Auction house is a must!

Alurria

I'm sorry you are tired of discussing it, I guess I feel more passionately about new concepts. Hopefully improvements will be made, but I think you are wrong about the developers not caring and honestly you owe them a apology for assuming that. Have a great day!

audabon2013

AH is sorely needed. in reality it is the vocal minority that thinks its good without one. guild stores are a tedious, closed system that does nothing to help prices since there is nothing to gauge prices on in a worldwide sense.

also the limited scope of guild stores does nothing for the immersion/interconnection argument. if there is no resto staff with sharpening in the store you are left with spamming guild or zone to see if anyone has the trait to craft you a copy. this is not immersion. its not socializing. its spam. don't sugar coat it. don't rationalize it. its not like you ask once, get your item, and make a lifelong friend.

the current system is too dependent on some key factors:

1. store- is someone actually going to post the garbage item in there that you need because its not a junk white item to you?? typically not.
2. zone- now you spam zone to find what you want or to sell something that is a hot item but guildies don't need. now youre just a spammer, gratz.
3. population- who is both online, and hasn't turned off zonechat like so many people have done do to spam. if no one is there to hear you, your spam falls on deaf ears.

AH is needed because people can post things and reach a broader audience regardless of who is on at that exact time. prices always normalize themselves in game-world economies so leave the doomsday speeches out of this discussion. guildstores are worse in a sense because there is no way to know if they are asking a true market price without spamming zone for a pricecheck. Yah! more spam!

Khandi

Tera tried it (if anyone besides myself remembers all the merchant 'bots') so did Aion, you could pull up a chair and hawk your wares.

So no, it is NOT just one game. A lot of people don't even remember them because they were a big fat bowl of fail.

Alurria

Tera and Aion didn't just fail because of that, and they are still running btw. I gave very specific not just a pull up your chair anywhere. I wasn't even thinking of those two games. Their failure as games <did they really fail since they are still running> was not just with economy.

My comparison was EQ.

Morthur

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Jeremy

Khandi wrote: »

Tera tried it (if anyone besides myself remembers all the merchant 'bots') so did Aion, you could pull up a chair and hawk your wares.

So no, it is NOT just one game. A lot of people don't even remember them because they were a big fat bowl of fail.

I never played Tera. I did play Aion as soon as it hit the United States and it had an auction house. So if they tried an alternative method it must have been before it came to North America. So that's why I didn't mention that one.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tera and Aion didn't just fail because of that, and they are still running btw. I gave very specific not just a pull up your chair anywhere. I wasn't even thinking of those two games. Their failure as games <did they really fail since they are still running> was not just with economy.

My comparison was EQ.

And EQ is a great comparison like I said. Because even it realized the error of its ways and put in an auction house

Alurria

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tera and Aion didn't just fail because of that, and they are still running btw. I gave very specific not just a pull up your chair anywhere. I wasn't even thinking of those two games. Their failure as games <did they really fail since they are still running> was not just with economy.

My comparison was EQ.

And EQ is a great comparison like I said. Because even it realized the of its ways and put in an auction house

It wasn't a error at that time Jeremy, it was a new concept, just like this one. BTW I was off beta testing Darksun online ( it think )when EQ came out and I started playing it 30 days after launch. AH came much later...

Khandi

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tera and Aion didn't just fail because of that, and they are still running btw. I gave very specific not just a pull up your chair anywhere. I wasn't even thinking of those two games. Their failure as games <did they really fail since they are still running> was not just with economy.

My comparison was EQ.

I never said they failed! Sheesh. You jumped on Jeremy because he offered one example of bazar-style marketing. I offered you 2 more.

I still play both so thanks for the update on them still running LOL.

Try not to be so defensive

KariTR

Khandi wrote: »

Tera tried it (if anyone besides myself remembers all the merchant 'bots') so did Aion, you could pull up a chair and hawk your wares.

So no, it is NOT just one game. A lot of people don't even remember them because they were a big fat bowl of fail.

No game fails for lack of an AH. Lineage and Lineage 2 between them had 50% of the world's global MMO playerbase. They were the most successful MMO title until WoW came along. They didn't have an AH.

Khandi

Jeremy wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Tera tried it (if anyone besides myself remembers all the merchant 'bots') so did Aion, you could pull up a chair and hawk your wares.

So no, it is NOT just one game. A lot of people don't even remember them because they were a big fat bowl of fail.

I never played Tera. I did play Aion as soon as it hit the United States and it had an auction house. So if they tried an alternative method it must have been before it came to North America. So that's why I didn't mention that one.

Yeah they did and that was my point No one does it anymore (maybe it has been disabled??) because it was a awful way to sell items.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tera and Aion didn't just fail because of that, and they are still running btw. I gave very specific not just a pull up your chair anywhere. I wasn't even thinking of those two games. Their failure as games <did they really fail since they are still running> was not just with economy.

My comparison was EQ.

And EQ is a great comparison like I said. Because even it realized the error of its ways and put in an auction house

It wasn't a error at that time Jeremy, it was a new concept, just like this one.

My point was they improved on the system they had by adding a more public and open market that everyone could freely participate in. And that's exactly what needs to happen here with this game.

Trade spam economies are nothing new. So I'm going to assume you are talking about the Guild Stores. That is somewhat novel, I'll give them that. But if their intent was to base the entire economy around them that was a huge mistake and I hope they recognize it now.

Alurria

I did not jump on him, I pointed out his examples are not what I was talking about. Its your failure to understand my post. Now I am being defensive, however your opinion is just still a opinion and not a must have. It is you who are trying to tell me your opinion trumps mine when in fact no one has that right. So now you attack me because I won't agree with you. I presented a idea not a complaint. I understand you disagree but don't hide behind a false assumption that I am somehow being disrespectful to you. Because in fact I disagree with you and think you are wrong as is my right. AH is not a must.

leewells

Dumbledalf wrote: »

Please please please give us an auction house. the constant spamming of green and blue text items in zone chat is really annoying. If not an auction house the. At least make a trade channel that can be switched on or off.
Not sure where to post this but there is no general discussion threads.

Thanks.

1) There is already an auction house -- in fact there are many upon many auction houses in this game -- they're called guilds and every guild has one.

2) Keeping the auctioning between guilds and allowing players to be a member of up to 5 guilds was a genius idea -- it keeps the economy straight by keeping valuable items at their correct prices without players having to worry about an entire megaserver's competition. This also allows ESO to self-moderate -- my guild for instance will not allow any person into the guild that seems to be one of those "professional farmers" that ruin most other mmo's economies.

In short, the auction system is outstanding and should stay exactly the way it is.

Jeremy

Khandi wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Tera tried it (if anyone besides myself remembers all the merchant 'bots') so did Aion, you could pull up a chair and hawk your wares.

So no, it is NOT just one game. A lot of people don't even remember them because they were a big fat bowl of fail.

I never played Tera. I did play Aion as soon as it hit the United States and it had an auction house. So if they tried an alternative method it must have been before it came to North America. So that's why I didn't mention that one.

Yeah they did and that was my point No one does it anymore (maybe it has been disabled??) because it was a awful way to sell items.

I see. I never knew that about Aion so learn something new everyday.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

I did not jump on him, I pointed out his examples are not what I was talking about. .

To defend my defender: you did call me narrow-minded

Morthur

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Alurria

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

I did not jump on him, I pointed out his examples are not what I was talking about. .

To defend my defender: you did call me narrow-minded

Well if I did I apologize, and I am sure I meant haveing a narrow view on a different concept is not conducive to fostering dialog or expanding on new concepts such as a 5 guild auction. In other words I don't think you are giving it a proper chance.

Drachenfier

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

hmmmm one game, a totally different game than this one. So one game failed, would you say EQ was a successful game? I mean really, they didn't have a AH. Was EQ a success? In other words its all about you and your convenience. Where would we be if people quit trying to refine an idea or concept?

So because one game failed at it 'we must have an auction house' there is no talking or discussing with people who are narrow of thought. I am happy with the current set up and would love to see improvements to included holding people accountable in game. No off line selling. My opinion. See now my thought is narrowed too.

Even Everquest eventually added one.

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

I did not jump on him, I pointed out his examples are not what I was talking about. .

To defend my defender: you did call me narrow-minded

Well if I did I apologize, and I am sure I meant haveing a narrow view on a different concept is not conducive to fostering dialog or expanding on new concepts such as a 5 guild auction. In other words I don't think you are giving it a proper chance.

It's np ^^

I've been trying to use the current system for several weeks now so I think that's long enough for me to have fair opinion about it.

DeLindsay

Here lies one of the major problems game developers have when trying to create a new MMO. Everyone wants something "different" from all the past MMO's, they want Devs who listen to their issues, they want gorgeous graphics and in depth game play. And then a game comes out that IS different from all the other MMO's and within days/weeks of launch it's a non-stop *** fest that the devs must be crazy for NOT putting in some feature that every single other MMO has. Seriously folks get over yourselves about the lack of AH. Guilds stores are fine and workd great if you're in the right Guild. Also Paul Sage said there are tweaks to Guilds coming but he wouldn't say what.

Now for the "real" story of likely why we don't have an in game AH. ESO is one gigantic server with MILLIONS of players on it. You have ZERO comprehension for just how bad an AH would lag the server out. Even in Eve Online, which is also one large server, the Market I.E. "AH", is spread out over multiple regions. I can't even imagine how bad it would be trying to just look up Maple, there would probably be 30,000 listings of just that one single item. Lose the bitchfest and learn to deal with ESO being different, or go play one of the dozens of MMO's that are exactly the same as the others so you can have your all important AH.

Alurria

YES they did but it was a new concept then!!!! Perhaps I should point out once again AH was a NEW idea. What is wrong with changing how things are done?

Jeremy

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

YES they did but it was a new concept then!!!! Perhaps I should point out once again AH was a NEW idea. What is wrong with changing how things are done?

Nothing as long as it's an improvement over the old way things are done. But these Guild Stores are a step backwards not forwards.

Edda

There is another problem with the lack of an auction house. While high level (veteran) economy will be able to limp along, low level (alt&newbie) economy will wither and die out. Because over time as these established trade guilds membership matures they will pretty much only deal with highest level gear. The greatest influx of new players is now. In a few months it will be impossible to pool together 500 new players to start their own trade guilds because all the established ones are too elite.

People keep saying that AHs help gold spammers like it's some universal recognized truth. But in any game I have played they don't seem to be helped by it more than other players. Sure, it will be easier for them to sell their stuff, so will it for everyone else. By that logic we should shut the entire game down because it sure is helpful for gold spammers to have an MMO with a bunch of dupes they can scam CC info out of. Fight gold spammers in a way that doesn't cripple game play. Track all transactions, or whatever.

Allyah

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

[...]And as I added in my above post, if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.

Vibrant economies enhance game play. It doesn't alter it for the worse like you seem to think.

The game economy works fine without selling anything to other players. If people are waiting until level 50 to craft, it is no wonder they are finding crafting difficult. There's a reason mats level up with each area. Why do you need rarer materials to level up your crafting? The answer is "You don't."

I never said you needed rarer materials to level up your crafting. So you are challenging with me over something I never wrote.

Let me post it again what I actually wrote for you:

if anything encourages players to advance through this game quicker it's the sorry state of this game's economy. Because most people don't even bother fully utilizing the game's crafting systems until they reach level 50 because rarer materials are so difficult to successfully buy.

In other words, most people don't even bother crafting green or blue items for themselves while they are leveling up. They do this because they have to rely almost solely on their own efforts in this regard. The economy being in such a state of utter crap they can't reliably buy the materials they need to help them out.

This encourages people to hoard all of their materials and not fully-utilize their crafting until they reach level 50.

Hopefully that explains better what I was saying

The game economy works fine without buying/selling anything to other characters .

Just read what you are saying here and then ask yourself this: how is an economy working fine if no buying/selling with other people is happening?

Scavenging everything yourself is not an example of an economy working fine.

So I don't understand what your point is other than to say you can get by on this game without having to trade with others. And while that is true, it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your point seems to be we need an AH because the economy doesn't work. My point is that we don't because it does. The system isn't broken and you want it fixed. Here's why it isn't broken:

Establishing what the economy consists of:
You can buy and sell from vendors. That's part of the economy. When mobs drop loot, they are part of the economy. When NPC's give you loot as rewards, that's part of the economy. When you craft something to sell, that is part of the economy. When you buy bag/bank space for mass amounts of gold, that is part of the economy.

I've never seen an AH do anything but drive prices up and up and up. .

Jeremy wrote: »

Yes that is essentially my point. The economy on this game doesn't work so that's why we need a public market.

And when I refer to the economy I am talking about the buying and selling between players. Not buying bag bag/bank space or getting rewards from quests.

You just admitted that you either don't pay attention to all the factors that drive an economy or you don't think these other factors are important. They are.

Jeremy wrote: »

A larger more competitive market would drive prices downward, not up and up. Just use your common sense and ask yourself why it is everyone tries to find a Guild Store nearer to max capacity? The reason for this is generally the larger the market the better. More supply. Greater demand.

If someone is looking for a guild store for near max capacity it is for convenience. Nothing more or less.

Jeremy wrote: »

The only way prices could go up and up and up like you fear is if an organized group seized control of how an item is obtained to avoid competition in the market place. And that's a concern not really valid to this game, since there are so many different ways to obtain items in demand.

In other words: a group of bots are not going to be able to control the production of Dwarf Oil to jack up prices. But just for the sake of argument: even if such a thing was possible - this could be done in the Guild Stores as well. So I don't really see how this is a concern unique to an Auction House anyway.

If this is the case, why do we need an auction house? Convenience, correct?

Jeremy wrote: »

And you guys and gals who are against a public auction house need to have a meeting or something to figure out which it is. Because I keep hearing opposite arguments about this.

One day they are bad because they cause prices to drop to nothing. Then the next day they are bad because they cause prices to go up and up. Counter-arguments make a lot more sense when they don't contradict itself.

It really could go either way if an AH is implemented. And neither case is good. I only mentioned it going up because that is what I have noticed as a general trend in other MMOs. (Although there have been certain items that became worthless rapidly, as well.)

EDIT: Quotes were messed up.

Rholinx

morgueanna wrote: »

I can only play an hour or two every other day due to school commitments. None of the trading guilds will let me join because I play so irregularly. My guild is too small to have a store.

People like me are left out of trading/selling altogether unless we want to spend the tiny amount of time we do have spamming chat and hoping someone won't just leave our COD in their mail for 30 days.

This game is not casual friendly in the least when it comes to crafting and making money.

I agree the casual player is left out almost entirely of the economy

DeLindsay

@morgueanna and any other casual players, you can message me in game (same name, AD) the Guild I'm in has a pretty decent store with good prices and we're always willing to take on more players, especially casuals. Some of us are serious crafters and will help you with that also so you aren't left out.

Thunder

I want an auction house, so I totally get wanting one. Yet ESO doesn't have one, and like with a lot of things that ESO has done differently, I try to focus benefits rather than the limitations. As such, I've reached the conclusion that I don't need an auction house.

Buying and selling of commodities is certainly not a need in ESO. When you quest you collect a bunch of junk, more than half the junk your character will have no use for and can just vendor for gold. The rest you can grind up to support your crafting skill, which when added to even a very small amount of material from gathering has provided me with more than enough materials to keep my crafting current with my character's needs.

You don't need to research every single trait on every single item you can craft. You know what you want to use, and if the time ever comes you want to use something else you can always research it then. If you're dreaming of one day making a fortune as a master crafter who can "craft any armor, in any style, with any trait", I think you'll be disappointed when you find out everyone else can already craft the armor they want, in the style they want, with the trait they want.

Since players really don't need to trade in commodities, and your general uncommon items aren't really all that uncommon, what's left to trade? Rare items. Which are rare enough that /zone chat and guild stores can effectively market the product. Furthermore, rare items can be traded through 3rd party online auctions, something I don't think many have considered, but is a rather obvious solution.

There's really not that much players can't get for themselves just by putting a little effort into it, except for maybe vamp bites, but you couldn't sell those on an AH anyway.

Seraseth

In games like RL I want to do my shopping as fast as possible to get it over with and get back to the good stuff. These guild stores are like doing your grocery shopping at a flea market. Not only can you not guarantee fish for dinner, you can't even be sure entire food groups won't be missing.

For me staying with a game is a balance, amount of time spent doing things I enjoy vs amount of time spent doing things I dislike. When that ratio gets too high on the negative side, it doesn't matter how much I like the game itself, it's just not worth it.

It's like saying you can have x amount of hours doing something you love, but in return you're gonna get beaten with this stick for x amount of hours.

I love playing this game, I love the questing and the stories, exploring to find something cool, but the lack of an AH and the bank size issues is a stick. (And the two are related, since if you could nearly guarantee that this mat will be available, you don't need to hoard it)

I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy sitting in town spamming for hours to sell or buy stuff. Good for them. I'd rather take the proverbial cheese grater to my eyeballs.

Adding in a faction AH isn't going to prevent them from standing on a street corner hawking their wares and 'being social and meeting people'. But I will be able to run in, dump my stuff, and get back out to the fun part, being social and meeting people killing daedra at that anchor, or world bosses.

And for those worried about the state of the economy, add a check box people can click off to sell to guild only at the AH. Then you can stay inside your small safe bubble economy no matter what the rest of the game is doing.

Allyah

Seraseth wrote: »

In games like RL I want to do my shopping as fast as possible to get it over with and get back to the good stuff. These guild stores are like doing your grocery shopping at a flea market. Not only can you not guarantee fish for dinner, you can't even be sure entire food groups won't be missing.

For me staying with a game is a balance, amount of time spent doing things I enjoy vs amount of time spent doing things I dislike. When that ratio gets too high on the negative side, it doesn't matter how much I like the game itself, it's just not worth it.

It's like saying you can have x amount of hours doing something you love, but in return you're gonna get beaten with this stick for x amount of hours.

I love playing this game, I love the questing and the stories, exploring to find something cool, but the lack of an AH and the bank size issues is a stick. (And the two are related, since if you could nearly guarantee that this mat will be available, you don't need to hoard it)

I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy sitting in town spamming for hours to sell or buy stuff. Good for them. I'd rather take the proverbial cheese grater to my eyeballs.

Adding in a faction AH isn't going to prevent them from standing on a street corner hawking their wares and 'being social and meeting people'. But I will be able to run in, dump my stuff, and get back out to the fun part, being social and meeting people killing daedra at that anchor, or world bosses.

"I like everything but this one thing. It better change or I won't play anymore."?Find a new game or stop complaining about systems that are already in place that many people already enjoy.

Seraseth wrote: »

And for those worried about the state of the economy, add a check box people can click off to sell to guild only at the AH. Then you can stay inside your small safe bubble economy no matter what the rest of the game is doing.

Economies don't work that way. Think N.Korea.