell" has utterly dissipated, I might do the same. Some of the design decisions in this title (Potions? Dedicated Healers? Seriously?) make me feel like I'm back playing WoW, others are clearly well intended but don't work so well for me personally. ESO's tons of fun, and extremely nice visually—but it is not a better mousetrap.
Edited by lecarcajou_ESO on May 1, 2014 5:04PM"Morally Decentralized."3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO AUCTION HOUSE PLEASE!!!!!
I think the trading works really good. People have to trade a real way, from person to person, or use the trade guilds....though the trade-guilds can use some tweaking.
Except that it doesn't work really good. Spamming chat channels in some hope someone will buy or sell what you are posting is usually a waste of time. Not to mention it's a nuisance to have to do and look at.
And Guild Stores work essentially the exact same way an Auction House would. You browse a listing, then buy or sell. The only difference being the Guild Stores suck by comparison in terms of market size and selection. So I don't understand why you could be ok with a Guild Stores but not with Auction Houses. They both have the same mechanics.Edited by Jeremy on May 1, 2014 5:07PM8 -
trinta✭✭✭a setting that fits the game far better than one where some magical World Trading Center is available that also magically gathers and moves goods around and allows us to trade from all across the world. It does not fit the world,
And what about crafting from the bank? It makes even less sense that you can, at some remote crafting station, access materials that you have deposited in the bank. But you aren't complaining about that.
If an AH had been in the game from the start, we wouldn't be hearing this dreck repeated over and over.Every time someone swears, it gets replaced with three asterisks. There's only one three-letter swear word that I know of. I read that in the place of every set of three asterisks. It makes for some amusing sentences.4 -
Sandhya✭✭✭
Wrong. The only prices that will 'deflate' are those of the most common items, which will drop to or below their actual value. Another reason for inflation on the useful items is the fact that the playerbase will gradually become more wealthy - more gold in our pockets means we are willing to use more of it on buying stuff.
This means the AH is virtually worthless for selling common stuff like ingots (it's only interesting for the buyers), and is going to be too expensive for the items that are hard to find. With this, the only players that are really 'accomodated' by an AH are the laziest ones. The players that won't go out and farm their mats.
Simple logic - put the rare items up for availability to a larger market, and the demand for these items goes up while supply remains the same.
Go ahead and log in to any MMO with an AH and check out pricing on the rare stuff for proof. GW2 is a prime example: Treasure boxes are up for 1 copper (worthless filler, won't ever get sold), Legendary mats and weapons are up for prices you can only pay when mass-converting real money to ingame currency - and the price of things like Orichalcum ingots has been rising since the first day of launch up till now.Edited by Sandhya on May 1, 2014 5:31PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Right ^^
A larger and more competitive market would bring prices down. It would not increase them.
Edited by Jeremy on May 1, 2014 5:18PM3 -
Sandhya✭✭✭
Right ^^
A larger and more competitive market would bring prices down. It would not increase them.
Except the market is not competitive. Is this really so hard to grasp? Did you really read my entire post there? Did you actually go out and check pricing elsewhere in AH's? Because I did, and what I've stated earlier is all based on actual practice. But to each his own, right.
Free markets only work well when supply and demand are balanced, and in MMO's they are NEVER balanced by the very nature of an MMO's loot tables. Everyone wants to have the rare stuff, and only few people find it. You tell me by what logic this principle would ever cause prices to decrease.Edited by Sandhya on May 1, 2014 5:25PM1 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭i honestly do not see why people are having such a hard time without an AH system. kiosks sounds...promising so long as they don't litter the streets. But finding and selling mats has not been an issue for me at all. It is my main source of income seeing how i don't craft but instead gather. I am not trolling or anything i am just stating that i do not have the issue mentioned in the thread nor do i personally understand the issue people are having. perhaps because i am use to it from older games such as EQIGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer1 -
methjester✭✭✭
Right ^^
A larger and more competitive market would bring prices down. It would not increase them.
First off I agree with you 100% that it will lower prices. To play devils advocate,even if it raise costs by say10-20% and I had to spend two hours NOT spamming zone chat it would be totally worth this imagined inflation people are scared of.
I want to go to an Auction guy, post my stuff, leave, get more stuff, leave... not spend hour after hour looking for a guy with potency 8 runes. This is all exciting and new, it won't be months from now when you just want to buy and sell.
Also, they nerfed the multi guild store search. Does. Not. Work. Anymore.4 -
Orizuru✭✭✭Do people really want to compete with 250,000+ other players trying to sell the exact same item?1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Right ^^
A larger and more competitive market would bring prices down. It would not increase them.
Except the market is not competitive. Is this really so hard to grasp? Did you really read my entire post there? Did you actually go out and check pricing elsewhere in AH's? Because I did, and what I've stated earlier is all based on actual practice. But to each his own, right.
But it would be competitive. The more people buying/selling in a market the more competitive it becomes.
That's why implementing a public auction house would bring prices down. It would dramatically increase the size of the market and the amount of people buying/selling with each other. This creates a healthy competition and benefits everyone - because prices come down for the individual consumer and the higher demand increases the potential profit for sellers. It's a win win.
I did read your post. But I didn't agree with it. And it doesn't mirror my own experiences with auction houses in video games.Edited by Jeremy on May 1, 2014 5:36PM5 -
Sandhya✭✭✭a setting that fits the game far better than one where some magical World Trading Center is available that also magically gathers and moves goods around and allows us to trade from all across the world. It does not fit the world,
And what about crafting from the bank? It makes even less sense that you can, at some remote crafting station, access materials that you have deposited in the bank. But you aren't complaining about that.
If an AH had been in the game from the start, we wouldn't be hearing this dreck repeated over and over.
With the small note added that an AH is a game system, and having your banked mats available is simply a Quality of Life design choice, not a game system. Two entirely different things.1 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Where people are blind is the fact that this will help gold sellers. heck i want to bring one market that was ruined due to gold sellers..FFXI remember that 32k for a lvl 5 weapon. yea..gold sellers will eventually win the pricing war and players will be forced to buy from them. The AH is a great way to help them out, and i personally do not want the AH. Kiosks perhaps but not a AH.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer3 -
Sandhya✭✭✭
But it would be competitive. The more people buying/selling in a market the more competitive it becomes.
A larger and more competitive market would bring prices down. It would not increase them.
Simply repeating your statement three times isn't going to make it true, but did you actually go out and check the AH in other MMO's yet to see how right you really are?
Please do that and then come back here to defend that statement you made again.Edited by Sandhya on May 1, 2014 5:38PM1 -
Orizuru✭✭✭I would rather they implement some kind of system that allows guilds to negotiate Trade Pacts or form Trade Alliances that link the Guild Stores together in some fashion.
A full blown AH that is server-wide or even faction-wide would simply have too many players competing to sell the same items. This would result in 200+ pages of Dwarven Oil to scroll through to find the best price when you are a buyer, and Lord only knows how many times you would have to relist and lower you price to try and sell anything with the tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of players who will be undercutting you 45 seconds after you list your auctions.
I like the concept of a pocket economy that the Guild Stores create much better, but the limit of only 500 members on a guild does present a small problem. Allowing guild to link their stores and limiting how many of these links a single guild can have would open the market up quite a bit, but also keep it small enough to prevent the size of the market itself from becoming too large to manage.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where people are blind is the fact that this will help gold sellers. heck i want to bring one market that was ruined due to gold sellers..FFXI remember that 32k for a lvl 5 weapon. yea..gold sellers will eventually win the pricing war and players will be forced to buy from them. The AH is a great way to help them out, and i personally do not want the AH. Kiosks perhaps but not a AH.
I played Final Fantasy 11 for many years. Gold Sellers had absolutely nothing to do with why a level 5 weapon would cost you 32k.
The reason that level 5 weapon cost so much is because no one was level 5 anymore - so there was no demand for it. So anyone who bothered to put one up for sale wanted a lot of money for it. I seriously doubt Gold Sellers were farming level 5 weapons and jacking up the price. That would be a terrible way to make gil.
Now Gold Sellers did have a huge impact on the economy of Final Fantasy 11. But it had nothing to do with the auction house. It had to do with the fact many of the items in large demand dropped from rare monster spawns. So the Gold Sellers dominated the spawn points and monopolized the market for these items. And that would have been the case rather an auction house was present or not.
This is a common mistake a lot of people make. And they tend to blame Auction Houses for problems it had nothing to do with.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But it would be competitive. The more people buying/selling in a market the more competitive it becomes.
A larger and more competitive market would bring prices down. It would not increase them.
Simply repeating your statement three times isn't going to make it true, but did you actually go out and check the AH in other MMO's yet to see how right you really are?
Please do that and then come back here to defend that statement you made again.
As I said, I've played many games with an auction house. What you describe doesn't happen.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »Do people really want to compete with 250,000+ other players trying to sell the exact same item?
I sure do. Because that's 250,000+ more potential buyers.
As a quick example: you make more money selling something for 5 gold to 100 people than you do selling something for 100 gold to one person.
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jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Actually they did farm lower lvl gear to sell via vender or to sell to the few new players who would join. they would see the high price of the weapon and feel that they had no choice but to by the gold for it. i played FFXI from launch until shortly after their banning spree. I got to see first hand how banning countless accounts effected the market in a good way. AH makes it easy for gold sellers to make money, more money they make more bots they send out. It was the same on EQ2 and even SWTOR hell even FFXIV is bad with it.Where people are blind is the fact that this will help gold sellers. heck i want to bring one market that was ruined due to gold sellers..FFXI remember that 32k for a lvl 5 weapon. yea..gold sellers will eventually win the pricing war and players will be forced to buy from them. The AH is a great way to help them out, and i personally do not want the AH. Kiosks perhaps but not a AH.
I played Final Fantasy 11 for many years. Gold Sellers had absolutely nothing to do with why a level 5 weapon would cost you 32k.
The reason that level 5 weapon cost so much is because no one was level 5 anymore - so there was no demand for it. So anyone who bothered to put one up for sale wanted a lot of money for it. I seriously doubt Gold Sellers were farming level 5 weapons and jacking up the price. That would be a terrible way to make gil.
Now Gold Sellers did have a huge impact on the economy of Final Fantasy 11. But it had nothing to do with the auction house. It had to do with the fact many of the items in large demand dropped from rare monster spawns. So the Gold Sellers dominated the spawn points and monopolized the market for these items. And that would have been the case rather an auction house was present or not.
This is a common mistake a lot of people make. And they tend to blame Auction Houses for problems it had nothing to do with.
IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer2 -
Orizuru✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »Do people really want to compete with 250,000+ other players trying to sell the exact same item?
I sure do. Because that's 250,000+ more potential buyers.
As a quick example: you make more money selling something for 5 gold to 100 people than you do selling something for 100 gold to one person.
I'm not sure you understand how supply and demand works. 250,000+ people selling the same item as you are not potential buyers. They already had the item, didn't want it, and are trying to sell it. That does absolutely nothing to increase or even impact the demand people have for the item. It only increase the supply and drives the price down because everyone who lists theirs within seconds of you listing yours, will list at a lower price to ensure the people demanding the item buy theirs before yours. The end result is buyers win and sellers lose. That isn't a healthy economy. Supply will outstripe demand to the point where basic goods are completely worthless and barely sell for more than what you could get from an npc vendor.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually they did farm lower lvl gear to sell via vender or to sell to the few new players who would join. they would see the high price of the weapon and feel that they had no choice but to by the gold for it. i played FFXI from launch until shortly after their banning spree. I got to see first hand how banning countless accounts effected the market in a good way. AH makes it easy for gold sellers to make money, more money they make more bots they send out. It was the same on EQ2 and even SWTOR hell even FFXIV is bad with it.Where people are blind is the fact that this will help gold sellers. heck i want to bring one market that was ruined due to gold sellers..FFXI remember that 32k for a lvl 5 weapon. yea..gold sellers will eventually win the pricing war and players will be forced to buy from them. The AH is a great way to help them out, and i personally do not want the AH. Kiosks perhaps but not a AH.
I played Final Fantasy 11 for many years. Gold Sellers had absolutely nothing to do with why a level 5 weapon would cost you 32k.
The reason that level 5 weapon cost so much is because no one was level 5 anymore - so there was no demand for it. So anyone who bothered to put one up for sale wanted a lot of money for it. I seriously doubt Gold Sellers were farming level 5 weapons and jacking up the price. That would be a terrible way to make gil.
Now Gold Sellers did have a huge impact on the economy of Final Fantasy 11. But it had nothing to do with the auction house. It had to do with the fact many of the items in large demand dropped from rare monster spawns. So the Gold Sellers dominated the spawn points and monopolized the market for these items. And that would have been the case rather an auction house was present or not.
This is a common mistake a lot of people make. And they tend to blame Auction Houses for problems it had nothing to do with.
When I first started playing the game lower level gear was very reasonable to buy off the auction house and gold sellers were everywhere camping notorious monsters.
It wasn't until the game began to age and far less people were leveling that you saw lower level gear on the auction become scarce and expensive. It was simple supply and demand at work. I seriously doubt it had anything to do with the gold sellers.Edited by Jeremy on May 1, 2014 6:19PM2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭a setting that fits the game far better than one where some magical World Trading Center is available that also magically gathers and moves goods around and allows us to trade from all across the world. It does not fit the world,
And what about crafting from the bank? It makes even less sense that you can, at some remote crafting station, access materials that you have deposited in the bank. But you aren't complaining about that.
Owned.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »NaciremaDiputs wrote: »Do people really want to compete with 250,000+ other players trying to sell the exact same item?
I sure do. Because that's 250,000+ more potential buyers.
As a quick example: you make more money selling something for 5 gold to 100 people than you do selling something for 100 gold to one person.
I'm not sure you understand how supply and demand works. 250,000+ people selling the same item as you are not potential buyers.
You are missing my point.
When you increase the amount of people in the market than means there are more potential customers. It doesn't just increase the amount of suppliers.
That's why you can make more money in a larger market even though there is more competition.Edited by Jeremy on May 1, 2014 6:08PM3 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Wrong. The only prices that will 'deflate' are those of the most common items, which will drop to or below their actual value. Another reason for inflation on the useful items is the fact that the playerbase will gradually become more wealthy - more gold in our pockets means we are willing to use more of it on buying stuff.
This means the AH is virtually worthless for selling common stuff like ingots (it's only interesting for the buyers), and is going to be too expensive for the items that are hard to find. With this, the only players that are really 'accomodated' by an AH are the laziest ones. The players that won't go out and farm their mats.
Simple logic - put the rare items up for availability to a larger market, and the demand for these items goes up while supply remains the same.
Go ahead and log in to any MMO with an AH and check out pricing on the rare stuff for proof. GW2 is a prime example: Treasure boxes are up for 1 copper (worthless filler, won't ever get sold), Legendary mats and weapons are up for prices you can only pay when mass-converting real money to ingame currency - and the price of things like Orichalcum ingots has been rising since the first day of launch up till now.
That's how supply and demand works. I see you are one of those that wants to continue overcharging for common items.
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This discussion has been closed.