How can we fix Oakensoul without making it obsolete?

TechMaybeHic · June 2022

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.

Attempted Fix:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Heroism are inactive."

This ring would still give the utility of an entire backbar without giving the utility of an entire team in PVP. I left Major Protection because taking less damage slows down combat and genuinely helps new players compete without giving them the trophy before the contest began. This approach also leaves PVE untouched so there is no conflict to be had there.

Essentially, this change would keep the ring viable for those who actually need it, but wouldn't push the floor into the ceiling.

I would leave courage and take major force in stead, but I think I can guess your main class

kypranb14_ESO · June 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

(1 item) While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets and gain Major Berserk, Major Courage, Major Brutality, Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Major Force, Major Protection, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Major Heroism.

Attempted Fix:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Heroism are inactive."

This ring would still give the utility of an entire backbar without giving the utility of an entire team in PVP. I left Major Protection because taking less damage slows down combat and genuinely helps new players compete without giving them the trophy before the contest began. This approach also leaves PVE untouched so there is no conflict to be had there.

Essentially, this change would keep the ring viable for those who actually need it, but wouldn't push the floor into the ceiling.

I would leave courage and take major force in stead, but I think I can guess your main class

If you guessed Nightblade, you'd be correct.

fizzylu · June 2022

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Attempted Fix:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Heroism are inactive."

This ring would still give the utility of an entire backbar without giving the utility of an entire team in PVP. I left Major Protection because taking less damage slows down combat and genuinely helps new players compete without giving them the trophy before the contest began. This approach also leaves PVE untouched so there is no conflict to be had there.

Essentially, this change would keep the ring viable for those who actually need it, but wouldn't push the floor into the ceiling.

I agree with some of what you said. As the ring is right now, it basically turns a player into a one man army. It gives way too much for too little. BUT I will say that I do think it has solved a problem with ESO combat that I've had for a while. Over the years, ESO has started to feel more like a resource management game and a competition of "who can last the longest" rather than a fighting game. Maintaining buffs and the magicka/stamina to put into said buffs along with your normal rotation then reapplying the buffs mid fight again, and again, and again.... and again until you're no longer able to do so. This ring totally negates that and just lets you, well, fight the good fight haha it's really kind of refreshing. BUT this just makes me wonder how they thought up such a broken item and let it go live before considering something as simple as just making some class active abilities that give major resolve and major sorcery/brutality into class passive abilities instead. Those are really the only major buffs everyone (except maybe healers) are always going to run in their builds. Everything else the ring gives is arguably overkill. Obviously they could of came up with some for the classes that currently do not have access to one of these buffs and reworked the current abilities/morphs a bit to go along with this idea. After all, they are game developers and that's part of their job. To me that would have made way more sense as a solution to accessibility problems than an obviously problematic mythic item.... AND it would also fix the in my opinion not so great current state of how combat works because maybe it's just me, but I enjoy simply going toe to toe with my enemy a lot more than applying buffs every 30 seconds or so in some fights that can last quite some time. Especially in PVP, since Greymoor players have insane amounts of sustain and I've seen 1v1s last for more than five minutes. Gods help us.

kypranb14_ESO · July 2022

[/quote] @TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

MindOfTheSwarm · July 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited [/quote]

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

kypranb14_ESO · July 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

The only issue I've encountered when playing with Major Courage is that it allows you to "bulk up" much more while still allowing for that delicious damage we all crave. I think you both may be correct though, removing Major Force, Major Heroism, and Major Berserk while under the effects of Battlespirit may be the best way to go.

Hotdog_23 · July 2022

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Still waiting on someone to explain how its ruining PVP rather than parroting the same tired baseless accusations.

Just because you do not understand how PvP works doesn't mean they're "baseless"

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

If they remove Heroism or any other major buffs, it isn't worth slotting something that limits you to one bar. Period. Only way it is currently worth it is because it provides major buffs to people that have little to no access to such buffs. If they change everything to minor, then it better have no bar restrictions to make it worth the slot. Or else it is an instant trash.

If you traded Major Heroism for Major Slayer it would be trash?

That might not be a bad thing for solo PvE play for sure.

Slayer only works in Dungeons and Trials and does nothing for the rest of ESO content. Replacing Major Slayer with Major Heroism would be a big nerf overall in PVE. Believe that would go against the overall intent of the ring which I believe is an accessibility tool for some.

Stay safe

Where do you need Herosim, Berserk, and Force? In overland content? Where things can die in 3 seconds? The slayer buffs seem to be the best comprise so far. They will help struggling players in harder content, which is Dungeons and Trails. You do not need Herosim, Force, and Berserk for overland.

While I agree general overland content is easy. Don’t forget not everyone is on the same skill level as you and can easily breeze thru content. Plus, I am sure some people who are unable to complete world bosses on their own then the ring would be a great boon for them to be able to complete them alone.

I see the ring is an accessibility tool for those that need it. Thus, why I would like to see it disabled in PVP content because it can be OP and easily abused inside those areas but unchanged for PVE content.

Stay safe

FangOfTheTwoMoons · July 2022

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Still waiting on someone to explain how its ruining PVP rather than parroting the same tired baseless accusations.

Just because you do not understand how PvP works doesn't mean they're "baseless"

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

If they remove Heroism or any other major buffs, it isn't worth slotting something that limits you to one bar. Period. Only way it is currently worth it is because it provides major buffs to people that have little to no access to such buffs. If they change everything to minor, then it better have no bar restrictions to make it worth the slot. Or else it is an instant trash.

If you traded Major Heroism for Major Slayer it would be trash?

That might not be a bad thing for solo PvE play for sure.

Slayer only works in Dungeons and Trials and does nothing for the rest of ESO content. Replacing Major Slayer with Major Heroism would be a big nerf overall in PVE. Believe that would go against the overall intent of the ring which I believe is an accessibility tool for some.

Stay safe

Where do you need Herosim, Berserk, and Force? In overland content? Where things can die in 3 seconds? The slayer buffs seem to be the best comprise so far. They will help struggling players in harder content, which is Dungeons and Trails. You do not need Herosim, Force, and Berserk for overland.

While I agree general overland content is easy. Don’t forget not everyone is on the same skill level as you and can easily breeze thru content. Plus, I am sure some people who are unable to complete world bosses on their own then the ring would be a great boon for them to be able to complete them alone.

I see the ring is an accessibility tool for those that need it. Thus, why I would like to see it disabled in PVP content because it can be OP and easily abused inside those areas but unchanged for PVE content.

Stay safe

Being an accessibility tool is fine. I'd never argue against it, but keeping those buff for the sake of overland and world bosses shouldn't be a factor I feel like.

The only way a person is struggling with overland mobs is if they aren't firing any skills, and that's beyond a physical disability.

World bosses aren't damage sponges that need crazy buffs to kill either. The ring would still provide defensive capabilities like protection and increased healing from the damage buffs. All a person would lose out on is extra damage. Damage that's not neccessary. You do not need raid buffs to kill a world boss. Using your skills and healing is all a person will need. They won't be able to kill a world boss as fast as a 2 bar build, but they'll still be able to do it.

I'd personally like to see it disabled in PvP all together and they could just leave it as is. It wouldn't be ruining anyone else's experience in PvE.

merpins · July 2022

I don't think it needs a nerf. It does what it needs to do for PVE, and if it's a problem in PVP ZoS should balance it separately in PVP so it doesn't hurt the PVE side that it's meant for.

Imo, Heroism isn't really the selling point of the ring. It feels tacked on, and is the main point of contention. Removing it would do very little to the people that actually use the ring outside of PVP, and make PVPer's stop using the ring, at least to the extent it's being used. It doesn't really need to be removed in PVE, as even with Heroism, the best of the best with the ring are still 20-30% behind top end. Imo it's just overdramatized. It can help you if you have trouble playing the game, and if you're good at the game already, it can let you play a casual build. You won't be top end, and you might get corrosive armor builds with the heroism, but again, that just tells me Herosim is what's making the ring op in PVP.

Faulgor · July 2022

Major Force, Major Berserk, and Major Courage could probably all be rolled into a new buff, e.g. Major Hunter, that buffs damage against PvE enemies. All those buffs are doing more or less the same thing anyway, increasing your damage, the only downside would be losing the bonus from Major Courage on heals.
Otherwise this feels like the most elegant change to me, with the ring focusing on its intended use as a PvE-helper while keeping its appeal to more niche ulti-gen builds.

Would the ring still be an issue in PvP then, even if it did retain Major Heroism?

Lailaamell · July 2022

I feel like game would be better balanced if thet disabled mythics in pvp

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

Wow. Think I broke the quote string. See if this is better

People don't complain about Veil of Blades because it's not very strong or particularly useful in this case. Ultimate's are supposed to be strong and limited by cost. I'd hate to go the other way and make more mediocre to compensate them being up more often. As is, many a barely add more than each class burst mechanics beyond just going along with them.

jaws343 · July 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

Wow. Think I broke the quote string. See if this is better

People don't complain about Veil of Blades because it's not very strong or particularly useful in this case. Ultimate's are supposed to be strong and limited by cost. I'd hate to go the other way and make more mediocre to compensate them being up more often. As is, many a barely add more than each class burst mechanics beyond just going sling with them.

The cost limitation is definitely a pretty big factor too.

With the ring, you can build for a setup that has 100% Thrive in Chaos uptime. Thrive in Chaos on it's own is pretty weak, and not too effective. But, having that at 100% uptime, on 4-6 players in a BG, means you also have 24-36% more damage, an active dot on players, 50% health return from damage done, and an AOE ult that pairs nicely with plagebreak. And you lose nothing in terms of damage or defense, when building for full ult gen with the ring. I am running a sorc build that gets Shooting Star up every 14 seconds, a few alterations in skills/weapons and I could have permanent Thrive in Chaos.

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

Wow. Think I broke the quote string. See if this is better

People don't complain about Veil of Blades because it's not very strong or particularly useful in this case. Ultimate's are supposed to be strong and limited by cost. I'd hate to go the other way and make more mediocre to compensate them being up more often. As is, many a barely add more than each class burst mechanics beyond just going sling with them.

The cost limitation is definitely a pretty big factor too.

With the ring, you can build for a setup that has 100% Thrive in Chaos uptime. Thrive in Chaos on it's own is pretty weak, and not too effective. But, having that at 100% uptime, on 4-6 players in a BG, means you also have 24-36% more damage, an active dot on players, 50% health return from damage done, and an AOE ult that pairs nicely with plagebreak. And you lose nothing in terms of damage or defense, when building for full ult gen with the ring. I am running a sorc build that gets Shooting Star up every 14 seconds, a few alterations in skills/weapons and I could have permanent Thrive in Chaos.

Hear about something new every day. And I'm sure there is a lot people don't share.

NordSwordnBoard · July 2022

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

If they remove Heroism or any other major buffs, it isn't worth slotting something that limits you to one bar. Period. Only way it is currently worth it is because it provides major buffs to people that have little to no access to such buffs. If they change everything to minor, then it better have no bar restrictions to make it worth the slot. Or else it is an instant trash.

If you traded Major Heroism for Major Slayer it would be trash?

That might not be a bad thing for solo PvE play for sure.

Slayer only works in Dungeons and Trials and does nothing for the rest of ESO content. Replacing Major Slayer with Major Heroism would be a big nerf overall in PVE. Believe that would go against the overall intent of the ring which I believe is an accessibility tool for some.

Stay safe

So, a nerf to the ring only in overland content? Slayer works for solo arenas AFAIK.

I'd really love to hear the case arguing major Heroism being removed would cripple overland builds. I can't picture it.

Duke_Falcon · July 2022

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Faulgor · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

Wow. Think I broke the quote string. See if this is better

People don't complain about Veil of Blades because it's not very strong or particularly useful in this case. Ultimate's are supposed to be strong and limited by cost. I'd hate to go the other way and make more mediocre to compensate them being up more often. As is, many a barely add more than each class burst mechanics beyond just going sling with them.

The cost limitation is definitely a pretty big factor too.

With the ring, you can build for a setup that has 100% Thrive in Chaos uptime. Thrive in Chaos on it's own is pretty weak, and not too effective. But, having that at 100% uptime, on 4-6 players in a BG, means you also have 24-36% more damage, an active dot on players, 50% health return from damage done, and an AOE ult that pairs nicely with plagebreak. And you lose nothing in terms of damage or defense, when building for full ult gen with the ring. I am running a sorc build that gets Shooting Star up every 14 seconds, a few alterations in skills/weapons and I could have permanent Thrive in Chaos.

There's also this inconsistency where transformation ultimates don't let you regenerate ultimate during their uptime, but non-transformation ones with a considerable duration like Corrosive Armor and Thrive in Chaos do. I don't really see what's so different about Bone Goliath that it doesn't allow ulti gen, it should be one or the other for all ultimates.

jaws343 · July 2022

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Brrrofski · July 2022

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

It is not difficult to make viable solo build with it

I've made 4 already.

Not only are they viable, but they're better than other things I've tried.

Only thing it isn't so far is mag sorc. Which tbh, sucks with whatever I've tried.

jaws343 · July 2022

Faulgor wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

@TechMaybeHic

When I originally posted, I actually meant to remove Major Force... Just realizing now that I missed a buff. I would even leave Heroism over Force. I don't play a ganker Nightblade, I'd even be willing to share my build. Ha!

My Nightblade Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=426502

I wouldn't let Major Courage sit there because it enables way too much power that is otherwise inaccessible in no-proc campaigns.

So my corrected fix would be:

"While under the effects of Battlespirit, Major Berserk, Major Courage, and Major Force are inactive."

I like major courage as it feels like it makes up for missing a back bar boost to heals and damage like DOTs or glyph that are missing.

Major heroism causes a lot of problems with how ults are meant to be limited

Some Ult’s get way more value. Ice Comet, Corrosive Armor. I don’t anyone would complain if Veil of Blades was being used often.

Wow. Think I broke the quote string. See if this is better

People don't complain about Veil of Blades because it's not very strong or particularly useful in this case. Ultimate's are supposed to be strong and limited by cost. I'd hate to go the other way and make more mediocre to compensate them being up more often. As is, many a barely add more than each class burst mechanics beyond just going sling with them.

The cost limitation is definitely a pretty big factor too.

With the ring, you can build for a setup that has 100% Thrive in Chaos uptime. Thrive in Chaos on it's own is pretty weak, and not too effective. But, having that at 100% uptime, on 4-6 players in a BG, means you also have 24-36% more damage, an active dot on players, 50% health return from damage done, and an AOE ult that pairs nicely with plagebreak. And you lose nothing in terms of damage or defense, when building for full ult gen with the ring. I am running a sorc build that gets Shooting Star up every 14 seconds, a few alterations in skills/weapons and I could have permanent Thrive in Chaos.

There's also this inconsistency where transformation ultimates don't let you regenerate ultimate during their uptime, but non-transformation ones with a considerable duration like Corrosive Armor and Thrive in Chaos do. I don't really see what's so different about Bone Goliath that it doesn't allow ulti gen, it should be one or the other for all ultimates.

I kind of agree, either shut it down or turn it on. But, if they shut it down, they would have to reduce ult cost across the board to account for it.

And if they turned Ult gen on for everything, oh man, Sorc Overload would be wild.

Duke_Falcon · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Cyrodil groups are 12 man groups, it can be done easily in Cyrodil. I think it can be done with sets, skills and potions in a 4 man group even, just think about it, but it would really really have to be optimized. Again same solution for each person in the group drop one buff off of the mythic.

Duke_Falcon · July 2022

Brrrofski wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

It is not difficult to make viable solo build with it

I've made 4 already.

Not only are they viable, but they're better than other things I've tried.

Only thing it isn't so far is mag sorc. Which tbh, sucks with whatever I've tried.

I've made a viable solo build with it too, and fought other viable solo builds running it, its not a problem. Like I said its only really overpowered in non optimized groups. So if there needs to be a fix, drop one buff off the mythic for each person in the group.

jaws343 · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Following up on this, I've posted this before, but it really shows how the "only get 5 skills" argument isn't really a punishment:

My 2 bar sorc: Harness Mag, Hardened Ward, Dark Conversion, Boundless, Radiating Regen, Curse, Frags, Streak, Fury, Crushing Shock, Shooting Star, Restro Ult

My 1 bar sorc: Matriarch, Crushing Shock, Fury, Curse, Streak, Shooting Star

So, the ring kind of forces me to drop shields, but shields have been wildly underwhelming, so not too bad. Plus, with the right sets, the Matriarch heal is crazy, and you can just as easily go 20-0 using matriarch in a fight as you can using shields.

The ring gives armor buff, so no need for Boundless. Plus, with streak, no real need for expedition. Matriarch gives healing, so no need for radiating. Dark Conversion isn't necessary because the ring give minor recoveries, and I don't have do spend resources keeping my buffs up. This means I now save stam for dodge and break free rather than spending it to get mag back.

So I am still left with my primary burst combo, that hits way harder (due to a ton of buffs I literally never had access to with the 2 bar build), an Ult that is ready quicker, a strong heal that I was already flexing in place of shields to begin with. And I lose, a defensive Ult that I only used situationally anyways. And I also don't have to worry about bar swap lag.

There are practically no downsides to this ring when you actually build right.

jaws343 · July 2022

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Cyrodil groups are 12 man groups, it can be done easily in Cyrodil. I think it can be done with sets, skills and potions in a 4 man group even, just think about it, but it would really really have to be optimized. Again same solution for each person in the group drop one buff off of the mythic.

So, the solution to competing with 1 ring, that takes up 1 gear slot, is to run a 12 man, fully optimized group.

Got it, you are saying the ring is as powerful as a fully optimized 12 man, and somehow that isn't strong.

Duke_Falcon · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Following up on this, I've posted this before, but it really shows how the "only get 5 skills" argument isn't really a punishment:

My 2 bar sorc: Harness Mag, Hardened Ward, Dark Conversion, Boundless, Radiating Regen, Curse, Frags, Streak, Fury, Crushing Shock, Shooting Star, Restro Ult

My 1 bar sorc: Matriarch, Crushing Shock, Fury, Curse, Streak, Shooting Star

So, the ring kind of forces me to drop shields, but shields have been wildly underwhelming, so not too bad. Plus, with the right sets, the Matriarch heal is crazy, and you can just as easily go 20-0 using matriarch in a fight as you can using shields.

The ring gives armor buff, so no need for Boundless. Plus, with streak, no real need for expedition. Matriarch gives healing, so no need for radiating. Dark Conversion isn't necessary because the ring give minor recoveries, and I don't have do spend resources keeping my buffs up. This means I now save stam for dodge and break free rather than spending it to get mag back.

So I am still left with my primary burst combo, that hits way harder (due to a ton of buffs I literally never had access to with the 2 bar build), an Ult that is ready quicker, a strong heal that I was already flexing in place of shields to begin with. And I lose, a defensive Ult that I only used situationally anyways. And I also don't have to worry about bar swap lag.

There are practically no downsides to this ring when you actually build right.

Matriarch alone is not enough to keep you alive you need a Hot running or a Shield to act as a Hot.

jaws343 · July 2022

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Following up on this, I've posted this before, but it really shows how the "only get 5 skills" argument isn't really a punishment:

My 2 bar sorc: Harness Mag, Hardened Ward, Dark Conversion, Boundless, Radiating Regen, Curse, Frags, Streak, Fury, Crushing Shock, Shooting Star, Restro Ult

My 1 bar sorc: Matriarch, Crushing Shock, Fury, Curse, Streak, Shooting Star

So, the ring kind of forces me to drop shields, but shields have been wildly underwhelming, so not too bad. Plus, with the right sets, the Matriarch heal is crazy, and you can just as easily go 20-0 using matriarch in a fight as you can using shields.

The ring gives armor buff, so no need for Boundless. Plus, with streak, no real need for expedition. Matriarch gives healing, so no need for radiating. Dark Conversion isn't necessary because the ring give minor recoveries, and I don't have do spend resources keeping my buffs up. This means I now save stam for dodge and break free rather than spending it to get mag back.

So I am still left with my primary burst combo, that hits way harder (due to a ton of buffs I literally never had access to with the 2 bar build), an Ult that is ready quicker, a strong heal that I was already flexing in place of shields to begin with. And I lose, a defensive Ult that I only used situationally anyways. And I also don't have to worry about bar swap lag.

There are practically no downsides to this ring when you actually build right.

Matriarch alone is not enough to keep you alive you need a Hot running or a Shield to act as a Hot.

Entirely false. Matriarch is more than enough. Like, the build I listed is literally a build I am running with success. Also, not even running the build fully optimized, as I went full ult gen. So I get a meteor every 14 seconds and do more damage than my two bar build, with the same level of survivability. If I ditch the ult gen aspect, the build only gets stronger.

Duke_Falcon · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Following up on this, I've posted this before, but it really shows how the "only get 5 skills" argument isn't really a punishment:

My 2 bar sorc: Harness Mag, Hardened Ward, Dark Conversion, Boundless, Radiating Regen, Curse, Frags, Streak, Fury, Crushing Shock, Shooting Star, Restro Ult

My 1 bar sorc: Matriarch, Crushing Shock, Fury, Curse, Streak, Shooting Star

So, the ring kind of forces me to drop shields, but shields have been wildly underwhelming, so not too bad. Plus, with the right sets, the Matriarch heal is crazy, and you can just as easily go 20-0 using matriarch in a fight as you can using shields.

The ring gives armor buff, so no need for Boundless. Plus, with streak, no real need for expedition. Matriarch gives healing, so no need for radiating. Dark Conversion isn't necessary because the ring give minor recoveries, and I don't have do spend resources keeping my buffs up. This means I now save stam for dodge and break free rather than spending it to get mag back.

So I am still left with my primary burst combo, that hits way harder (due to a ton of buffs I literally never had access to with the 2 bar build), an Ult that is ready quicker, a strong heal that I was already flexing in place of shields to begin with. And I lose, a defensive Ult that I only used situationally anyways. And I also don't have to worry about bar swap lag.

There are practically no downsides to this ring when you actually build right.

Matriarch alone is not enough to keep you alive you need a Hot running or a Shield to act as a Hot.

Entirely false. Matriarch is more than enough. Like, the build I listed is literally a build I am running with success.

As a solo player, unless your bursting one guy and running away, or relying on cross heals from people around you, you can't stay in the fight with that setup, its dps heavy. I've killed 2 Sorcs yesterday in 1v1's trying it.

Duke_Falcon · July 2022

Best solution I can think of for the Mythic if there needs to be a fix is to drop one buff off the Mythic for each person in a group. Let each person coming to the group bring something of value to the group.

jaws343 · July 2022

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Duke_Falcon wrote: »

The Mythic is fine. You only get 5 skills to use. Unless your running in a group it is very difficult to make a viable build to solo with. If your running in a group, get good, because a good group can get all those buffs and still have access to 10 skills on their bars. I'm guessing the people complaining are the ones running in groups that are not optimized.

Here's a fix for each person in the group lose one buff.

Please show me, in a group of 4, how everyone in the group can get every buff on this ring, with 100% uptime, in a BG. And then also, with all of these buffs, run 2 separate 5 piece sets that are not just sets to provide these buffs that add even more damage to their builds.

Truthfully, a good two bar PVP build has around 3-4 damage skills, 1-2 heals, and 4-5 buff skills. You see how, once eliminating the need to run 4-5 buff skills, you also eliminate the need to run a back bar. And then the ring boosts your damage even more on top of that.

Following up on this, I've posted this before, but it really shows how the "only get 5 skills" argument isn't really a punishment:

My 2 bar sorc: Harness Mag, Hardened Ward, Dark Conversion, Boundless, Radiating Regen, Curse, Frags, Streak, Fury, Crushing Shock, Shooting Star, Restro Ult

My 1 bar sorc: Matriarch, Crushing Shock, Fury, Curse, Streak, Shooting Star

So, the ring kind of forces me to drop shields, but shields have been wildly underwhelming, so not too bad. Plus, with the right sets, the Matriarch heal is crazy, and you can just as easily go 20-0 using matriarch in a fight as you can using shields.

The ring gives armor buff, so no need for Boundless. Plus, with streak, no real need for expedition. Matriarch gives healing, so no need for radiating. Dark Conversion isn't necessary because the ring give minor recoveries, and I don't have do spend resources keeping my buffs up. This means I now save stam for dodge and break free rather than spending it to get mag back.

So I am still left with my primary burst combo, that hits way harder (due to a ton of buffs I literally never had access to with the 2 bar build), an Ult that is ready quicker, a strong heal that I was already flexing in place of shields to begin with. And I lose, a defensive Ult that I only used situationally anyways. And I also don't have to worry about bar swap lag.

There are practically no downsides to this ring when you actually build right.

Matriarch alone is not enough to keep you alive you need a Hot running or a Shield to act as a Hot.

Entirely false. Matriarch is more than enough. Like, the build I listed is literally a build I am running with success.

As a solo player, unless your bursting one guy and running away, or relying on cross heals from people around you, you can't stay in the fight with that setup, its dps heavy. I've killed 2 Sorcs yesterday in 1v1's trying it.

Even if you were right that it isn't viable, a very, very simple change would be to remove fury and run vigor. Then probably run Powerful Assault and Rallying Cry, and still be stronger than any two bar setup.