Auction house is a must!

kasain

It is to late for them to add an AH. Honestly. And furthermore they can't add a bazar trading system as once your afk twenty minutes your logged out. Building an AH into the system this late in the game would take months and a huge over hall. I am no developer, but I remember ffxiv tried the no AH thing for 1.0. The reviews and game went so bad it had to go to FTP and they fired the CEo for that title.

When building an AH you have to put the coding in, items and so on, and put them all over. It seems like a mass overhall. When FFXIV did add theres it was added like a white board. No building, or nothing and it took them six months to implement that. Our game can't even have a basic search command without a third party mod for a guild store. So I have little hope they can program it. Let alone in time needed.

Bazar would work if players didn't get force kicked out. I really have no idea what they can do to make selling things worth while.

KariTR

Evanis wrote: »

Caduryn wrote: »

No AH pls, 4 Tradeguilds = 2000 Players to trade, well enough.

2000 actively trading members is not the reality. How many of us currently belong to guilds that have hundreds of members on the roster, but only 10%-20% are actually considered active? Plus, the 25% listing fee is cost prohibitive for anything other than premium items. The no AH concept was interesting and I thought I would give it a chance, but simply put, it is not working for a majority of players.

The store doesn't actually cost you 25% to list an item for sale. Not at any time.

In order to prohibit the use of the store as a second bank, there is an immediate listing fee of 15%. This listing fee is returned when an item is sold (and presumably if it doesn't sell when the 30 days is up, though I cannot confirm that yet).

When an item is sold and only when it sells, the 'house' takes a 10% commission fee. That 10% is all you have to pay to use the store to sell. So please stop with the 25% hyperbole.

BTW, IF there were ever an AH, I would expect to see at least the same fees implemented - if not more, given the convenience of gaining a wider market - so using store costs to argue why an AH should be installed in game makes no sense.

I sell items just fine on the guild stores. If people understood costs and markets better they would too. An AH isn't going to change the underlying problem people are making, it will just make more of it happen.

Makkir

The lack of Auction Houses keeps prices on rare items fairly opportunistic. You can pick up Epic X for 800gold one day, and then 3k the next day. Without a global auction house for price comparison, you don't have people being stupid and constantly relisting items to undercut the other guy.
Really, AH's suck in an MMO economy.
I have been playing MMO's since EverQuest and every single one with an AH has been just stupid people looking to make a quick buck by undercutting

Jeremy

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.

Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.

The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."

I never said you needed rarer materials to level up your crafting. So you are challenging with me over something I never wrote.

Let me post it again what I actually wrote for you:

if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.

In other words, most people don't even bother crafting green or blue items for themselves while they are leveling up. They do this because they have to rely almost solely on their own efforts in this regard. The economy being in such a state of utter crap they can't reliably buy the materials they need to help them out.

This encourages people to hoard all of their materials and not fully-utilize their crafting until they reach level 50.

Hopefully that explains better what I was saying

The game economy works fine without buying/selling anything to other characters .

Just read what you are saying here and then ask yourself this: how is an economy working fine if no buying/selling with other people is happening?

Scavenging everything yourself is not an example of an economy working fine.

So I don't understand what your point is other than to say you can get by on this game without having to trade with others. And while that is true, it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your point seems to be we need an AH because the economy doesn't work. My point is that we don't because it does. The system isn't broken and you want it fixed. Here's why it isn't broken:

Establishing what the economy consists of:
You can buy and sell from vendors. That's part of the economy. When mobs drop loot, they are part of the economy. When NPC's give you loot as rewards, that's part of the economy. When you craft something to sell, that is part of the economy. When you buy bag/bank space for mass amounts of gold, that is part of the economy.

I've never seen an AH do anything but drive prices up and up and up. .

Yes that is essentially my point. The economy on this game doesn't work so that's why we need a public market.

And when I refer to the economy I am talking about the buying and selling between players. Not buying bag bag/bank space or getting rewards from quests.

A larger more competitive market would drive prices downward, not up and up. Just use your common sense and ask yourself why it is everyone tries to find a Guild Store nearer to max capacity? The reason for this is generally the larger the market the better. More supply. Greater demand.

The only way prices could go up and up and up like you fear is if an organized group seized control of how an item is obtained to avoid competition in the market place. And that's a concern not really valid to this game, since there are so many different ways to obtain items in demand.

In other words: a group of bots are not going to be able to control the production of Dwarf Oil to jack up prices. But just for the sake of argument: even if such a thing was possible - this could be done in the Guild Stores as well. So I don't really see how this is a concern unique to an Auction House anyway.

And you guys and gals who are against a public auction house need to have a meeting or something to figure out which it is. Because I keep hearing opposite arguments about this.

One day they are bad because they cause prices to drop to nothing. Then the next day they are bad because they cause prices to go up and up. Counter-arguments make a lot more sense when they don't contradict itself.

Jeremy

Makkir wrote: »

The lack of Auction Houses keeps prices on rare items fairly opportunistic. You can pick up Epic X for 800gold one day, and then 3k the next day. Without a global auction house for price comparison, you don't have people being stupid and constantly relisting items to undercut the other guy.
Really, AH's suck in an MMO economy.
I have been playing MMO's since EverQuest and every single one with an AH has been just stupid people looking to make a quick buck by undercutting

So your argument is basically public markets suck in MMOs because it establishes market based pricing and people can feel confident when they buy something they aren't being ripped off.

I think in your attempt to say Auction Houses suck you have actually done the opposite, and established one of its virtues.

But I would agree with you the way the economy is set up on this game now definitely favors opportunistic trade practices. It's call price gouging - and taking advantage of a poor market or a player's desperation/ignorance to increase profits.

Where we differ is you see this as a good thing. Well I don't. And I have and expect to see more of all kinds of spam on the chat channels of people asking how much so and so is worth. It's making me sick just thinking about it. Because people shouldn't have to ask in chat to find out how much something is worth. They should be able to look at the competition and come to their own conclusions.

LIQUID741

I guess I am in the wrong guild banks..it's not interaction. It's chat spam. The interface for the store is a dumpster fire. Not sure how it made it to live since we are living in the MMO era of 2014.

Have to have a add-on for a search function??? That dev. should be demoted, 3 days off, or put on toilet duty for a month...ridiculous. I would vote for a AH or something similar. I liked the idea at first about the guild store, but sadly IMO it's fail.

A trade channel would be nice, but doesnt solve the problem with Guild stores currently. I would have just more spam in my chat window. Fix the core issue before implementing other tools..just my thoughts.

Seroczynski

I personally have no problem using the four remaining guild slots for trade guilds. An AH seems to be unnecessary.

Morthur

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Alurria

Why is a AH a must? I seem to be selling the items I list in my guilds. Its these statements that 'it must be done or this game will die' that bother me. Just because it is done that way in other MMO's. The a few pages back someone dismissed my idea for a bazar without explanation. Other than to say no force kick. Well the point being is having the player present and not getting rich while they are off to work or school.

Have you ever been to a farmers market? Most of the time the person who farms is present to sell their wares. Seriously, a bazar could work with phasing, it holds you accountable, it brings people together and if you think to set up and let run auto well hey you should be subject to theft.

Something for the thieves guild to strive for...'there are other ways besides a AH, where yes there are groups who control prices. We all know it. Just like there are people controlling the price of a vamp bite or werewolf bite. Lets be honest here about the problems a global AH has. It's too convenient.

nerrollus

Laura wrote: »

I think no auction house is fine it has REALLY improved relations with other top guild with mine. We have a pretty cool trade consortium going that I haven't seen since EQ. the community is fantastic.

That said I have NO IDEA why there isn't a zone trade channel. that should most definitely be added.

I turn zone chat off anyway because all I see are people arguing about silly things but a trade channel would be a big help

I honestly thought having no auction houses was a terrible idea, but I'm actually enjoying it. Harkens back to the old EQ days when people had to actually socialize and get out to sell their wares.

Alurria

nerrollus wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I think no auction house is fine it has REALLY improved relations with other top guild with mine. We have a pretty cool trade consortium going that I haven't seen since EQ. the community is fantastic.

That said I have NO IDEA why there isn't a zone trade channel. that should most definitely be added.

I turn zone chat off anyway because all I see are people arguing about silly things but a trade channel would be a big help

I honestly thought having no auction houses was a terrible idea, but I'm actually enjoying it. Harkens back to the old EQ days when people had to actually socialize and get out to sell their wares.

Remember the tunnel....? How fun was that? Or GSIII where you stood in line to get a lock picked on a chest by a thief. Good times! Text scrolling by on your screen.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Why is a AH a must? I seem to be selling the items I list in my guilds. Its these statements that 'it must be done or this game will die' that bother me. Just because it is done that way in other MMO's. The a few pages back someone dismissed my idea for a bazar without explanation. Other than to say no force kick. Well the point being is having the player present and not getting rich while they are off to work or school.

Have you ever been to a farmers market? Most of the time the person who farms is present to sell their wares. Seriously, a bazar could work with phasing, it holds you accountable, it brings people together and if you think to set up and let run auto well hey you should be subject to theft.

Something for the thieves guild to strive for...'there are other ways besides a AH, where yes there are groups who control prices. We all know it. Just like there are people controlling the price of a vamp bite or werewolf bite. Lets be honest here about the problems a global AH has. It's too convenient.

It's a must if you want to create a vibrant economy between players. No one is saying the game must have an auction house to simply function. So I think you are misunderstanding what is being said.

Other games have tried the bazar idea. It doesn't work well and becomes tedious. And convenience is very important when it comes to a player-generated economy.

If you make the tools too cumbersome or give the player too many hoops to jump through - they will just say forget it and get by without it. Which is what a lot of people are doing on this game currently.

Jeremy

nerrollus wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I think no auction house is fine it has REALLY improved relations with other top guild with mine. We have a pretty cool trade consortium going that I haven't seen since EQ. the community is fantastic.

That said I have NO IDEA why there isn't a zone trade channel. that should most definitely be added.

I turn zone chat off anyway because all I see are people arguing about silly things but a trade channel would be a big help

I honestly thought having no auction houses was a terrible idea, but I'm actually enjoying it. Harkens back to the old EQ days when people had to actually socialize and get out to sell their wares.

I never played EQ. But I have never enjoyed a trade spam economy. Not on any game. They are a complete turn off for me and something I will not deal with. I would rather do something else with my time.

Ri_Dariit

This one doesn't understand how men and mer need the urge to have a price tag? Ri'Dariit wants to trade, he calls once for what good he's willing to part, requesting reply of suggested offer. If offer is better than vendor, other mer has trade. Simple, yes? Maximized profit, perhaps not. Once player cares about playing game, not care about coin, one is truly happy!

nerrollus

Jeremy wrote: »

I never played EQ. But I have never enjoyed a trade spam economy. Not on any game. They are a complete turn off for me and something I will not deal with. I would rather do something else with my time.

Totally understandable, certainly not something everyone likes.

I'm just one of those people that are totally burned out with the reskinned WoW games and enjoying the differences.

qwertyburnsb16_ESO

Economies do not fail due to the presence of an AH. They fail because eventually, in crafting players get to make everything that every other player makes across their own toons. Prices for items eventually get lower and lower until there are hardly any takers for stuff except for the lazy few.

If they concentrated on allowing players to have a specialism in something then their might be an economy. Demand for rare items drives capitalism. It always has.

The 5 Guild system doesn't work well. There isn't even a decent search tool to find the items you want. Guilds should only be for social interaction only in a faction based system. The Guild store should be scrapped and replaced with a conventional AH sooner rather than later.

Ilmm

I think the game would do very well with a faction-wide AH. Keep the guild stores, keep the trade spam, add an AH. Everyone wins.

Alurria

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Why is a AH a must? I seem to be selling the items I list in my guilds. Its these statements that 'it must be done or this game will die' that bother me. Just because it is done that way in other MMO's. The a few pages back someone dismissed my idea for a bazar without explanation. Other than to say no force kick. Well the point being is having the player present and not getting rich while they are off to work or school.

Have you ever been to a farmers market? Most of the time the person who farms is present to sell their wares. Seriously, a bazar could work with phasing, it holds you accountable, it brings people together and if you think to set up and let run auto well hey you should be subject to theft.

Something for the thieves guild to strive for...'there are other ways besides a AH, where yes there are groups who control prices. We all know it. Just like there are people controlling the price of a vamp bite or werewolf bite. Lets be honest here about the problems a global AH has. It's too convenient.

It's a must if you want to create a vibrant economy between players. No one is saying the game must have an auction house to simply function. So I think you are misunderstanding what is being said.

I feel like you are patting me on the head here You are not giving me the why? Because if the answer is that is how other games do things, honestly we wouldn't be out of the stone age in RL.


Other games have tried the bazar idea. It doesn't work well and becomes tedious. And convenience is very important when it comes to a player-generated economy.


Please give me an example of a game that has tried this and failed? What other games were they large MMO's. Seriously in RL there are farmers markets everywhere in almost every country and guess what they work


If you make the tools too cumbersome or give the player too many hoops to jump through - they will just say forget it and get by without it. Which is what a lot of people are doing on this game currently.

So its the convenience again, you are plopping a concept of automation in a world where we ride horses. I am not talking about immersion either. You need to be accountable while participating in the game and having your items sell while you are not in game is like playing on auto play. The very definition of a Auction means the person or agent is present to do the bidding.

Tell me why it wont work and don't just say because other games tried it.

Jeremy

nerrollus wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I never played EQ. But I have never enjoyed a trade spam economy. Not on any game. They are a complete turn off for me and something I will not deal with. I would rather do something else with my time.

Totally understandable, certainly not something everyone likes.

I'm just one of those people that are totally burned out with the reskinned WoW games and enjoying the differences.

Why associate WoW with an auction house though?

Most games have auction houses. That isn't something I would uniquely attach to WoW.

I too am enjoying the differences Elder Scrolls offers than the typical Wow clone. But to me that has more to do with it's old-school format and emphasis on exploration/questing and complex character building options.... rather repetitive daily grinds and mindless button mashing gameplay.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Why is a AH a must? I seem to be selling the items I list in my guilds. Its these statements that 'it must be done or this game will die' that bother me. Just because it is done that way in other MMO's. The a few pages back someone dismissed my idea for a bazar without explanation. Other than to say no force kick. Well the point being is having the player present and not getting rich while they are off to work or school.

Have you ever been to a farmers market? Most of the time the person who farms is present to sell their wares. Seriously, a bazar could work with phasing, it holds you accountable, it brings people together and if you think to set up and let run auto well hey you should be subject to theft.

Something for the thieves guild to strive for...'there are other ways besides a AH, where yes there are groups who control prices. We all know it. Just like there are people controlling the price of a vamp bite or werewolf bite. Lets be honest here about the problems a global AH has. It's too convenient.

It's a must if you want to create a vibrant economy between players. No one is saying the game must have an auction house to simply function. So I think you are misunderstanding what is being said.

I feel like you are patting me on the head here You are not giving me the why? Because if the answer is that is how other games do things, honestly we wouldn't be out of the stone age in RL.


Other games have tried the bazar idea. It doesn't work well and becomes tedious. And convenience is very important when it comes to a player-generated economy.


Please give me an example of a game that has tried this and failed? What other games were they large MMO's. Seriously in RL there are farmers markets everywhere in almost every country and guess what they work


If you make the tools too cumbersome or give the player too many hoops to jump through - they will just say forget it and get by without it. Which is what a lot of people are doing on this game currently.

So its the convenience again, you are plopping a concept of automation in a world where we ride horses. I am not talking about immersion either. You need to be accountable while participating in the game and having your items sell while you are not in game is like playing on auto play. The very definition of a Auction means the person or agent is present to do the bidding.

Tell me why it wont work and don't just say because other games tried it.

Final Fantasy 14 tried it and it failed.

It amounted to hundreds of different shops players would have to endlessly scan through and it ended up just being more trouble than its worth.

Not many people enjoy role-playing as a merchant. Most want to role-play as their actual class, like a Paladin/Templar or a Ninja/Nightblade.

So when much of a person's game time is spent on just trying to trade for something it ends up being a turn off for many players (myself included). I don't particularly like shopping in real life either. I just want to get in there, get what I want, then get back to doing what I enjoy.

Jeremy

Ilmm wrote: »

I think the game would do very well with a faction-wide AH. Keep the guild stores, keep the trade spam, add an AH. Everyone wins.

Faction-wide AH would be good I agree.

Alurria

hmmmm one game, a totally different game than this one. So one game failed, would you say EQ was a successful game? I mean really, they didn't have a AH. Was EQ a success? In other words its all about you and your convenience. Where would we be if people quit trying to refine an idea or concept?

So because one game failed at it 'we must have an auction house' there is no talking or discussing with people who are narrow of thought. I am happy with the current set up and would love to see improvements to included holding people accountable in game. No off line selling. My opinion. See now my thought is narrowed too.

Morthur

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Alurria

Ok Morthur, but perhaps the uncomfortable seat is only uncomfortable to you. Maybe its comfortable for someone else who is different framed. You see its all a matter of perception and opinion. Your not explaining why a different concept will not work. In fact basis, you are using opinion as fact.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

hmmmm one game, a totally different game than this one. So one game failed, would you say EQ was a successful game? I mean really, they didn't have a AH. Was EQ a success? In other words its all about you and your convenience. Where would we be if people quit trying to refine an idea or concept?

So because one game failed at it 'we must have an auction house' there is no talking or discussing with people who are narrow of thought. I am happy with the current set up and would love to see improvements to included holding people accountable in game. No off line selling. My opinion. See now my thought is narrowed too.

You asked me for an example so I gave you one. I was just doing what you asked. I have no idea why that makes me supposedly narrow of thought...

Most games understand the importance of making the economy open to the public and give players convenient tools to make use of it. So there aren't many other games out there I can give you as examples.

I never played Ever Quest. But I was under the impression that game had an auction house too. But either way - most successful MMORPGs have a public market. And there is a reason for that.

Alurria

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

hmmmm one game, a totally different game than this one. So one game failed, would you say EQ was a successful game? I mean really, they didn't have a AH. Was EQ a success? In other words its all about you and your convenience. Where would we be if people quit trying to refine an idea or concept?

So because one game failed at it 'we must have an auction house' there is no talking or discussing with people who are narrow of thought. I am happy with the current set up and would love to see improvements to included holding people accountable in game. No off line selling. My opinion. See now my thought is narrowed too.

You asked me for an example so I gave you one. I was just doing what you asked. I have no idea why that makes me supposedly narrow of thought...

Most games understand the importance of making the economy open to the public and give players convenient tools to make use of it. So there aren't many other games out there I can give you as examples.

I never played Ever Quest. But I was under the impression that game had an auction house too. But either way - most successful MMORPGs have a public market. And there is a reason for that.

It had one much later in the game until that time there was the 'tunnel' I met some awesome people there. I games much earlier than EQ people gathered together to sell goods and services. I also met some wonderful people. Who I got together with and had coffee in real life. I never met one person whom I sold or purchased using a AH.

Be somewhat open minded, improvements are great and I am sure there will be. But to dismiss a concept because it's not a clone of other games is short sighted and narrow minded. I read your example and it was a fact for YOU but not for everyone that is why we have choices.

Morthur

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Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

hmmmm one game, a totally different game than this one. So one game failed, would you say EQ was a successful game? I mean really, they didn't have a AH. Was EQ a success? In other words its all about you and your convenience. Where would we be if people quit trying to refine an idea or concept?

So because one game failed at it 'we must have an auction house' there is no talking or discussing with people who are narrow of thought. I am happy with the current set up and would love to see improvements to included holding people accountable in game. No off line selling. My opinion. See now my thought is narrowed too.

You asked me for an example so I gave you one. I was just doing what you asked. I have no idea why that makes me supposedly narrow of thought...

Most games understand the importance of making the economy open to the public and give players convenient tools to make use of it. So there aren't many other games out there I can give you as examples.

I never played Ever Quest. But I was under the impression that game had an auction house too. But either way - most successful MMORPGs have a public market. And there is a reason for that.

It had one much later in the game until that time there was the 'tunnel' I met some awesome people there. I games much earlier than EQ people gathered together to sell goods and services. I also met some wonderful people. Who I got together with and had coffee in real life. I never met one person whom I sold or purchased using a AH.

Be somewhat open minded, improvements are great and I am sure there will be. But to dismiss a concept because it's not a clone of other games is short sighted and narrow minded. I read your example and it was a fact for YOU but not for everyone that is why we have choices.

Again, putting in a public market would not make Elder Scrolls a clone of other games. That's like saying Elder Scrolls is a clone of WoW because it has skill trees. It's silly.

And I was open-minded. I tried the current system. And it sucks.

Being open-minded does mean I have to like something just because it's different.

And my example was indeed a fact. Go read up on the history of Final Fantasy 14 if you don't believe me. And from the sound of it, even your beloved Ever Quest came to their senses about this

You can also make friends in other ways besides trade spam. A game does not need a cumbersome economy for people to talk to one another.

Alurria

Okay Morthur, lets agree to disagree. I'm up for a change rather than the old stale systems used for the past 15 years how but you? I gave my suggestion. Do you have one? Other than the old style AH?

The advantage of guild is that not just a few people can control the pricing, where we all know that a few at the top of the food chain control prices on a regular AH. It makes it convenient for the gold farmer/mat farmers to sell in a regular AH and control pricing and knowing that I don't support gold sellers. That is one reason why I like the guild stores. The other is if I like the guild I will sell cheaper because I want the guild to flourish. That is called loyalty to the prosperity of the guild.

Morthur

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